Simulating med school studying?

[Deecee2DO]

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Where are you in training? Have you taken Step 1 yet? If not, do you know anyone who has taken Step 1 and done well after scoring ~50th %ile on the MCAT? There seems to be data showing a loose correlation between MCAT and Step performance.

Yes there are threads on SDN and upper classmen at my school as well where people have scored well on Step and had ~50%ile mcat. I attend established NJ state DO school (RowanSOM) to answer your question. Of the studies I have read, pre-clinical grades show the strongest correlation with Step 1 success. There is a stronger correlation with pre-clinical grades than MCAT in this regard so yes the correlation is very loose between MCAT and step. They are very different exams and test a much different knowledge base

 

[Deecee2DO]

@Mike Bagwell you think I can handle it? Yeah I see what you’re saying. No chem? Really???

If you are accepted you are very highly likely to be able to handle med school. Not very many people fail out of med school because they are not able to handle it

 

[chemdoctor]

The only chem I’ve ever used is H2O + CO2 -> H2CO3 -> H+ + HCO3-

CARBONIC ACID!!!!

 

[chemdoctor]

If you are accepted you are very highly likely to be able to handle med school. Not very many people fail out of med school because they are not able to handle it

That’s true. I’ve been told by my premed peers that I wouldn’t be able to handle it... jerks.

 

[chemdoctor]

@Mike Bagwell yeah. I definitely want to get in, it’s just I’ve had lots of premeds tell me I wouldn’t be able to do it Bc I struggled in Orgo so much

 

[Mad Jack]

I always hear the “drinking water from a fire hose” and eating pancakes analogy, but I’ve never actually seen the amount of material med students are required to learn in x amount of time. Is there anywhere online that I’d be able to find for example, all of the lecture slides/material for 1 block at a med school? I’m just really curious to see exactly how much info it is and the depth of it.

Hahaha I'll see if I can dig up my old Block 1 study guides

 

[Mad Jack]

That’s true. I’ve been told by my premed peers that I wouldn’t be able to handle it... jerks.

Anyone can handle it, it is not difficult material, it is just voluminous

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yes there are threads on SDN and upper classmen at my school as well where people have scored well on Step and had ~50%ile mcat. I attend established NJ state DO school (RowanSOM) to answer your question. Of the studies I have read, pre-clinical grades show the strongest correlation with Step 1 success. There is a stronger correlation with pre-clinical grades than MCAT in this regard so yes the correlation is very loose between MCAT and step. They are very different exams and test a much different knowledge base

Interesting. Also by where, I meant what phase. Like M1, M2, etc. What school you’re at isn’t really relevant, and if you want to edit it out for anonymity I will edit my quote.

 

[Deecee2DO]

That’s true. I’ve been told by my premed peers that I wouldn’t be able to handle it... jerks.

Many premeds have no idea what they are talking about. How would they know whether you could handle it or not they aren't adcoms or med students that have worked with you

 

[Deecee2DO]

Interesting. Also by where, I meant what phase. Like M1, M2, etc. What school you’re at isn’t really relevant, and if you want to edit it out for anonymity I will edit my quote.

Also of the MCAT, it is more accurate to look at the Bio section score rather than the others as that has the highest correlation with success in medical school and step as opposed to other sections

 

[Deecee2DO]

@Mike Bagwell yeah. I definitely want to get in, it’s just I’ve had lots of premeds tell me I wouldn’t be able to do it Bc I struggled in Orgo so much

You can't compare Orgo and med school. Orgo material is not even close to med school material. Physio is much more relevant to med school. If you can handle upper level/advanced physio, micro, immuno those would have a higher predictability (if any) in your success in med school not orgo. The only way to predict success is acceptance to med school and/or your performance in med school. Adcoms are the trained professionals who can gauge whether you can handle med school or not

 

[Mike Bagwell]

