should there be any age limit on MDprogram?

[racerx]

---

Members do not see this ad.

...

 

[alwaysaangel]

alwaysangel if medicine is not that important why bother? There are plenty of people that would be glad to take that spot. Also, I am not commenting on the ability of an older applicant to be a great doctor or anything else of the sort.

I didn't say its not important. But its not the only goal in life for most people. Most people have other goals, a lot of them in fact.

Of course its important, who on Earth would go to school for 24 years for something that wasn't.

Medicine is important to me, its something I want very much and I am so happy to be in medical school. But its not number one, I'd actually be pretty sad if medicine was the most important thing in my life. There are so many things more important than a job. Family (as in parents/relatives), friends, husband, children, my own personal health). If I had to choose between any of those and medicine - medicine would lose. Many people are the same way.

And just because its not my (or an older applicants) number one priority - that doesn't make someone else more deserving. Thats the problem with your logic - you somehow think that if medicine isn't the most important thing in someone's life they don't deserve to be a doctor - theres a flaw somewhere in how you got there.

Admissions committees, med professors, residency directors - none of them think that medicine has to be number 1 - so why do you?

 

[alwaysaangel]

what happened to the op anyway?

He started a war and ran away...

 

[xiaoyi666]

I dont think that for the older applicants, 35+, that its that they want to start another career and family before medical school, I think its that they have an experience later on in life that fuels their desire to start medical school.

Contrary to what some ppl think, not everyone knows what they want to do when they are 5 years old.

amwatts, wtf....how can you go from "they see me rollin..." to this. You have me totally confused now.

 

[underpressure]

I have plenty of other goals as well I don't sit around and study 24 hours a day to get into school (usually). Maybe I was just brought up differently because it is more important to me to have a successful career first and let everything else fall into place later. Its also possible that I'm just not as smart as everyone else because I don't see why anyone would put up with the bs of being pre med and taking the mcat if its not that big of a priority. The entire process is extremely time consuming and stressful, and unless you're much smarter than I am why study that much, and put so much into it if its not a big priority?

 

[alwaysaangel]

I have plenty of other goals as well I don't sit around and study 24 hours a day to get into school (usually). Maybe I was just brought up differently because it is more important to me to have a successful career first and let everything else fall into place later.

Well thats something completely different than older applicants not deserving to be doctors because they did something else first. Thats just a perspective on what order it should be in, and whether you should be having a family when your career isn't set.

Your original stance was that somehow the non-trads are less deserving because they came later...

You'll have a family later, you'll take time off, you might even retire early. For many successful physicians that start med school at 22, their career could potentially be shorter than that of a 35 year old who enters medicine.

There is no reason that medical schools should ever discriminate based on the age of the applicant.

Its also possible that I'm just not as smart as everyone else because I don't see why anyone would put up with the bs of being pre med and taking the mcat if its not that big of a priority. The entire process is extremely time consuming and stressful, and unless you're much smarter than I am why study that much, and put so much into it if its not a big priority?

No, not not as smart. Just different perspective. And again, no one said it isn't a big priority, its all just relative. Everyone who ends up in med school wants to be a doctor. The is difference the level of that want compared to their peers, compared to their other goals, and thats all impossible to measure.

 

[smq123]

I get annoyed when I see people in their late 30's and 40's in med school. While its nice they have a new interest in medicine I think there are other ways they can choose to express that. Every spot thats filled by some 40 year old guy that wants to change his life around means some kid who could be in practice much longer doesn't get a spot. Personally I would hate to not get into medical school after dreaming about it my entire life and working my butt off in college to get there so that someone else can practice for 10 years and retire. I think older applicants that are interested in medicine can do other things rather than taking a spot away from someone who has been working to get into medical school their entire life.

Insecure much?

From this particular post (and, honestly, from your subsequent ones) it sounds like your main problem with older applicants is that they might take away a spot from you - a spot that, for whatever reason, you think that you "deserve" more because you will be in practice longer.

I'm willing to believe (hoping, in fact) that these are not your real motives for saying these things. But it's what it sounds like, and that's a crappy reason to say things like that.

If medicine is something you are so passionate about short of life threatening illness I don't see what is so important that you would have to put it off for 20 years.

Oh, you know. Dumb stuff like providing for their family members. Or like not feeling confident enough to plunge into thousands of dollars of debt. 🙄

The people who are 40 years old now were 22 in 1980 or so. Back then, it is very likely that people just felt like they had to provide for their parents/younger siblings by having a job, and not going to college. For some people, going to college or graduate school was a genuine financial sacrifice - not just something that you did because all of your high school classmates did it. Think in a historical context for a second. If those people now find themselves in a more financially stable position, and can now think about going to med school - well, why shouldn't they?

but perhaps I just can't understand the situation from the perspective of an older applicant because I will never be in that position.

