Should we be worried...ADA accreditation to international schools

[mass]

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i just got accepted to dental school...this is the most depressing thing ive read. i went through a tough 4 years in undergrad to get a biochemistry degree and studied for the DAT really hard, and shadowed and volunteered my butt off for hundreds of hours. ill be 29 by the time i get out of school and ill be competing with some 22 year old from india that didnt even have to go through undergrad. it figures that now that i get in, i read this and find out that all my hard work may not even really pay off....wow 🙁

throw in free medical care for illegal immigrants and it seems like it pays less everyday to be a (hard working) american citizen.

look dont get depressed. Its not even been bloody confirmed so i dont get what all this moaning is about.

 

[predental1984]

No they are not accredited, yet. If you graduate from there, you come in here as a third year as any foreign dentist would. Still, they will save 2 years. And not have to go through undergrad, which in my opinion was a waste of 4 years as you relearn all that stuff anyway.
I guess 4 years of social interaction is nice in becoming a functional human being.

 

[Regmata]

This is already the case in medicine and it did not ruin the career. It would be nice to keep the number of dentists down, but there is a shortage of dentists and as a profession, ethically we have an obligation to strive to provide adequate care for the population we serve. At least, I assume that this line of thinking has at least in part something to do with the ADA's reasoning behind this. Regardless, it is nothing that I would overly concern myself as a predent or dental student. Dentists will still be needed, a few foreign programs are not going to saturate the U.S. with dentists and you have to believe that the ADA is working to protect the profession and our ability to bring home a good paycheck. If you really want your voice to be heard or just to learn more about this and other issues, you can always get involved with ASDA or the ADA.

 

[toofshucker]

i just got accepted to dental school...this is the most depressing thing ive read. i went through a tough 4 years in undergrad to get a biochemistry degree and studied for the DAT really hard, and shadowed and volunteered my butt off for hundreds of hours. ill be 29 by the time i get out of school and ill be competing with some 22 year old from india that didnt even have to go through undergrad. it figures that now that i get in, i read this and find out that all my hard work may not even really pay off....wow 🙁

throw in free medical care for illegal immigrants and it seems like it pays less everyday to be a (hard working) american citizen.

Yeah, but people continue to vote for Juan McCain, Hillary, and Obama. We, as Americans, say we care, but our actions don't agree with our words. But then again, who cares, as long as we know how Brittany is doing with rehab, right?

 

[rtvj]

mass....the point of this "rant" is to clear blissdental's and other sdners assumptions of certain issues regarding foreign students and immigration. U better be more informed if u r planning to study in India.





whats the point of this rant when there is no confirmation yet of actual accerediation of ANY indian unis!😕[/QUOTE]

 

[blissdental]

Yeah, but people continue to vote for Juan McCain, Hillary, and Obama. We, as Americans, say we care, but our actions don't agree with our words. But then again, who cares, as long as we know how Brittany is doing with rehab, right?

So true!

 

[tamkhan]

This is already the case in medicine and it did not ruin the career. It would be nice to keep the number of dentists down, but there is a shortage of dentists and as a profession, ethically we have an obligation to strive to provide adequate care for the population we serve. At least, I assume that this line of thinking has at least in part something to do with the ADA's reasoning behind this. Regardless, it is nothing that I would overly concern myself as a predent or dental student. Dentists will still be needed, a few foreign programs are not going to saturate the U.S. with dentists and you have to believe that the ADA is working to protect the profession and our ability to bring home a good paycheck. If you really want your voice to be heard or just to learn more about this and other issues, you can always get involved with ASDA or the ADA.

A lot of people think that the ADA is anti GP. GPs tend to side themselves with the AGD.

Anyhow, like you mentioned, foreign accreditation should not be an issue. Medical schools have been accredited and the profession of medicine hasn't suffered as a result. Also, simply accrediting dental schools in other countries will not change the demographics of practicing dentists in the US. If accreditation does start to create a panic among dentists, I am pretty sure several dental organizations will introduce new measures to make sure that everything is kept under control.

 

[blissdental]

I said that the medium of instruction/teaching is in English.The books are in English. So u study in English. The textbooks are mostly by American/British authors.The only time u will talk in an Indian language is while conversing with ur patients.

