shoving and pushing and such..

[epidural man]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Quick question or two....

How come that thread "when push comes to shove.." is locked?

What rules did BladeMD violate (as claimed by cremesickle)?

What is this private discussion forum that was alluded to?

 

[amyl]

awhile ago it was decided to move the discussion of the political fight vs. militant CRNAs claiming to be equal to docs, fighting for independent practice rights to the private forum - thus Blade is not supposed to discuss this issue in the public forum. the private forum is for anesthesiologists, residents and medical students dedicated to anesthesiology. basically, this is studentDOCTOR.net but it is occasionally over run with nurses. political debates over this topic got out of hand with many ad hominem attacks so they moved it to the private forum. if you are an anesthesiologist, resident or medical student pursuing anesthesiology drop toughlife or blade a note and they will give you access to the private forum.

 

[badgas]

awhile ago it was decided to move the discussion of the political fight vs. militant CRNAs claiming to be equal to docs, fighting for independent practice rights to the private forum - thus Blade is not supposed to discuss this issue in the public forum. the private forum is for anesthesiologists, residents and medical students dedicated to anesthesiology. basically, this is studentDOCTOR.net but it is occasionally over run with nurses. political debates over this topic got out of hand with many ad hominem attacks so they moved it to the private forum. if you are an anesthesiologist, resident or medical student pursuing anesthesiology drop toughlife or blade a note and they will give you access to the private forum.

You need an ASA number. Your typical med student considering anesthesiology does not have one. This is the problem with eliminating all political talk on the public forum. We should at least have a sticky and should be able to post the types of videos that were posted yesterday as they occur.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

You need an ASA number. Your typical med student considering anesthesiology does not have one. This is the problem with eliminating all political talk on the public forum. We should at least have a sticky and should be able to post the types of videos that were posted yesterday as they occur.

How does a med student go about getting an ASA number?

 

[badgas]

How does a med student go about getting an ASA number?

Go to the ASA website, print out the forms, send in $10 and wait many weeks to get a number. It is not a quick and easy route to join the private forum for a med student.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

Go to the ASA website, print out the forms, send in $10 and wait many weeks to get a number. It is not a quick and easy route to join the private forum for a med student.

Looks like the ASA requires the signature of the department chair. Bogus.

 

[badgas]

Jet,

Is it possible to have a "politics" subforum similar to "anesthesiology positions" at the top of the page? That way the whole forum wouldn't be cluttered with political posts and those who want to ignore the issues can choose to do so. I've been waiting a long time for my ASA # and the juice isn't really worth the squeeze for most med students who are weighing their options. Just a thought.

 

[Gern Blansten]

Looks like the ASA requires the signature of the department chair. Bogus.

It is not really bogus. It is an incentive to get medical students interested in anesthesiology for a nominal fee. For $10, you get all of the benefits of ASA membership that cost physicians who have completed training several hundred dollars per year. In order to keep it legitimate, I am certain that they need some verification that you are who you say you are. Your chairman should have no problem signing it for you and would probably spot you the $10 charge out of departmental funds since you are a "poor med student." It wasn't that long ago and I recall that $10 meant a lot more to me then than it does now. If your school does not have a chairman of anesthesiology, I am sure there is a way to get around that, I just don't know off hand what it might be. It is a great deal and I encourage you to join. You will also receive a subscription to Anesthesiology as well as the newsletter. Well worth the $10 per year. Good luck.

 

[jetproppilot]

Jet,

Is it possible to have a "politics" subforum similar to "anesthesiology positions" at the top of the page? That way the whole forum wouldn't be cluttered with political posts and those who want to ignore the issues can choose to do so. I've been waiting a long time for my ASA # and the juice isn't really worth the squeeze for most med students who are weighing their options. Just a thought.

Interesting idea.

Lemme see what the other moderators think.

Thanks.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Looks like the ASA requires the signature of the department chair. Bogus.

I just called the chair's secretary and gave her the form when I was in the neighborhood. No sweat.

A few weeks later, I get a huge box containing the past 6 months of Anesthesiology. They probably spent my $10 just to mail the thing.

 

[Don8455]

When I was a med student the department of anesthesia covered my $10. Give your department a call.

And I agree we need to reach a happy medium concerning discussion of politics on this board. I agree Blade can be a little overbearing with his gazillion posts, but the evidence is overwhelmingly in his favor. Nurses ARE claiming equality at the national level and we shouldn't just ignore it and hope it goes away.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

I just called the chair's secretary and gave her the form when I was in the neighborhood. No sweat.

A few weeks later, I get a huge box containing the past 6 months of Anesthesiology. They probably spent my $10 just to mail the thing.

Good call LJ.

 

[toughlife]

That they really want you out of the game. Come on peeps, let's be realistic and admit we have a problem.

I hope the naysayers here admit Blade has a point and has proven you wrong.

 

[pillowhead]

Looks like the ASA requires the signature of the department chair. Bogus.

I just sent in my application without the signature. No problems.

 

[fakin' the funk]

Go to the ASA website, print out the forms, send in $10 and wait many weeks to get a number. It is not a quick and easy route to join the private forum for a med student.

