Should I Go D.O?

[Stressd-premed]

Hi Guys! I am a sophomore in college and I plan on going to medical school and I am wondering whether I should go D.O. I have watched a few videos about what it means to be a doctor of osteopathic medicine and the philosophies really do resonate with my beliefs. My only concerns with sticking with D.O is that I will be looked at as less than an M.D or that I would be restricted in specialties. I really would love to hear from you guys on your experiences as D.O physicians and medical students.

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[Goro]

Hi Guys! I am a sophomore in college and I plan on going to medical school and I am wondering whether I should go D.O. I have watched a few videos about what it means to be a doctor of osteopathic medicine and the philosophies really do resonate with my beliefs. My only concerns with sticking with D.O is that I will be looked at as less than an M.D or that I would be restricted in specialties. I really would love to hear from you guys on your experiences as D.O physicians and medical students.

RE: the bolded: Only in the minds of pre-meds.

You will have doors closed to you.

You do have to learn OMM

Your clinical rotations will be spotty in more places.

The odds of you going into Primary Care are about 50-50.

Whether or not you decide to go DO will ultimately be based upon your GPA and MCAT score.

 

[Stressd-premed]

Only in the minds of pre-meds.
You will have doors closed to you.
You do have to learn OMM

Whether or not you decide to go DO will ultimately be based upon your GPA and MCAT score.

I really love the idea of OMM but some people have told me there is no scientific basis is that true?

Sent from my moto g(6) using SDN mobile

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

Hi Guys! I am a sophomore in college and I plan on going to medical school and I am wondering whether I should go D.O. I have watched a few videos about what it means to be a doctor of osteopathic medicine and the philosophies really do resonate with my beliefs. My only concerns with sticking with D.O is that I will be looked at as less than an M.D or that I would be restricted in specialties. I really would love to hear from you guys on your experiences as D.O physicians and medical students.

The majority of medical students that go DO base their decisions on their MCAT and GPA, it's more so because they have to as opposed to because they want to. The medicine that they practice is almost exactly the same. The one thing that is undeniable is that there are more opportunities available to M.D. as opposed to D.O. but at the end of the day they are both doctors and have both been amongst the top in terms of academic achievement and ability.

 

[Goro]

I really love the idea of OMM but some people have told me there is no scientific basis is that true?

Sent from my moto g(6) using SDN mobile

Let's say that there are a lot of unproven claims with OMM. They're not helped by the near religious fervor that some of its proponents have.

There are definitely are some techniques that are helpful, but even at the worst, we know that the placebo effect is real, and OMM seems to me to be really good at triggering the placebo effect. Just keep an open mind and see if you can learn something useful.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

there is no scientific basis is that true?

Yes.

 

[Dr. Basketball]

Eh. To me a doctor is a doctor, no matter what letters follow your name.

As far as being looked at as less than M.D. Yeah, maybe. But the question is by whom? Patients? Maybe an actual physician can comment on how many patients a day ask him or her if he or she is an MD or DO. I asked a DO that had been practicing for about 10 years, he said he had that question maybe 3 times in his entire career. And it wasn´t even MD or DO, it was where he attended medical school.

By your colleagues? If I were a physician, I just can´t see myself losing sleep over what opinions my MD colleagues may or may not have about me. Any sleep loss would be over my patients, and that´s it. I guess you can let it bother you if you choose to. But people are always trying to appear better than their neighbor. It´s human nature in my opinion. Right now, the conversation is MD and DO, but among residencies, the conversation will be ¨oh I´m smarter because I matched in Dermatology and you matched in Peds,¨(Nothing wrong with peds by the way). Among surgeons, the conversation will be Neurosurgery being above General Surgery. The nonsense hierarchies will never end.

As far as OMT being a hoax. Eh, maybe. I have had it done on me and I have found it to be very beneficial. But who knows, maybe it was one giant placebo effect. Either way, I still walked away feeling better, and isn´t that the point? For the sake of argument, let´s say that it is fake. So? You still receive the same clinical training as an MD. You learn the exact same basic sciences. I would have to say go and get some exposure, then make the distinction.