And who told u green cards take "a couple of years"!!!!! I never said it is impossible but it takes a loooooooooooooong time to get one, and with all the retrogression and backlog- prbly 5-8 years that is if u get someone to sponsor ur work visa and then ur GC!!
And u cannot work in ur home country when u apply for GC. U have to live here and work for ur sponsoring employer(there r exceptions to this rule but that is in the minority)
GC is not as easy as u think it is.

I am from India and I do believe that the way patients are cared for in the US is different from that back home. We are as competent as any dentist in the US but the method and standard of care here is definitely very different and to understand that we need to go through advanced standing programs. Based on that I think its very important for foreign students to go thro some kind of program in the US before they get a license to work here.






By "a couple of years" I did actually mean 5-8 years.
5-8 years is not short but it is so when compared to 25-30 years
of your whole dental career.

And not only India but most countries worldwide use American texts in the dental/medical/pharm schools but when it comes to the application procedures to these schools the requirement of fluency in their language is not even mentioned simply because it is a "must".
Like you had mentioned, if dentists are to speak in Indian with their patients in India, why would those Indian dental schools accept students that can't even speak indian??
IF they do accept these foreign students that can't even speak indian, wouldn't they be accepting them with the purpose of training them for patients outside of India, like the US?

 

[MansonTiles]

i just got accepted to dental school...this is the most depressing thing ive read. i went through a tough 4 years in undergrad to get a biochemistry degree and studied for the DAT really hard, and shadowed and volunteered my butt off for hundreds of hours. ill be 29 by the time i get out of school and ill be competing with some 22 year old from india that didnt even have to go through undergrad. it figures that now that i get in, i read this and find out that all my hard work may not even really pay off....wow 🙁

throw in free medical care for illegal immigrants and it seems like it pays less everyday to be a (hard working) american citizen.

yes, very depressing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🙁

and everyone keeps saying, dont worry, nothing has happened, yet. YET!

....even the CONSIDERATION going into their accreditation is an insult to me and the hard work WE ALL have endured!!!!!!!!!

Oh, there is a shortage of dentists? Well, we dont need a ton from India and Mexico. They can committ to their own country and patients....I think we have enough aspiring pre-healths to fill the void continuuously.

Everyone else has said whatelse I wanted to say...

whatever.

 

[S Files]

This is already the case in medicine and it did not ruin the career. It would be nice to keep the number of dentists down, but there is a shortage of dentists and as a profession, ethically we have an obligation to strive to provide adequate care for the population we serve. QUOTE]

ahhhh....for the last time, there is no shortage, it's a DISTRIBUTION problem.

there are not enough dentists in the inner cities and in rural areas, and there are too many dentists in the suburbs and desirable areas to live in. Now if we accept more dentists, they will most likely go to the desirable places to live in. What foreigner would like to live out the American dream in North Dakota or the ghettos of D.C.???? unless the foreign dentists are mandated to practice in federally designated underserved health care centers, nothing will change. actually it'll just get worse for those wanting to practice in the 'burbs.

so in terms of ethics we need to have a system "making" it more desirable to practice in underserved areas. this can be done thru recruitment of ppl. who currently live in underserved areas into d school, loan forgiveness, tax incentives , etc. but accrediting intl schools is not the answer. anyone who agrees with me should get involved in the ADA and help them to stop screwing around w/ this plan. the ADA is what we got an complaining can only go so far, gotta get involved. off my soapbox.

 

[tamkhan]

This is already the case in medicine and it did not ruin the career. It would be nice to keep the number of dentists down, but there is a shortage of dentists and as a profession, ethically we have an obligation to strive to provide adequate care for the population we serve. QUOTE]

ahhhh....for the last time, there is no shortage, it's a DISTRIBUTION problem.

there are not enough dentists in the inner cities and in rural areas, and there are too many dentists in the suburbs and desirable areas to live in. Now if we accept more dentists, they will most likely go to the desirable places to live in. What foreigner would like to live out the American dream in North Dakota or the ghettos of D.C.???? unless the foreign dentists are mandated to practice in federally designated underserved health care centers, nothing will change. actually it'll just get worse for those wanting to practice in the 'burbs.

so in terms of ethics we need to have a system "making" it more desirable to practice in underserved areas. this can be done thru recruitment of ppl. who currently live in underserved areas into d school, loan forgiveness, tax incentives , etc. but accrediting intl schools is not the answer. anyone who agrees with me should get involved in the ADA and help them to stop screwing around w/ this plan. the ADA is what we got an complaining can only go so far, gotta get involved. off my soapbox.