Who cares? The private forum is not as useful as you think it is. It's mostly just BLADEMDA carrying on conversations with himself about the same 2 or 3 ideas over and over.

 

[badgas]

Who cares? The private forum is not as useful as you think it is. It's mostly just BLADEMDA carrying on conversations with himself about the same 2 or 3 ideas over and over.

I didn't care last year at all. I began caring when I ran into my first militant CRNA on a rotation who vented to me like I was a CRNA student. You wouldn't believe the things that came out of his mouth, along with several others. One of many eye openers you may run into. If you chose to ignore the issues then so be it. That is why we need a politics subforum. I think Blade is doing a great service but it needs to be kept in the appropriate threads.

 

[core0]

I didn't care last year at all. I began caring when I ran into my first militant CRNA on a rotation who vented to me like I was a CRNA student. You wouldn't believe the things that came out of his mouth, along with several others. One of many eye openers you may run into. If you chose to ignore the issues then so be it. That is why we need a politics subforum. I think Blade is doing a great service but it needs to be kept in the appropriate threads.

There are also those of us who are interested but are not in anesthesia. I would support a sub forum. If you don't want to participate you don't even have to look at it.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[epidural man]

awhile ago it was decided to move the discussion of the political fight vs. militant CRNAs claiming to be equal to docs, fighting for independent practice rights to the private forum - thus Blade is not supposed to discuss this issue in the public forum. the private forum is for anesthesiologists, residents and medical students dedicated to anesthesiology. basically, this is studentDOCTOR.net but it is occasionally over run with nurses. political debates over this topic got out of hand with many ad hominem attacks so they moved it to the private forum. if you are an anesthesiologist, resident or medical student pursuing anesthesiology drop toughlife or blade a note and they will give you access to the private forum.

Help me understand this...the moderators didn't like a discussion with two sides on a discussion board about a certain topic, so they asked people to move the debate to a private forum where only a select few (one side of the debate) could join? Isn't that like asking for a debate on the war in Iraq but only asking democrats to talk? It just seems strange.

I guess I don't get why some wouldn't welcome the debate in an open forum. The whole point of "moderation" is to make sure the discussion stays on task, people play fair, etc. If people deviated from this, then moderators step in and "moderate." Making half the discussers leave seems odd.

I mean...come on....this is a forum where everyone is anonomous (probably most), where anyone can say anything and pretend to be whatever they want with very little reality or very little credibility to much of it. It is all opinion. It amazes me that people get so vested in the responses and posts. I don't know who you are, you don't know who I am. I could have stayed at a Holiday INN last night, etc. That is what makes it fun.

 

[epidural man]

this is studentDOCTOR.net but it is occasionally over run with nurses. political debates over this topic got out of hand with many ad hominem attacks so they moved it to the private forum.

I mean, let's face it. If you made a horrible, horrible decision in your life and became a nurse, you too would probably do everything in your power to get out of that gig.

Thanks for the answers to my questions.

 

[core0]

Help me understand this...the moderators didn't like a discussion with two sides on a discussion board about a certain topic, so they asked people to move the debate to a private forum where only a select few (one side of the debate) could join? Isn't that like asking for a debate on the war in Iraq but only asking democrats to talk? It just seems strange.

I guess I don't get why some wouldn't welcome the debate in an open forum. The whole point of "moderation" is to make sure the discussion stays on task, people play fair, etc. If people deviated from this, then moderators step in and "moderate." Making half the discussers leave seems odd.

I mean...come on....this is a forum where everyone is anonomous (probably most), where anyone can say anything and pretend to be whatever they want with very little reality or very little credibility to much of it. It is all opinion. It amazes me that people get so vested in the responses and posts. I don't know who you are, you don't know who I am. I could have stayed at a Holiday INN last night, etc. That is what makes it fun.

The problem was that a discussion board on anesthesia was being entirely devoted to CRNA vs. Anesthesiologist. The moderators preferred it to be about the discussion of anesthesia practice.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[Taurus]

I support a political subforum too.

Put at the top, "Enter at your own risk!"

 

[jetproppilot]

Help me understand this...the moderators didn't like a discussion with two sides on a discussion board about a certain topic, so they asked people to move the debate to a private forum where only a select few (one side of the debate) could join? Isn't that like asking for a debate on the war in Iraq but only asking democrats to talk? It just seems strange.

I guess I don't get why some wouldn't welcome the debate in an open forum. The whole point of "moderation" is to make sure the discussion stays on task, people play fair, etc. If people deviated from this, then moderators step in and "moderate." Making half the discussers leave seems odd.

I mean...come on....this is a forum where everyone is anonomous (probably most), where anyone can say anything and pretend to be whatever they want with very little reality or very little credibility to much of it. It is all opinion. It amazes me that people get so vested in the responses and posts. I don't know who you are, you don't know who I am. I could have stayed at a Holiday INN last night, etc. That is what makes it fun.

You're coming in late in the game and making assumptions that simply arent true.

