kidthor

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My anesthesia job is decent. It pays well enough and I maximize my savings. W2 job, maxing my 401k and 457, plus my employer contributes to the 401k some. But I'm hoping to do more.

I'm curious about how to really do a side hustle and how to save more. My coworkers dabble in real estate investing but that seems to be the limit of my network's side-hustles (notwithstanding some who invest in relatives income streams such). There don't seem to be many of us who make money on the side beyond small-scale real estate investments.

I'm curious for you SDN Anesthesia folks... what's your side hustle and how can we anesthesiologists make more on the side, or at least how do you work a second income stream and optimize tax burdens?

This has been discussed here and on other forums but I'm curious what's the strategy for pandemic-ridden 2020-20201 and how should we think about the future.
 
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MirrorTodd

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I don't expect to make tons of money on it, but I will eventually have my own garage to restore cars as I see fit.
 
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ProwlerturnGas

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I’m a military reservist. Now that >20 years, all icing. I enjoy my time so will keep going.
 
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abolt18

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My anesthesia job is decent. It pays well enough and I maximize my savings. W2 job, maxing my 401k and 457, plus my employer contributes to the 401k some. But I'm hoping to do more.

I'm curious about how to really do a side hustle and how to save more. My coworkers dabble in real estate investing but that seems to be the limit of my network's side-hustles (notwithstanding some who invest in relatives income streams such). There don't seem to be many of us who make money on the side beyond small-scale real estate investments.

I'm curious for you SDN Anesthesia folks... what's your side hustle and how can we anesthesiologists make more on the side, or at least how do you work a second income stream and optimize tax burdens?

This has been discussed here and on other forums but I'm curious what's the strategy for pandemic-ridden 2020-20201 and how should we think about the future.
Personally, I've followed and read the Whitecoat Investor long enough that I've often contemplated the need for a side-hustle. I dove deep into many of the finance, FIRE, and related podcasts and blogs. So many times I've felt like I NEEDED to come up with an alternative source of income, which I know is just stupid to think that.

I finally realized that I value my free time a LOT and most of these side-hustles are quite a lot of work. I'm all about set-it and forget-it passive investing that requires a good plan and some stick-to-it-iveness but does NOT require much tracking or use of extra energy and free time.

I also realized that IF I feel the need to earn more money, I have pretty significant earning potential and a valuable knowledge and skill set; I've put in countless hours to get to this point and I can just go work a little more or do a locums gig to earn that money. The chance of me coming up with some side-gig that earns more for me per hour than what I can get at work is near zero.

It also helps that my wife and I are quite frugal so there is little need for additional income.

Ultimately, I have no major interest in pursuing other money-earning ventures because I know they'll just take me away from what precious time I have with my wife, kids, friends, and hobbies.

If I ever change my mind, I will likely pursue real estate, try to buy a bunch of properties overtime with a good property manager and maintenance guy to deal with the daily issues. Listening to and reading what Cory Fawcett has to say about real estate made me realize it's probably the only thing I could pursue to augment my income. That, or become a financial advisor if I really want out of medicine.
 
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linkin06

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Personally, I've followed and read the Whitecoat Investor long enough that I've often contemplated the need for a side-hustle. I dove deep into many of the finance, FIRE, and related podcasts and blogs. So many times I've felt like I NEEDED to come up with an alternative source of income, which I know is just stupid to think that.

Ultimately I finally realized that I value my free time a LOT and most of these side-hustles are quite a lot of work. I'm all about set-it and forget-it passive investing that requires a good plan and some stick-to-it-iveness but does NOT require much tracking or use of extra energy and free time.

I also realized that IF I feel the need to earn more money, I have pretty significant earning potential and a valuable knowledge and skill set; I've put in countless hours to get to this point and I can just go work a little more or do a locums gig to earn that money. The chance of me coming up with some side-gig that earns more for me per hour than what I can get at work is near zero.

It also helps that my wife and I are quite frugal so there is little need for additional income.

Ultimately, I have no major interest in pursuing other money-earning ventures because I know they'll just take me away from what precious time I have with my wife, kids, friends, and hobbies.

