Should I quit grad school for med school?

[ElliottS]

Hi all, my first post, so please excuse any potential faux pas...

I accepted an offer to a fairly prestigious grad school back in April, then had somewhat of an epiphany (working in rural medical clinics abroad) during the following summer, which helped me to realize a passion for medicine. Further interaction with pathologists and clinicians here has strengthened this. I am presently in my first year of a Ph.D. program in biomedical science.

Has anyone else had any kind of similar experience? Should I suck it up and finish the Ph.D., then think about med school, or cut my losses and ditch out? Should I wait it out here for a little bit? Would med schools be willing to accept a Ph.D. dropout? I had a pretty strong undergrad career.

I think maybe I should make a decision soon since I've heard that quitting grad school once you're a few years in is somewhat like chewing off your own leg.

Thanks a bunch!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MD Wiggy]

talk to a med school admissions counselor and see what they have to say. If your current school has a med school you could go there. Or, if you wanted to keep your intentions under wraps go elsewhere.

 

[SailCrazy]

I know for certain (from the dean's mouth, err... fingers, during a med school chat) that some schools view quitting grad school to attend medical school as a BIG negative. They can view it as a lack of dedication and commitment.

That said, if it is really what you want to do, speak with some people who actually know what they're talking about (a good start would be someone in admissions at the med school at your univeristy of their is one) and see what they say.

I would guess that quitting isn't a total killer, but could be a serious hurdle for getting into some schools.

 

[DarkFark]

You might try applying to medical school while enrolled in the PhD program- that way you can have a fallback if things don't work out. How many med app prerequisites did you take while in college? The standard is 1 year each of gen chem, orgo, bio, physics (all with lab), and usually english and calculus as well. Depending on what you've already done, you could plan to take next April's MCAT and be applying by this time next year. If you're missing courses, then it'll take one year longer, in all likelihood, as you take a past-bac to plug the holes.

If this is what you're sure you want, then you should go for it, but I would stay in grad school just in case.

 

[rocketman]

You might try applying to medical school while enrolled in the PhD program- that way you can have a fallback if things don't work out. How many med app prerequisites did you take while in college? The standard is 1 year each of gen chem, orgo, bio, physics (all with lab), and usually english and calculus as well. Depending on what you've already done, you could plan to take next April's MCAT and be applying by this time next year. If you're missing courses, then it'll take one year longer, in all likelihood, as you take a past-bac to plug the holes.

If this is what you're sure you want, then you should go for it, but I would stay in grad school just in case.

I feel obligated to mention that many medical schools will not even consider your application if you are currently enrolled in a graduate program and don't expect to graduate from that program before matriculation at medical school. I'm not saying they will look negatively upon it; I'm saying they won't even consider it. So be aware of this potential problem and seek clarification wherever you consider applying.

 

[pseudoknot]

Do one of the following:

1. Quit now, take a year off (and make sure you have a lot of clinical experience). Then apply to med school.

2. Finish your PhD, and apply in the last year to med school.

Do not apply while in the program, but plan to drop out. Also, I'd be very leery of #2 unless you really need the PhD. I am currently finishing a PhD and interviewing for med school; the graduate degree really does seem to help in the admissions process (although I haven't gotten any decisions back yet, so we'll see!) but I have been asked at many of my interviews if I planned to apply to med school at the time I began grad school. I think it really helped me that I was able to say no.

As far as some kind of stigma for quitting: I think that's BS. Yes, some people will think that, and it will keep you from getting into some schools. However, if you can articulate your reasons well, and you apply to a lot of schools, many admissions committee members will not hold it against you. Plenty of people change their careers, and staying in a graduate program after you've decided it's not your passion is stupid. Besides, the program could take someone else who's more into it if you left.

 

[Gut Shot]

I realized that I wanted to go to med school about three years into my PhD. It was a bit too late to quit, so I toughed it out and finished. Then I went to med school and graduated with my MD in May of this year.

If you're sure that you want to get an MD and pursue clinical medicine, then drop out of grad school. It's really that simple. If I could have been that decisive earlier in my career of graduate student slavery, I could have saved 4+ years of my life. So simplify. Chart the shortest course. Cut through the crap. Don't take small bites.

Sure, dropping out isn't a decision that you should make lightly, and it's one that you might have to explain/justify down the road. But most people won't fault you for not wanting to go down a long, tortuous road that you don't even want to be on. There's no shame in saying "I showed up to grad school, realized it wasn't for me, and decided to pursue something else that I actually enjoy." There are few things more pathetic than some poor bastard who finishes a PhD just because he started it.

 

[beanbean]

Is it possible to switch from your PhD program to a master's within the same program? Completing your masters will allow you to finish a graduate degree before beginning medical school, but will not require the lengthy time committment that a PhD does.

