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Skip fellowship?
- Thread starter auntminirads07
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I know an attending who did a year of breast fellowship during his 4th year. He got a job for 2 years in Connecticut, then recently relocated to a very good private practice group to do probably 70% breast and 30% general. He graduated from a program across town.
He's literally the only person I have ever heard of making it without fellowship in the past 5 years.
He's literally the only person I have ever heard of making it without fellowship in the past 5 years.
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so 4th year was pretty chill before CORE was implemented?
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This guy graduated in 2013 btw. Last class pre-core it sounds like.
It depends on how you look at it. It seems like CORE is shifting everything back to a 3+2. My current program has completely switched to that model, with most people doing 12 months in one specialty and 12 months in another after graduation, thus completing residency and 2 "fellowships" in 5 years.
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cowme
100%. Unless you are doing IR, no fellowship is really critical to being competent in any field. Granted you'll be weaker starting out than if you were fellowship trained, but if you busted your butt to read, combined with experience, I doubt it makes a difference down the line.
But the end game here is the job, not the fellowship, so why think twice about it?
But the end game here is the job, not the fellowship, so why think twice about it?
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Only interviewed at one program that had a resident going straight to practice-place he had already moonlighted extensively with, sounded like a good gig.
Pretty rare these days overall.
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Pretty rare these days overall.
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It depends on the fellowship.
Breast fellowship is an exception because of relative shortage of breast imagers which will change in the near future. Otherwise, most groups won't hire a non-fellowship trained radiologist. It is necessarily not about the skills, it is also for marketing purposes.
A non-fellowship trained radiologist may be as good as a neuroradiologist but he/she has to spend twice as much energy and time to prove himself/herself to neurosurgeons and neurologists. In fact, many groups may not let you interpret the images that are ordered by neurosurgeons or neurologist if you are not fellowship trained.
Example: In our group all the MSK studies ordered by orthopods and rheumatologists and all MSK MRI is read by fellowship trained rads. Similarly, most neuro studies ordered by neurosurgeons and neurologists are read by fellowship trained people.
In summary, if the fellowship is IR, Neuro or MSK it will make difference even 10 years down the road if you want to change jobs. For academics also you need to be fellowship trained. The benefit of the fellowship in the long run is less for mammo, body, chest and Nucs.
One year of fellowship is no big deal and in most places you can do moonlighting and make more money and gain some experience. Taking into account the benefits that you can gain by doing one year of fellowship, I say it is worth it.
I still don't understand why people make such a big deal about doing one year of fellowship.
Breast fellowship is an exception because of relative shortage of breast imagers which will change in the near future. Otherwise, most groups won't hire a non-fellowship trained radiologist. It is necessarily not about the skills, it is also for marketing purposes.
A non-fellowship trained radiologist may be as good as a neuroradiologist but he/she has to spend twice as much energy and time to prove himself/herself to neurosurgeons and neurologists. In fact, many groups may not let you interpret the images that are ordered by neurosurgeons or neurologist if you are not fellowship trained.
Example: In our group all the MSK studies ordered by orthopods and rheumatologists and all MSK MRI is read by fellowship trained rads. Similarly, most neuro studies ordered by neurosurgeons and neurologists are read by fellowship trained people.
In summary, if the fellowship is IR, Neuro or MSK it will make difference even 10 years down the road if you want to change jobs. For academics also you need to be fellowship trained. The benefit of the fellowship in the long run is less for mammo, body, chest and Nucs.
One year of fellowship is no big deal and in most places you can do moonlighting and make more money and gain some experience. Taking into account the benefits that you can gain by doing one year of fellowship, I say it is worth it.
I still don't understand why people make such a big deal about doing one year of fellowship.
Because it's a PGY7 year. People are thirsty for cold, hard cash.
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cowme
In this hypothetical scenario, the group wouldn't care about marketing the fellowship and the other restrictions. I'm sure small groups can't be that restrictive anyway so those arguments aren't exactly all encompassing.
If this truly is a dream job and actually exists, take it and don't think twice about it.
If this truly is a dream job and actually exists, take it and don't think twice about it.
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What you read is very locale and group dependent. Large cities/desirable locales probably will have larger groups with subspecialists in every area. So you may never read an MSK or neuro MRI ever again if you did not do a fellowship in that area. In midsized or smaller cities, you may read everything, whether you want to or not. There are groups that still read OB ultrasound and cardiac nucs for example. Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to pigeonhole yourself in one area. You can't predict what will happen in 10 years. It's better to have general skills with a concentration in a few areas. I do think it is critical to do a fellowship in this current climate.
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wait I'm not following you here. you don't get fellowship certification for mini-fellowships, right?
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Not every subspecialty has a certification.
http://www.theabr.org/abr-radiology-specialties-and-subspecialties
If you're coming from a Top program (™), 12 months in one speciality that doesn't have a certificate, it can be as good as having done that fellowship. Notably, MSK and Abdominal don't.
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To give you another perspective:
Even in a group that everyone reads everything and these groups also exist even in large cities, everyone has to bring something to the table. It is always good to have a skill that is needed by the group.
There are some radiologists that are not fellowship trained and are better than the fellowship trained ones. But in the current environment that everyone does a fellowship, it is very bad to be seen as a non-fellowship trained radiologist in a group. Like it or not.
Also fellowship provides you with a network that you can barely have it by not doing a fellowship. For example, being trained with some Gurus in the field, being in contact with them by emailing them or seeing them in meetings and CMEs, having a mentor in the field and knowing other people in your field is not easily achievable without doing a fellowship.
Even if doing a fellowship seems useless to you, in the current environment you need to do it.
Even in a group that everyone reads everything and these groups also exist even in large cities, everyone has to bring something to the table. It is always good to have a skill that is needed by the group.
There are some radiologists that are not fellowship trained and are better than the fellowship trained ones. But in the current environment that everyone does a fellowship, it is very bad to be seen as a non-fellowship trained radiologist in a group. Like it or not.
Also fellowship provides you with a network that you can barely have it by not doing a fellowship. For example, being trained with some Gurus in the field, being in contact with them by emailing them or seeing them in meetings and CMEs, having a mentor in the field and knowing other people in your field is not easily achievable without doing a fellowship.
Even if doing a fellowship seems useless to you, in the current environment you need to do it.