Yes there are threads on SDN and upper classmen at my school as well where people have scored well on Step and had ~50%ile mcat. I attend established NJ state DO school (RowanSOM) to answer your question. Of the studies I have read, pre-clinical grades show the strongest correlation with Step 1 success. There is a stronger correlation with pre-clinical grades than MCAT in this regard so yes the correlation is very loose between MCAT and step. They are very different exams and test a much different knowledge base

MCAT is a strategy exam based on so many variables. For example, you can study for the MCAT longer than for STEP1 and there are a variety of MCAT preparation services ranging from the hundreds to thousands of dollars. It is easy to make a huge jump in your MCAT score from your practice exams to the official exam with these services. The interesting thing to note with STEP1 prep however is that Kaplan or any other test prep service cannot take you from 220-250 for STEP. Kaplan, at best, can take you from not passing to pass. STEP1 is a knowledge-based exam based precisely on your knowledge and preparation so if your preparation during the pre-clinical years was not good, there's actually very little to nothing you can do come test time. I've seen, over the years, every type of combination of pass/failure outcomes on STEP1 with both high and low MCAT scores. I am not a believer that the MCAT predicts STEP1 performance.

I do believe that pre-clinical grades are a very strong predictor of your STEP 1 score and from what I have observed there is a strong correlation between both.

But worry about all of that once you get an acceptance to medical school.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

But worry about all of that once you get an acceptance to medical school.

That’s why I’m asking about it. I start med school in July.

Also:
Do MCAT scores predict USMLE scores? An analysis on 5 years of medical student data

Basically, loose correlation between MCAT and Step, but not much more predictive than “top scorers are likely to stay that way, as are bottom scorers.”

 

[Mike Bagwell]

That’s why I’m asking about it. I start med school in July.

Also:
Do MCAT scores predict USMLE scores? An analysis on 5 years of medical student data

Basically, loose correlation between MCAT and Step, but not much more predictive than “top scorers are likely to stay that way, as are bottom scorers.”

There are "dedicated" students who cracked open MCAT prep books during freshman year of college. You don't get that liberty in medical school. That's why I'm not terribly impressed with some MCAT scores from certain individuals because I want to know the backstory.

A high STEP score means you know what you are doing and you are an excellent test-taker. I have seen several people with stellar MCAT scores who were mediocre medical students and ended up failing STEP1 on their first attempt.

The main idea here is just get into medical school and work very hard and you will be fine for STEP1. I'm anticipating around eights weeks of studying for STEP when I take it.

 

[907914]

There are "dedicated" students who cracked open MCAT prep books during freshman year of college. You don't get that liberty in medical school. That's why I'm not terribly impressed with some MCAT scores from certain individuals because I want to know the backstory.

A high STEP score means you know what you are doing and you are an excellent test-taker. I have seen several people with stellar MCAT scores who were mediocre medical students and ended up failing STEP1 on their first attempt.

The main idea here is just get into medical school and work very hard and you will be fine for STEP1. I'm anticipating around eights weeks of studying for STEP when I take it.

When you say “you don’t get that luxury in MED school,” is that to mean pre-studying for a subject (at least most of the time) is not feasible? For people who learn best when it is something they have had previous exposure to, how would they go about studying the most efficiently?

 

[Mike Bagwell]

When you say “you don’t get that luxury in MED school,” is that to mean pre-studying for a subject (at least most of the time) is not feasible? For people who learn best when it is something they have had previous exposure to, how would they go about studying the most efficiently?

Medical school will test how efficient of a person you are. I think you might be under the impression that medical school is like an undergrad schedule just with harder classes.

I think one term of medical school was harder than taking all the pre-reqs combined. With that type of work, you don't have time to crack open a review book and review for STEP1 until you get time off to study for it. That's why I said I am anticipating eight weeks of study after second year.

 

[907914]

Medical school will test how efficient of a person you are. I think you might be under the impression that medical school is like an undergrad schedule just with harder classes.

I think one term of medical school was harder than taking all the pre-reqs combined. With that type of work, you don't have time to crack open a review book and review for STEP1 until you get time off to study for it. That's why I said I am anticipating eight weeks of study after second year.