So lemme recap for you:

For the last few years there seemed to be a great balance of anesthesia topics, reality-TV posts about what it is like to be an anesthesiologist, what our job is like, what we do on our off time, clinical scenerios, partner-conflict scenerios, what to look for in your first contract, a resident's life, a residents victories and defeats, hobbies, colleague non-anesthesia banter/ribbing, etc etc etc.

And yes, the political stuff was covered too.

Over the last year or so all that changed. The political posts overtook the forum, at the forums expense. Just about every thread was littered with MD vs CRNA stuff. Most threads deteriorated into fights. We endured militant CRNA posters posting their propeganda.

As a result of this (unwanted) transition many prolific, knowledgable posters stopped posting here. Many complaints about the shift-to-an-all-political-site were sent to moderators.

Our goal as moderators is to maintain interest in this forum....an interest that had wained secondary to radical political influence.

Lemme make another thing very clear, since some of the radical posters here have made erroneous accusations:

Noy, me, Venty et al are not "hiding" things from the public forum. We are not the enemy. We are well aware of the trials and tribulations of the fight with mid levels.

But there has to be a balance, and the balance was lost.

If you don't believe me, please email respected, long-time posters on this forum. UT Southwestern. SDN1977. Trinityalumnus. JWK.

SOOO, the reason you don't "get it", epiduralman, is because you just got here.

The political subforum sounds like a good idea.

This is a work in progress, and the political subforum sounds like a very sound idea.

The last sentence in your post, Epidural, contains a reference to the "fun" of posting here.

I agree.

But the fun was lost because of the overwhelming political banter.

 

[Noyac]

Help me understand this...the moderators didn't like a discussion with two sides on a discussion board about a certain topic, so they asked people to move the debate to a private forum where only a select few (one side of the debate) could join? Isn't that like asking for a debate on the war in Iraq but only asking democrats to talk? It just seems strange.

I guess I don't get why some wouldn't welcome the debate in an open forum. The whole point of "moderation" is to make sure the discussion stays on task, people play fair, etc. If people deviated from this, then moderators step in and "moderate." Making half the discussers leave seems odd.

I mean...come on....this is a forum where everyone is anonomous (probably most), where anyone can say anything and pretend to be whatever they want with very little reality or very little credibility to much of it. It is all opinion. It amazes me that people get so vested in the responses and posts. I don't know who you are, you don't know who I am. I could have stayed at a Holiday INN last night, etc. That is what makes it fun.

Do a search, get your facts straight, then make comments.

 

[Taurus]

I would like to take the idea of a political subforum one step further. Can the mods ask Lee Burnett to create a new forum dedicated to political issues affecting physicians, ie, scope expansion by the CRNA's, DNP's, optometrists? Everyone in medicine should be aware of these issues.

 

[jetproppilot]

I would like to take the idea of a political subforum one step further. Can the mods ask Lee Burnett to create a new forum dedicated to political issues affecting physicians, ie, scope expansion by the CRNA's, DNP's, optometrists? Everyone in medicine should be aware of these issues.

Thats probably the best idea I've heard to date.

👍

 

[deleted87716]

I would like to take the idea of a political subforum one step further. Can the mods ask Lee Burnett to create a new forum dedicated to political issues affecting physicians, ie, scope expansion by the CRNA's, DNP's, optometrists? Everyone in medicine should be aware of these issues.

We already have one...it's called "Topics in Healthcare." That would be a great place for this type of discussion.

 

[Pharm Life]

awhile ago it was decided to move the discussion of the political fight vs. militant CRNAs claiming to be equal to docs, fighting for independent practice rights to the private forum - thus Blade is not supposed to discuss this issue in the public forum. the private forum is for anesthesiologists, residents and medical students dedicated to anesthesiology. basically, this is studentDOCTOR.net but it is occasionally over run with nurses. political debates over this topic got out of hand with many ad hominem attacks so they moved it to the private forum. if you are an anesthesiologist, resident or medical student pursuing anesthesiology drop toughlife or blade a note and they will give you access to the private forum.

I am a med student who got an ASA membership as part of my FAER fellowship. (And it also came with a ton of old journals like someone else already mentioned!) I tried to apply to join the private forum through my user cp. Is that not how you do it? I never heard anything back, so I'm just wondering what I should do now. PM someone with my ASA number? I'd appreciate it if any of you could help me out.

 

[toughlife]

I am a med student who got an ASA membership as part of my FAER fellowship. (And it also came with a ton of old journals like someone else already mentioned!) I tried to apply to join the private forum through my user cp. Is that not how you do it? I never heard anything back, so I'm just wondering what I should do now. PM someone with my ASA number? I'd appreciate it if any of you could help me out.

Send your ASA membership #, name, phone number and state of residence on file with the ASA.

 

[mwbeah]

I read the TOS in full and your private forum actually may be illegal since this site takes money. Because if I give money to this site then I shouldn't be blocked from all its resources.......and looking through the SDN site this seems to be the only "private" forum (wonder why that is.....)