If you're lucky enough to get into medical school this year, you'll probably have a few non-trad classmates that you can ask when you start school. And you SHOULD ask them - they usually have very interesting stories.

HrvatskiDoktor you have an interesting point, but I personally do not feel deprived of life experience.

Of course you don't. When you haven't had any, you don't know what you're missing.

Anything I want to do now I can do as a doctor later on.

Why the big rush to get into med school? Medicine will rush in and invade your life (literally) fast enough - why do you want a headlong plunge so badly?

 

[underpressure]

I don't think older applicants are undeserving and maybe I misrepresented my stance. I think if there is a decision between two applicants who have comparable applications it makes more sense to offer the spot to the younger applicant because they can practice longer. If the older applicant is significantly more qualified age should not be a factor.

I had a similar discussion with an interviewer who said he interviewed a man in his 50's and felt very uncomfortable giving him a spot over a younger applicant.

alwaysangel I meant maybe I'm not as smart because I had to put so much time into studying for school and the mcat. Unless someone found these things easy I don't see why they would want to put the time in for something that isn't a huge priority.

Smq123 your interpretation of my life is amusing. While you are putting down my opinions because they are very generalized and don't take into account the individual life stories of all non traditional applicants you are also making a number of assumptions. That seems pretty familiar huh....

 

[DogzRool]

I don't think it takes decades to strengthen an application. I eventually want to have a family as well but medical school is much more important right now. I don't see any need to rush into marriage or children those things are a lot easier to come by than an acceptance letter.

Hi - 46 year old M2 here. Yup, in my vast, yet apparently worthless life experience, marriage and children were SO much easier to come by than medical school acceptance. 🙄 Sheesh. Just wait.

 

[alwaysaangel]

I don't think older applicants are undeserving and maybe I misrepresented my stance. I think if there is a decision between two applicants who have comparable applications it makes more sense to offer the spot to the younger applicant because they can practice longer. If the older applicant is significantly more qualified age should not be a factor.

Well, fortunately adcoms don't agree with you. They push for diversity in their classes and thats important, because a good portion of your learning in medical school will happen with your classmates and it depends on their life experiences. The more diverse your class (be it age, race, social status, experiences) the more you get to learn. Adcomms realize this and make a point of encouraging diversity.

And its hard to talk about "comparable apps" when talking about a 35 yo and a 22 yo. I mean, numbers could be the same but outside of that the applications will be so different it would be impossible to call them comparable.

 

[alwaysaangel]

alwaysangel I meant maybe I'm not as smart because I had to put so much time into studying for school and the mcat. Unless someone found these things easy I don't see why they would want to put the time in for something that isn't a huge priority.

I get that - but what I said still stands. Its all relative. Whats a huge priority to you, whats a huge priority to me, and whats a huge priority to the 46yo who just posted are all completely different concepts. Which is why discussing "putting time into something that isn't a huge priority" is meaningless.

I'm sure when the above poster took his MCATs at 44 they were a 'huge priority' - hell, going into medicine might have been important to him/her at 22. But having a family first was a HUGER priority. Its all relative and its impossible to talk about because of that.

 

[smq123]

I had a similar discussion with an interviewer who said he interviewed a man in his 50's and felt very uncomfortable giving him a spot over a younger applicant.

And that's that interviewer's personal problem. But it doesn't mean that his attitude was the correct one. It just means that he happened to agree with you on this particular issue.

Unless someone found these things easy I don't see why they would want to put the time in for something that isn't a huge priority.

But you don't know that med school was "not a huge priority" for non-trad applicants! You don't know enough about their background, or their personal life, or the choices that they were forced to make, to judge. Maybe med school WAS a huge priority, but, unfortunately, bigger priorities got in the way. And I understand that it doesn't make sense to your 22-year old mind, but there ARE bigger priorities than med school.

I was waiting in the holding area of the OR, and hanging out with one of the patients who was going to have an arthroscopy of his shoulder. When he asked me if I was a third year med student, I said that I was. He said that he had always dreamed about going to med school, but when he was in college, his father got very ill. The patient had been forced to leave college and go to work to support his mother and his younger siblings. Med school got farther and farther away from him. These things happen. Some people are luckier than he was, and are able to go to med school, even at the age of 35 or 40. Why shouldn't they have the chance to go?