Gotcha, so you learn it as you go and don’t necessarily touch it again (outside the context of other related blocks) until dedicated because there is no time to touch it again because of the next day’s pancakes.

 

[Mike Bagwell]

Gotcha, so you learn it as you go and don’t necessarily touch it again (outside the context of other related blocks) until dedicated because there is no time to touch it again because of the next day’s pancakes.

Yes, that's the idea. Now you're thinking correctly.

 

[Deecee2DO]

MCAT is a strategy exam based on so many variables. For example, you can study for the MCAT longer than for STEP1 and there are a variety of MCAT preparation services ranging from the hundreds to thousands of dollars. It is easy to make a huge jump in your MCAT score from your practice exams to the official exam with these services. The interesting thing to note with STEP1 prep however is that Kaplan or any other test prep service cannot take you from 220-250 for STEP. Kaplan, at best, can take you from not passing to pass. STEP1 is a knowledge-based exam based precisely on your knowledge and preparation so if your preparation during the pre-clinical years was not good, there's actually very little to nothing you can do come test time. I've seen, over the years, every type of combination of pass/failure outcomes on STEP1 with both high and low MCAT scores. I am not a believer that the MCAT predicts STEP1 performance.

I do believe that pre-clinical grades are a very strong predictor of your STEP 1 score and from what I have observed there is a strong correlation between both.

But worry about all of that once you get an acceptance to medical school.

I agree completely. IMO as a current med student I think a lot of it comes down to work ethic too and practicing how to take tests how to think correctly practice problems etc. Those who did well in preclinical did well because they busted theyre ass and its the same work ethic that brought them success on Step (not guaranteed obviously) because, again, they busted their ass and they had a strong foundation from the time they put in from day 1. There are obviously many variables that go into Step success that I am not accounting for in this post but the correlation between M1/M2 grades and Step is there

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

There are "dedicated" students who cracked open MCAT prep books during freshman year of college. You don't get that liberty in medical school. That's why I'm not terribly impressed with some MCAT scores from certain individuals because I want to know the backstory.

A high STEP score means you know what you are doing and you are an excellent test-taker. I have seen several people with stellar MCAT scores who were mediocre medical students and ended up failing STEP1 on their first attempt.

The main idea here is just get into medical school and work very hard and you will be fine for STEP1. I'm anticipating around eights weeks of studying for STEP when I take it.

Eh I think that first argument is cherry picking the extremes a bit. I am sure the tests are different, and the MCAT very much was part strategy. However, it seems like the vast majority of people do about 3 months of dedicate MCAT study which is a bit longer than most Step dedicated periods. And I also know people who crack open FA and start doing UFAPS first semester of med school. *shrug*

There is definitely a loose correlation but I think it probably just shows that the people who do well on the MCAT are the same people who are likely to do well on Step, whether it’s because they’re very smart or willing to put in the work (or both).

But I am totally with you there on your last point. I think it all just boils down to putting in the work and trusting that thousands of people have done it already.

 

[907914]

I agree completely. IMO as a current med student I think a lot of it comes down to work ethic too and practicing how to take tests how to think correctly practice problems etc. Those who did well in preclinical did well because they busted theyre ass and its the same work ethic that brought them success on Step (not guaranteed obviously) because, again, they busted their ass and they have a strong foundation from the time they put in from day 1. There are obviously many variables that go into Step success that I am not accounting for in this post but the correlation between M1/M2 grades and Step is there

Even if your school is a true Unranked P/F, do you still know what your ‘grades’ are?

 

[Deecee2DO]

Eh I think that first argument is cherry picking the extremes a bit. I am sure the tests are different, and the MCAT very much was part strategy. However, it seems like the vast majority of people do about 3 months of dedicate MCAT study which is a bit longer than most Step dedicated periods. And I also know people who crack open FA and start doing UFAPS first semester of med school. *shrug*

There is definitely a loose correlation but I think it probably just shows that the people who do well on the MCAT are the same people who are likely to do well on Step, whether it’s because they’re very smart or willing to put in the work (or both).