"(m) use The Student Doctor Network in a manner that adversely affects the availability of its resources to other Users"

Just FYI

 

[toughlife]

I read the TOS in full and your private forum actually may be illegal since this site takes money. Because if I give money to this site then I shouldn't be blocked from all its resources.......and looking through the SDN site this seems to be the only "private" forum (wonder why that is.....)

"(m) use The Student Doctor Network in a manner that adversely affects the availability of its resources to other Users"

Just FYI

Send your ASA membership #, name, phone number and state of residence on file with the ASA and you'll be granted access.

 

[mwbeah]

Send your ASA membership #, name, phone number and state of residence on file with the ASA and you'll be granted access.

Hmmm this is getting better and better this site is run by The Coastal Research Group.......

"The Coastal Research Group is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the advancement of family and community medicine"

Private political forums on a charitable website that may in fact be an illegal forum......and it is the only one on SDN...




SDN TOS

Sponsorships

We accept sponsorships and underwriting as a means to support the operating costs of the SDN. However, sponsors do not have any oversight or input on the content of SDN. SDN does not endorse, approve or review individual sponsors or their products or services.

No individual guest information is shared with sponsors.

Organizational Relationships

SDN has regular contact with many organizations within the medical education community. However, SDN serves as an independent site and has no direct relationship with any school, professional organization, or company, other than its parent organization, The Coastal Research Group, a 501(c)(3) charitable educational organization.

No individual member information is shared with other organizations.

Ownership

SDN is part of a nonprofit charitable organization, The Coastal Research Group. As such, it does not have any individual owners or shareholders. However, no director or board member of CRG or SDN reports a conflict of interest which impacts the operations or content of SDN.




Someone could really push this issue of the private forum.........................................

 

[mwbeah]

"On April 28, 2004, the IRS released guidance on what charities are and are not allowed to do in relation to political campaigns. Public charities are absolutely prohibited from supporting or opposing particular candidates for office. Charities can encourage people to vote or sponsor political debates or educational forums, as long as those activities are offered in a bipartisan manner."

This is definitely applicable in this instance.

 

[CremeSickle]

There yah go.

I dont see the point of another open forum filled with political agendas. It will only become exactly what this one was a month orso ago. This is what i see happening:

• Blademda spouting out propaganda in a sermon which repeats itself like a broken record.
• Toughlife telling anyone who dosent agree they are a CRNA or a highly intelligent "shut up".
• Supposed CRNAs spouting their own brand of propoganda trying to incite the members (remember, the last time that happened it was blademda/ethermd pretending he was one).
• A bunch of threads with "anesthesia is medicine NO anesthesia is nursing" BS going round in a circle.
• A bunch of proof-free people saying how unsafe CRNAs are and how they dont want them practicing independently, unless of course its in Podunk USA and the pay is below 250K... then its OK (read: hypocritical).

None of it serves any purpose. The ASA is the national organization and each of you has state chapters, if you actually gave a S*it you would be attending the meetings and getting involved and showing your support for your national organization. Reading it here on a random public forum where less than 10% (if that) of Anesthesiologists & residents come is not effective and never will be.

Moreover it is clear specific people destroy any meaningful political discussion with their own agendas. If you want to have political discussions and actually learn something here it should involve factual information without personal agenda and not shun the other side of the opinion when its presented. With such a hostile atmosphere where the rules are applied to everyone BUT people like blademda the only CRNAs that will post are the militant ones (which appear to be in the minority from my perspective).

Yes, I am pro-CRNA and anti-AA. No im not a CRNA. However, it seems to me that whenever i present the opposing opinion (which BTW is the mainstream feeling in anesthesiology) I get called names, threatened (which is why my PM function is turned off) and i just give up. These discussions are always dominated by a few people who accept no other opinions but their own. A real "discussion" isnt one sided and isnt allowed to be so.

So, either this is an open forum where mods make rules which they apply fairly to everyone (Doctors AND others) or it isnt. Whatever the case, the "political" private forum is the place for anesthesiology related politics for those who are qualified (or care to) join it. Go there and you can read the same sermon by ethermd/blademda over and over again (if your comfortable giving your real name, address and asa # to these people which im not at all).

We already have one...it's called "Topics in Healthcare." That would be a great place for this type of discussion.

 

[toughlife]

There yah go.

I dont see the point of another open forum filled with political agendas. It will only become exactly what this one was a month orso ago. This is what i see happening:

• Blademda spouting out propaganda in a sermon which repeats itself like a broken record.
• Toughlife telling anyone who dosent agree they are a CRNA or a highly intelligent "shut up".
• Supposed CRNAs spouting their own brand of propoganda trying to incite the members (remember, the last time that happened it was blademda/ethermd pretending he was one).
• A bunch of threads with "anesthesia is medicine NO anesthesia is nursing" BS going round in a circle.
• A bunch of proof-free people saying how unsafe CRNAs are and how they dont want them practicing independently, unless of course its in Podunk USA and the pay is below 250K... then its OK (read: hypocritical).

None of it serves any purpose. The ASA is the national organization and each of you has state chapters, if you actually gave a S*it you would be attending the meetings and getting involved and showing your support for your national organization. Reading it here on a random public forum where less than 10% (if that) of Anesthesiologists & residents come is not effective and never will be.