As far as ¨doors being closed.¨ Eh, maybe. I know what DOs usually match into, but is it because that´s their only choice or because they are fine with that? I don´t know. I know that the majority of DOs go primary care, but there are also plenty that match into other specialties. I just don´t know if I believe that if a DO kills the COMLEX and USMLE exams he or she will not have a decent shot at the residency of his or her choice. But I could be wrong, maybe I´ll get lucky and an actual residency director can correct me.

I guess the biggest question is, do you really care? The law doesn´t, nor do compensation rates, because DOs and MDs have the exact same practice rights

But hey, if you are looking to go into something like neurosurgery, statistically speaking you would have a better shot as a US MD, and if that's what you want that is great! Good luck with your decision!

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

Whether or not you decide to go DO will ultimately be based upon your GPA and MCAT score.

Preaching the truth!

 

[Ho0v-man]

Always always always go MD if you can. If you actually want to learn omm as an MD, you can. No one will restrict you on that. MD education is superior from a clinical standpoint. It’s just a fact. Because of this, DOs are second class citizens in the match and it’s totally justified because we have less standardized education. Is it overblown on SDN? Yeah. Is it still a disadvantage? Yeah.

 

[_Rod_of_Asclepius_]

Always always always go MD if you can. If you actually want to learn omm as an MD, you can. No one will restrict you on that. MD education is superior from a clinical standpoint. It’s just a fact. Because of this, DOs are second class citizens in the match and it’s totally justified because we have less standardized education. Is it overblown on SDN? Yeah. Is it still a disadvantage? Yeah.

Sad, but true...

Best thing to do is just be aware of it and prepare for it as early as possible if you go DO, which is exactly what I'm doing.

 

[ortnakas]

If only there were dozens of DO vs MD threads hashing this out already.

 

[eberge3]

Focus on your grades & MCAT - apply to both - go through the process - do your research - see which one you like BOOM

 

[eberge3]

RE: the bolded: Only in the minds of pre-meds.

You will have doors closed to you.

Whether or not you decide to go DO will ultimately be based upon your GPA and MCAT score.

I really believe that the stigma is over blown on sites like these. Especially when DO's are getting into solid presidency programs & fellowship programs that had never accepted DO's in the past

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I really believe that the stigma is over blown on sites like these. Especially when DO's are getting into solid presidency programs & fellowship programs that had never accepted DO's in the past

Yes and no. It is much more nuanced than SDN likes to make it, but the stigma is very real and there are significantly more hurdles you have to jump through to have the same match power as an MD, and in some fields you never will even if you are a perfect applicant. No one should ever willingly choose this path if they have the other one open to them. Everyone on this site that jumps in and says that's what they did are all medical students, and haven't had to go through the match yet.

 

[Dr. Basketball]

If only there were dozens of DO vs MD threads hashing this out already.

Yes and no. It is much more nuanced than SDN likes to make it, but the stigma is very real and there are significantly more hurdles you have to jump through to have the same match power as an MD, and in some fields you never will even if you are a perfect applicant. No one should ever willingly choose this path if they have the other one open to them. Everyone on this site that jumps in and says that's what they did are all medical students, and haven't had to go through the match yet.

You could be very right. But you speak in very broad terms. This is not a condescending question in the slightest, but have you gone through the match yet?

I only ask because I think your insight, though anecdotal, can be very valuable as far as stigmas that you have personally seen and I think it would benefit OP to know about them if he or she were to choose DO.

But if you are just a medical student, you would have to put yourself in the category of ¨jumping in¨ without any inside knowledge on how all residencies look at DO vs. MD applicants with all due respect.