But I am totally with you there on your last point. I think it all just boils down to putting in the work and trusting that thousands of people have done it already.

I agree with your last statement. Worth ethic is a big common denominator

 

[Deecee2DO]

Even if your school is a true Unranked P/F, do you still know what your ‘grades’ are?

Yes you get a percent when u get ur score for each exam. But transcript records as “P”. My school is Honors, High pass, pass, fail. my school also advertises “anyone under an 85% is at risk for not doing well on boards and under 80% at risk for failing boards”. If you have above an 85% youre doing pretty well but it depends on the school

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I agree with your last statement. Worth ethic is a big common denominator

There seems to be evidence supporting your experience: Relationships between preclinical course grades and standardized exam performance. - PubMed - NCBI (Performance in pathology was more predictive than MCAT performance).

Although it’s also good to know that going to a P/F school doesn’t seem to affect scores: The Relationship Between Preclinical Grading and USMLE Scores in US Allopathic Medical Schools

 

[Deecee2DO]

There seems to be evidence supporting your experience: Relationships between preclinical course grades and standardized exam performance. - PubMed - NCBI (Performance in pathology was more predictive than MCAT performance).

Although it’s also good to know that going to a P/F school doesn’t seem to affect scores: The Relationship Between Preclinical Grading and USMLE Scores in US Allopathic Medical Schools

Theres another study i saw that shows a graph with preclinical percent avg and Step score but dont know how accurate it is. Ill try to dig it up. They are just ballparks so dont know how accurate it is but its an interesting study. Again so many variables that go into Step its an absolute beast of an exam i have heard

 

[863168]

Two things that weren't explicitly mentioned that I think are notable is that it's not just the volume of information, but knowing how to apply it. You can thoroughly review all the course material, but it's no guarantee that you will still get the right answer depending on nuances within the question prompt some of which ask you to pay attention to detail and others that use that detail as a red herring. From a contextual standpoint, undergrad is entirely Level 1: recall, plug and chug, and use x model to calculate/interpret y results. Telling someone that they need to now perform on higher order questions when they are accustomed to one gear has variable results. Some people are golden in that they are able to retain large amounts of information, critically think through questions appropriately, and apply that knowledge as needed. A majority of people struggle with one or two of the aforementioned categories. You can go to assisted learning and consult for help and they will give you supplemental resources, but it doesn't change the fact that you need to constantly perform.

The second thing is that the entire four years of medical school is analogous to taking a Greyhound Bus to Silicon Valley to take a programming crash course having no prior knowledge in computer science and then attempting to get a job at the Big 4 on your first try at each company. Except at the end of every week you have to take a weekly interview in which you are asked a variety of programming questions which you may have no idea how to solve despite putting in an immense amount of effort reviewing coding problems for the entire week. Furthermore, these weekly interviews may not reflect the nature of the questions on the board examination which you only have one chance to take and is the biggest determining factor in what practice you will engage in for the rest of your professional career. Also, unlike the MCAT you are on a timer to get this completed as best as possible on the first run and also you may have to prepare for two board examinations, while your competition will only need to prepare for one. Also if you are interested in a prestigious academic residency, these residencies will have a tendency to favor your competitors who may have even scored a standard deviation lower than you despite them having the ability to focus on just Step 1. I mean, the Cisco Certified Network Examination. Sorry, I lost the analogy.

 

[Mike Bagwell]

Eh I think that first argument is cherry picking the extremes a bit. I am sure the tests are different, and the MCAT very much was part strategy. However, it seems like the vast majority of people do about 3 months of dedicate MCAT study which is a bit longer than most Step dedicated periods. And I also know people who crack open FA and start doing UFAPS first semester of med school. *shrug*

There is definitely a loose correlation but I think it probably just shows that the people who do well on the MCAT are the same people who are likely to do well on Step, whether it’s because they’re very smart or willing to put in the work (or both).