Moreover it is clear specific people destroy any meaningful political discussion with their own agendas. If you want to have political discussions and actually learn something here it should involve factual information without personal agenda and not shun the other side of the opinion when its presented. With such a hostile atmosphere where the rules are applied to everyone BUT people like blademda the only CRNAs that will post are the militant ones (which appear to be in the minority from my perspective).

Yes, I am pro-CRNA and anti-AA. No im not a CRNA. However, it seems to me that whenever i present the opposing opinion (which BTW is the mainstream feeling in anesthesiology) I get called names, threatened (which is why my PM function is turned off) and i just give up. These discussions are always dominated by a few people who accept no other opinions but their own. A real "discussion" isnt one sided and isnt allowed to be so.

So, either this is an open forum where mods make rules which they apply fairly to everyone (Doctors AND others) or it isnt. Whatever the case, the "political" private forum is the place for anesthesiology related politics for those who are qualified (or care to) join it. Go there and you can read the same sermon by ethermd/blademda over and over again (if your comfortable giving your real name, address and asa # to these people which im not at all).

Well if they let us post in the public forum, we would be happy to.

 

[toughlife]

There yah go.

I dont see the point of another open forum filled with political agendas. It will only become exactly what this one was a month orso ago. This is what i see happening:

• Blademda spouting out propaganda in a sermon which repeats itself like a broken record.
• Toughlife telling anyone who dosent agree they are a CRNA or a highly intelligent "shut up".
• Supposed CRNAs spouting their own brand of propoganda trying to incite the members (remember, the last time that happened it was blademda/ethermd pretending he was one).
• A bunch of threads with "anesthesia is medicine NO anesthesia is nursing" BS going round in a circle.
• A bunch of proof-free people saying how unsafe CRNAs are and how they dont want them practicing independently, unless of course its in Podunk USA and the pay is below 250K... then its OK (read: hypocritical).

None of it serves any purpose. The ASA is the national organization and each of you has state chapters, if you actually gave a S*it you would be attending the meetings and getting involved and showing your support for your national organization. Reading it here on a random public forum where less than 10% (if that) of Anesthesiologists & residents come is not effective and never will be.

Moreover it is clear specific people destroy any meaningful political discussion with their own agendas. If you want to have political discussions and actually learn something here it should involve factual information without personal agenda and not shun the other side of the opinion when its presented. With such a hostile atmosphere where the rules are applied to everyone BUT people like blademda the only CRNAs that will post are the militant ones (which appear to be in the minority from my perspective).

Yes, I am pro-CRNA and anti-AA. No im not a CRNA. However, it seems to me that whenever i present the opposing opinion (which BTW is the mainstream feeling in anesthesiology) I get called names, threatened (which is why my PM function is turned off) and i just give up. These discussions are always dominated by a few people who accept no other opinions but their own. A real "discussion" isnt one sided and isnt allowed to be so.

So, either this is an open forum where mods make rules which they apply fairly to everyone (Doctors AND others) or it isnt. Whatever the case, the "political" private forum is the place for anesthesiology related politics for those who are qualified (or care to) join it. Go there and you can read the same sermon by ethermd/blademda over and over again (if your comfortable giving your real name, address and asa # to these people which im not at all).

Spoken like a true CRNA 😀

 

[badgas]

There yah go.

I dont see the point of another open forum filled with political agendas. It will only become exactly what this one was a month orso ago. This is what i see happening:

• Blademda spouting out propaganda in a sermon which repeats itself like a broken record.
• Toughlife telling anyone who dosent agree they are a CRNA or a highly intelligent "shut up".
• Supposed CRNAs spouting their own brand of propoganda trying to incite the members (remember, the last time that happened it was blademda/ethermd pretending he was one).
• A bunch of threads with "anesthesia is medicine NO anesthesia is nursing" BS going round in a circle.
• A bunch of proof-free people saying how unsafe CRNAs are and how they dont want them practicing independently, unless of course its in Podunk USA and the pay is below 250K... then its OK (read: hypocritical).

None of it serves any purpose. The ASA is the national organization and each of you has state chapters, if you actually gave a S*it you would be attending the meetings and getting involved and showing your support for your national organization. Reading it here on a random public forum where less than 10% (if that) of Anesthesiologists & residents come is not effective and never will be.

Moreover it is clear specific people destroy any meaningful political discussion with their own agendas. If you want to have political discussions and actually learn something here it should involve factual information without personal agenda and not shun the other side of the opinion when its presented. With such a hostile atmosphere where the rules are applied to everyone BUT people like blademda the only CRNAs that will post are the militant ones (which appear to be in the minority from my perspective).

Yes, I am pro-CRNA and anti-AA. No im not a CRNA. However, it seems to me that whenever i present the opposing opinion (which BTW is the mainstream feeling in anesthesiology) I get called names, threatened (which is why my PM function is turned off) and i just give up. These discussions are always dominated by a few people who accept no other opinions but their own. A real "discussion" isnt one sided and isnt allowed to be so.