 

[Goro]

Yes and no. It is much more nuanced than SDN likes to make it, but the stigma is very real and there are significantly more hurdles you have to jump through to have the same match power as an MD, and in some fields you never will even if you are a perfect applicant. No one should ever willingly choose this path if they have the other one open to them. Everyone on this site that jumps in and says that's what they did are all medical students, and haven't had to go through the match yet.

To follow up, there are residency programs that openly state that they do not consider DOs. And in the Program Director's survey, you will see what proportion of PDs NEVER interview or rank DOs.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/NRMP-2018-Program-Director-Survey-for-WWW.pdf

These people tend to be in the more competitive specialties, like the surgical subspecialties.

The stigma is not due to the Cult of Still anymore, but to the poor clinical training at many DO schools, and probably the poor language of some MSPEs as well...it some DO preceptors may have no clue as to what an ACGME PD wants in a letter.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You could be very right. But you speak in very broad terms. This is not a condescending question in the slightest, but have you gone through the match yet?

I only ask because I think your insight, though anecdotal, can be very valuable as far as stigmas that you have personally seen and I think it would benefit OP to know about them if he or she were to choose DO.

But if you are just a medical student, you would have to put yourself in the category of ¨jumping in¨ without any inside knowledge on how all residencies look at DO vs. MD applicants with all due respect.

Nope. But I don't need to be saying what I'm saying. Ask any 4th year applying right now. You can try and use my credentials as an argument against me (logical fallacy) but you will see that I am right once you get farther along in this process.

The simple truth is that the opportunities in terms of specialty, program prestige, program location, etc, are very different between your average MD student and average DO. Ignore this fact and attend a DO school over an MD one at your own peril.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

Nope. But I don't need to be saying what I'm saying. Ask any 4th year applying right now. You can try and use my credentials as an argument against me (logical fallacy) but you will see that I am right once you get farther along in this process.

The simple truth is that the opportunities in terms of specialty, program prestige, program location, etc, are very different between your average MD student and average DO. Ignore this fact and attend a DO school over an MD one at your own peril.

Very true, many more hurdles for DO. but at the end of the day a doctor is a doctor which is a doctor. Primary care can be very satisfying and if you aren't okay with that, then don't go to medical school because the majority of DO's will go into family medicine while a handful will specialize.

 

[Dr. Basketball]

To follow up, there are residency programs that openly state that they do not consider DOs. And in the Program Director's survey, you will see what proportion of PDs NEVER interview or rank DOs.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/NRMP-2018-Program-Director-Survey-for-WWW.pdf

Thank you, this is very useful.

 

[Dr. Basketball]

Nope. But I don't need to be saying what I'm saying. Ask any 4th year applying right now. You can try and use my credentials as an argument against me (logical fallacy) but you will see that I am right once you get farther along in this process.

The simple truth is that the opportunities in terms of specialty, program prestige, program location, etc, are very different between your average MD student and average DO. Ignore this fact and attend a DO school over an MD one at your own peril.

"Everyone on this site that jumps in and says that's what they did are all medical students, and haven't had to go through the match yet." Isn't that what you did with everyone else's credentials on here?

Maybe I misunderstood your comment. If I did, I apologize. But I do agree with some points you have made.

Anyway, my point was that I think it would be great if a DO going through the match could give his or her experience.

But at the end of day, it is OP's choice. I agree that there are hurdles(thanks for that link Goro). Is it overblown? Not sure, I'll come back in a couple years when I get to the match and relate my experience. Should OP probably shoot for MD just to be safe? I think so. Should OP feel disappointed if he or she goes DO? In my opinion, NOT AT ALL! Wear that white coat with pride!

Either way, best of luck to you OP!

AnatomyGrey12, no hard feelings!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

"Everyone on this site that jumps in and says that's what they did are all medical students, and haven't had to go through the match yet." Isn't that what you did with everyone else's credentials on here?