But I am totally with you there on your last point. I think it all just boils down to putting in the work and trusting that thousands of people have done it already.

No, it's not just putting in the work. There are plenty of people who do put in the work for MCAT studying and can't break 50th percentile. It's a little bit hard work, efficiency, and knowing what to do and what not to do to succeed. STEP scores reflect hard work. If you're an A student in medical school, you can't score 220 on STEP1 unless you took the exam drunk.

Anybody who picks up First Aid on their first day of medical school is one of those people who DOESN'T know what they are doing. First Aid should always be looked at as a review AFTER basic sciences are completed. Ask @Goro what his thoughts are on that. Nobody at my school is opening up FA or is at least doing a good job not getting caught. That's something the Caribbean crowd probably does.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

No, it's not just putting in the work. There are plenty of people who do put in the work for MCAT studying and can't break 50th percentile. It's a little bit hard work, efficiency, and knowing what to do and what not to do to succeed. STEP scores reflect hard work. If you're an A student in medical school, you can't score 220 on STEP1 unless you took the exam drunk.

Right. To me that’s part of putting in the work.

Anybody who picks up First Aid on their first day of medical school is one of those people who DOESN'T know what they are doing. First Aid should always be looked at as a review AFTER basic sciences are completed. Ask @Goro what his thoughts are on that. Nobody at my school is opening up FA or is at least doing a good job not getting caught. That's something the Caribbean crowd probably does.

Agree. But I also think that starting your MCAT prep freshman year means you don’t know what you’re doing, which was my point.

 

[redsox93]

No, it's not just putting in the work. There are plenty of people who do put in the work for MCAT studying and can't break 50th percentile. It's a little bit hard work, efficiency, and knowing what to do and what not to do to succeed. STEP scores reflect hard work. If you're an A student in medical school, you can't score 220 on STEP1 unless you took the exam drunk.

Anybody who picks up First Aid on their first day of medical school is one of those people who DOESN'T know what they are doing. First Aid should always be looked at as a review AFTER basic sciences are completed. Ask @Goro what his thoughts are on that. Nobody at my school is opening up FA or is at least doing a good job not getting caught. That's something the Caribbean crowd probably does.

This is probably school dependent. I used first aid and pathoma throughout 1st and 2nd year along with boards and beyond to fill the gaps in first aid. We had NBME exams

 

[AllBleedingStops]

This is probably school dependent. I used first aid and pathoma throughout 1st and 2nd year along with boards and beyond to fill the gaps in first aid. We had NBME exams

Yeah we annotate FA as we go so that we don't have to catch up as much with that material later. We also have NBME exams as well as school exams and Pathoma, Sketchy, and Boards and Beyond became invaluable after finishing anatomy.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yeah we annotate FA as we go so that we don't have to catch up as much with that material later. We also have NBME exams as well as school exams and Pathoma, Sketchy, and Boards and Beyond became invaluable after finishing anatomy.

The school I’ll be going to has NBME exams too. I will probably also do this.

 

[Goro]

STEP scores reflect hard work. If you're an A student in medical school, you can't score 220 on STEP1 unless you took the exam drunk.

Anybody who picks up First Aid on their first day of medical school is one of those people who DOESN'T know what they are doing. First Aid should always be looked at as a review AFTER basic sciences are completed. Ask @Goro what his thoughts are on that. Nobody at my school is opening up FA or is at least doing a good job not getting caught. That's something the Caribbean crowd probably does.

100% agree!!!

 

[sunshinefl]

To simulate, sit in a chair at a desk 12 hours a day 7 days a week. That will give you an idea of how much studying you will do.

Seriously studying in medical school is so intense that I have developed bilateral ulnar nerve compression neuropathy from having my forearms on the edge of the desk constantly, compression neuropathy in my right thumb from holding a pen, 24/7 chronic tension headache and cervical neck pain from combo of stress/sleep deprivation/poor studying ergonomics, my right eye distance vision had declined from 20/13 at the start of medical school to 20/30 because my right eye is trained to look at the iPad a foot in front of my face constantly, etc.