 

[smq123]

Smq123 your interpretation of my life is amusing. While you are putting down my opinions because they are very generalized and don't take into account the individual life stories of all non traditional applicants you are also making a number of assumptions. That seems pretty familiar huh....

Maybe you have had more experience than "people twice your age," as you claimed. But I'd like to think that someone with that much life experience would understand that all kinds of obstacles keep people from going to med school in their mid-20s. And that those people might still want to become doctors someday, and start their med school careers when they're in their late 30s.

And I think that the fundamental misunderstanding here is that I don't believe that people should become doctors JUST to help patients. You could do that by becoming a halfway capable social worker. (On trauma, emergency medicine, and internal med, a good social worker is worth his/her weight in gold - I spend more time on the phone with social workers than I spend on the phone with attendings.) There has to be an element of self-fulfillment when you decide to become a doctor, and I don't see why a 23 year old is entitled to that sense of self-fulfillment, but a 43 year old isn't.

 

[foreverLaur]

Someone who had a midlife crisis and decided to switch from law to business for no good reason probably won't get in anyways. Those that get into medical school at an older age have a strong passion for medicine and an application to prove it. There is no reason to tell him or her no.

I admire those who pursue medicine later in life. I don't think I could put my life on that much of a hold and go into that much debt that late in life. Those are the people who, IMO, end up making some pretty incredible doctors.

 

[Maxprime]

I cannot believe that this thread developed into a serious conversation.

1) Every spot "wasted" on a 40 year old with kids and some real world experience is unfairly displacing some kid whose biggest responsibility until now was being treasurer of their fraternity.

2) Don't forget that 40 year olds are doing residency in their mid 40s - a hell of a lot harder than when you're in your mid 20s. They're aware that they don't move like they used to, they're working much harder than you are. They're also probably balancing a real life with concerns greater than whether or not they TiVo'd Grey's Anatomy.

3) Believe it or not, in the US there are not people dying in the streets by the millions because there aren't enough doctors around. We don't need to extract promising candidates from the womb and get them in the clinic before puberty for them to have any lasting impact on society.

4) They're not trading in mom & dad's monthly allowance from the college fund - they have real jobs they're trading in. The type that gets accepted usually has a very successful career and are going from being rather well paid to deeply in debt.

Sincerely,
The guy that will listen to every bit of advice that old people give him in med school.

P.S. Ever have a disproportionately old person in an undergrad class with you? They're always the best students.

 

[xiaoyi666]

Not saying that I favor the age limit but I think most are missing one important point when arguing:

There is and will be a shortage of physicians due to baby boomers.
There are only a certain number of medical school seats available.
Applicants who are 35+ will probably be able to serve the community (assume retire at age 65) ~25 years before retiring.
Applicants who are 22 will probably be able to serve the community (assume retire at age 65) maybe ~35-40 years before retiring.
Thus a larger pool of younger applicants will alleviate the physician shortage more so than 35+ applicants.

Of course, there are many counter arguments that have already been made (i.e. life experiences, maturity, motivation...etc). It's all something for adcoms to think about when deciding who to admit.

 

[smq123]

There are only a certain number of medical school seats available.
Applicants who are 35+ will probably be able to serve the community (assume retire at age 65) ~25 years before retiring.
Applicants who are 22 will probably be able to serve the community (assume retire at age 65) maybe ~35-40 years before retiring.

"Probably" being the operative word. There's no guarantee. What if all those applicants who are +35 stay in med school and work until they're 75? (It happens - some physicians work until they're 85; heck some work until they're on their deathbed.) And what if all those 22 yo applicants drop out during 2nd year of med school?

There is and will be a shortage of physicians due to baby boomers.

Thus a larger pool of younger applicants will alleviate the physician shortage more so than 35+ applicants.

We can alleviate the "physician shortage" ONLY if a majority of those younger applicants go into family med, ophtho, geriatric psych, emergency med, or internal medicine >> geriatrics. If those younger applicants choose to go into radiology, derm, ortho, or pediatrics, then you haven't done anything to address the "physician shortage" caused by the baby boomers. But you can't guarantee that, or force people to go into certain specialties.

 

[Mayday]

OK, let's see. In high school I decided that there was no point in going into debt for college. At 19 I had a child (not planned). At 20, I decided I wanted to be a doctor. At 21, I had to drop out of school because I couldn't work full time, be a single mom full time, and go to school. My grades suffered. For the next 10 years, I kept looking at school, and finding it was still not a feasible option. I kept telling myself "Well, perhaps in a few years"

Finally, at age 30 (halfway through the school year), I found a way to go back to school. I had to start all over again because my credits that I had earned were too old. Because of the number of pre-requisite classes that I had to take (2 math classes before pre-calc for instance) I will be 36 before entering medical school.

