Skip dinner on night before interview ...Is it advisable ?

[DesiDoc]

At one of the residency program they have dinner the night before the interview . I plan to skip that dinner and go directly go for the interview next day. Has anybody done that? is it advisable to do so? The reason i plan to skip dinner is I learnt that I am the only candidate interviewing on that day, so i'll be the only candidate for dinner interview and hence it will become one on one dinner interview and then i will exhaust my list of questions for the next day hospital round and lunch with the residents. I am confused what should i do. Any opinions are aapreciated. Thanks

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[Tn Family MD]

You should go to the dinner. It would be a huge red flag at our program for someone to skip the dinner the night before. And don't get too worked up over it. It's always a very relaxed environment. FM interviews are more about getting a look at your personality and seeing if you fit in with the program than evaluating how insightful your questions are.

 

[deleted87716]

The pre-interview dinner is a great opportunity for you to shine, and your absence will be noted...particularly if you're the only one interviewing that day. IMO, you skip it at your peril.

 

[elizabeth5863]

The pre-interview dinner is a great opportunity for you to shine, and your absence will be noted...particularly if you're the only one interviewing that day. IMO, you skip it at your peril.

Do residents at the pre-interview dinner have much input in deciding who gets admitted to a program? For instance, even if I "shined" at a pre-interview dinner and got along really well with the residents at a particular program, would that even help at all? I didn't think residents have much input unless if an applicant did something glaringly bad.

 

[elizabeth5863]

At one of the residency program they have dinner the night before the interview . I plan to skip that dinner and go directly go for the interview next day. Has anybody done that? is it advisable to do so? The reason i plan to skip dinner is I learnt that I am the only candidate interviewing on that day, so i'll be the only candidate for dinner interview and hence it will become one on one dinner interview and then i will exhaust my list of questions for the next day hospital round and lunch with the residents. I am confused what should i do. Any opinions are aapreciated. Thanks

I think going to the pre-interview dinner is really helpful. Often times, at the dinner, you'll meet other residents that you won't see on the interview day. You want to meet as many of the R1s and R2s as possible, particularly the R1's since they'll be the people you'll be working with for the next 2 years. Depending on who you meet, you might learn more about a program at a pre-interview dinner than the actual interview date (esp. at programs that give a lot of hospital/clinic tours and there isn't much sit-down time to ask questions). You can ask the same questions multiple times of different people since they may give differing answers. I personally think it's better to be at a pre-interview dinner by yourself than with other applicants around; you get the attention of the residents to yourself and you don't have to worry about other applicants trying to dominate or hog the conversation or feeling not good enough.

 

[Tn Family MD]

The residents at our program make the rank order list then present it to the program director for review and discussion. From what I hear, it rarely gets altered significantly from what the residents suggest.

 

[deleted87716]

Do residents at the pre-interview dinner have much input in deciding who gets admitted to a program?

I can't speak for all programs, but I can tell you that at ours, the residents who spent the most time with the applicant (which were usually the ones who went to the dinner) had the most input. Again, I think it's an opportunity not to be missed.

The ROL was also created by the residents, and approved by the faculty. It was rare for the P.D. to make any changes.

 

[NDMD]

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT skip the dinner the night before the interview. It's a great opportunity to see how you'll fit in with a few of the current residents. If nothing else, it's a free meal!!

 

[sophiejane]

As for running out of questions...I have found that the night before is a good time to ask questions that you may repeat with different residents the next day.

One of my favorities has become, "What was the deciding factor in choosing this program, the one thing above all others that tipped the scales in its favor?" It's interesting to see what people say to that. I always get a little concerned when EVERYONE says location. I know that's a big factor, but it's always a bonus when I find someone who was unattached and could have gone anywhere that chose that program over all the others.

Another good one is, "Was this program your #1 choice? What was your #2?"

Or, "What's your least favorite thing about this program?"

Also, small talk is good. Talk about your trip, your other interviews, your family, ask about theirs, talk about the city, etc. It is as much about them seeing if you are a good fit socially than anything else.

 

[sophiejane]

The ROL was also created by the residents, and approved by the faculty. It was rare for the P.D. to make any changes.

...But if you ask the residents who has the most input, they will say (as though trained to do so), "Well, Dr. X, the PD, has the final say."

Riiiiight. But we all know who has the power. It's like that t-shirt (popular among southerners in particular) that says:

"Ain't Mama (Residents) happy, Ain't NOBODY happy"

 

[elizabeth5863]

I can't speak for all programs, but I can tell you that at ours, the residents who spent the most time with the applicant (which were usually the ones who went to the dinner) had the most input. Again, I think it's an opportunity not to be missed.

The ROL was also created by the residents, and approved by the faculty. It was rare for the P.D. to make any changes.

Ugh... what if I spent a pre-interview dinner talking mostly to one of the resident's spouse? There were 5 applicants all together at the dinner with only 3 residents and 1 resident spouse. Did I hurt my chances by mostly talking to her then? (She got to know more about me than the residents did... I hope she talks to her husband). This was also the program that I liked the most out of all the ones I've seen so far too. Shoooooot.