I can see how it might look like those are similar. The difference is that those posters are talking about how happy they are with their decision to go DO over MD, when they haven't actually gone through with that decision yet. They are usually pre-clinical students, often only a few months into 1st year. How do they know how happy they are to have made that decision when it's consequences haven't even occurred yet? My statements, are simply based on reality as stated by PDs on this site, 4th years from all over the place, PD surveys, charting outcomes for DOs, and even residency rosters. I don't need to have gone through the match to have say that DOs face significant hurdles in the match, which indirectly affects future job prospects FYI. The truth is that someone's career could look very different depending on where they choose to go to school.

 

[Dr. Basketball]

I can see how it might look like those are similar. The difference is that those posters are talking about how happy they are with their decision to go DO over MD, when they haven't actually gone through with that decision yet. They are usually pre-clinical students, often only a few months into 1st year. How do they know how happy they are to have made that decision when it's consequences haven't even occurred yet? My statements, are simply based on reality as stated by PDs on this site, 4th years from all over the place, PD surveys, charting outcomes for DOs, and even residency rosters. I don't need to have gone through the match to have say that DOs face significant hurdles in the match, which indirectly affects future job prospects FYI. The truth is that someone's career could look very different depending on where they choose to go to school.

I see your point, and I think that is a very fair assessment of things.

I think "happy" is subjective. I could be happy going into internal medicine but maybe someone else would see it as settling and not fulfilling his or her full potential. I get that. I'll be the first one to say that yes, I am very comfortable going into primary care. Those are the docs I have shadowed and I like the clinic/outpatient feel, for now at least. Plus, I'm not the smartest guy either(NOT saying that primary care docs aren't smart, just that even if I wanted to go into neurosurgery I probably don't have the brains to do so). But yes, as I said, I agree that there are hurdles(assuming that person is looking for a competitive specialty), but not impossible by any means.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

But yes, as I said, I agree that their are hurdles(assuming that person is looking for a competitive specialty), but not impossible by any means.

That’s a myth: that only DOs wanting competitive specialties have the hurdles. In every single field, yes even primary care, a DO and an MD with the exact same application will get very different interviews. IM is a big example. An MD who breaks 210 on Step will be able to easily match a university program that a DO needs a 225+ to even interview at. Every field is like this, it isn’t just the competitive specialties. This comes into play even more so when you take location into account. An MD I’ll simply have a much higher probability of landing a program in their geographical region of choice than a DO. DOs have to apply more broadly as a whole.

It’s easy as a pre-med to say, “oh I just want PC and I’ll just be happy that I match at all.” When the reality is that 4 years down the road you will likely have different priorities, and there are lots of minor differences in residency programs that “just matching” isn’t necessarily a good outcome.

 

[Goro]

I can see how it might look like those are similar. The difference is that those posters are talking about how happy they are with their decision to go DO over MD, when they haven't actually gone through with that decision yet. They are usually pre-clinical students, often only a few months into 1st year. How do they know how happy they are to have made that decision when it's consequences haven't even occurred yet? My statements, are simply based on reality as stated by PDs on this site, 4th years from all over the place, PD surveys, charting outcomes for DOs, and even residency rosters. I don't need to have gone through the match to have say that DOs face significant hurdles in the match, which indirectly affects future job prospects FYI. The truth is that someone's career could look very different depending on where they choose to go to school.

Sorry for the pun, but to add some shades of grey to this, every year at graduation we ask our grads the following?
If you had the chance to do it all over again, what would you do?
~80-90% say they'd go DO again
~5-10% say they'd go MD
~ 5-10% say they'd do something else.

Note that at this point in their careers, there is no reason to lie, impress anyone, or self-delude.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Sorry for the pun, but to add some shades of grey to this, every year at graduation we ask our grads the following?
If you had the chance to do it all over again, what would you do?
~80-90% say they'd go DO again
~5-10% say they'd go MD
~ 5-10% say they'd do something else.

Note that at this point in their careers, there is no reason to lie, impress anyone, or self-delude.

