Small Animal Rotating Internship Thoughts and Experiences?

[ilovedogzzzzz]

Hi all, I hope you are staying safe and healthy! Sorry if there's already a thread on this and I missed it.

I am curious about your thoughts and experiences with small animal rotating internships. I'm currently in my first year of vet school and am undecided as to whether I want to specialize after graduation. At this point, I'm just trying to take it all in and learn as much as I can. I'm 98% sure that I want to work with small animals and Neuro and Behavior have piqued my interest so far.

For those of you who have completed or are completing SA rotating internships, what have your experiences been like? What kinds of experiences do you wish you would've had in vet school prior? What questions would you have asked? What have you liked about your program? Disliked? What else!?

My main concerns at this point, unfortunately, are related to finances post-grad due to loan burden. I was a non-traditional applicant coming in, so am already on the Income Based Repayment, but I'm still worried about it!

Thank you!

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[Kota1000]

I’m curious about this too. SA Internal medicine and SA critical care are my interests, but I know for IM you have to do a general small animal internship, not sure about critical care, but it’s probably the same.

 

[SocialStigma]

Hi all, I hope you are staying safe and healthy! Sorry if there's already a thread on this and I missed it.

I am curious about your thoughts and experiences with small animal rotating internships. I'm currently in my first year of vet school and am undecided as to whether I want to specialize after graduation. At this point, I'm just trying to take it all in and learn as much as I can. I'm 98% sure that I want to work with small animals and Neuro and Behavior have piqued my interest so far.

For those of you who have completed or are completing SA rotating internships, what have your experiences been like? What kinds of experiences do you wish you would've had in vet school prior? What questions would you have asked? What have you liked about your program? Disliked? What else!?

My main concerns at this point, unfortunately, are related to finances post-grad due to loan burden. I was a non-traditional applicant coming in, so am already on the Income Based Repayment, but I'm still worried about it!

Thank you!

I completed an internship at a private practice with the intent of specializing in surgery. I highly enjoyed my internship year but a lot of that had to do with my internmates and supportive clinicians. I did my research and completed 4 externships at the clinic I ended up matching to, so I had plenty of opportunity to ask current interns questions, see how interns were treated, get to know the clinicians, etc. The main advantage my internship program had that I liked was that interns were never alone on ER overnight - there was always at least 1 other ER vet in the building. Also as a surgeon wannabe, it was great that there were no surgery residents because it meant that as a rotating intern, I was opening and closing stifles/abdomens, performing simple surgeries (FB, hemoabdomen, etc) under supervision by the end of my internship. I had more surgical experience coming out of my rotating internship compared to residents who did an academic internship. Only thing I disliked was that because there were no residents, interns were on call 24/7 when they were on a specialty block (eg. if I was on a 4 week neuro rotation, I was on call 24/7 for that entire time).

An internship does not prepare you all that well for life in GP, so I would not recommend completing one and taking on more debt if you don't think you will specialize. Also, it's important to have exposure to your specialties of interest during your internship to obtain LORs for residencies..most internship programs will have neurologists but another consideration is whether they are medical or surgical neurologists (since most neuro residencies now include neurosurg). Pretty uncommon for a behaviourist to work out of a referral practice so ideally find an internship program with a behaviourist in the area with whom you can complete elective rotations with, if that's where you're leaning.

I’m curious about this too. SA Internal medicine and SA critical care are my interests, but I know for IM you have to do a general small animal internship, not sure about critical care, but it’s probably the same.

ECC requires completion of a rotating internship as well (or "equivalent clinical practice", depending on the program).

 

[battie]

@pinkpuppy9 is doing an internship now. I believe @nyanko did one too

 

[nyanko]

I did a rotating internship, because you have to in order to specialize for the most part. If I didn't want to specialize I would not have done one. You can DM me if you'd like to discuss my experience. With any internship you will work hard and feel crappy, but there are definite differences in how interested the institution is in your learning vs having warm bodies to work ER overnights.

 

[allygator13]

I completed an academic small animal rotating internship last year, and overall had a good experience there. Similar to above posters, I did it because you basically have to in order to specialize in a streamlined way (as opposed to doing several years in GP/private practice before a residency). I'm happy to discuss specifics of my particular program and my likes and dislikes if anyone wants to PM me!