Making GPR mandatory for all graduates could solve this problem to some extent. Don't know whether everyone will 'desire' it as such, but it could certainly help to solve some problems of distribution.

 

[toofshucker]

This is already the case in medicine and it did not ruin the career. It would be nice to keep the number of dentists down, but there is a shortage of dentists and as a profession, ethically we have an obligation to strive to provide adequate care for the population we serve. QUOTE]

ahhhh....for the last time, there is no shortage, it's a DISTRIBUTION problem.

there are not enough dentists in the inner cities and in rural areas, and there are too many dentists in the suburbs and desirable areas to live in. Now if we accept more dentists, they will most likely go to the desirable places to live in. What foreigner would like to live out the American dream in North Dakota or the ghettos of D.C.???? unless the foreign dentists are mandated to practice in federally designated underserved health care centers, nothing will change. actually it'll just get worse for those wanting to practice in the 'burbs.

so in terms of ethics we need to have a system "making" it more desirable to practice in underserved areas. this can be done thru recruitment of ppl. who currently live in underserved areas into d school, loan forgiveness, tax incentives , etc. but accrediting intl schools is not the answer. anyone who agrees with me should get involved in the ADA and help them to stop screwing around w/ this plan. the ADA is what we got an complaining can only go so far, gotta get involved. off my soapbox.

Thanks for taking the time to put my thoughts on paper. There are plenty of dentists in America. There aren't enough dentists willing to sacrifice their lifestyle for the good of the people. If we graduate more dentists, all we do is make it more competitive in the cities, and poor poor person in the ghetto still has the same access problems. The only thing more dentists means is less dentists driving BMW's around NYC.

 

[gryffindor]

This is already the case in medicine and it did not ruin the career. It would be nice to keep the number of dentists down, but there is a shortage of dentists and as a profession, ethically we have an obligation to strive to provide adequate care for the population we serve. At least, I assume that this line of thinking has at least in part something to do with the ADA's reasoning behind this. Regardless, it is nothing that I would overly concern myself as a predent or dental student. Dentists will still be needed, a few foreign programs are not going to saturate the U.S. with dentists and you have to believe that the ADA is working to protect the profession and our ability to bring home a good paycheck. If you really want your voice to be heard or just to learn more about this and other issues, you can always get involved with ASDA or the ADA.

I really used to believe this when I was in dental school. Now that I'm out, I'm not so sure about the ADA. First there was the problem with the DHATs getting privileges in Alaska. Although I read that ADA tried to fight it, the state of Alaska still won and now non-dentists (DHATs) will be performing irreversible dental procedures on the native populations in the remote areas because apparently no dentists want to practice in those areas so this is Alaska's solution. Now this foreign dental school accreditation nonsense is gaining steam. Everytime I read the ADA news, seems like it's always about how awesome Give Kids a Smile and similar programs are. Just like S Files said, all it would take is to offer some sweet loan forgiveness programs in the underserved areas and our own grads would be more likely to go to those places.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

One possible solution could be:

1. First the creation of a national standard Part III clinical licensing exam, as this would help prevent each individual state from doing their own thing and making their own rules. Eliminating any interstate licensure loopholes.

2. Requiring the completion of 1 year of GPR or AEGD for licensure nationwide. If you created more GPR/AEGD programs nationwide (in areas of shortage), many would complete these and then be at least slightly more likely to remain in these areas to practice when they were done.






Even "if" CODA is entertaining the idea of accrediting any international schools, the only ones they are seriously considering as far as I'm aware are Australian and New Zealand schools (of which there are a total of 6-7 dental schools which is even less than Canada). They will only accredit programs on a case by case basis and will make sure they are at or higher than current CODA standards.

The vice chair of CODA himself, Dr. James Cole had this to say on the matter, "I don't foresee any significant movement of international dentists, except in Australia and New Zealand, who have programs much like those in the United States. CODA could conceivably develop reciprocal agreements in those countries."

Current dental graduates in Australia and New Zealand are making salaries similar to Canadian and US graduates and the lifestyle is often considered to be better. So, because of all of these factors I doubt you will see a drastic influx of dentists. If anything as the US dollar continues to drop and the US experiences crazy cold weather.. you'll probably see more American dentists wishing to practice in Australia. 🙂

By the way.. the US and Canada have already accredited most of the Vet schools in Australia and New Zealand over the past 5 years.