The problem with reading those results the way you are is that the vast majority of your grads never had MD as an option in the first place. So not going DO meant not being a doctor. It's honestly more like they are saying that they would go DO again instead of not be a doctor. It isn't some ringing endorsement of DO over MD.

 

[Dr. Basketball]

That’s a myth: that only DOs wanting competitive specialties have the hurdles. In every single field, yes even primary care, a DO and an MD with the exact same application will get very different interviews. IM is a big example. An MD who breaks 210 on Step will be able to easily match a university program that a DO needs a 225+ to even interview at. Every field is like this, it isn’t just the competitive specialties. This comes into play even more so when you take location into account. An MD I’ll simply have a much higher probability of landing a program in their geographical region of choice than a DO. DOs have to apply more broadly as a whole.

It’s easy as a pre-med to say, “oh I just want PC and I’ll just be happy that I match at all.” When the reality is that 4 years down the road you will likely have different priorities, and there are lots of minor differences in residency programs that “just matching” isn’t necessarily a good outcome.

That’s a myth: that only DOs wanting competitive specialties have the hurdles. In every single field, yes even primary care, a DO and an MD with the exact same application will get very different interviews. IM is a big example. An MD who breaks 210 on Step will be able to easily match a university program that a DO needs a 225+ to even interview at. Every field is like this, it isn’t just the competitive specialties. This comes into play even more so when you take location into account. An MD I’ll simply have a much higher probability of landing a program in their geographical region of choice than a DO. DOs have to apply more broadly as a whole.

It’s easy as a pre-med to say, “oh I just want PC and I’ll just be happy that I match at all.” When the reality is that 4 years down the road you will likely have different priorities, and there are lots of minor differences in residency programs that “just matching” isn’t necessarily a good outcome.

False. The average matched US senior to internal medicine in 2018 was above a 220. Huge difference. Where are you getting your information? http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-Seniors.pdf

 

[Goro]

The problem with reading those results the way you are is that the vast majority of your grads never had MD as an option in the first place. So not going DO meant not being a doctor. It's honestly more like they are saying that they would go DO again instead of not be a doctor. It isn't some ringing endorsement of DO over MD.

I see your point, but you don't know the stats of my students...we do. And people can always do an SMP.

 

[Dr. Basketball]

The problem with reading those results the way you are is that the vast majority of your grads never had MD as an option in the first place. So not going DO meant not being a doctor. It's honestly more like they are saying that they would go DO again instead of not be a doctor. It isn't some ringing endorsement of DO over MD.

I could be wrong, but Goro may have been responding to your comment about not being happy later on. You have a bit of an ominous "doomed for all eternity" tone when you talk about the DO route. Maybe people are genuinely satisfied. Your theory is possible though, but it's tough to know.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I see your point, but you don't know the stats of my students...we do. And people can always do an SMP.

you yourself have said you know your students use DO as a back up. Sorry but forgive me if I don't believe that a significant amount of your students had MD as a legitimate option and turned it down to go DO.

I could be wrong, but Goro may have been responding to your comment about not being happy later on. You have a bit of an ominous "doomed for all eternity" tone when you talk about the DO route. Maybe people are genuinely satisfied. Your theory is possible though, but it's tough to know.

And did all those people polled literally turn down an MD acceptance to go DO? If not then the results don't matter. You guys are great at moving the goal posts, we are discussing people turning down MD to go DO. That was the specific population that we were discussing when I said that. No one has ever said that DO students aren't happy or are doomed for all eternity lol.

OP should do everything they can to go to an MD school. Going DO should always be a back up.

 

[Goro]

you yourself have said you know your students use DO as a back up. Sorry but forgive me if I don't believe that a significant amount of your students had MD as a legitimate option and turned it down to go DO.

And did all those people polled literally turn down an MD acceptance to go DO? If not then the results don't matter. You guys are great at moving the goal posts, we are discussing people turning down MD to go DO. That was the specific population that we were discussing when I said that. No one has ever said that DO students aren't happy or are doomed for all eternity lol.