 

[JaynaAli]

I did one at a private practice. It’s not “required” for my specialty, but it’s desirable and that was really the only suggestion places gave me to better my application when I was rejected for a residency while still a 4th year. I agree with the others. Do one if you’re planning to specialize. It’s probably not worth it if you’re going to be a GP since some things you learn for specialty and ER medicine are not the same skills as you’d need in general practice. Internship sucked when I was going through it, but I learned a lot and now that I’m on the opposite side of it I don’t regret it. You couldn’t ever ever ever convince me to go be an intern again at this point, but I don’t regret it and I do think it makes me a better pathologist then I would have been without it.

 

[that redhead]

as opposed to doing several years in GP/private practice before a residency

And this is becoming more and more rare; programs are leaning away from candidates with practice experience versus internship for fear of "bad habits" (which I think is SO silly - even if there are bad habits, you're there to learn so train them in the "right" way!) And no one wants to go from a practicing vet salary back to an intern salary, even for a year, if you decide you want to specialize later.

Like others have said, if you decide to work in general practice, my personal opinion is to forego an internship. But that's as someone who went straight from school into practice And you have a lot of time to see how things develop and where your interests land.

 

[Angelo84]

And this is becoming more and more rare; programs are leaning away from candidates with practice experience versus internship for fear of "bad habits" (which I think is SO silly - even if there are bad habits, you're there to learn so train them in the "right" way!) And no one wants to go from a practicing vet salary back to an intern salary, even for a year, if you decide you want to specialize later.

Like others have said, if you decide to work in general practice, my personal opinion is to forego an internship. But that's as someone who went straight from school into practice And you have a lot of time to see how things develop and where your interests land.

I did a internship with a private practice that I felt was very valuable and balanced. I was debating on specializing ( IM vs ECC). I did not end up doing so because I realized I could do what I wanted — ER associate — without doing a residency and prefer receiving and do not like managing which is often a large part of a criticalist job. I personally feel that an internship makes you a stronger doctor on those emergent and critical cases but if you are going into small animal gp and have ecc options nearby you won’t be managing those cases that often and is very reasonable to go straight to a gp position. If anyone wants to discuss details further feel free to message me.

 

[that redhead]

I personally feel that an internship makes you a stronger doctor on those emergent and critical cases but if you are going into small animal gp and have ecc options nearby you won’t be managing those cases that often and is very reasonable to go straight to a gp position.

I guess it depends how you define “stronger doctor” in those scenarios.

 

[Minnerbelle]

For those who want to specialize and/or go into ER, I think an internship is totally reasonable. Like you don’t need to worry about having wasted opportunity costs. You can go into ER without an internship M, but your options can be more limited starting out.

For those going into GP, it’s kinda like do whatever the **** you feel like. Those who didn’t never regret forgoing an internship. Those who did always feel like it was worth it. So, eh? That probably means it really doesn’t matter. If you’re going to have FOMO, then do it. If you want to most efficiently become an independent GP doc, maybe forgo the internship and work at a high quality multi doctor GP with plenty of other good doctors to consult with on a regular basis. It’s quite likely that you’ll be behind on surgical and dental skills and management of chronic cases which are your bread and butter if you do an internship. If you’re not sure what you want to be when you grow up, then maybe do an internship. If potentially earning $70k extra in your first year of practice, and maybe $20k extra hours second year (from developing clientele and surgical caseload) sound good to you, then skip the internship. Internships really don’t help your earning potential in GP.

 

[Angelo84]

I guess it depends how you define “stronger doctor” in those scenarios.

Stronger doctor in that I think that having an increased case load of sick cases ( vs mix of sick and wellness in GP) improves your comfort level with recognizing disease patterns, experience with procedures, and confidence speaking with clients in those situations. For instance I saw ten pericardial effusion cases during my internship—I would be surprised if a gp would see that many in a year. Having that concentrated caseload gets you comfortable faster than if you only see x presentation once a year. That is not to say that gp doesn’t see sick pets— they do but the frequency of given cases is different. There is a different focus to the skill sets in general practice vs ER. In many ways a good general practice has a wider case load for example I love the GPs that are awesome at all the stuff Like the chronic skin and dental procedures that I dislike!

