Site director "I don't give out honors"

[amakhosidlo]

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I've honored everything to date. I bust my ass. I just got through an end-of-rotation feedback session peppered with "excellent" this and "Outstanding" that. "One of the better students I've worked with". "You're clearly a rockstar". And then this: "I'm recommending you for high pass, you're very close to honors but I just don't give out honors. I can't remember the last time it happened. Sorry."

I straight up asked her at the beginning what I need to do to perform at the honors level. She said "Manage patients, follow-up on test results, etc." I did -exactly- that. I did it until I was blue in the face. I did everything she asked, and then some.

This is my medicine rotation. So...yeah, pretty F**cking important. What do you do?

 

[JasonE]

you do nothing. its 3rd year. you win some you lose some

 

[KnuxNole]

Do you wanna go into IM?

Even if you do, getting a high pass + great evals is still good. Remember, eval comments are put into the application, and can say WAY more than a high pass/honors with no comments.

Also, if you do wanna go into IM, rock a Sub-I/away rotation. Don't let a high pass bother you. It could be worse. You could have gotten a pass, or have a scarlet letter comment in your MSPE.

 

[ArcGurren]

Welcome to third year. I know an attending who only gave honors grades if students published papers in the month they were with him. You can't do much about it and just gotta make it up during either the shelf or other parts of your rotation.

 

[Tiburon]

One of the, if not the most, frustrating parts of medical school. Luck of the draw.

 

[caveat87]

It could always be worse. The only clerkship at my school that has clearly defined a numerical cutoff for "honors" has been family medicine. This leads me to believe that the assignment of honors versus high pass has no sound explanation and is based on a myriad of factors outside of my control.

PS: honors in everything but one clerkship is incredible! You are certainly having a better clinical performance than myself and most students out there. I definitely had at least one attending this year that said I did a "fantastic" job and had nothing but good things to say about going well above+beyond clerkship requirements. I later got a "high pass" from the attending so I didn't honor the clerkship despite a solid shelf score.

It taught me early on not to put too much faith in third year evaluations because at the end of the day it is all arbitrary. Call me a whiner, but I have no idea how clerkship grades have any external validity aside from identifying the sycophantic and those with a trend of pervasive avolition.

 

[amakhosidlo]

PS: honors in everything but one clerkship is incredible!

No, I've only been through 2 1/3 rotations so far, definitely not counting on honoring everything. But from what I understand, if you're going to try to honor anything, medicine should be it.

So far:

Rotation/site director: "Oh don't worry, clerkship grades are arbitrary but they don't make or break you"
Residency PD's on what matters most in applications: "Clerkship performance"

I feel like this is some sort of cruel joke/nightmare. Everyone knows clerkship grading is bullsh*t. Everyone knows the grades matter. Everyone shrugs their shoulders and accepts it as a fact of life...why exactly?

Anybody go to a school with a reasonable policy re: clerkship grading?

 

[Perrotfish]

I feel like this is some sort of cruel joke/nightmare. Everyone knows clerkship grading is bullsh*t. Everyone knows the grades matter. Everyone shrugs their shoulders and accepts it as a fact of life...why exactly?

For the same reason you accepted your MCAT score and organic chemistry grades as resonable prerequisites for medical school. For the same reason you will accept that it take exactly three years as an indentured servant in residency to transition from being a medical school graduate to an an attending. Because you have no choice.

 

[laconfidential]

I feel like this is some sort of cruel joke/nightmare. Everyone knows clerkship grading is bullsh*t. Everyone knows the grades matter. Everyone shrugs their shoulders and accepts it as a fact of life...why exactly?

This pretty much sums up life from third year till match day. Wait till 4th year and the really arbitrary process of getting interview invites. 🙁

But I feel your pain. Got a very sad "pass" in my medicine rotation despite being told I was an exceptional student who functioned like an intern. Drink away the pain and move on.

 

[caveat87]

No, I've only been through 2 1/3 rotations so far, definitely not counting on honoring everything. But from what I understand, if you're going to try to honor anything, medicine should be it.

My bad man. My school started rotations early so I am on rotation 5/7...I mistakenly assumed you were a bit further along.

Also, I think the reason why everyone shrugs their shoulders about subjective clerkship grades is that at the end of the day it is not a huge deal and it would be challenging (if not impossible) to come up with a better system.