OP should do everything they can to go to an MD school. Going DO should always be a back up.

There's a difference between having no chance at MD and being competitive for MD and DO, failing to get the former and ending going with the latter. And then there's the pool of turning down MD for Do, which is a sizable pool, thanks to our location west of the Missouri River. Not everybody int he western states wants to go to the east coast.

So back up from the literal sense of the admissions reality and look into the heart of what the students are saying. Despite all your cogent criticisms of the profession, you yourself get very defensive when someone attacks the profession. You have some regrets about the path Life threw at you, but you're still proud of where you're headed, and this is true of my students. That's all I'm saying.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You have some regrets about the path Life threw at you, but you're still proud of where you're headed, and this is true of my students. That's all I'm saying.

That's fair and I agree. The funny part is that I don't even have any regrets, unless you count being a dumb 18 year old. I love my school, and I have some opportunities here that are pretty unique to my school and I am pretty confident that I can get where I want to go if I put in the work because of those opportunities. My point in going through all of these criticisms is because pre-meds need to understand that while DO will still get them to the end goal, there are some serious compromises that affect most DO students. Someone in the shoes of OP as a sophomore in college should be doing everything they can to get into an MD school because it simply makes life easier, and keep DO in the back pocket as a 'just in case'. With everything going on with the merger it is a really poor decision right now to go to a DO school when you have the choice of MD. That's all I'm saying. Some people won't have that choice and DO is still a more viable option to medicine than the carib (although COCA is trying their hardest lol) and these people should go DO and make the most of it. I am definitely NOT saying that DO students aren't happy.

And you're right, I might have some pretty sharp criticisms but I will also be the first to jump in and defend it when the occasion requires.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

That's fair and I agree. The funny part is that I don't even have any regrets, unless you count being a dumb 18 year old. I love my school, and I have some opportunities here that are pretty unique to my school and I am pretty confident that I can get where I want to go if I put in the work because of those opportunities. My point in going through all of these criticisms is because pre-meds need to understand that while DO will still get them to the end goal, there are some serious compromises that affect most DO students. Someone in the shoes of OP as a sophomore in college should be doing everything they can to get into an MD school because it simply makes life easier, and keep DO in the back pocket as a 'just in case'. With everything going on with the merger it is a really poor decision right now to go to a DO school when you have the choice of MD. That's all I'm saying. Some people won't have that choice and DO is still a more viable option to medicine than the carib (although COCA is trying their hardest lol) and these people should go DO and make the most of it. I am definitely NOT saying that DO students aren't happy.

And you're right, I might have some pretty sharp criticisms but I will also be the first to jump in and defend it when the occasion requires.

I would completely agree that the majority of MD's have more opportunities than DO's, but what about the lowest MD schools like Meharry, Morehouse, Howard, Missisipi, Marshal, LSU??? These are the bottom rung of the MD's in the states. Do you think these schools provide students more opportunities than DO schools like CCOM, PCOM, KCU, DMU etc. Also what is your opinion on Caribbean MD, what provides more opportunities Caribbean MD or DO??

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Do you think these schools provide students more opportunities than DO schools like CCOM, PCOM, KCU, DMU etc.

Yes and it's not even close.

Also what is your opinion on Caribbean MD, what provides more opportunities Caribbean MD or DO??

I would choose another career before going to the carib.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

Yes and it's not even close.


I would choose another career before going to the carib.

 

[ortnakas]

You could be very right. But you speak in very broad terms. This is not a condescending question in the slightest, but have you gone through the match yet?

I only ask because I think your insight, though anecdotal, can be very valuable as far as stigmas that you have personally seen and I think it would benefit OP to know about them if he or she were to choose DO.

But if you are just a medical student, you would have to put yourself in the category of ¨jumping in¨ without any inside knowledge on how all residencies look at DO vs. MD applicants with all due respect.

I'm a resident.