 

[Katya00]

I wouldn't quit! From what I've heard, it is a big negative, since it looks like you can't finish a program, and also you took a place that someone else could have had, which seems unfair...this is from the mouth of a former med school committe member. I would try to finish it, and then go to med school. This way, you are at a much stronger situation, with another degree. Think of what will happen, worst case scenario, if you quit, apply for med school and can't get in? Then you're stuck with nothing.

Those are my two cents, good luck with the decision.

 

[tigress]

I quit my PhD program in February of my first year (this past February). I've already been offered 4 interviews to med school, so it can't have hurt me that much. It came up in interviews (in at least one I brought it up, the interviewer didn't), but never for more than a few moments once I explained myself. I also know at least 3 doctors who quit a PhD program after a semester or a year and went on to attend med school and become physicians. Everybody I have talked to, including the dean of admissions at one school, told me that it will NOT hurt me as long as I explain myself adequately, which I believe I have.

Do not try to apply while you're still in the program with the plan of leaving. First off, you might not be able to do that legally, because you might have to finish the degree program you are in before you can start med school if you are accepted while in the program. Also, it's just not fair to the people you're working with in grad school to stick around if you don't want to be there and don't plan to stay.

Don't stick it out if you don't like it, either. A PhD is a long haul, and you have to be dedicated. I knew that I couldn't do it any longer without the dedication expected of me. When I left my program it was a completely amicable split with my mentor and the head of my department, both of whom saw that I was doing what I ought to.

If you want to PM me, I'm somebody who's been through the exact same thing. I assure you, leaving your program is not the end of the world. There is life beyond being a grad-school dropout 😛

 

[jebus]

I know a few students who have been accepted to their school's MD/PhD program after being enrolled in a PhD program. Would this interest you at all? If accepted you'd still get paid to go to school, get to continue your research, and be sexy. I would talk to the dean of admissions at the med school and see what he or she says is your chance or acceptance or whether dropping your PhD candidacy will hurt you. As long as you can justify your decision I don't know why it would be a problem.

 

[DarkFark]

I feel obligated to mention that many medical schools will not even consider your application if you are currently enrolled in a graduate program and don't expect to graduate from that program before matriculation at medical school. I'm not saying they will look negatively upon it; I'm saying they won't even consider it. So be aware of this potential problem and seek clarification wherever you consider applying.

Really? wow, that's news to me. So much for my idea.

 

[tigress]

I know a few students who have been accepted to their school's MD/PhD program after being enrolled in a PhD program. Would this interest you at all? If accepted you'd still get paid to go to school, get to continue your research, and be sexy. I would talk to the dean of admissions at the med school and see what he or she says is your chance or acceptance or whether dropping your PhD candidacy will hurt you. As long as you can justify your decision I don't know why it would be a problem.

Oh yeah, if you're still into the PhD but you want to do med school also, this is a great option. Most schools will accept first or second year (depending on the school) PhD students into their MD/PhD programs, just like they accept MD students into them. Of course you still have to take the MCAT and meet all the criteria, and it's just as hard to get in. But it's a great option if you're still interested in the PhD stuff.

 

[ElliottS]

I have all the premed coursework under my belt from undergrad. I imagine I would take the MCAT this April and apply the following summer if I went through with it. My big fear (as was mentioned earlier) is that I won't get into med school, and then I will have burned all my Ph.D. bridges. I will look into the MD/PhD path, thanks for the tip. Although I don't want to be the miserable bastard mentioned earlier, stuck in the nth year of my dissertation and gazing fondly toward the far off pastures of clinical graduation 🙂

 

[Gut Shot]

I have all the premed coursework under my belt from undergrad. I imagine I would take the MCAT this April and apply the following summer if I went through with it. My big fear (as was mentioned earlier) is that I won't get into med school, and then I will have burned all my Ph.D. bridges. I will look into the MD/PhD path, thanks for the tip. Although I don't want to be the miserable bastard mentioned earlier, stuck in the nth year of my dissertation and gazing fondly toward the far off pastures of clinical graduation 🙂

Trust me, you'll have a very hard time burning all your PhD bridges. Even if you bail on your current program and can't get into med school, if you're qualified you'll find a reputable PhD program that will take you. The attrition rate of grad schools is atrocious. If you're a warm body with good qualifications you'll have no problem, even as a fallback option. Might not be Harvard, but it's really the postdoc that matters, right?

 

[Gut Shot]

I know a few students who have been accepted to their school's MD/PhD program after being enrolled in a PhD program.

And I know a few dozen who have tried and failed. Don't put your eggs in this basket unless your dad is a Dean.

