Sick Sinus Syndrome

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But does that mean you couldn't do it?
I haven't either but i wouldn't have a problem with it.
I wouldn't even know where to look for the stuff.

I guess if the patient was truly unstable, and if chemical pacing didn't help, and if I was all alone, and I happened to have the device in my hands, and if the package had pictures with arrows and colors and directions, sure I'd give it a shot.

Whole lot of ifs there. 🙂
 
I wouldn't even know where to look for the stuff.

I guess if the patient was truly unstable, and if chemical pacing didn't help, and if I was all alone, and I happened to have the device in my hands, and if the package had pictures with arrows and colors and directions, sure I'd give it a shot.

Whole lot of ifs there. 🙂
I've seen the package: just a swan intro and a pacing catheter. You hook up the catheter to a pacer and when you get a response you're golden.

A couple of months ago i had a patient with one coming for a implantable pace. The cable disconnected from the pacer when we transfered the patient to the OR table. The patient went lights out instantly and came right back when i replugged her, pretty amazing.
 
I placed many flow directed pacers for TAVR in fellowship, but not in PP ( our structural guys do it themselves) . But it’s just like placing any flow directed catheter, if you can transduce the pressure you should capture with soon after you see a RV waveform.
 
I DISagree that placing a TVPM is anywhere close to the scope of a general anesthesiologist. My anecdotal experience is that I have done zero in 9 years of training and practice.

So, you park this dude in your ICU and get cards to do it urgently, or have them do it in the cath lab or whatever your local arrangement is. If your hospital can't do that, time to transfer.

Agree. I don't want to have to deal with all this crap. If I were forced to do the case I would just use epi or whatever and transcutaneous pads. Forget all the other garbage. Finish the case, dump on cardiology.
 
This is basically the same as placing a swan except you connect it to a pacer and watch for capture.

Edit: oh I see dhb already said it

SDN: "This procedure that I've never done is basically the same as a more complicated version of a procedure I do very rarely; I shall proceed as if this is commonplace"
 
SDN: "This procedure that I've never done is basically the same as a more complicated version of a procedure I do very rarely; I shall proceed as if this is commonplace"

I also scored a 40 mcat, multiple 260s on step, have lots of muscles and a sexy girlfriend
 
Was thinking about this thread couple of days ago in the OR. Here is my clinical scenario...

Small two cardiac OR hospital that does about 300 hearts per year. Nothing complicated, just usually CABGs, AVRs, LV Leads, and Thorocotomies. However, usually only physicians in house at time of surgery are Anesthesiologist and CT Surgeon. Sometimes occasional EP and a Cardiologist have scheduled cases, but not this day. Doing a Heartport AVR through a mini Anterior Thoracotomy with a sutureless AVR. Standard patient with normal EF, diabetic, and Hypertension. No preexisting conduction abnormalities. I place a Left Subclavian Introducer with a PA Endovent and a 8F double lumen central line at the beginning. Everything proceeds normally with Femoral cannulation. No problems with the new bioprosthesis. Ventricular and Atrial pacing wires placed. I test the wires prior to separating from CPB. Separate easily on low dose Levo. Patient in NSR. Everything looks good so we decannulate after all pump volume in. About 15 minutes later, after all Protamine has been given and hemostasis is achieved, pt starts having junctional rhythm, so I plug in Ventricular leads and getintermittent capture as maximum output. SBP which was in the 100-120 range is now 60-70. Surgeon tries to place new V lead but can't reach RV. A lead captures easily but little conduction. I start some Epi to try to help ventricular capture, but the patient already has a pretty tight LVOT and already appears quite hyperdynamic despite volume replacement. So, I'm left with a couple of options that are all pretty ****ty.

1) Recannulate to go back on CPB and place new Ventricular leads. Possible that we may need to convert to Sternotomy to do this effectively
2) Take down the drapes and have a Cardiologist come in a couple hours to place a Transvenous pacer since surgeon has never done one before. Or, just place it myself.
3) Take out my Subclavian lines and have the surgeon place a PPM. Not optimal for a number of reasons
4) Place a Transvenous pacer from the groin.

To preserve the surgical field, I chose option 4. I had done a couple previously, but never post bypass and never from the Femoral position. Had my tech get a temporary pacing kit from EP. I scrubbed in and placed it under Fluoro and yes I use Fluoro for my Heartports so I know what to look for for final lead position. After several attempts with the lead getting could up in the RAA, I was finally able to place it in the RV and get capture with threshold down to 5. Surgeon sutures in TVP lead, since there is no locking mechanism (I would normally just secure with tegaderms). So, we are able to close and get over to ICU

If this happened after the chest was closed, placing it either from the Subclavian or IJ position would have been tremendously easier. I agree with others that said if you can float a Swan, you should be able to place these if you know how to work a pacer box. Just my opinion, though. I understand others being uncomfortable if you don't do cardiac on a regular basis
 
We all could probably do a diagnostic angio or place a tunneled HD cath or an open chest tube, doesn't mean it's in our scope of practice.

I don’t think this analogy holds, and I agree with your prior post saying preop planning should’ve been much better. With that said, you’ve placed a swan, in an emergent setting I’m confident any of us that have placed more than a few PACs could get this done. I’m not saying it’s ideal, but this is more like a surgical cric in my mind as in I’ve done zero, but if it came to it I think I could get it done based on my training and knowledge of the airway.
 
Arguments on actually placing one one way or the other aside, having a transvenous pacer when you need it is an order of magnitude nicer than a patient convulsing 80 or 90 times a minute. You have to paralyze some of these people.
 
Arguments on actually placing one one way or the other aside, having a transvenous pacer when you need it is an order of magnitude nicer than a patient convulsing 80 or 90 times a minute. You have to paralyze some of these people.

I actually had an urgent PPM placement in a dude post open heart and conveniently post introducer removal that was being paced transcutaneously while wide awake. He didn’t appear to be enjoying it, but he was remarkably stoic about it.

And in regards to your comment on paralyzing them, I’d think that wouldn’t work as it’s direct muscle stim, but I can’t say that I’ve paid that much attention.
 
I actually had an urgent PPM placement in a dude post open heart and conveniently post introducer removal that was being paced transcutaneously while wide awake. He didn’t appear to be enjoying it, but he was remarkably stoic about it.

And in regards to your comment on paralyzing them, I’d think that wouldn’t work as it’s direct muscle stim, but I can’t say that I’ve paid that much attention.

The difference in both dccv/defibrillating and pacing (and bovie-ing for that matter) a paralyzed and non-paralyzed patient can be, literally, startling. Having a lower capture threshold helps, but it isn't always perfect.
 
To preserve the surgical field, I chose option 4. I had done a couple previously, but never post bypass and never from the Femoral position. Had my tech get a temporary pacing kit from EP. I scrubbed in and placed it under Fluoro and yes I use Fluoro for my Heartports so I know what to look for for final lead position. After several attempts with the lead getting could up in the RAA, I was finally able to place it in the RV and get capture with threshold down to 5.

Did you use the TEE to guide the placement as well?
 
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