And as it's December, fourth year students probably have pretty good anecdotes to offer.

I don't think the match is as dire for DOs as SDN likes to make it out to be, but no, we are absolutely not on equal footing with PDs as our MD brethren. Not in some big name cities like New York or Boston, and not in big name specialties like derm or ophtho

Edit: typo

 

[Dr. Basketball]

I'm a a resident.

And as it's December, fourth year students probably have pretty good anecdotes to offer.

I don't think the match is as dire for DOs as SDN likes to make it out to be, but no, we are absolutely not on equal footing with PDs as our MD brethren. Not in some big name cities like New York or Boston, and not in big name specialties like derm or ophtho.

Finally!

Thank you for your input. That is good to know.

 

[Blanky]

Finally!

Thank you for your input. That is good to know.

We all knew this. DO is fine if that is how the cards deal out for you. But be aware you are going to have to work harder for your end goal. We can all agree on that.

If DO schools strengthened their 3/4 year clinicals and started setting up residencies and reducing OMM/OMT slightly, then over a couple years they would be viewed closer to equals.

 

[Blanky]

The problem is instead of building strength in education most of these schools just increase their numbers/ build more schools...

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

We all knew this. DO is fine if that is how the cards deal out for you. But be aware you are going to have to work harder for your end goal. We can all agree on that.

If DO schools strengthened their 3/4 year clinicals and started setting up residencies and reducing OMM/OMT slightly, then over a couple years they would be viewed closer to equals.

We will see what the consequences are of the merger. If DO students become less competitive in the match, they will clearly have to make extreme changes to the curriculum and structure in order to solidify a future for DO students. IMO I don't see the merger as a benefit for DO's, but a benefit for MD's. It will allow the MD's to solidify the AOA specialty spots that were strictly for DO's, the DO's will be scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

The problem is instead of building strength in education most of these schools just increase their numbers/ build more schools...

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

exactly, PCOM-georgia... like wtf kind of name is that. and all the VCOMs spread around the south. Just build up the school that has brought you success and we can finally start having tiers and prestige added to DO schools just like MD have.

 

[Blanky]

In the long run you will see DO become closer and closer to MD. The question is how many DOs have to fight that stigma and for how long.

 

[eberge3]

An MD who breaks 210 on Step will be able to easily match a university program that a DO needs a 225+ to even interview at.

Im going to highly highly disagree with this statement. It is statements like these that are leading to the spread misinformation. In no world will an MD with a 210 match in a university program and in no world would he be chosen to interview over a DO with a 225. No program director is stupid enough to choose an applicant based on those letters and not on performance metrics. I may not know your health care experience but I can tell you first hand that if you ask physicians practicing they will agree on this.

All applicants have to do is simply look at DO programs match list. If what you said is true, explain to me how LECOM has matched PM&R to Hopkins, NW, Tufts top programs in the past 5 years. My program and many others match PLENTY of students in university programs in all specialties.

The stigma is real - lots of MD competitive specialty programs such as derm, ortho, neruo surg, etc take little to none DO's and there are a lot of top institutional MD internal medicine programs that take maybe 1-2 DOs but it is over blown on this site and you are part of the problem :/

 

[Dr. Basketball]

I'm a a resident.

And as it's December, fourth year students probably have pretty good anecdotes to offer.

I don't think the match is as dire for DOs as SDN likes to make it out to be, but no, we are absolutely not on equal footing with PDs as our MD brethren. Not in some big name cities like New York or Boston, and not in big name specialties like derm or ophtho.

We all knew this. DO is fine if that is how the cards deal out for you. But be aware you are going to have to work harder for your end goal. We can all agree on that.

If DO schools strengthened their 3/4 year clinicals and started setting up residencies and reducing OMM/OMT slightly, then over a couple years they would be viewed closer to equals.

Well to form a full opinion I also like hearing from people that have gone through the match, which is where the ¨finally!¨ came from.

But I agree with what you are saying. Bring on the hurdles!!