 

[rtvj]

By "a couple of years" I did actually mean 5-8 years.
5-8 years is not short but it is so when compared to 25-30 years
of your whole dental career.

Ah...well..i thot couple meant 2!🙄

And not only India but most countries worldwide use American texts in the dental/medical/pharm schools but when it comes to the application procedures to these schools the requirement of fluency in their language is not even mentioned simply because it is a "must".
Like you had mentioned, if dentists are to speak in Indian with their patients in India, why would those Indian dental schools accept students that can't even speak indian??
IF they do accept these foreign students that can't even speak indian, wouldn't they be accepting them with the purpose of training them for patients outside of India, like the US?

Ok..but I still dont get ur point. You want schools abroad to train students based on the same methodology practised in the US??

 

[blissdental]

Ok..but I still dont get ur point. You want schools abroad to train students based on the same methodology practised in the US??

Then I guess you forgot what you wrote in your original post.
I was responding to your original post and some other post saying that it would be easy for US students to get into that Indian school.

Since students in the US can't speak any Indian, it would be hard for them to get into that school if it is required (although not mentioned outwardly) So it would be a one way flow of the Indians from India to the US.
And if they were to easily accept a number of non-indian speakers from the US, their intention would be questionable since these non indian US dentists will most likely be returning to the US
So my point is that either way, I disagree in accreditation.


And I don't know where you got the 2 from because it normally takes around 5 years to get a green card, and 5 years is still 'short enough' for people to wait.

 

[blissdental]

Ok..but I still dont get ur point. You want schools abroad to train students based on the same methodology practised in the US??

Then I guess you forgot what you wrote in your original post.
I was responding to your original post and some other post saying that it would be easy for US students to get into that Indian school.

Since students in the US can't speak any Indian, it would be hard for them to get into that school if it is required (although not mentioned outwardly) So it would be a one way flow of the Indians from India to the US.
And if they were to easily accept a number of non-indian speakers from the US, their intention would be questionable since these non indian US dentists will most likely be returning to the US
So my point is that either way, I disagree in accreditation.


And I don't know where you got the 2 from because it normally takes around 5 years to get a green card, and 5 years is still 'short enough' for people to wait.

 

[mass]

whats the status on manipal?. Will it get accredited. I heard it is in march.

 

[Shunwei]

I sure hope that ADA can fight this thing off. This globalization is precisely what destroyed biomedical research as a viable career for American Ph.D.'s. Whenever you make your jobs available to the rest of the world, it is inevitable that your wages and standards go down.

At least be glad that there is an ADA. In research science there is not even such an organization.

 

[Logjammin]

You know....this is rediculous. Very depressing. What the hell is this country coming to. Lets just let everybody in and start taking our jobs, our lives, our standard of living. There are plenty of better educated US pre-healths out there trying to become dentists. Stupid legistlators....it's like the entire world can just step in and drink our milkshakes. We are screwed, you know it will happen eventually. And some stupid ******* who is only 22 years old and barely has social skills will take my job because he is willing to be paid a little less for sub-par dentistry. Garbage.

 

[Shunwei]

You know....this is rediculous. Very depressing. What the hell is this country coming to. Lets just let everybody in and start taking our jobs, our lives, our standard of living. There are plenty of better educated US pre-healths out there trying to become dentists. Stupid legistlators....it's like the entire world can just step in and drink our milkshakes. We are screwed, you know it will happen eventually. And some stupid ******* who is only 22 years old and barely has social skills will take my job because he is willing to be paid a little less for sub-par dentistry. Garbage.

The problem with foreign nationals is not merely the supply-demand argument, although that alone to me is enough to put an end to this proposition. With foreign professionals, the ability of employers to wield the "green card" carrot-stick cannot be underestimated. There are still plenty of people say, in China or India, that harbor the "American Dream" (it should also be pointed out that those countries, by virtue of their humongous populations, can more than inundate the profession in this country even in trickles). To attain this they would be perfect targets for exploitation for those senior dentists who want to hire associates but don't want to pay fair market price. All of this sets up a condition that is ripe for exploitation and ultimately destroy the profession as a whole.