 

[Perrotfish]

My bad man. My school started rotations early so I am on rotation 5/7...I mistakenly assumed you were a bit further along.

Also, I think the reason why everyone shrugs their shoulders about subjective clerkship grades is that at the end of the day it is not a huge deal and it would be challenging (if not impossible) to come up with a better system.

The better system would be to get rid of the stupid residency match system that makes the arbitrary grades so important, and let physicians learn on the job like they did for countless generations until they changed the rules for everyone in the early 50s.

 

[engineeredout]

We've all been there. I love the rotations where I get great comments, and then "oh I don't give out 10/10s because I don't think any student is perfect". My school could give a **** about the comments, the number scores are the only things that make up grades. Woo hoo for it being 4th year and grades don't matter.

 

[neusu]

The better system would be to get rid of the stupid residency match system that makes the arbitrary grades so important, and let physicians learn on the job like they did for countless generations until they changed the rules for everyone in the early 50s.

While I agree with your sentiment, to some degree, the system is what it is and is not going to change. It is to your advantage to know this going in to it and to work within the known system. Despite your worst nightmares, a HP or even a P in a particular field won't sand bag your entire career. There are an infinite number of other factors that play a role in residency selection, maximize those if you fall short on one clerkship.

 

[C5toC9]

The better system would be to get rid of the stupid residency match system that makes the arbitrary grades so important, and let physicians learn on the job like they did for countless generations until they changed the rules for everyone in the early 50s.

How were students matched to residency programs before the 50s?

 

[Aclamity]

We've all been there. I love the rotations where I get great comments, and then "oh I don't give out 10/10s because I don't think any student is perfect". My school could give a **** about the comments, the number scores are the only things that make up grades. Woo hoo for it being 4th year and grades don't matter.

I feel your pain. We are graded on a 9-point scale and you have to get 9/9 on 8 out of 10 areas of evaluation. Despite how good you are there are always going to be people out there who simply NEVER give anything a 9/9, regardless of if they're rating an MS3's clinical performance, a lecture from a colleague, a restaurant's cuisine, or the customer satisfaction survey at Best Buy. That's just the way those people are; they're just reluctant to say anything is "perfect," and it sucks if they happen to be grading you.

 

[link2swim06]

Got my evaluation today for IM. Had mostly normal stuff "link2swim had good knowledge base, etc." Then said "Ryan at first wasn't organized but improved through the rotation."

One problem.
My name isn't Ryan. Nobody in my rotation group is named Ryan.


Screw third year.

 

[KnuxNole]

haha, maybe you looked like a former Ryan that rotated there 😱

You can talk to your rotation director, see if they can edit that comment.

 

[swamprat]

Got my evaluation today for IM. Had mostly normal stuff "link2swim had good knowledge base, etc." Then said "Ryan at first wasn't organized but improved through the rotation."

One problem.
My name isn't Ryan. Nobody in my rotation group is named Ryan.


Screw third year.

Haha thats funny. My school or at least one of my rotations told me that they take into account the people that evaluate you and that if they are known to be a hard a** they "curve the score" - likewise if they know everyone gets perfect scores with a particular doctor. Idk how true that is though.

 

[Perrotfish]

Haha thats funny. My school or at least one of my rotations told me that they take into account the people that evaluate you and that if they are known to be a hard a** they "curve the score" - likewise if they know everyone gets perfect scores with a particular doctor. Idk how true that is though.

One of our rotations did that. Its a nice thought but it ultimately just screws you in a different way, because now rather than getting screwed if you get a hard*ss you get screwed if you get a nice guy. Because the guy who gives out all perfect scores gets rounded down to all average scores, and now you CAN'T honor, no matter what you do.

 

[VenusinFurs]

Got my evaluation today for IM. Had mostly normal stuff "link2swim had good knowledge base, etc." Then said "Ryan at first wasn't organized but improved through the rotation."

One problem.
My name isn't Ryan. Nobody in my rotation group is named Ryan.


Screw third year.

If that does show up in your dean's letter, which it won't, it's going to be obvious that your name isn't Ryan. Which is why it won't even be in your dean's letter.

 

[opthalmoplegia]

My problem is that I consistently get great evals but the ****ing shelf exams keep screwing me over. Go figure