I can’t wait to be done pre-clinical. It is pure physical and mental torture that you have to sign yourself up for again and again every day. 10 weeks of class and 6 weeks of dedicated to go.

PS this is not a scare tactic. Others may feel differently but this is my true subjective experience. I am even writing this right now with a giant ice pack wrapped in a towel and loosely tied around my neck to subdue the pain enough to study for my 6 exams next week.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

To simulate, sit in a chair at a desk 12 hours a day 7 days a week. That will give you an idea of how much studying you will do.

Seriously studying in medical school is so intense that I have developed bilateral ulnar nerve compression neuropathy from having my forearms on the edge of the desk constantly, compression neuropathy in my right thumb from holding a pen, 24/7 chronic tension headache and cervical neck pain from combo of stress/sleep deprivation/poor studying ergonomics, my right eye distance vision had declined from 20/13 at the start of medical school to 20/30 because my right eye is trained to look at the iPad a foot in front of my face constantly, etc.

I can’t wait to be done pre-clinical. It is pure physical and mental torture that you have to sign yourself up for again and again every day. 10 weeks of class and 6 weeks of dedicated to go.

PS this is not a scare tactic. Others may feel differently but this is my true subjective experience. I am even writing this right now with a giant ice pack wrapped in a towel and loosely tied around my neck to subdue the pain enough to study for my 6 exams next week.

You're only looking at your iPad with your right eye? What's the left eye doing?

 

[sunshinefl]

You're only looking at your iPad with your right eye? What's the left eye doing?

Lol it’s a combo of being right eye dominant, right handed, and being bent writing with the paper at an angle between me and the iPad. So it’s kinda like naturally the iPad is at the center of the right eyes field of vision and closer, while the left eye is kinda chilling, further from the iPad, with the iPad more peripheral. Luckily because of this awkward positioning I have maintained distance vision through my left eye.

 

[Gurby]

To simulate, sit in a chair at a desk 12 hours a day 7 days a week. That will give you an idea of how much studying you will do.

Seriously studying in medical school is so intense that I have developed bilateral ulnar nerve compression neuropathy from having my forearms on the edge of the desk constantly, compression neuropathy in my right thumb from holding a pen, 24/7 chronic tension headache and cervical neck pain from combo of stress/sleep deprivation/poor studying ergonomics, my right eye distance vision had declined from 20/13 at the start of medical school to 20/30 because my right eye is trained to look at the iPad a foot in front of my face constantly, etc.

I can’t wait to be done pre-clinical. It is pure physical and mental torture that you have to sign yourself up for again and again every day. 10 weeks of class and 6 weeks of dedicated to go.

PS this is not a scare tactic. Others may feel differently but this is my true subjective experience. I am even writing this right now with a giant ice pack wrapped in a towel and loosely tied around my neck to subdue the pain enough to study for my 6 exams next week.

Standing desk life! Get up, move around! It's better for your body AND for your brain! I spend all day standing at the kitchen counter, with my iPad sitting on top of a stack of cereal boxes.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Standing desk life! Get up, move around! It's better for your body AND for your brain! I spend all day standing at the kitchen counter, with my iPad sitting on top of a stack of cereal boxes.

Agreed. Prolonged sitting is associated with lots of bad stuff. I try to stand and move around as much as possible.

 

[Mike Bagwell]

100% agree!!!

Pre-med's,

When @Goro agrees 100% to something, you better take notes and add these tips to your "Medical School Success" journal. Don't just come onto SDN to socialize. Make sure you are taking something away from it.

 

[redsox93]

Pre-med's,

When @Goro agrees 100% to something, you better take notes and add these tips to your "Medical School Success" journal. Don't just come onto SDN to socialize. Make sure you are taking something away from it.

This isn’t great advice though... Definitely thankful I’d gone through all of FA and zanki (essentially first aid again) before dedicated because I didn’t have to spend time learning it then and could focus on questions.