I really hope that ADA does not open this Pandora's box. There are too many things that can go wrong accrediting foreign dental programs. And once you start it with just one, you can't stop there and eventually you are going to go for more and more. If ADA thinks the dentist shortage is real and serious, just open up more schools. We have more than enough talent here in our own citizen group to grow competent dentists without having to resort to a very, very dangerous scheme that ultimately can hurt everyone. It is also the primary duty of the government to look first and foremost after its own people.

 

[gryffindor]

I really hope that ADA does not open this Pandora's box. There are too many things that can go wrong accrediting foreign dental programs. And once you start it with just one, you can't stop there and eventually you are going to go for more and more. If ADA thinks the dentist shortage is real and serious, just open up more schools. We have more than enough talent here in our own citizen group to grow competent dentists without having to resort to a very, very dangerous scheme that ultimately can hurt everyone. It is also the primary duty of the government to look first and foremost after its own people.

I would say make a GPR mandatory before opening up more schools although I'm not for the idea of a mandatory GPR. Heck, just offer a new grad 100K off their loans with a reasonable salary for each year they work in the shortage areas and people will get attracted. Opening new schools is just going to increase more dentists in saturated areas and not necessarily redistribute the grads to the needy areas. Letting in more foreign grads isn't going to redistribute them to the needy areas either unless it is tied to a green card - so send them to the Alaskan wilderness with the promise of a greencard and we solve the shortage and DHAT problems all at once.🙄

 

[rtvj]

Then I guess you forgot what you wrote in your original post.
I was responding to your original post and some other post saying that it would be easy for US students to get into that Indian school.

blissdental...i NEVER mentioned anywhere that it would be easy for US students to get into Indian schools!!! I was jus correcting ur assumptions abt education abroad.
Since students in the US can't speak any Indian, it would be hard for them to get into that school if it is required (although not mentioned outwardly) So it would be a one way flow of the Indians from India to the US.
And if they were to easily accept a number of non-indian speakers from the US, their intention would be questionable since these non indian US dentists will most likely be returning to the US
So my point is that either way, I disagree in accreditation.


And I don't know where you got the 2 from because it normally takes around 5 years to get a green card, and 5 years is still 'short enough' for people to wait.

U were the one to mention 2 or couple of yrs..read ur post again! And 5-8 yrs is the avg time to procure a GC with a lot of restrictions and limitations and rules. So its not that easy.It can also extend to 10 yrs.

Peace man peace...I am a FTD and I disagree with accreditation too...I am all for foreign students taking up a course and qualifying exam before they start working here. Similar to what the med students do..they do residency here and then r given a license to work. Someone suggested a GPR which I think is a very good idea.

 

[blissdental]

U were the one to mention 2 or couple of yrs..read ur post again! And 5-8 yrs is the avg time to procure a GC with a lot of restrictions and limitations and rules. So its not that easy.It can also extend to 10 yrs.

Don't make things up.
I did not write 2 in my prior posts because I know it certainly takes longer than 2 years to get a visa. The average is 5-8 years, but still that is short enough for those people waiting to come in.

And I personally think that when letting in foreign grad dentists, the standards should be alot stricter. Since the majority of physicians are not self-employed, I've seen many cases where foreign grad physicians have a hard time finding a job and eventually returing to their country. But for dentists it would be a totally different story since most dentists are self-employed. Yes there still is a big number of foreign grad physicians coming in, but due to this barrior of employment, the number still seems to and most likely be kept at bay.

 

[rtvj]

I live in America and I see tons of Indians here and I also have Indian friends so of course I know they learn english
But I heard from them that they also mix alot of their own language along with english

For green cards, it does take a couple of years but it doesn't mean it's impossible to get one.
The reason why most foreign dentists haven't been rushing into the US up to now is because they don't want to go through another 5-8 years of undergrad and dental school all over again..
But if they don't have to go through all of this to work as a dentist in the US why not just wait a couple of years working in their country before their green card comes out.

I am NOT making it up! U r the one with amnesia!!!!!!!

 

[BDS-DMD]

Hi everyone,

For the record, I am foreign trained dentist. I graduated from dental school in India in 2003. I subsequently went through the rigirous process of flying all the way to the US 2 times-for taking the National Boards-I and II, applying to multiple schools(Cost me a lot of money) and then had to come over again for the interviews.(Lot of money again).