So, you say that older people are less deserving because you have been dreaming about being a doctor for a long time? Well, guess what. So have I. I have had to work HARDER than you to get there. I fully plan on working until I fall over or they make me retire - retirement sounds boring. So, go ahead, tell me how I shouldn't be going to medical school.

 

[HrvatskiDoktor]

Not saying that I favor the age limit but I think most are missing one important point when arguing:

There is and will be a shortage of physicians due to baby boomers.
There are only a certain number of medical school seats available.
Applicants who are 35+ will probably be able to serve the community (assume retire at age 65) ~25 years before retiring.
Applicants who are 22 will probably be able to serve the community (assume retire at age 65) maybe ~35-40 years before retiring.
Thus a larger pool of younger applicants will alleviate the physician shortage more so than 35+ applicants.

Of course, there are many counter arguments that have already been made (i.e. life experiences, maturity, motivation...etc). It's all something for adcoms to think about when deciding who to admit.

You also have to consider burn out rates. I know several MD's who are planning on retiring as soon as their loans are paid off b/c they got in so early and have burned out now that they are 45 or 50. They will continue to work in the field, but not as a clinician, so the physician shortage will continue.

 

[prettymonkey]

OK, let's see. In high school I decided that there was no point in going into debt for college. At 19 I had a child (not planned). At 20, I decided I wanted to be a doctor. At 21, I had to drop out of school because I couldn't work full time, be a single mom full time, and go to school. My grades suffered. For the next 10 years, I kept looking at school, and finding it was still not a feasible option. I kept telling myself "Well, perhaps in a few years"

Finally, at age 30 (halfway through the school year), I found a way to go back to school. I had to start all over again because my credits that I had earned were too old. Because of the number of pre-requisite classes that I had to take (2 math classes before pre-calc for instance) I will be 36 before entering medical school.

So, you say that older people are less deserving because you have been dreaming about being a doctor for a long time? Well, guess what. So have I. I have had to work HARDER than you to get there. I fully plan on working until I fall over or they make me retire - retirement sounds boring. So, go ahead, tell me how I shouldn't be going to medical school.

good for you! i really hope that everything works out for you.

 

[elderjack21]

age discrimination is bad but return to the society has to be taken in to consideration.

yeah, good idea. I think we should start making quotas on how many people of certain religious backgrounds get into school, certain races, and we should definitely put limits on how many biology majors can practice medicine.

No doubt, everyone who becomes an MD at an early age will have a much "higher return to society" and his/her pocket than someone coming in older than 35.

SDN classic...love it!

 

[windjammer]

Underpressure- I mean sonny,
[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']You have so much to offer I don’t know where to start. I am one of those elderly individuals you would be competing with for a seat in medical school. Yes, I am older and I chose to go back to school later in life, I am 35 and all. I wonder if I will have trouble hearing the professors. Maybe it’s time for me to look into Bel Tone hearing aids? What if I crap my pants while in lecture and have to leave to change my diaper, will someone take notes for me? It doesn’t matter how old someone is while in medical school as long as they have achieved their goals. For me, I have been a registered respiratory therapist for 12 years and now a registered nurse with a master’s degree. From a boy I always wanted to go to medical school but it never worked out until now. Did it ever occur to you that we might learn something from each other if we went to school together? You say you have all this life experience yet you are so oblivious to life. Welcome to reality, life happens, we all aren’t on your time table!!😎.

 

[ayoung45]

In arguing this, I think it is relavant to consider the magnitude of contributions made by residents. I'm not in a position to say.

Put another way, if a 45 year old enters medical school and then to a 5 year residency, is the person contributing from age 49 to retirement or from 54 to retirement?

Thanks

 

[DeadCactus]

Yes. While we're out it, we should bar people who smoke, drink, ride motorcycles, commute in heavy traffic, or have a family history of serious illness. Society shouldn't be footing the bill for people who are just going to get themselves killed or keel over a few years after residency.

 

[ruraldr]

http://www.unmc.edu/Community/ruralmeded/older_medical_students.htm

Indicates that older graduates are more likely to choose family medicine, choose and stay in primary care, and be found serving in rural or underserved locations.

These could be said to be areas where physician shortages are the most extreme.

 

[Tin Man]

Funny, I thought that every applicant's age would be written in the files that the medical school interviewers have.

