SLOE Questions

Discussion in 'Emergency Medicine' started by AlwaysOnDivert, Mar 18, 2017.

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  1. AlwaysOnDivert

    AlwaysOnDivert

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    Jan 20, 2017
    Apologies if this question has already been asked, or if I'm posting in the wrong forum.

    I'm a 3rd year DO student, been planning on going EM before even getting into med school. To keep my options open, I'm planning on doing 4th year rotations at both MD and DO programs. Will MD programs accept SLOEs obtained from a DO program? Will they be given less weight if they aren't from an MD program? Will DO programs accept MD SLOEs?

    Thanks for taking the time to read/respond!
     
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  3. BoardingDoc

    BoardingDoc Don't worry. I've got my towel. 7+ Year Member

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    If you are rotating at an MD EM program, they will write a SLOE for you after your rotation is over. If you rotate at a DO EM program, you can get a regular letter, but they are not allowed to write SLOEs.
     
  4. AlwaysOnDivert

    AlwaysOnDivert

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    Jan 20, 2017
    Is this also true for DO programs that have accreditation or "Initial Accreditation" status from the ACGME? Still trying to sort out how the merger affects various things.
     
  5. BoardingDoc

    BoardingDoc Don't worry. I've got my towel. 7+ Year Member

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    If they're ACGME accredited, they can write SLOEs. I don't know about initial accreditation
     
  6. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director Gold Donor

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    DO programs have been writing SLOEs for years. Their PDs are members of CORD, who developed, edits, and publishes the SLOE for each year. Some DO programs traditionally choose not to participate in writing SLOEs (I have my suspicions why), but I assure you, they are "allowed" to write SLOEs. The ACGME doesn't regulate SLOE writing, ACGME accredidation has nothing to do with who should or shouldn't write a SLOE.
     
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  7. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director Gold Donor

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    "Will MD programs accept SLOEs obtained from a DO program? Will they be given less weight if they aren't from an MD program? Will DO programs accept MD SLOEs?"

    I can only speak for myself, but I don't care where the SLOE comes from. I care mostly about the competitiveness breakdown to put the students raking into some kind of context. What percentage of people are rated top 10%, top 1/3, mid 1/3, low 1/3. There are some really big name places that over-inflate their SLOE rankings (ex 30% top 10, 50% top 1/3, 20% mid 1/3, 0% low 1/3), and some community hospitals that are really tough graders and hit a more normal distribution. It doesn't matter to me whether the program is an AOA or ACGME program when I look at the SLOE.
     
  8. AlwaysOnDivert

    AlwaysOnDivert

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    Jan 20, 2017
    Awesome, thanks! Follow up question: I'm doing an EM rotation through my school at the end of this year. The hospital has residency programs and is owned by a university health system, but this particular hospital doesn't have an EM residency. I take it they cannot write a SLOE for me?
     
  9. BoardingDoc

    BoardingDoc Don't worry. I've got my towel. 7+ Year Member

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    That's interesting if correct. I freely admit that I'm basing my statement off of DO students I've spoken with who have said that their programs required them to rotate at ACGME programs if they needed a SLOE. Apparently this is not a universal DO thing
     
  10. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director Gold Donor

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    It's possible some ACGME programs want to see SLOEs from other ACGME programs, because it indicates you are likely doing the ACGME match, not the AOA match. I also suspect that the reason some DO programs don't write SLOEs is because in the DO match, its not as necessary at some programs to have a SLOE to match (but it is at the competitive DO programs). So by not writing SLOEs for candidates, it hurts the candidates competitiveness at bigger DO residencies, and it kills their chances in the ACGME match. Obviously, that is 100% PURE SPECULATION and I have no proof of that, but I for the life of me can't understand why a residency program would otherwise tell rotating students they don't write SLOEs because "you don't need them to match AOA". Well, you do at many AOA programs, and not every student wants to match AOA. So to me, it seems self serving to do this as a program. Maybe there's other reasons, but I can't think of any.
     
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  11. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director Gold Donor

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    They can, but its discouraged by CORD. Anyone can download the SLOE form and fill it out. Its not like you have to have some secret login to obtain it (although you do if you use the E-SLOE which most use now, because it automatically tracks your stats for you). So technically anyone can download the form and fill it out. What they can't do is, honestly answer the last question, which states where do you anticipate this student being on your rank list, and unfortunately, this is probably the most important question on the form.

    If you can get two SLOEs from two places with a residency program, I'd try and do so. Use the one at your home institution as a 3rd one. If you can't, then at least get a 2nd at a place with a residency.
     
  12. BoardingDoc

    BoardingDoc Don't worry. I've got my towel. 7+ Year Member

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    Appreciate the info. Thanks for clarifying.
     
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  13. Lexdiamondz

    Lexdiamondz 5+ Year Member

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    I wouldn't roll the dice on a SLOE from an Osteopathic programme if my goal was to match ACGME. ACGME program directors may not be familiar with SLOE writers from DO programmes and that may not work in your favour depending on what region you're planning on applying in or hoping to break into.
     
  14. gamerEMdoc

    gamerEMdoc Associate PD; EM Clerkship Director Gold Donor

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    Depends on the ACGME program. I mean, to be honest, there are like 200 programs. If you tell me a random community ED program from the other side of the country, I can't tell you if that's a DO program or an ACGME program. If you are applying to mostly community EM programs, I think a SLOE from an AOA program would be fine. But yeah, if you are 100% going the ACGME route, probably best to get ACGME SLOEs.

    Re: SLOEs and where they come from, in my opinion, assuming the rank is the same (top 10, top 1/3, etc), then in my mind I weight the SLOE as follows:
    1. Well known place that doesn't inflate their grades
    2. Place that doesn't inflate their grades but isn't a big name place.
    3. Big name place with grade inflation
    4. No name place with grade inflation

    That's how, in my mind, I think about the quality of a SLOE, taking into account the prestige of the institution, and how they do or don't over inflate their SLOE scoring. Obviously, this is one persons opinion, take that for what its worth.
     

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