 

[MCATISEZ]

I always hear the “drinking water from a fire hose” and eating pancakes analogy, but I’ve never actually seen the amount of material med students are required to learn in x amount of time. Is there anywhere online that I’d be able to find for example, all of the lecture slides/material for 1 block at a med school? I’m just really curious to see exactly how much info it is and the depth of it.

Good question. There is definitely an incredible amount of material - which is the only part of medical school that objectively difficult (at least to me as a lowly M1).

We are on a system's based curriculum so we are typically just tackling one subject/exam at a time. If we have 3 weeks from the start of the material, there is about ~45 lecture hours to get through. These lectures can also be very dense (~30-50 powerpoint slides per lecture hour on average?).

You'll have to find out how to make that feasible for you. Everyone has their own methods - a lot of people I know tend to struggle at the start (including me). You'll more than likely will need to change your study habits from undergrad.

There is a lot of material, but you learn and get better at naturally classifying bits and pieces of the material as whats important/less important and focus your studies.

 

[Mike Bagwell]

This isn’t great advice though... Definitely thankful I’d gone through all of FA and zanki (essentially first aid again) before dedicated because I didn’t have to spend time learning it then and could focus on questions.

To be clear, I think you misunderstood what we were saying. Nobody is saying not to use FA. It's HOW you use FA. Anybody who is using FA as a resource during basic sciences is not being efficient and is merely taking a shortcut when they should be focusing 100% on their lecture materials as they are presented. You need to learn that material not just for STEP1 but for life. FA is like the Cliffs Notes for medical school; it does not give you all the information. Judging by some of the comments from other pre-med's on this forum, they don't even know what some of these resources are, let alone how to use them.

To each their own however. Just know that FA is not a resource that can get you in the 250-260 range. I think FA is a resource for the C student who is in danger of not passing. And like I said before, the FA material alone can just get you a passing grade. You need to have substantially more knowledge before actually taking STEP1.

Like I said earlier, if you're an A student in medical school, you can skip FA altogether and just use UWORLD and make two passes of all the questions. That's a much more efficient use of your time and that will get you in the 250+ range.

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

Aren’t you an M1, Mike?

 

[Mike Bagwell]

Aren’t you an M1, Mike?

Sure. But Goro is faculty. So don't even try to go where you are trying to go. If what I am saying is incorrect in any way, any faculty member or adcom member can tell me so.

People who succeed in medical school know what they need to do in M1 and M2 and even M3 even before they start classes.

 

[ThrowawayShmoaway]

I wasn’t trying to “go” anywhere, just getting context of your viewpoint. Not using FA as a sole resource seems to be pretty sound advice that I’ve heard from a lot of sources (including Goro), but your categorical claim that no one should even be opening FA during basic sciences seems to be more person/school dependent.

 

[Mike Bagwell]

I wasn’t trying to “go” anywhere, just getting context of your viewpoint. Not using FA as a sole resource seems to be pretty sound advice that I’ve heard from a lot of sources (including Goro), but your categorical claim that no one should even be opening FA during basic sciences seems to be more person/school dependent.

That's my advice and that advice is accurate. If you want to use FA, go right ahead.

FA is not a supplement to basic sciences like some people think. That's what you need to understand. It's a short cut of sorts. Don't take short cuts in medical school. Your margin of error is slim, you can't afford it.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That's my advice and that advice is accurate. If you want to use FA, go right ahead.

FA is not a supplement to basic sciences like some people think. That's what you need to understand. It's a short cut of sorts. Don't take short cuts in medical school. Your margin of error is slim, you can't afford it.

I think you need to look up the definition of solipsism. Your advice is appreciated, but I think you may be making it a little dogmatic.

 

[Deecee2DO]

To be clear, I think you misunderstood what we were saying. Nobody is saying not to use FA. It's HOW you use FA. Anybody who is using FA as a resource during basic sciences is not being efficient and is merely taking a shortcut when they should be focusing 100% on their lecture materials as they are presented. You need to learn that material not just for STEP1 but for life. FA is like the Cliffs Notes for medical school; it does not give you all the information. Judging by some of the comments from other pre-med's on this forum, they don't even know what some of these resources are, let alone how to use them.