Is being able to read numbers no longer a prerequisite for medical school? Or can we safely assume that the medical school interviewers are capable of subtracting numbers (must have been all of that chemistry), and be able to deduce whether an applicant will be worth the time to train?

I would go with the latter, but then again, I'm one of those silly-billies that a doctor over the age of 65, so I suppose I'm too biased to talk about it.

In all honesty, I would bet dollars to diapers that that most people, at age fifty, are not thinking to themselves, "Wow! I'm almost at retirement age! So what should I do with my life? Should I start taking it easy? Should I begin working hard and saving money for retirement? Or should I spend eight years in school, four in residency, and then work as a doctor for the last three years of my working life attempting to pay off my titanic debt?"

I think it might be safe to assume that anyone willing to go through pre-med at that point in their life isn't really looking just to occupy themselves in their older age. We have A-tracks for that. It's safe to assume that they would be in it for the long run.

But then again, I've never met any of them crazy old people who want to spend eight years in school just for kicks and giggles, and still manages to make it past a medical school interviewer with that sort of attitude. So my core of experience is somewhat limited in that regard.

 

[prettymonkey]

Yes. While we're out it, we should bar people who smoke, drink, ride motorcycles, commute in heavy traffic, or have a family history of serious illness. Society shouldn't be footing the bill for people who are just going to get themselves killed or keel over a few years after residency.

there should also be a section on the application that asks about exercise, fruits and vegetables intake, red meat consumption frequency, familial and social support, family history of various diseases, BMI, and complete health history. those with a shorter life expectancy or increased risk of chronic diseases should be rejected.

 

[xiaoyi666]

"Probably" being the operative word. There's no guarantee. What if all those applicants who are +35 stay in med school and work until they're 75? (It happens - some physicians work until they're 85; heck some work until they're on their deathbed.) And what if all those 22 yo applicants drop out during 2nd year of med school?



We can alleviate the "physician shortage" ONLY if a majority of those younger applicants go into family med, ophtho, geriatric psych, emergency med, or internal medicine >> geriatrics. If those younger applicants choose to go into radiology, derm, ortho, or pediatrics, then you haven't done anything to address the "physician shortage" caused by the baby boomers. But you can't guarantee that, or force people to go into certain specialties.

Likewise, you can't guarantee any of that for the reverse either. Assuming all things the same, younger students in this sense offer better economic efficiency. I'm actually pro-mature students but someone needed to make some counter arguments.

 

[notdeadyet]

I'm sure there are plenty of thinks that I will miss out on by going to medical school early, but thats a sacrifice I am willing to make to be a doctor. Anything I want to do now I can do as a doctor later on.

Really? A fellow student in his 30's served his country as a marine for most of his 20's. Another worked as an inner-city teacher for 10 years. We have a firefighter as well.

You will never do those things "later on". Don't kid yourself. Some folks make contributions to society in other ways before they decide to pursue medicine. Some of them will be much better doctors for it. They approach medicine with a lot of life experience that only comes with age.

Unlike traditionally aged applicants, these folks are pretty much full developed adults and not works in progress. You know how 40% of surveyed doctors claim that if they had to do it all over again, they wouldn't do medicine? I don't know any doctors like that who are non-trads.

When folks talk about medical school as if its the xenith of a life's work, they betray a level of immaturity. Get over it folks. It's just grad school. It's training for a career. No one signs a blood oath, so any talk of seats being "taken" by folks who won't work in the field as long is just silly.

 

[notdeadyet]

I don't see why anyone would put up with the bs of being pre med and taking the mcat if its not that big of a priority. The entire process is extremely time consuming and stressful, and unless you're much smarter than I am why study that much, and put so much into it if its not a big priority?

This is kind of why I think older nontrads make for happier med students: we have the experience to realize that the prereqs and med school application process is no more of a "crapshoot" or "stressful" than building up for a good job hunt. It's about perspective.

In all the great trials you'll encounter in life, applying for medical school doesn't even make the top 5.

 

[jace's mom]

In all the great trials you'll encounter in life, applying for medical school doesn't even make the top 5.

My mother passed away suddenly after a long illness; we're burying her on Tuesday. Med school application? Not even on the list of trials...more like the list of opportunities.

Btw: 34, married, four children. Start med school in July, now with a great deal of empathy for patients, their families, and the process of dying.

 

[Depakote]

In arguing this, I think it is relavant to consider the magnitude of contributions made by residents. I'm not in a position to say.

Put another way, if a 45 year old enters medical school and then to a 5 year residency, is the person contributing from age 49 to retirement or from 54 to retirement?