If I ever change my mind, I will likely pursue real estate, try to buy a bunch of properties overtime with a good property manager and maintenance guy to deal with the daily issues. Listening to and reading what Cory Fawcett has to say about real estate made me realize it's probably the only thing I could pursue to augment my income. That, or become a financial advisor if I really want out of medicine.
I'm just starting off but have similar aspirations. I'm socking away large six figures in stock market as my goal right now...then in a few years will feel comfortable to do no call work for reasonable hourly rate on my schedule.
 

Guillemot

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Probably only do a side hustle if its something you enjoy. Hard to have one as a doc that is worth it financially c/w just moonlighting somewhere.

I don't have any side hustle, but I try to learn how to do some stuff for myself in my personal life instead of paying others to do it.
 
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caveat87

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Not sure I’d count this as a serious side gig, but you can generate some nice consistent cash flow by selling options for premium. In this volatile market there are lots of people buying lotto tickets on their phone brokerage applications and you can implement fairly low risk strategies which generate $$$ over time
 
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My vision is very limited currently as my only goal has been how to find legal, effective, resistant to time ways to reduce my tax burden. If I achieve that goal, I might think how to increase further my income :)
PS. Stock games are just for fun and I do not count on them.
 
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Newtwo

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There really isnt any better side hustle than doing more anesthesia and dump it in s&p.
 
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BLADEMDA

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Let's say you invest $60,000 per year in the stock market. This is your total $$ both pre and after tax. The rate of return is 6% per year for 20 years.

Here is the result:

At the end of 20 years, your savings will have grown to $2,399,563.
You will have earned in $1,139,563 in interest


I recommend $60,000 per year as your minimum goal per year. If you need to work a side gig as a locums to get there then go do it.
 
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Shimmy8

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AirBNB my house for awhile, but I’ve moved since.

Have a ton of friends in this industry but COVID has shot that to hell. Looking to save up to potentially buy multi-family units. Have a good friend that manages properties already. Always looking!
 

cincincyreds

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I like side hustles where I don't have to leave my house. I basically sign up for credit card rewards and buy things online that I can easily resell online and ship in the mail from my building in order to generate credit card rewards. Using sites like stockx to resell things like shoes in order to get enough spend on credit cards for the big rewards. I profited about 25k last year. Not a huge amount but lets me work a little less. Tax free money also.
 
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MirrorTodd

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I like side hustles where I don't have to leave my house. I basically sign up for credit card rewards and buy things online that I can easily resell online and ship in the mail from my building in order to generate credit card rewards. Using sites like stockx to resell things like shoes in order to get enough spend on credit cards for the big rewards. I profited about 25k last year. Not a huge amount but lets me work a little less. Tax free money also.
That's pretty ****in impressive.
 
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sevoflurane

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Very little hands on in my real estate investments so my free time remains my own.
 
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Newtwo

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Having lived through 2 recessions and 1 gigantic housing bubble bursting, you all can keep your real estate speculation!

The only reason real estate works as an investment portfolio is because government and banks let people borrow scary amounts of leverage to essentially take it to the housing roulette table. Most of the time it works great but once every 10 years it falls apart and resets
 
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sevoflurane

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Just opened a 5th hotel in Vegas with our investment partners.

18% returns plus return of capital w/in 5 yrs. Goal is to eventually sell all 5 to a REIT.

These projects have w/stood the bubble and have been profitable the last 5 years.
A3B2AFB0-08F8-49A2-9ED5-970E5F63928A.jpeg
 
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kidthor

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For the real estate investors - have you syndicated with other people ever? Is it ever a good idea to have a group of doctors buy real estate together, or is that a recipe for disaster?
 

sevoflurane

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For me it’s just diversification. My residencial properties will be used in retirement as they are in great locations.
 

IlDestriero

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Real estate is the easiest side hustle to get involved with. Other than working more, of course.
Everything has risk and diversity is useful.
The San Diego housing market fell apart in 2008, but like any long term investment, you wait. Now that house that “lost” ~40% overnight has now gained more than 20% from the pre collapse price and rents are up. I could rent my current home for over $5k/month. I don’t plan to sell it, I’ll just buy another. Someone else can pay my tax, upkeep and insurance and I’ll sell it if I ever need the money.
I also don’t need a $2M+ retirement show home. Ocean view cottage is fine.
 
