Should I go to this school or not?

[Summer2016]

Hello
I need some serious advice regarding pursuing a Psy.D at Sofia university in Palo Alto previously known as the institute of transpersonal psychology. This university is close to my home. When I interviewed I was told that i would have to find my own clinical sites to gain my hours & that this is a small program in terms of students. It is not have APA accreditation.
I took a year off and applied to grad programs I really didn't do do well on my GRE and so I didn't get into any state programs.
I do like the area of Palo Alto I work in a hospital already so I can pursue my clinical hours here.
I'd appreciate any responses, I understand that getting into a Psy.D program is competitive however this is my dream & i am afraid that Sofia university might be a diploma mill (it has that feel) at the same time if I can graduate pass my exams and become licensed in the state of California I'd be content.

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[PsyDr]

Run far far far away from anything transpersonal. It's a fringe area at best. While some may point out some thing to vaguely support it, when it comes time for internship that will be a huge ass problem. If you got sued or had a board complaint, trying to explain a non evidence based therapy would be not so good.

Run far far away from any program that doesn't have clinical placements. Many of the top ten programs in the USA have incredibly small cohorts, and obviously provide clinical placements. It's not an excuse.

If becoming a psychologist was as easy as taking some courses down the street in your free time, everyone would do it.

 

[WisNeuro]

I'd strongly recommend against this program. The program itself is not accredited, which will make it very difficult to get an internship and find employment, especially in an already saturated market. I'd consider alternatives (master's, MFT, SW). This program will just be a very expensive mistake.

 

[Justanothergrad]

As others have said, it is an unaccredited program that will produce substantial debt (Estimated total cost of tuition for the degree: $118,188.00 per their website excluding living expenses) and poor opportunities related to licensure/internship/etc etc. Don't walk, run away. Consider other routes as WisNeuro outlined or explore gap years to up your CV to be competitive for a reputable/funded program

 

[erg923]

When I interviewed I was told that i would have to find my own clinical sites to gain my hours

This would seem to be an abrogation of a training program's duty to its students, no?

"Hey...give us tens of thousands of dollars and we will provide some classes, but that pesky training and seeing patients part...well, you gotta take care of all that. Oh, and by the way, we aren't accredited, so you will be excluded from about 90% of predoc internships come match time. Cheers!"

I do like the area of Palo Alto I work in a hospital already so I can pursue my clinical hours here.

You don't know that. And practicum training requires breadth and depth of experience. Psychologist just don't get clinical training at one site.

 

[deleted343839]

When I interviewed I was told that i would have to find my own clinical sites to gain my hours & that this is a small program in terms of students. It is not have APA accreditation

Tuition, training model, and everything else aside, these are two serious red flags.

i am afraid that Sofia university might be a diploma mill (it has that feel)

Yeah, I think you're onto something. Don't do it. It's clear that you already know better. Don't let convenience overcome your better judgment.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Even some of the low tier super-expensive low match rate APA accredited professional schools would be better because at least then you would have a good chance at a career as a psychologist. I can't think of any reason to attend a school such as this.

 

[CheetahGirl]

I took a year off and applied to grad programs I really didn't do do well on my GRE and so I didn't get into any state programs.

I second all of the above. If you really want to go forward in this field, consider a masters, MFT, SW (as WisNeuro said), but also consider retaking your GREs and applying to outside of state/private university programs (hopefully, with funding). I'm guessing you probably didn't want to hear any of this. But, FWIW I got in my second time applying after strengthening my overall picture. And stated above, none of this comes easy...but one huge secondary gain to the commitment of strengthening your applications and being more competitive is the realization that this is (or is not) what you really want to do.

There are no shortcuts in good training, whether it be a PsyD or PhD...you'll come up short somewhere along the way if you try to take any. Plus, you want to have confidence in your training and your program. That confidence helps your research experience, externship placements, internship placements, postdoc placements, networking after graduation, and makes you a bit more sure-footed about taking the licensing exam IMO.

Good luck!

Edit: Also, note: None of us want to squash your dreams of a future career, but our opinions are coming from a place of experience knowing what you will face if you go through with a program that is not APA accredited with (what sounds like) a poor training model (sorry, not sorry, Sofia University).

 

[Doctor-S]

Hi Summer2016,

By my own admission, I am not familiar with Sofia. However, I am aware that California (as well as the rest of the USA) is teeming with graduate programs (including non-accredited schools and so-called expensive diploma mills) offering various "graduate degrees" in some field of psychology. In your case, you have indicated that you want to pass the EPPP and become a licensed clinical psychologist in California - so I will respond to this comment.

With the above in mind ...

Have you asked Sofia to provide any type of verifiable data and outcome information?

For instance:

1. In the past 1-3 years, how many individuals, who graduated with the same degree you wish to pursue (e.g., PsyD, Clinical Psychology) have "successfully passed the EPPP?"