To each their own however. Just know that FA is not a resource that can get you in the 250-260 range. I think FA is a resource for the C student who is in danger of not passing. And like I said before, the FA material alone can just get you a passing grade. You need to have substantially more knowledge before actually taking STEP1.

Like I said earlier, if you're an A student in medical school, you can skip FA altogether and just use UWORLD and make two passes of all the questions. That's a much more efficient use of your time and that will get you in the 250+ range.

You need to use the material you learn in class for life? A. there is a decent amount of class lecture material that is not high yield for boards and B. a lot of stuff youre learning in M1 and M2 is mostly for boards and a large portion of it is brain dumped after Step 1, especially M1 material. Most of that stuff you won't use in practice/residency. I'm just playing the game so I can crush Step 1 which means studying my ass off even if its not information ill use in practice but I'm learning it for Step 1 because my score will get me where i want to go to get the clinical education that I want. Med school is hoop jumping until residency where you learn the skills you need to be an efficiency and competent physician. Step 1 will give you the foundation to understand the other stuff and the launchpad for a strong clinical education

 

[Mike Bagwell]

I think you need to look up the definition of solipsism. Your advice is appreciated, but I think you may be making it a little dogmatic.

@Matthew9Thirtyfive to be fair, you haven't started medical school so I don't think it's appropriate that when I am offering advice "from the inside" so to speak that you attempt to discredit or label it as anything but reliable just because you have been made a moderator.

I wouldn't bring up FA as a resource unless I thought it was worth discussing. When you start medical school, feel free to counter what I have been saying. Until then, you can always take my advice with a grain of salt if you feel skeptical.

I don't know how many associations you have with medical students who have recently taken STEP1 or will be studying for STEP1 but the higher the caliber of student, the less you hear about their preparation and the use of FA. But again, when you get there, report back what you see.

 

[Mike Bagwell]

You need to use the material you learn in class for life? A. there is a decent amount of class lecture material that is not high yield for boards and B. a lot of stuff youre learning in M1 and M2 is mostly for boards and a large portion of it is brain dumped after Step 1, especially M1 material. Most of that stuff you won't use in practice/residency. I'm just playing the game so I can crush Step 1 which means studying my ass off in class even if its not information ill use in practice but I'm learning it for Step 1 because my score will get me where i want to go to get the clinical education that I want. Med school is hoop jumping until residency where you learn the skills you need to be an efficiency and competent physician. Step 1 will give you the foundation to understand the other stuff and the launchpad for a strong clinical education

I highly doubt your are a medical student. Medical students don't talk like that.

 

[redsox93]

To be clear, I think you misunderstood what we were saying. Nobody is saying not to use FA. It's HOW you use FA. Anybody who is using FA as a resource during basic sciences is not being efficient and is merely taking a shortcut when they should be focusing 100% on their lecture materials as they are presented. You need to learn that material not just for STEP1 but for life. FA is like the Cliffs Notes for medical school; it does not give you all the information. Judging by some of the comments from other pre-med's on this forum, they don't even know what some of these resources are, let alone how to use them.

To each their own however. Just know that FA is not a resource that can get you in the 250-260 range. I think FA is a resource for the C student who is in danger of not passing. And like I said before, the FA material alone can just get you a passing grade. You need to have substantially more knowledge before actually taking STEP1.

Like I said earlier, if you're an A student in medical school, you can skip FA altogether and just use UWORLD and make two passes of all the questions. That's a much more efficient use of your time and that will get you in the 250+ range.

“Anybody who picks up First Aid on their first day of medical school is one of those people who DOESN'T know what they are doing. First Aid should always be looked at as a review AFTER basic sciences are completed.“

I was just replying to this point. I agree first aid is bare bones but it definitely helps knowing what to focus in on. And like I said going through it during preclinical saved me a ton of time since I barley used it at all during dedicated.