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sevoflurane

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For the real estate investors - have you syndicated with other people ever? Is it ever a good idea to have a group of doctors buy real estate together, or is that a recipe for disaster?

It’s not just doctors. It’s the builder, managing partners and other walks of life. Everyone has skin in the game. First LLC dates back 15 years with the same builder and manager. Mostly same investment group. I was just lucky to get in and able to participate.
 

IlDestriero

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I think there will be a lot of good deals on commercial and residential real estate next year, with a downward correction across the board. Foreclosures and bankruptcies can only be put off for so long, then they walk away.
I’ve got a significant amount of capital available just waiting for the right opportunity.
 
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sevoflurane

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I think there will be a lot of good deals on commercial and residential real estate next year, with a downward correction across the board. Foreclosures and bankruptcies can only be put off for so long, then they walk away.
I’ve got a significant amount of capital available just waiting for the right opportunity.

Agree. Buy low sell high. I bought my primary home in 2013. It’s up 60% based on a recent appraisal. Certain markets are able to pop like that.

My 1+ acre piece if dirt was bought in 2011 for 50k. Currently 1 acre lots are going for 250-300k just down the street.
 
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sevoflurane

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My parents bought their Los Altos home 25 years ago. Talk about returns and resistance to down turns.

Location, location, location.
 

sevo00

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It’s not just doctors. It’s the builder, managing partners and other walks of life. Everyone has skin in the game. First LLC dates back 15 years with the same builder and manager. Mostly same investment group. I was just lucky to get in and able to participate.

how were you able to find such a group? I have capital saved up and very interested in starting both residential and commercial property investing but just don’t know how/where to start. All of it still feels a little overwhelming too me for now
 

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I was big into manufactured spending for awhile when it was an easily manipulated game. Easiest money/points every. Accumulated 2mm+ miles plus decent cash in a few years before the easy avenues were shut down.

It’s not just doctors. It’s the builder, managing partners and other walks of life. Everyone has skin in the game. First LLC dates back 15 years with the same builder and manager. Mostly same investment group. I was just lucky to get in and able to participate.

I was very close to getting involved with something similar last year on the commercial AirBNB avenue, but a local disaster prevented that from happening. Probably a blessing given COVID (in the short term), but long term upside potential would have been outstanding if the venture survived COVID.
 
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sevoflurane

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how were you able to find such a group? I have capital saved up and very interested in starting both residential and commercial property investing but just don’t know how/where to start. All of it still feels a little overwhelming too me for now

Networking, but mainly a few older partners that have been doing it for a while. Have another local group in town that is made up of a realtor (will find awesome deals/manage properties), accountant, myself and a few like minded friends. I passed on a property they bought for 700k at the beginning of the year and sold over a mil last month. My buddies input was exactly zero besides money invested.
My residential properties have all been solo projects.

Buying and Selling options is another avenue. I personally don't do it, but I have a partner who is crushing the options market. Was up over 2 million this year last i spoke to him. He is 6 years out of fellowship. Feels like gambling to me, but he was making big bets during covid. Glad it worked out for him.
 
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sevoflurane

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I would say to invest early and max everything out. Once you get a nest egg, start thinking of reasonable investing avenues.
Nothing is certain, especially the real estate market. If I was to loose all my real estate investments tomorrow, I could still retire the day after.
Food for thought. On the other hand, if everything pans out I will have a steady liquid income during retirement for a considerable amount of time or until I decide to sell.
 
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Real estate is the easiest side hustle to get involved with. Other than working more, of course.
Everything has risk and diversity is useful.
The San Diego housing market fell apart in 2008, but like any long term investment, you wait. Now that house that “lost” ~40% overnight has now gained more than 20% from the pre collapse price and rents are up. I could rent my current home for over $5k/month. I don’t plan to sell it, I’ll just buy another. Someone else can pay my tax, upkeep and insurance and I’ll sell it if I ever need the money.
I also don’t need a $2M+ retirement show home. Ocean view cottage is fine.

Ocean view cottage where?
 