Thanks

If you don't think residents don't actually provide health care, you're in for a bit of a surprise.

 

[sunny1]

Not saying that I favor the age limit but I think most are missing one important point when arguing:

There is and will be a shortage of physicians due to baby boomers.
There are only a certain number of medical school seats available.
Applicants who are 35+ will probably be able to serve the community (assume retire at age 65) ~25 years before retiring.
Applicants who are 22 will probably be able to serve the community (assume retire at age 65) maybe ~35-40 years before retiring.
Thus a larger pool of younger applicants will alleviate the physician shortage more so than 35+ applicants.

Of course, there are many counter arguments that have already been made (i.e. life experiences, maturity, motivation...etc). It's all something for adcoms to think about when deciding who to admit.

This argument doesn't hold either because:

1) you assume that a younger person will make a greater impact on society based on number of years in practice alone. This will not always be the case. Years in practice do not mean one made a great or better impact. There are all the qualitative measures that this criterion ignores, in addition to the possibility that a younger physician might choose to retire early or leave the field for some reason.

2) IF doctors were trained, say, for free by the government, then your argument about return service to community might hold (i.e., getting more bang for your buck based solely on possible # years for practice) --except scholarships are few and far between. Most people assume a significant amount of debt for the "privilege" of attending medical school. Once I get into school, because I am the one that assumes this heavy financial burden and must pay it off, it is my decision to make after I graduate what I want to do with my degree.

Sure, schools might make some valuation of candidates by choosing people who they think are leaders who will do great things and bring positive reknown back upon their school for educating these people. But rarely would that be based solely on functional years in the career left if we are considering a 35 vs. a 22 year old. There is so much more to consider than that alone.

 

[JackDanielMD]

This thread exemplifies why I HATE some people on SDN. I know, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and i know, that we are supposed to civil on SDN. I'm sorry, but when someone's opinion is so G*D D*MN F*CK*NG ******ed, it kind of makes me sick. I am so tired of these arrogant pre-meds who constantly evaluate what would be in the "best interest of society," as if they actually had a clue as to what society is like outside of their dorm room. But in accordance with SDN's policies, I will remain nice and civil, and very politely ask the OP to remove his DNA from the human gene pool, because that would be in the best interest of society.

 

[bioteach]

I'm sorry, but when someone's opinion is so G*D D*MN F*CK*NG ******ed, it kind of makes me sick.

👍 I couldn't have said it more eloquently myself.

 

[supafield]

This thread exemplifies why I HATE some people on SDN. I know, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and i know, that we are supposed to civil on SDN. I'm sorry, but when someone's opinion is so G*D D*MN F*CK*NG ******ed, it kind of makes me sick. I am so tired of these arrogant pre-meds who constantly evaluate what would be in the "best interest of society," as if they actually had a clue as to what society is like outside of their dorm room. But in accordance with SDN's policies, I will remain nice and civil, and very politely ask the OP to remove his DNA from the human gene pool, because that would be in the best interest of society.

Overstated maybe... However I fully agree...
If anything, an argument is made for putting a minimum age on matriculating due to some of the opinions of would-be doctors that lack any depth or maturity in this forum.

There's a lot of bright people that actually contribute but a handfull of idiots that sadly, with an inflated list of EC's and high GPA, will get by the ADCOMS and make their colleagues look bad as their practice will reflect their idiocy.

 

[racerx]

there should also be a section on the application that asks about exercise, fruits and vegetables intake, red meat consumption frequency, familial and social support, family history of various diseases, BMI, and complete health history. those with a shorter life expectancy or increased risk of chronic diseases should be rejected.

I hear ya'!
Begins to sound a lot like eugenics doesn't it? Adolf would be proud.

 

[45408]

Personally I would hate to not get into medical school after dreaming about it my entire life and working my butt off in college to get there so that someone else can practice for 10 years and retire.

If you don't get in because someone else "took your spot," you should've worked harder.

I think older applicants that are interested in medicine can do other things rather than taking a spot away from someone who has been working to get into medical school their entire life.

We also shouldn't allow traditional students to enter medical school if they decided that they want to become doctors while they were in college. If you didn't know you wanted to be a doctor from any older than 15, you can't apply. Sorry.

 

[45408]

there should also be a section on the application that asks about exercise, fruits and vegetables intake, red meat consumption frequency, familial and social support, family history of various diseases, BMI, and complete health history. those with a shorter life expectancy or increased risk of chronic diseases should be rejected.