So, either this is an open forum where mods make rules which they apply fairly to everyone (Doctors AND others) or it isnt. Whatever the case, the "political" private forum is the place for anesthesiology related politics for those who are qualified (or care to) join it. Go there and you can read the same sermon by ethermd/blademda over and over again (if your comfortable giving your real name, address and asa # to these people which im not at all).

That's the beauty of a free forum... if you don't want to read it, then don't click on it.

 

[Taurus]

and looking through the SDN site this seems to be the only "private" forum (wonder why that is.....)

No Sherlock, this is not the only private forum on SDN. 🙄

Look under "Group memberships" when you click on the 'User CP' page and you'll see a bunch of them. Such as:

ACFAS
For members of American College of Foot and Ankle Surgeons or a recongized student chapter.

Neonatology Group
To enhance discussion about neonatology as a career and about careers involving neonatal intensive care among attendings, fellows, residents, medical students and premeds.

etc, etc, etc

Your argument doesn't hold legal weight either. A private organization can establish its own rules. If I recall correctly, the Supreme Court ruled that the Boy Scouts can make the rule that it doesn't want homosexuals among its members. People are free to boycott the Boy Scouts all they want. You are more than welcome to leave Student DOCTOR Network. 🙄

 

[jetproppilot]

"On April 28, 2004, the IRS released guidance on what charities are and are not allowed to do in relation to political campaigns. Public charities are absolutely prohibited from supporting or opposing particular candidates for office. Charities can encourage people to vote or sponsor political debates or educational forums, as long as those activities are offered in a bipartisan manner."

This is definitely applicable in this instance.

So, Slim,

Do you have anything to add to this forum other than antagonistic political posts?

Do you have ANY
objective here besides your obvious antagonism of the pre-meds, med students, residents, and attendings that stop by here??

Jet shoulders the thirty-ought-six, unholsters the Glock forty-five, and ratchets a round into the barrel.

Cuz if not, your screenname is primed for an eternal dirtbath.

 

[Taurus]

There yah go.

I dont see the point of another open forum filled with political agendas. It will only become exactly what this one was a month orso ago. This is what i see happening:

• Blademda spouting out propaganda in a sermon which repeats itself like a broken record.
• Toughlife telling anyone who dosent agree they are a CRNA or a highly intelligent "shut up".
• Supposed CRNAs spouting their own brand of propoganda trying to incite the members (remember, the last time that happened it was blademda/ethermd pretending he was one).
• A bunch of threads with "anesthesia is medicine NO anesthesia is nursing" BS going round in a circle.
• A bunch of proof-free people saying how unsafe CRNAs are and how they dont want them practicing independently, unless of course its in Podunk USA and the pay is below 250K... then its OK (read: hypocritical).

None of it serves any purpose. The ASA is the national organization and each of you has state chapters, if you actually gave a S*it you would be attending the meetings and getting involved and showing your support for your national organization. Reading it here on a random public forum where less than 10% (if that) of Anesthesiologists & residents come is not effective and never will be.

Moreover it is clear specific people destroy any meaningful political discussion with their own agendas. If you want to have political discussions and actually learn something here it should involve factual information without personal agenda and not shun the other side of the opinion when its presented. With such a hostile atmosphere where the rules are applied to everyone BUT people like blademda the only CRNAs that will post are the militant ones (which appear to be in the minority from my perspective).

Yes, I am pro-CRNA and anti-AA. No im not a CRNA. However, it seems to me that whenever i present the opposing opinion (which BTW is the mainstream feeling in anesthesiology) I get called names, threatened (which is why my PM function is turned off) and i just give up. These discussions are always dominated by a few people who accept no other opinions but their own. A real "discussion" isnt one sided and isnt allowed to be so.

So, either this is an open forum where mods make rules which they apply fairly to everyone (Doctors AND others) or it isnt. Whatever the case, the "political" private forum is the place for anesthesiology related politics for those who are qualified (or care to) join it. Go there and you can read the same sermon by ethermd/blademda over and over again (if your comfortable giving your real name, address and asa # to these people which im not at all).

I respect CremeSickle's opinion. He's the type who won't believe anything until it comes true. He doesn't have imagination as to where the future is heading. When it does come true, he'll be wrong, but then it will be too late.

If the AANA was all talk, I would be like CremeSickle and wouldn't be worried either. But the AANA is taking action and seeing results. They're lobbying aggressively, marketing to the lay public, purposely blurring the lines between MD's and CRNA's, etc. The writing is on the wall. But some people don't see it.

If you see a potential problem in the future, you want to take care of it while it is as small as possible. You don't ignore it until you becomes a monster. The strategy that CremeSickle proposes is the one that the ASA has been following unsuccessfully for decades.

What if 20 or even 10 years ago the ASA recognized that future problems were on the way and decided that anesthesiology needed a strong counterweight to the CRNA's by promoting the AA profession? That's called leadership. I believe that NP's have not made the same headway as CRNA's because we have a strong medical counterpart in PA's. We have more than a hundred PA schools and they are licensed in all 50 states. We have just 5 AA schools and licensure in just 9 states.