All these efforts were totally worth it when I was accepted into the Advanced Standing Program at Penn in Philadelphia. I went through the junior and senior years, just like the 4 year students-took each didactic class and text with them, completed all the restorative,perio,endo and other requirements,just like the 4 year students, took and passed the NERBS, just like the 4 year students. I worked for a year and a half with my dad who is a dentist in India.Even then, I applied for and am in a GPR because I thought that I need more training ina institute to master what I was taught in the 2 years at Penn.

I feel it is totally unfair to foreign dentists like me, more than the 4 year students, if now a few foreign dental schools are accreditated by either one or more state boards or even the ADA itself.

I got a very good training in the dental school in India. How ever, the training I received at Penn was TOTALLY different from what I received back home. I am a strong believer that any one who is eligible to be licensed in this country sould HAVE to go through at least 2 years of schooling here in the US.

Amen!

 

[rtvj]

I second that! I am joining Penn too and will be shelling outta a lot of time and money for the same...that is also one of the many reasons I am against accreditation of foreign schools!

Hi everyone,

For the record, I am foreign trained dentist. I graduated from dental school in India in 2003. I subsequently went through the rigirous process of flying all the way to the US 2 times-for taking the National Boards-I and II, applying to multiple schools(Cost me a lot of money) and then had to come over again for the interviews.(Lot of money again).

All these efforts were totally worth it when I was accepted into the Advanced Standing Program at Penn in Philadelphia. I went through the junior and senior years, just like the 4 year students-took each didactic class and text with them, completed all the restorative,perio,endo and other requirements,just like the 4 year students, took and passed the NERBS, just like the 4 year students. I worked for a year and a half with my dad who is a dentist in India.Even then, I applied for and am in a GPR because I thought that I need more training ina institute to master what I was taught in the 2 years at Penn.

I feel it is totally unfair to foreign dentists like me, more than the 4 year students, if now a few foreign dental schools are accreditated by either one or more state boards or even the ADA itself.

I got a very good training in the dental school in India. How ever, the training I received at Penn was TOTALLY different from what I received back home. I am a strong believer that any one who is eligible to be licensed in this country sould HAVE to go through at least 2 years of schooling here in the US.

Amen!

 

[mass]

so is anyone going to ring ada up and ask about mainpal. I would but im routed in uk.

 

[blissdental]

I am NOT making it up! U r the one with amnesia!!!!!!!

I said "a couple" and in my following post I have expained what I meant by "a couple", which is 5-8 years. And I'm sure most of those Indians can wait 5-8 years to come and practice in the US and if this amount of time is short enough for them to wait, then I guess that does seems like "a couple" of years to most of us, including the Indians.

And amnesia?? 🙄
If you have eyes, where in that post do you see the number 2?
I'm fine with having a debate on this issue of accreditation,
but again, don't make things up.

 

[Regmata]

Couple = 2

 

[blissdental]

By "a couple" I meant "a few".
"A few" enough years for the foreign grads to wait.


I just spoke with one of the assitants in the accreditation department, and was told that Manipal hasn't been accredited yet but there is a high possiblity, and that there are 5 more schools including 2 more schools in India and Mexico that have recently applied for accreditation.

 

[mass]

I just spoke with one of the assitants in the accreditation department, and was told that Manipal hasn't been accredited yet but there is a high possiblity, and that there are 5 more schools including 2 more schools in Indian and Mexico.

finally some one with useful information. When did they say manipal may become accredited?

 

[Logjammin]

finally some one with useful information. When did they say manipal may become accredited?

I understand you are in the UK, but surely you can figure out a way to access the information you are looking for yourself. Quit asking the same question over and over....you are like a nagging virus. I have seen you post the same question repeatedly in other threads, including this one.

And for the record, I hope Manipal never gets accredited.

 

[blissdental]

finally some one with useful information. When did they say manipal may become accredited?

She said it would be better to contact the head of accreditation for that info but I couldn't reach him because he's not in his office today. But I'm not sure if he would release the precise date because it isn't confirmed yet.
What shocked me more than Manipal, is the other 5 schools that have recently applied for accreditation. They've seen it happen in La Salle in Leon so now they're in line.