2. How many of these individuals are "gainfully employed" as compensated clinical psychologists? What is their return on investment (ROI)? Are they supporting themselves financially as a psychologist?

3. In the past 1-3 years, how many individuals were offered proper "pre-doctoral internships" (that counted toward graduation, as well as a future license to practice clinical psychology)?

Anyway, you get the idea.

Without APA accreditation, internship opportunities may be severely limited (especially paid internships). Ditto for Fellowships. This often means that "you're on your own dime."

If you want to eventually earn an income as a licensed clinical psychologist, you need to pass the EPPP. Plus, you must comply with all of the requirements set forth by the California Board of Psychology. You must also complete all of the required supervised hours.

So ask yourself this IMPORTANT question: will I be able to accomplish all of these things if I earn a PsyD degree in Clinical Psychology from Sofia?

It sounds as if you're applying to Sofia because you suspect that Sofia might be your only choice at this time, due to low GRE scores, or whatever. If you're interested in becoming a licensed clinical psychologist to earn income to support yourself, you might want to re-consider your plans. For instance, you could boost your GPA (by more classwork that is approved to increase your GPA), work in a research lab, study for the GRE (to earn higher GRE scores), consider a reputable Post-Bac program (which may provide you with additional coursework, research work, and one-on-one guidance, possible master's degree, etc.).

Thank you.

 

[wandergirl]

I'll add to the chorus with a few additional items. Before taking on education, you must think about the economics of it. If you will be taking on debt, please please please run some calculations: e.g. with this site: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml For example, if you take on 118,000 of debt and plan to pay it back over 15 years, you would need to be able to pay $1000 per month, which would require a salary of 100,000 when you leave school. This is a big leap for a degree from a school that isn't even accredited. I've been looking at employment for mental health in California and a lot of places are paying $50,000-60,000 for doctoral level providers. Make sure you get all the numbers from the school including average starting salary, salaries in first 5 years, etc. Ask to speak with graduates of the program. If they can't give you this information, even more reason to run far away. And all this doesn't even count the economic costs of extra years in school. If you aren't competitive for a funded program, if you are passionate about research consider working on improving your profile and plan to apply for the next 1-2 years. If you want to be a clinician, I would encourage you to do a master's degree.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

That "program" makes the other diploma mills in CA seem like Stanford.

Given the competitiveness of the field, you should only consider programs that are APA-acred, have w high match rate to APA-acred internships, and have at least partial if not full funding.

 

[wandergirl]

Oh, this was on the FAQs:
The median amount of debt for program graduates is shown below:
Federal loans: $289,669

Paying an amount like that back over 15 years would require 2500/month, and a salary of $220,000

 

[erg923]

Oh, this was on the FAQs:
The median amount of debt for program graduates is shown below:
Federal loans: $289,669

Paying an amount like that back over 15 years would require 2500/month, and a salary of $220,000

I have a 4 year old that seems to think more critically about his expenditures (usually related to Dusty Crop Hopper or Lightning McQueen toys) than the people that attend this school.

 

[wandergirl]

I have a 4 year old that seems to think more critically about his expenditures (usually related to Dusty Crop Hopper or Lightning McQueen toys) than the people that attend this school.

It's scary. Not limited to this school of course, so many people do not think about the long-term ramification of debt they are taking on.

 

[Summer2016]

Tuition, training model, and everything else aside, these are two serious red flags.



Yeah, I think you're onto something. Don't do it. It's clear that you already know better. Don't let convenience overcome your better judgment.

Thanks, I agree

 

[Summer2016]

I'll add to the chorus with a few additional items. Before taking on education, you must think about the economics of it. If you will be taking on debt, please please please run some calculations: e.g. with this site: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml For example, if you take on 118,000 of debt and plan to pay it back over 15 years, you would need to be able to pay $1000 per month, which would require a salary of 100,000 when you leave school. This is a big leap for a degree from a school that isn't even accredited. I've been looking at employment for mental health in California and a lot of places are paying $50,000-60,000 for doctoral level providers. Make sure you get all the numbers from the school including average starting salary, salaries in first 5 years, etc. Ask to speak with graduates of the program. If they can't give you this information, even more reason to run far away. And all this doesn't even count the economic costs of extra years in school. If you aren't competitive for a funded program, if you are passionate about research consider working on improving your profile and plan to apply for the next 1-2 years. If you want to be a clinician, I would encourage you to do a master's degree.

I went back and asked them for this information and they would not provide it to me.
Thanks for pointing these things out

 

[DrMikeP]

I went back and asked them for this information and they would not provide it to me.
Thanks for pointing these things out

The APA will accredit almost any program that meets some imo fairly week standards. So if a program doesn't have APA then the degree is almost worthless in the world of practicing psychology. Glad you were able to find out before it was too late.