 

[eberge3]

Interestingly enough, 15-20 years ago when there were not as many DO schools and students getting matched into competitive specialties was easier for DO's because they had their own residency programs and competed with less fellow DO applicants and didnt have to compete against MD applicants.

 

[Dr. Basketball]

Interestingly enough, 15-20 years ago when there were not as many DO schools and students getting matched into competitive specialties was easier for DO's because they had their own residency programs and competed with less fellow DO applicants and didnt have to compete against MD applicants.

Great point. 2020 is going to be very interesting.

 

[Blanky]

Interestingly enough, 15-20 years ago when there were not as many DO schools and students getting matched into competitive specialties was easier for DO's because they had their own residency programs and competed with less fellow DO applicants and didnt have to compete against MD applicants.

Yes, but in the interest of longterm and making the degrees equal the merger will improve the DO vs MD issue... It just may take 5-20-50-100 years

 

[DO2015CA]

Well to form a full opinion I also like hearing from people that have gone through the match, which is where the ¨finally!¨ came from.

But I agree with what you are saying. Bring on the hurdles!!

4th year going through the match. Applying to an extremely DO friendly specialty and I can tell there is some form of DO selection bias. Still getting good interviews but just not at the places that my application otherwise would suggest. It is what it is. I am still getting great training programs in places I would like to go, but no I did not get love from boston (always gotta apply to harvard ) nor cali.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I would completely agree that the majority of MD's have more opportunities than DO's, but what about the lowest MD schools like Meharry, Morehouse, Howard, Missisipi, Marshal, LSU??? These are the bottom rung of the MD's in the states. Do you think these schools provide students more opportunities than DO schools like CCOM, PCOM, KCU, DMU etc.

Just to piggy back on to what anat grey was saying, and he’s absolutely right, those MD schools are absolutely better than going to any DO school. Match lists aren’t the greatest metrics by any means, but FFS the difference between the lowest tier MD and “highest tier” DO schools match lists are ridiculous. And it’s not just inferior students. The average mcat at those DO schools is higher than those MD schools. So on average this an example of similar or even higher performing students consistently being out matched bc of the letters after their names. It’s just an undeniable fact that we are second class citizens in the match and that DO school should absolutely be a last resort.

As far as opportunities, MD schools have home residencies in most fields that favor their own students. They can get first hand experience in fields they’re interested in and make connections in the field. DO schools have really complicated ways massage your butt. Gee, who would win?

 

[Jyggaswoop]

nobody cares about if ur a do or md where i work. of course, actual patients do not know if ur a do or md. as ive been scribing, only 1 patient knew what the difference was, and its because she liked OMM. being a do only matters in matching, and to some people who get hard ons from the letters MD (some friends i know).

in the end, the story is always the same: a do with avg + step, 230+, will match the fields that DOs match in if applying broadly. might not get top tier academic programs, but that is not necessary to be a competent physician that betters the lives of ppl around u. they'll match everything but urology, vasc, gen surg (50/50 here), derm, plastics, ortho, optho, rad-onc, IR, neurosurg.

the merger will only benefit DO's (competent ones that study hard to do well on step). a do with a 230 now if hes applying rads might forgoe acgme because hes not comp enough, and choose to match aoa, even though an acgme acredited one wants him as well, but he doesnt know that. so the merger will not force him to forgoe acgme match, and will now match the one he wanted. this situation i think happens a lot.

if u want any of the specialties mentioned above, then it is best just to forgo do, and apply md, and just view it as an extra year added to ur residency. i.e. if u wanna do derm, instead of residency being 3, its 4 for u.

 

[Jyggaswoop]

with all the addition of these schools, and carib schools, it seems like an easy way for poorer (aka less stats) students to basically pay their way to take the usmle. maybe one day, it can be like the mcat/sat. u pay to take it, and then apply for residencies. isnt this what happens in IMG anyways? who knows what quality of rotations IMG's have?