For programs that offer a resident host the night prior to the interview, do you know how much input these residents have? Or does the program director forget to ask for these residents' opinion? I'm thinking about staying with resident hosts as much as possible because they're nice for the most part, offer a free meal and bed, and because they're able to answer questions about the program as well (which helps me in making my own rank list).

 

[DesiDoc]

Thanks everyone for your inputs ...I was about to make a big blunder by not attending the dinner ....thanks again.

 

[sophiejane]

Ugh... what if I spent a pre-interview dinner talking mostly to one of the resident's spouse? There were 5 applicants all together at the dinner with only 3 residents and 1 resident spouse. Did I hurt my chances by mostly talking to her then? (She got to know more about me than the residents did... I hope she talks to her husband). This was also the program that I liked the most out of all the ones I've seen so far too. Shoooooot.

Don't worry. It's just one part of the puzzle, and I think most married people, especially ones with spouses interested enough to attend the dinner, will discuss in detail what their impressions were.

 

[Doc Oc]

I divided up my questions.

At the dinner, I usually talked about the day to day running of the program, and what the patient pop/workload/team/call is like on each of the main rotations, and also about what the residents do for fun.

On the hospital tour, I ask about procedures, electives, and the relationship with the hospital staff and local docs. If I run out of questions, I ask what they do for fun.

At lunch, I ask about didactics, CME, how some things are taught on the wards, when residents have opportunities to teach, and, of course, what they like to do for fun.

At the clinic tour, i ask, um, questions about, yep, clinic. And if I run out...

There seems to always be an interview with the behavioral specialist - so I ask him/her about the community medicine education and what opportunities to work with underserved populations, do home visits, or anything else unique I read about on their website.

Each faculty gets assigned a basic topic based on their profile on the website, or randomly if I didn't get to know who I'd be interviewing with ahead of time. So one person gets asked about the rural training, international or away electives, OB and the relationship with the local OB docs, etc.

I always ask the same 8-9 questions of the program director, and I save them for him/her so that I am not out.

So, again, when I am out of questions, I always ask about things that will make the residents (hopefully) smile or feel happy, and talking about fun things, how the area is for families, etc or about things that they can sound like helpful experts in, like housing is where I go to. So far, I've had six interviews and have always had a few questions for everyone. I do repeat sometimes, but not if I haven't asked all of my questions yet, and not if I haven't learned something personal about the person that I'm with that lets me know more about them as a person rather than as just some dude interviewing me.

Who knows if this is useful for anyone else, but it helped me to always hit all of my important points, to always have something to ask about, and to not draw a blank at the beginning of an interview if I am asked "Do you have any questions" right after I sit down.

 

[elizabeth5863]

Who knows if this is useful for anyone else, but it helped me to always hit all of my important points, to always have something to ask about, and to not draw a blank at the beginning of an interview if I am asked "Do you have any questions" right after I sit down.

It was very helpful to hear your approach to it. Thanks for sharing! I didn't think of dividing up questions for certain parts of the interview day like that, but doing so would help me not miss the questions I definitely want to ask.

 

[secretwave101]

I think the importance of the dinner is overstated here. About half the residents come and half don't to our dinners. We don't keep track of who comes and who doesn't. There's no "red flag" for those who don't. It's informal. It's optional. We say that, and it's actually true. I guess some programs say that but don't really mean it. Freaky, in my opinion.

That said, the dinner can be very helpful to YOU. That is, it won't affect your chances much of getting a spot with the program, but it can give you some valuable insight about the program and how you'd fit in. It's a time when the residents do actually let their guard down a little, so you get some good perspective on how the program works.

So I recommend going to the dinners of the programs you KNOW you're interested in, and skipping the ones you're only moderately interested in. Dinners are tiresome. Unstated is the fact that you can't necessarily help your cause at them, but you sure can hurt it (i.e. get naked and dance on the table = DNR for sure).

 

[deleted87716]

I recommend going to the dinners of the programs you KNOW you're interested in, and skipping the ones you're only moderately interested in. Dinners are tiresome. Unstated is the fact that you can't necessarily help your cause at them, but you sure can hurt it (i.e. get naked and dance on the table = DNR for sure).

Well, if anyone is that stupid, they'll probably torpedo themselves some other way.

But, seriously...how are you supposed to know which programs you "know you're interested in" and which ones you're only "moderately interested in" before you interview?

 

[secretwave101]

Maybe you've been off the great trail in the sky too long, Kent. EVERYONE I talk to is exhausted with the dinners by late January. I surely was. Our dinner attendence dramatically drops by the end of Jan also.

And these days, there isn't much to look into at the program itself that you
can't find online. I knew exactly which programs I was focused on, which ones were "2nd tier" and which ones I'd applied to as "safety" programs. Actually being there and hearing the same lines from all the residents did little to change my mind one way or another.