I see here that you were previously operated on for a congenital heart defect. I'm sorry, but your kind is not welcome here. We want people with a full lifespan ahead of them. You could always apply elsewhere.

 

[xiaoyi666]

This argument doesn't hold either because:

1) you assume that a younger person will make a greater impact on society based on number of years in practice alone. This will not always be the case. Years in practice do not mean one made a great or better impact. There are all the qualitative measures that this criterion ignores, in addition to the possibility that a younger physician might choose to retire early or leave the field for some reason.

2) IF doctors were trained, say, for free by the government, then your argument about return service to community might hold (i.e., getting more bang for your buck based solely on possible # years for practice) --except scholarships are few and far between. Most people assume a significant amount of debt for the "privilege" of attending medical school. Once I get into school, because I am the one that assumes this heavy financial burden and must pay it off, it is my decision to make after I graduate what I want to do with my degree.

Sure, schools might make some valuation of candidates by choosing people who they think are leaders who will do great things and bring positive reknown back upon their school for educating these people. But rarely would that be based solely on functional years in the career left if we are considering a 35 vs. a 22 year old. There is so much more to consider than that alone.

Entire point I was trying to make. It was stated in an earlier post; just wanted to defend the OP from ppl calling him/her a troll.

 

[HEADintheCLOUDS]

Medicine is important to me, its something I want very much and I am so happy to be in medical school. But its not number one, There are so many things more important than a job. Family (as in parents/relatives), friends, husband, children, my own personal health). If I had to choose between any of those and medicine - medicine would lose. Many people are the same way.

Thats the problem with your logic - you somehow think that if medicine isn't the most important thing in someone's life they don't deserve to be a doctor - theres a flaw somewhere in how you got there.

I can just imagine when you kill someone how their family is going to take the news. "Yeah saving you mom was not my #1 priority, I would rather visit my family, because somethings are more important than a job".

You are entitled to you opinion (despite the skewdness of them) but please dont say that medicine is not your number one priority in front of a patient. They want to feel like medicine is the most important thing to a doctor and if they feel it is not then they will lose hope in you as a doctor. And if they do this they will not trust your decisons as much. Just think about it.

 

[HumidBeing]

I can just imagine when you kill someone how their family is going to take the news. "Yeah saving you mom was not my #1 priority, I would rather visit my family, because somethings are more important than a job".

You are entitled to you opinion (despite the skewdness of them) but please dont say that medicine is not your number one priority in front of a patient. They want to feel like medicine is the most important thing to a doctor and if they feel it is not then they will lose hope in you as a doctor. And if they do this they will not trust your decisons as much. Just think about it.

That's not at all what she meant. She's saying that a career is only one aspect of a person's life. A doctor doesn't say such things in front of a patient any more than a cashier tells people that family is more important than a price check, though I hope it is. There are people who base their entire lives on careers. That doesn't make them more capable than those who do what their jobs demand, but keep it in balance with their lives as people. Being a doctor is part of one's life. It's not the entire life.

 

[45408]

I can just imagine when you kill someone how their family is going to take the news. "Yeah saving you mom was not my #1 priority, I would rather visit my family, because somethings are more important than a job".

You are entitled to you opinion (despite the skewdness of them) but please dont say that medicine is not your number one priority in front of a patient. They want to feel like medicine is the most important thing to a doctor and if they feel it is not then they will lose hope in you as a doctor. And if they do this they will not trust your decisons as much. Just think about it.

I doubt it. Most people don't expect you to put their family member over your own family members.

 

[135892]

I personally don't think that there should be an age limit, I mean an individual can do whatever he/she wants. However, I can see the argument of how older applicants may provide less return to society. You can't say that this argument is completely wrong

 

[JackDanielMD]

Little touchy, aren't you? What's wrong, strike a nerve?

I don't think an age limit would be a terrible idea, but it's kind of unnecessary right now. Maybe if there were legions of highly qualified applicants being turned away, then there would be some validity to paring them down based on age. But from what I can tell, we're already letting in a substantial portion of mediocre applicants. For now, I'm happy to see the MCAT determine admissions, not age.

A) There are more qualified medical school school applicants out there now, than ever.

B) Age is, in fact, a factor of admissions.

 

[Steve16]

In my opinion, if there are ever age restrictions put on medical school they should require applicants be 25+ to apply. This would ensure future physicians are more mature and actually understand what real-life out of college is like.