 

[rtvj]

Couple = 2

👍

 

[blissdental]

👍

I guess somebody would have to expand their vocab because "a couple" has quite a few meanings.
👎

 

[Regmata]

Or maybe you should solidify your own vocabulary knowledge. It seems that a little fine tuning is necessary. Here, let me help you out. The term "a couple" traditionally refers to a pair, or 2 of something. Sure, you could use it for another small number larger than 2, but in that case, it would be more appropriate to use the term "a few." Personally, I think that using "a couple" to describe the number 5 is inappropriate, let alone using it to describe 8.

Hope that helps

 

[NileBDS]

Hi everyone,

For the record, I am foreign trained dentist. I graduated from dental school in India in 2003. I subsequently went through the rigirous process of flying all the way to the US 2 times-for taking the National Boards-I and II, applying to multiple schools(Cost me a lot of money) and then had to come over again for the interviews.(Lot of money again).

All these efforts were totally worth it when I was accepted into the Advanced Standing Program at Penn in Philadelphia. I went through the junior and senior years, just like the 4 year students-took each didactic class and text with them, completed all the restorative,perio,endo and other requirements,just like the 4 year students, took and passed the NERBS, just like the 4 year students. I worked for a year and a half with my dad who is a dentist in India.Even then, I applied for and am in a GPR because I thought that I need more training ina institute to master what I was taught in the 2 years at Penn.

I feel it is totally unfair to foreign dentists like me, more than the 4 year students, if now a few foreign dental schools are accreditated by either one or more state boards or even the ADA itself.

I got a very good training in the dental school in India. How ever, the training I received at Penn was TOTALLY different from what I received back home. I am a strong believer that any one who is eligible to be licensed in this country sould HAVE to go through at least 2 years of schooling here in the US.

Amen!

I agree. +1

To answer the OP's question, at this point in time, yes, I think you and us should be very worried about even considering foreign dental schools for accreditation. I don't care if it is Australia, India or Brazil. There is just no way to settle for such agreements without compromise.

The one and only solution for designated shortage areas is loan repayment incentives, not more dentists ! It works for the Air force ...

I also think the CDA (California Dental Association) did in fact compromise itself by accrediting that school in Mexico. Maybe it was in part due to the immediate dire need for Spanish speaking dental professionals. But would it not be easier for California schools to integrate Spanish into their curriculum's or just recruit more bilingual pre-dents ?

How would these foreign school ADCOMs feel if we told them that from now on, US pre-dents would be competing with their own applicants for admission seats in their foreign dental schools ?

I'll tell you this, there are plenty of overqualified pre-dentals than dental school admissions can handle, and by ignoring that fact and accrediting schools overseas, not only are we turning our backs on them, but we would also be taking the standard of our whole profession into a steep nose dive.

 

[blissdental]

Or maybe you should solidify your own vocabulary knowledge. It seems that a little fine tuning is necessary. Here, let me help you out. The term "a couple" traditionally refers to a pair, or 2 of something. Sure, you could use it for another small number larger than 2, but in that case, it would be more appropriate to use the term "a few." Personally, I think that using "a couple" to describe the number 5 is inappropriate, let alone using it to describe 8.

Hope that helps

Yes, "traditionally".

Well look up "a couple of" or "a few" up to date dictionaries and you'll see that it actually holds the meaning of "a few", the term you had referred to.
In addition, I had also made a reclarification in my following posts to resolve any misunderstandings.

 

[Regmata]

Dude, come on...funny as it is, I did just take a peak to re-clarify in an "up to date" dictionary, I was right on.

Good for you and your clarification in a following post, I don't even know what you guys are arguing about. I am just letting you know that "a couple" is more properly used when referring to two of something.

 

[blissdental]

And also just FYI It is next to impossible to start ur own private practice in the US unless u have a GC or US citizenship and getting a GC here is a looooong and exhausting process!

My main point is that I disagree on your point that it is next to impossible for a manipal or whatever foreign grad to start their own private practice.
"A couple", "a few", or however you say it, we both know it takes an average of 5-8 years to get a green card or citizenship, but I disagree that this will hinder those grads from foreign accredited schools from practicing in the US.
And also, if it is nearly impossible for these foreign grads to practice in the US, why would they apply for accreditation in the first place?

Speaking with a friend of mine from India who has graduated from a US dental school, I heard that accreditation of dental schools like manipal can have a great impact in the long run. He said due to the nature of the Indians, many of the families, relatives, and friends would be willing to sponsor green cards for those dentists.
It's not just with India, but the problem rises when if accredatation is made in countries where the difference in exchange rate is huge and there is saturation of dentists.