Other groups get it. There is a nascent midlevel group in radiology. Most radiologists see the writing on the wall and will not support them.

 

[dhb]

Yes, I am pro-CRNA and anti-AA.

😕That makes no sense... if you're an MD??

No im not a CRNA.

But your mother is right? Maybe one day you'll realize parents don't always tell the truth...

 

[CremeSickle]

DHB

My mom was a CRNA and became an anesthesiologist. Im a DO. Contrary to what you hear here or even what the ASA says many anesthesiologists are against AAs for MANY reasons. It is not a popular alternative.

 

[Hernandez]

"On April 28, 2004, the IRS released guidance on what charities are and are not allowed to do in relation to political campaigns. Public charities are absolutely prohibited from supporting or opposing particular candidates for office. Charities can encourage people to vote or sponsor political debates or educational forums, as long as those activities are offered in a bipartisan manner

This is definitely applicable in this instance.

I'd suggest you refer to the actual IRS press release.

IR-2004-59, April 28, 2004

WASHINGTON — Charities should be careful that their efforts to educate voters comply with the Internal Revenue Code requirements concerning political campaign activities, the tax agency said today in a presidential election-year advisory.

Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) of the Code that are exempt from federal income tax are prohibited from participating or intervening in any political campaign on behalf of, or in opposition to, any candidate for public office. Charities, educational institutions and religious organizations, including churches, are among those that are tax-exempt under this code section.

These organizations cannot endorse any candidates, make donations to their campaigns, engage in fund raising, distribute statements, or become involved in any other activities that may be beneficial or detrimental to any candidate. Even activities that encourage people to vote for or against a particular candidate on the basis of nonpartisan criteria violate the political campaign prohibition of section 501(c)(3).

Whether an organization is engaging in prohibited political campaign activity depends upon all the facts and circumstances in each case. For example, organizations may sponsor debates or forums to educate voters. If the debate or forum shows a preference for or against a certain candidate, however, it becomes a prohibited activity.

The federal courts have upheld this prohibition on political campaign activity, most recently in Branch Ministries v. Rossotti, 211 F.3d 137 (D.C. Cir. 2000). The courts have held that it is not unconstitutional for the tax law to impose conditions, such as the political campaign prohibition, upon exemption from federal income tax.

If the IRS finds a section 501(c)(3) organization engaged in prohibited campaign activity, the organization could lose its tax-exempt status and it could be subject to an excise tax on the amount of money spent on that activity.

In cases of flagrant violation of the law, the IRS has specific statutory authority to make an immediate determination and assessment of tax. Also, the IRS can ask a federal district court to enjoin the organization from making further political expenditures.

In addition, contributions to organizations that lose their section 501(c)(3) status because of political activities are not deductible by the donors for federal income tax purposes.

The political campaign prohibition as it applies to churches is discussed in Publication 1828, Tax Guide for Churches and Religious Organizations. This publication, along with other information about the political campaign prohibition, is available on IRS.gov at www.irs.gov/eo.

The IRS issued similar election-year advisories to charities in 1992, 1996 and 2000​

And per the Actual IRS publication on this issue.

All IRC section 501(c)(3) organizations, including churches
and religious organizations, must abide by certain rules:
■ their net earnings may not inure to any private
shareholder or individual,
■ they must not provide a substantial benefit to private
interests,
■ they must not devote a substantial part of their
activities to attempting to influence legislation,
■ they must not participate in, or intervene in, any
political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to)
any candidate for public office, and
■ the organization’s purposes and activities may not
be illegal or violate fundamental public policy.​

And all the guidelines that I could find on their site deal strictly with campagin intervention and promotion of one candidate over another.

As already explained to you by JPP, the private forum was created simply to offer a place for physicians and student doctors to discuss their profession due to the overwhelming and cumbersome heated debates of a practice rights nature.

Please stop trying to create havoc on this.

 

[FoughtFyr]

"On April 28, 2004, the IRS released guidance on what charities are and are not allowed to do in relation to political campaigns. Public charities are absolutely prohibited from supporting or opposing particular candidates for office. Charities can encourage people to vote or sponsor political debates or educational forums, as long as those activities are offered in a bipartisan manner."

This is definitely applicable in this instance.

The "bipartisan" referred to in the regulation is in regard to the two official federal political parties - not two sides to any given debate. Are you suggesting that a Catholic Church must allow planned parenthood to give a sermon? Face facts, charties can, and do, have private events. Charities may, quite legally, exclude certain viewpoints from their materials. As long as those viewpoints do not directly encourage voting for a particular candidate nor specific party, it is NOT covered in the regulation you posted. Last I checked, CRNA rights were not a platform plank for either party.

- H

 

[mwbeah]

The "bipartisan" referred to in the regulation is in regard to the two official federal political parties - not two sides to any given debate. Are you suggesting that a Catholic Church must allow planned parenthood to give a sermon? Face facts, charties can, and do, have private events. Charities may, quite legally, exclude certain viewpoints from their materials. As long as those viewpoints do not directly encourage voting for a particular candidate nor specific party, it is NOT covered in the regulation you posted. Last I checked, CRNA rights were not a platform plank for either party.