I do have a problem with programs who advertise "optional" dinners, and then count it as a Major Red Flag when you don't show up. If it's optional, it should have no bearing on your acceptance chances. It's a paternalistic, degrading superstitious Big Brother mentality that really needs to retire along with the 120 hour work-week. It's like you need Miranda Rights regarding the applicant dinner:

"You have the right to remain in your hotel room for the applicant dinner. Anything you say during the dinner can and will be used against you in the court of applicant ranking. Since you probably can't afford dinner, one is being provided for you. However, understand that your interview just started 24 hours earlier than is technically stated on your itinerary. Also understand that some programs are using the disarming notions of 'optional' and 'laid back' to trick you into exposing personality flaws such as uninterest, fatigue, or - worst of all - the duplicity of taking people for their word. If any of these sins are possibly contained in your human being, understand that you will be regarded by many to have exposed them by not attending said dinner."

Or, you could hold in disdain any program that plays such B.S. games and decide that if a program drops you in their rank list for not attending something that is "optional", then you may not be happy there anyway.

 

[secretwave101]

Maybe you've been off the great trail in the sky too long, Kent. EVERYONE I talk to is exhausted with the dinners by late January. I surely was. Our dinner attendence dramatically drops by the end of Jan also.

And these days, there isn't much to look into at the program itself that you
can't find online. I knew exactly which programs I was focused on, which ones were "2nd tier" and which ones I'd applied to as "safety" programs. Actually being there and hearing the same lines from all the residents did little to change my mind one way or another.

I do have a problem with programs who advertise "optional" dinners, and then count it as a Major Red Flag when you don't show up. If it's optional, it should have no bearing on your acceptance chances. It's a paternalistic, degrading superstitious Big Brother mentality that really needs to retire along with the 120 hour work-week. It's like you need Miranda Rights regarding the applicant dinner:

"You have the right to remain in your hotel room for the applicant dinner. Anything you say during the dinner can and will be used against you in the court of applicant ranking. Since you probably can't afford dinner, one is being provided for you. However, understand that your interview just started 24 hours earlier than is technically stated on your itinerary. Also understand that some programs are using the disarming notions of 'optional' and 'laid back' to trick you into exposing personality flaws such as uninterest, fatigue, or - worst of all - the duplicity of taking people for their word. If any of these sins are possibly contained in your human being, understand that you will be regarded by many to have exposed them by not attending said dinner."

Or, you could hold in disdain any program that plays such B.S. games and decide that if a program drops you in their rank list for not attending something that is "optional", then you may not be happy there anyway.

 

[deleted87716]

EVERYONE I talk to is exhausted with the dinners by late January. I surely was. Our dinner attendence dramatically drops by the end of Jan also.

That's fine, but it's early December...

I haven't met too many FM applicants who "exhausted" themselves interviewing. It's not like you're applying to derm or something.

As for the residents at the programs, most of them enjoy interviewing (and/or eating out for free), otherwise they wouldn't sign up for dinners. If a program forces residents to attend dinners, they're asking for trouble.

I've been out of residency for five years, but I don't have Alzheimer's.

 

[secretwave101]

Yeah, I was talking about applicants. Not us residents. Typically we like the dinners....note comment about free food!

 

[VuDOo]

EVERYONE I talk to is exhausted with the dinners by late January.

I completely disagree. I doubt they are exhausted by the dinners. They are more than likely tired of the whole interview process. After my third interview, I was tired of traveling and asking the same questions over and over and basically getting the same answers.

The dinners are the best part of the interview. In my opinion, the dinner is the best place to get the "real" info about the program. You can tell a lot about the program by the attitudes and interaction of the residents at the dinner.

 

[slim shanie]

I agree with you Vudoo... the dinners the night before are the best part of the process. the exhausting part comes from the hours of interviewing, regardless of what you go into. The questions aren't tough, mind you, but being the center of attention for several hours makes you sleepy!

 

[Doc Oc]

After six interviews, I noticed that I started feeling a bit like a machine at the beginning of the day, and my face hurt from smiling and talking at the end. I decided that I found 3 good fits and seemed to get a positive response, so I removed the batteries and quit interviewing

However, I could go to the dinners all year. I met some great people and had alot of fun.

 

[confused_amused]

Agreed that the dinner are the best part of the interview process, it really seemed to be indicative of how well I thought that i'd fit in at the programs... and let me meet more residents than I otherwise would.

I personally, and a lot of people i've talked to, are cancelling interviews because they're so draining. I went on 5 interviews early in the interview season, had 2 others scheduled that i cancelled and another i chose not to set up. 6-8 hour interviews are incredibly long days. Especially when you do 2 or 3 in a week.

As for running out of questions because you went to the dinner and asked most of them, i asked some repeat questions the next day... sometimes you get a different answer. As long as you ask questions and seem interested in all aspects of the interview, seems like its a good idea.