 

[Doctor Dj]

i just got accepted to dental school...this is the most depressing thing ive read. i went through a tough 4 years in undergrad to get a biochemistry degree and studied for the DAT really hard, and shadowed and volunteered my butt off for hundreds of hours. ill be 29 by the time i get out of school and ill be competing with some 22 year old from india that didnt even have to go through undergrad. it figures that now that i get in, i read this and find out that all my hard work may not even really pay off....wow 🙁

throw in free medical care for illegal immigrants and it seems like it pays less everyday to be a (hard working) american citizen.

I can tell you this there are many roads to Rome . 🙂


This forum cracks me up

 

[gyzeus]

I can tell you this there are many roads to Rome . 🙂

I'm not quite understanding your post..
Do you mean it doesn't really matter even if foreign dental schools are accredited?

 

[mass]

why cant india dental schools be accredited anyway, the quality of teaching there is higher than in us.

 

[Doctor Dj]

I'm not quite understanding your post..
Do you mean it doesn't really matter even if foreign dental schools are accredited?

No what I mean is that there are many paths to get where you want to get.🙂


But I also think it is very arrogant to think that there are only good schools in US and that they don't match up with the schools in the rest of the world , when in reality, anywhere you go there will be good and bad schools whether is in U.S.A. , China , Hungary , Egypt etc etc.

 

[Logjammin]

why cant india dental schools be accredited anyway, the quality of teaching there is higher than in us.

I am not sure where you get your information from, but this is complete mis-information. Find me a reputable source that supports your statement. Otherwise, what you just said came directly out of your ***.

 

[blissdental]

Those foreign dental schools could be better or not than the US schools.
But I don't think it's solely the level of education of those schools that is the problem.
Even if you were a Harvard dental grad, that doesn't guarantee that you could just practice anywhere in the world.
And even if Harvard dental school was to apply for accreditation in other countries, that doesn't guarantee an accreditation even if it is one of the best schools worldwide. And if accreditation is made in those foreign countries, that would be under the circumstances that the US dental market is doing ok, since they wouldn't want the Harvard and foreign grad dentists to pour into their country because the market is not good and the US is saturated with dentists.
In many countries where dentistry is not socialized or minimally socialized and the profit is pretty good, there is a strong opposition within the dental and medical associations in those countries toward accreditation and open market, especially when the dental market of the other country is not so good.

Dentistry in the US has never been so prosperous and the rising competition for seats in dental schools reflects this
As it only took around 20-30 years for it to reach this stage, it may as well head downhill within the next couple of decades due to an acculmulation of multiple factors. It's happened in countires such as Japan where dentists once used to be the best jobs but no longer is due to saturation.

I know some of the posts here including the ones that I've posted may sound a bit extreme, but personally I think it's better to be precautious than regretting and best to maintain this social and economical status when we have it.

 

[mass]

I am not sure where you get your information from, but this is complete mis-information. Find me a reputable source that supports your statement. Otherwise, what you just said came directly out of your ***.

shut the **** up dude. In india they teach you and help you. In schools in us and uk its the usual ****e of learn yourself.

 

[tamkhan]

The quality of dental education in South Asia is great, but definitely not on par with US and UK. There aren't enough resources and facilities in South Asia.

 

[Doctor Dj]

I think it's better to be precautious than regretting and best to maintain this social and economical status when we have it.

A lot of people like keeping the good ol' boys status , I've read so much nonsense in this forum like how the glorious days of dentistry are gone and blah blah blah.

Nobody at any point has said anything about how will this benefit the foreign community of patients that there is in USA , foreign patients feel more comfortable explaining whatever problem they have in their native language to the dentist. Doesn't that sound like a good alternative for a patient???? 😕


Do you know of any career in the states that went down the drain for a similar reason? 😕

By stating that anybody could become a dentist in US is just absurd , ADA together with the state dental board ask for certain requirements that not just anybody can accomplish. Those same requirements are asked to the foreign dentist's . Do people here feel like those requirements are a piece of cake because then you guys should tell all your patients "it is really easy to be a dentist here in US".

The ADA the institution that brought dentistry in US to where it is now , they wouldn't make a decision just to put in jeopardy our profession. thumbs up to ADA for opening their doors to foreign schools 👍👍