- H

This is a slippery slope and would make for a solid legal argument and the ASA and the AANA both clearly support and lobby certain officials. All I am saying is the banter is definitely "riding the fence".

Hey you all think I am anti-MD and I have said that over and over that I am not, but I do prefer a discussion that has both sides presented in a civil manner thats all. So I bring up the other side when an issue is posted that isn't clinical because the reality is that MDs and CRNAs work respectfully together daily; in addition CRNAs and Surgeons do as well. Also, the only man that is better than all of us died on the cross a long time ago.

 

[Gern Blansten]

I read the TOS in full and your private forum actually may be illegal since this site takes money. Because if I give money to this site then I shouldn't be blocked from all its resources.......and looking through the SDN site this seems to be the only "private" forum (wonder why that is.....)

"(m) use The Student Doctor Network in a manner that adversely affects the availability of its resources to other Users"

Just FYI

It appears you are faced with a few choices:

1-Go to medical school and gain acceptance to the ever so secret private forum.

2-Go to allnurses.com and have a discussion with your peers like we are trying to do as we fight off all of the interruptions by people such as yourself.

3-Hire you one of those "slip and fall lawyers" so you can bring a frivolous lawsuit against SDN so that you can try and gain through the legal system access to things you have not earned through education. Sounds familiar.

Best wishes.

 

[Hernandez]

This is a slippery slope and would make for a solid legal argument and the ASA and the AANA both clearly support and lobby certain officials. All I am saying is the banter is definitely "riding the fence".

And you went to law school where? Please again refer to the IRS publications which I posted earlier. You're referencing "guidelines" as some sort of proof that this is borderline illegal yet the actual release by the IRS makes no mention of these activities.

And I call bull on the crap that all you're doing is providing a public service announcement. You're trolling, please feel free to stop.

Next you're going to tell us that hospitals can't have doctors' lounges since the docs might talk politics in them🙄

 

[mwbeah]

You're trolling, please feel free to stop.

How is this trolling? Please tell me. I am responding to a thread, not insulting anyone hmmmmm......

I know "just a nurse" right, how do you know I am "just a nurse" there is no way you know my background yes I am a CRNA but that is not all..........

I have done anesthesia in a cave taking care of special ops soldiers, can many of you say that?

 

[Hernandez]

How is this trolling? Please tell me. I am responding to a thread, not insulting anyone hmmmmm......

I've already responded to your insinuations that this is illegal with references from the IRS themselves, and not some unreferenced source from the internet. Perpetuating this to stir the pot appears to be nothing more than trolling. Whether or not your a nurse has nothing to do with it, there are several productive members of this forum who are nurses, but there have been more than a few trolls nurses only wishing to create animosity. I think you're acting trolling because you appear to be threatening SDN with legal action because of your misinterpretation of IRS publications. I personally could careless what your profession is on these forums as long as you don't troll the professional portion of the forums.

This will be my last post on the matter.

 

[FoughtFyr]

This is a slippery slope and would make for a solid legal argument and the ASA and the AANA both clearly support and lobby certain officials. All I am saying is the banter is definitely "riding the fence".

Not even CLOSE! Almost every organization in the country supports specific candidates (but actually SDN doesn't). In any event the acid test is whether or not the organization is involved in apparent "grassroots" campaigning for a specific party or candidate. Even if the entire private forum was specifically and one sidedly purely devoted to decrying the ANA and AANA it would still be legal. Give it a rest - we are allowed to advocate for our specific professions. Go to allnurses.com if you want the alternative view.

- H

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Hmmm this is getting better and better this site is run by The Coastal Research Group.......

"The Coastal Research Group is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the advancement of family and community medicine"

Private political forums on a charitable website that may in fact be an illegal forum......and it is the only one on SDN...




SDN TOS

Sponsorships

We accept sponsorships and underwriting as a means to support the operating costs of the SDN. However, sponsors do not have any oversight or input on the content of SDN. SDN does not endorse, approve or review individual sponsors or their products or services.

No individual guest information is shared with sponsors.

Organizational Relationships

SDN has regular contact with many organizations within the medical education community. However, SDN serves as an independent site and has no direct relationship with any school, professional organization, or company, other than its parent organization, The Coastal Research Group, a 501(c)(3) charitable educational organization.

No individual member information is shared with other organizations.

Ownership

SDN is part of a nonprofit charitable organization, The Coastal Research Group. As such, it does not have any individual owners or shareholders. However, no director or board member of CRG or SDN reports a conflict of interest which impacts the operations or content of SDN.




Someone could really push this issue of the private forum.........................................

Joining the private forum requires giving money to the ASA which, so far as I know, does not give any of that money to SDN. No monetary collusion.

2nd, the money is only required because the ASA will not give out free memberships. If it did, that'd be good enough.

Calm yourself, don't pretend at being a lawyer (who would want to) and enjoy this fantastic resource for what it is.