 

[Gut Shot]

I wouldn't quit! From what I've heard, it is a big negative, since it looks like you can't finish a program, and also you took a place that someone else could have had, which seems unfair...this is from the mouth of a former med school committe member. I would try to finish it, and then go to med school. This way, you are at a much stronger situation, with another degree. Think of what will happen, worst case scenario, if you quit, apply for med school and can't get in? Then you're stuck with nothing.

Those are my two cents, good luck with the decision.

I have lived your advice, literally, and it sucks. You cannot fathom how badly it sucks. It sucks more than anything has sucked before. Call me double doctor, but I wasted six years of my life in graduate school, and I wouldn't do it again for all the cupcakes in China. I'm sure someone out there would interpret such a move as not being able to finish a program. That person would be a ******.

 

[HarrietMiers]

I have lived your advice, literally, and it sucks. You cannot fathom how badly it sucks. It sucks more than anything has sucked before. Call me double doctor, but I wasted six years of my life in graduate school, and I wouldn't do it again for all the cupcakes in China. I'm sure someone out there would interpret such a move as not being able to finish a program. That person would be a ******.

I followed the same path as Havarti666 -- PhD, then med school -- and wanted to second his advice. I wouldn't do it this way over again. There's no reason to stick out a PhD if you're only a year in. And be aware that medical school admissions committes are going to question you either way. (I got asked why I bothered to finish my PhD once I had decided I wanted to be a doctor.)

Yes, somebody at one of your interviews is not going to like the fact that you dropped out. But if you want to be a physician, it's just not worth five years just to finish what you started.

 

[HarrietMiers]

I have lived your advice, literally, and it sucks. You cannot fathom how badly it sucks. It sucks more than anything has sucked before. Call me double doctor, but I wasted six years of my life in graduate school, and I wouldn't do it again for all the cupcakes in China. I'm sure someone out there would interpret such a move as not being able to finish a program. That person would be a ******.

I followed the same path as Havarti666 -- PhD, then med school -- and wanted to second his advice. I wouldn't do it this way over again. There's no reason to stick out a PhD if you're only a year in. And be aware that medical school admissions committes are going to question you either way. (I got asked why I bothered to finish my PhD once I had decided I wanted to be a doctor.)

Yes, somebody at one of your interviews is not going to like the fact that you dropped out. But if you want to be a physician, it's just not worth five years just to finish what you started.

 

[QofQuimica]

Is it possible to switch from your PhD program to a master's within the same program? Completing your masters will allow you to finish a graduate degree before beginning medical school, but will not require the lengthy time committment that a PhD does.

I was going to suggest this, too. If you're sure that you don't want a PhD and that you do want to go to med school, I think your best bet is to try to convert your program to an MS instead of a PhD. You can't go to med school next year anyway, b/c you still have to take the MCAT, so it won't hurt you to spend one more year in grad school to finish the MS while you apply to start med school in fall 2007. Plus, this way, you will have something to show for these two years "off."

 

[Gut Shot]

Don't stick it out if you don't like it, either. A PhD is a long haul, and you have to be dedicated.

Exactly. The person who should be scorned for not finishing isn't the one who got out in the first year. It's the one who hangs on for 7, 8, 9 years or more and just can't seem to pull it together. The early quitter is the smart one, for quickly assessing a bad situation, and then having the cojones to move on in a timely manner.

 

[Hoberto]

I agree with beanbean and Q. See if there is any way you can just get a master's instead of a PhD. You'll be doing something while you apply and will have some fodder for all those essays and interviews.

Also, you are in your first year as in this is your FIRST term or you started over the summer? If you are in your first term you could probably easily switch to an MS program without extra classes and finish by next May. This would leave you free to matriculate into med school in 2007.

I would also like to echo what others have said, if you hate the program sticking it out is insanity. If you only had a year to go that would be one thing, but you just started what is typically a 7+ yr endeavor. There just is no reason to torture yourself like that. So much of getting a PhD depends on the school, PI, administration, etc (and not on you) that you'd be taking a big chance that you'd be able to finish prior to matriculation. Crazy things happen and you don't want to be stuck going nowhere in a grad program when what you really want is to be a medical student/doctor not a graduate student/post-doc.

 

[nontrad314]

Yes, going the MS route is recommended for continuity reasons (seconding Q, BeanBean + hoberto). Simply put, it is win-win on both sides for a student to exit with a credential. Conversely, vanishing into thin air (as some do) can be 'not cool' on both sides of the arrangement (students + institutes). The 'not coolness' can (and does) return in the future (during job interviews / faculty meetings / etc).

Since the first year PhD and MS tracks are virtually indistinguishable you should be good to go. However, depending on the department / program there are differences in how moneys flow for MS and PhD students. This is something to investigate in detail if necessary.