 

[drlisa0318]

If medicine is something you are so passionate about short of life threatening illness I don't see what is so important that you would have to put it off for 20 years. If your main goal in life is to have children and put a career off until later I personally don't feel you have any business going to medical school. I may not have as much life experience as an older applicant but my number one priority in life is getting into medical school and if thats not how you feel there are plenty of 22-30 year olds that do and would be happy to take that spot so you can go make more babies or try out another job.

Wow....just...wow. Reminds me of the hippies in the 60's who claimed that life ended at 30, and that anyone over 30 wasn't to be trusted. (And no, before you get your panties in a wad, I know you weren't saying THAT.)

It's great that, at 22, you know yourself well enough that you know what you want to do with your life. You, however, are the rare exception, not the rule. The vast majority of people have no REAL idea WHAT they want to do with their lives at that age, let alone what they have to do to get there. Heck, I was in my 30's before I even had a general idea of the direction I wanted to take. I was in my 40's when I started refining that. I was in my late 40's when I finally found a way that I could financially afford to start on this amazing journey.

There's a reason someone came up with the saying, "Youth is wasted on the young."

 

[drlisa0318]

OK, let's see. In high school I decided that there was no point in going into debt for college. At 19 I had a child (not planned). At 20, I decided I wanted to be a doctor. At 21, I had to drop out of school because I couldn't work full time, be a single mom full time, and go to school. My grades suffered. For the next 10 years, I kept looking at school, and finding it was still not a feasible option. I kept telling myself "Well, perhaps in a few years"

Finally, at age 30 (halfway through the school year), I found a way to go back to school. I had to start all over again because my credits that I had earned were too old. Because of the number of pre-requisite classes that I had to take (2 math classes before pre-calc for instance) I will be 36 before entering medical school.

So, you say that older people are less deserving because you have been dreaming about being a doctor for a long time? Well, guess what. So have I. I have had to work HARDER than you to get there. I fully plan on working until I fall over or they make me retire - retirement sounds boring. So, go ahead, tell me how I shouldn't be going to medical school.

Oh, I LIKE you!🙂

 

[Kaustikos]

Are we assuming that we die at 60? Because, last I checked, there are a couple 20 years left after that for a lot of people. Like some people have posted, having people who are over 30 and going into medical school is far from bad.
I don't like the assumption that you have to have everything figured out by the time you're in college. Why? The assumption that you can't do anything if you take a break? Or choose to do something else entirely? I have a friend who is a year ahead of me, brilliant (really brilliant) and wanted to pursue medicine. I was almost certain he would, but in the middle of college he dropped out. I was completely baffled as he packed his bags and went back home. Like some people think now, I thought "How can you stop? Are you giving up?" Not understanding his reasoning until now. He went away for almost 2 years doing various things (volunteering, teaching, book editor) until finally coming back and saying he was ready for medicine. He's now finishing college and getting ready for the mcat because now he feels ready. Some people are like that. Some don't know they're not ready and try to pursue their goals immaturely. Others have a grasp. But we still shouldn't discriminate on age.

Hell, if a 80 year old was sitting next to me for a nonsensical interview where the interviewer was basically figuring out who should go; me or him/her, I would gladly give my spot to that person. Can you imagine the impact? Can you imagine just HOW interesting that person would be? Deciding at the age of 80 that he wants to pursue medicine? Come on, let's make it a priority to remove the stigma that you have to get from point a to point b asap. It's tiring and false. Our age limit is maxed out in the 120s. Getting to point a at 30 means you have 90 years to do that. Where as getting to point a at 45 means you have 75 years to do that. Still a lot of years regardless.

 

[GoBuckeyes913]

Little touchy, aren't you? What's wrong, strike a nerve?

I don't think an age limit would be a terrible idea, but it's kind of unnecessary right now. Maybe if there were legions of highly qualified applicants being turned away, then there would be some validity to paring them down based on age. But from what I can tell, we're already letting in a substantial portion of mediocre applicants. For now, I'm happy to see the MCAT determine admissions, not age.

agreed, I'd take the smarter doc anyway.. regardless of age.

medical school is not free. Most people pay around $35,000 a year in tuition so its not like society is footing the bill. if we decided that age was a valid admission criteria then the younger the better. why stop at 35? those under 22 should be given preference regardless of whether someone has more experiences or education that could be beneficial as a physician. also, people should be asked how long they are planning to practice. some people retire at 65 while others practice until their 80's. another thing: what about maternity leave? women should not be allowed into medical school if they are planning on having multiple children. it's all about quantity of years of practice, not quality. it's hard to get into medical school regardless of age. if someone has the determination and dedication to do it at 80 i am impressed.

Please tell me I am delerious from call and this is mere sarcasm