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That depends on how the investments do.
Mougins, La Jolla, Pacific Palisades, Carmel, Annapolis, Outer Banks, Keys, prime Alabama lakefront, subprime Louisiana swamp front. It’s a spectrum of water views, feet up gin in hand either way.

Nice. I've only seen the keys and carmel, houses are expensive af but nice places. What do you think about rising ocean levels? I just read an article about how people bought beachfront properties in Hawaii and they need to put down sandbags to protect their investments but it's ruining the beaches.
 

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Nice. I've only seen the keys and carmel, houses are expensive af but nice places. What do you think about rising ocean levels? I just read an article about how people bought beachfront properties in Hawaii and they need to put down sandbags to protect their investments but it's ruining the beaches.
Is that you Greta? Climate change is a Chinese hoax remember?
 
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chocomorsel

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What kind of ca
Just opened a 5th hotel in Vegas with our investment partners.

18% returns plus return of capital w/in 5 yrs. Goal is to eventually sell all 5 to a REIT.

These projects have w/stood the bubble and have been profitable the last 5 years.
View attachment 325958
How much investment does this require? Millions?
 

sevoflurane

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How much investment does this require? Millions?

Sometimes, but I usually go btw/ 100k-275k per project depending on location and proforma.
Some investors in the group drop 2 mil per project.
What is nice is that it is staggered in a way that as one hotel opens the next one is being built while plans are being made for the one after that.
Goal for me is to have enough to support an income from all of my real estate investments that generate 300k in passive income.
Some in the group that have been at it for a while far exceed that number.
 
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sevoflurane

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Just had a hotel open on Las Vegas Boulevard.

This one will open in about 6 months.
 
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Neopolymath

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I've done several fun things over the years that work well but I pulled all my money out of that stuff and put it into mutual funds and whatnot when I went to med school. I will probably go back to side hustles after training because I find them enjoyable and I find the risk mitigation via diversification important for young physicians who could have their pay cut instantly with no leg to stand on otherwise.

Passive: Land for RV, boat, construction equipment storage. Laundry mats and stuff like that (gotta be vague due to app season). Co-own businesses with people you trust in their industry (need excellent judgement here). Basically anything you can take less money to have someone else handle the operation. Endless opportunities here. The more rural the better.

Active: Make highly reproducible wood/metal products and sell to local people and via Etsy. Stress relief 5-7 hours of work every two weeks doing something I enjoy with craftsmanship. Make some templates/jigs and start churning things out. Sell for huge markup to dumb 40 year olds who think $50-75 is a good price for $7 of material their husband could make at home if people weren't so unable to fix and build things themselves now. I don't really do this one for the money as my time is more valuable than that honestly but the creativity and excuse to buy more powertools/work on new techniques is addictive. The craftsmanship of this stuff is way lower than the types of things I build for myself and family. It's certainly something LineandBerry would consider selling out haha.

Built some custom racecar parts for a while. Now that was a good gig.
 
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I've done several fun things over the years that work well but I pulled all my money out of that stuff and put it into mutual funds and whatnot when I went to med school. I will probably go back to side hustles after training because I find them enjoyable and I find the risk mitigation via diversification important for young physicians who could have their pay cut instantly with no leg to stand on otherwise.

Passive: Land for RV, boat, construction equipment storage. Laundry mats and stuff like that (gotta be vague due to app season). Co-own businesses with people you trust in their industry (need excellent judgement here). Basically anything you can take less money to have someone else handle the operation. Endless opportunities here. The more rural the better.

Active: Make highly reproducible wood/metal products and sell to local people and via Etsy. Stress relief 5-7 hours of work every two weeks doing something I enjoy with craftsmanship. Make some templates/jigs and start churning things out. Sell for huge markup to dumb 40 year olds who think $50-75 is a good price for $7 of material their husband could make at home if people weren't so unable to fix and build things themselves now. I don't really do this one for the money as my time is more valuable than that honestly but the creativity and excuse to buy more powertools/work on new techniques is addictive. The craftsmanship of this stuff is way lower than the types of things I build for myself and family. It's certainly something LineandBerry would consider selling out haha.

Built some custom racecar parts for a while. Now that was a good gig.

Very cool
 

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