In general, the sooner the better is probably recommended for a move such as this; but it being October it seems the OP still has time for figuring assorted concerns.

Incidently, as many have discussed in this and other threads finishing a PhD really can suck. Hard. Mine didn't, but I witnessed many that did. In short, if you're not 'in to' the PhD for well founded reasons (and that means that the gig is really something you *really* want for some fundamental reason) I'd say avoid it by pursuing a sensible exit such as an MS.
----------------------------
NOTE1: A related (borderline off topic) database (of so-so quality ) covering the 'PhD experience' across disciplines is available here. The bottom line on Parent's findings is essentially that an inordinate fraction of PhD students go through some sort of hell in the pipeline. Definitely something worth considering.

NOTE2: Anyone noticed any security concerns on this thread in relation to Norton?

 

[Karim]

I haven't read any of the replies, but I know that some schools, such as UNSOM (University of Nevada School of Medicine) don't even consider applicants who have quit their grad school for medical school. They require that you finish graduate school first; the Dean of Admissions at UNSOM told me that "it isn't fair for the graduate program"...

 

[maddscientist]

I followed the same path as Havarti666 -- PhD, then med school -- and wanted to second his advice. I wouldn't do it this way over again. There's no reason to stick out a PhD if you're only a year in. And be aware that medical school admissions committes are going to question you either way. (I got asked why I bothered to finish my PhD once I had decided I wanted to be a doctor.)

Yes, somebody at one of your interviews is not going to like the fact that you dropped out. But if you want to be a physician, it's just not worth five years just to finish what you started.

Let me be the third person who has followed this path to tell you to drop out now. I am finishing up this spring and applying for admission to med school in this cycle. Getting a PhD is one of the most painful and mind-numbing things that you can do if you are not going to persue a career in academia. Just imagine sticking your hand in blender-every day for five years-then you will know what graduate school is really like. If you want to enjoy your 20s get out while you still can.

 

[njbmd]

Hi all, my first post, so please excuse any potential faux pas...

I accepted an offer to a fairly prestigious grad school back in April, then had somewhat of an epiphany (working in rural medical clinics abroad) during the following summer, which helped me to realize a passion for medicine. Further interaction with pathologists and clinicians here has strengthened this. I am presently in my first year of a Ph.D. program in biomedical science.

Has anyone else had any kind of similar experience? Should I suck it up and finish the Ph.D., then think about med school, or cut my losses and ditch out? Should I wait it out here for a little bit? Would med schools be willing to accept a Ph.D. dropout? I had a pretty strong undergrad career.

I think maybe I should make a decision soon since I've heard that quitting grad school once you're a few years in is somewhat like chewing off your own leg.

Thanks a bunch!

Hi there,
As others have indicated, many medical schools will not consider you for admission until you have completed your graduate program. This is especially true if you have departmental funding. Once you are done with your research and are in the final stages of your dissertation (meaning that you have defended), then you can submit your application without impunity. You can always post-doc a year or two during your residency.

The other sticking point is that if you are currently enrolled or in a graduate program, most medical schools are going to want a letter from your primary advisor. Very few advisors will write a letter for someone who is quitting their program. If your research is done and your dissertation defended, you should have no problem getting a letter from your chief advisor.

Try to opt out at the masters level if you are totally unhappy. Do realize that this does not sit very well with most doctoral advisors but it is a good "medium ground" solution if you are truly unhappy with your research. The other caveat is that you have to be very careful about broadcasting your medical school ambitions to graduate faculty. Many people have found that bridges started to "burn" once they expressed an interest in medical school.

Cautiously explore your options and figure out how to navigate through to get what you want.

Good luck!
njbmd 🙂

 

[ElliottS]

Thanks for all the tips. I assume that I would lose my stipend if I opted out for the masters, and would have to start paying tuition. Does anyone know if this is the case?

 

[Risa]

Medicine is what you want to do--get out there and do it. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't or that you won't be allowed to or that it would be too hard to switch; that's ridiculous. If you know being a doctor is the right path for you, then you'll find a way to make it happen. Good luck!

 

[little_late_MD]

Thanks for all the tips. I assume that I would lose my stipend if I opted out for the masters, and would have to start paying tuition. Does anyone know if this is the case?

Generally that is the case. Many schools reserve the majority of their merit-based financial aid for PhD students, or master's students who will continue on to their PhD.

 

[Sondra]

I feel obligated to mention that many medical schools will not even consider your application if you are currently enrolled in a graduate program and don't expect to graduate from that program before matriculation at medical school. I'm not saying they will look negatively upon it; I'm saying they won't even consider it. So be aware of this potential problem and seek clarification wherever you consider applying.

This is my understanding as well. They won't consider you unless you will be graduating from your program before med school starts.