 

[that redhead]

Stronger doctor in that I think that having an increased case load of sick cases ( vs mix of sick and wellness in GP) improves your comfort level with recognizing disease patterns, experience with procedures, and confidence speaking with clients in those situations. For instance I saw ten pericardial effusion cases during my internship—I would be surprised if a gp would see that many in a year. Having that concentrated caseload gets you comfortable faster than if you only see x presentation once a year. That is not to say that gp doesn’t see sick pets— they do but the frequency of given cases is different. There is a different focus to the skill sets in general practice vs ER. In many ways a good general practice has a wider case load for example I love the GPs that are awesome at all the stuff Like the chronic skin and dental procedures that I dislike!

You can have all the pericardial effusions and I will do all of the dental work

 

[Ariel-Li]

I did a internship with a private practice that I felt was very valuable and balanced. I was debating on specializing ( IM vs ECC). I did not end up doing so because I realized I could do what I wanted — ER associate — without doing a residency and prefer receiving and do not like managing which is often a large part of a criticalist job. I personally feel that an internship makes you a stronger doctor on those emergent and critical cases but if you are going into small animal gp and have ecc options nearby you won’t be managing those cases that often and is very reasonable to go straight to a gp position. If anyone wants to discuss details further feel free to message me.

Hi, this might be too early - I'm a C/O 2025 hopeful - but being a non-trad I'm trying to plan ahead of time. I'm also most interested in IM vs. ECC. One thing I never really figure out is, if I decide not to be a criticalist, do I benefit doing a rotating internship before working in ER? I know some ER doctors get the job fresh out of school, without a horrible internship year.

Another question is, if I want to leave my options open regarding specializing, is research experience in vet school helpful? Or shall I devote more time and energy shadowing in the teaching hospital?

 

[VIN-Foundation]

One thing I never really figure out is, if I decide not to be a criticalist, do I benefit doing a rotating internship before working in ER?

Yes, I think so. There are exceptions but in general I think a private emergency clinic is a poor fit for most new grads.

Another question is, if I want to leave my options open regarding specializing, is research experience in vet school helpful? Or shall I devote more time and energy shadowing in the teaching hospital?

It depends on the residency, but having some research experience is going to be better than no research experience because many residences have a least a small component of research. And it's a significant part of some residences. I think shadowing in the teaching hospital is not going to add a whole lot compared to your hospital rotations.

 

[Angelo84]

Hi, this might be too early - I'm a C/O 2025 hopeful - but being a non-trad I'm trying to plan ahead of time. I'm also most interested in IM vs. ECC. One thing I never really figure out is, if I decide not to be a criticalist, do I benefit doing a rotating internship before working in ER? I know some ER doctors get the job fresh out of school, without a horrible internship year.

Another question is, if I want to leave my options open regarding specializing, is research experience in vet school helpful? Or shall I devote more time and energy shadowing in the teaching hospital?

I believe that if you want to do ER that doing a internship is beneficial. There may be a few new grads that can jump into ER off the bat but I think not that many places are setup to take new grads on ER and train them vs just throwing a warm body into the mix and hoping for the best. Do they exist— yes are there many—no.

I think that the internship year doesn’t have to be a horrible year and indeed a good internship shouldn’t be a horrible year. Will you work longer hours and get paid less than an associate—yes. I was picky in my job hunt and that has paid off. Some things to think about in evaluating a internship or job offer:

What is the schedule like? 6 days?5days/week? 4days/week? Work 6 days and required rounds/journal club is day seven? On call—for surgeries?scope? Backup on the floor? Are those days clumped or spread out? Which do you like—working a stretch and then a clump off or never having a “long” week? Are you on a internal medicine rotation but still work Saturday overnight ER—-ie mixing specialist and ER coverage? In my opinion you should still have at least one day off and out of the hospital a week if this is a associate position more. Ie not needing to come in for rounds,not on call, not working that night. Ask how much time on primary receiving you have vs time shadowing specialists. How much of the year is overnights vs day vs swing? How much elective time is there? Do they have a specialist in your chosen area of interest or if not is there elective time you can use for that? How much overlap of doctors is there—multiple doctors on at a time helps spread the load, you will likely be on alone at night—-but is that all the time? After 6 or 9 or after midnight? Do you have someone you can call with questions on cases or are you left without support until morning?

Depending on your goals “good” answers to those questions may vary. Ie if you want to do ER a good chunk of time in ER vs with specialist is good. If you really have your heart set on a dermatology residency maybe more time with specialists/more elective time is helpful. If you want a residency often a true rotating internship is what they are looking for if looking at ER could do either rotating or ECC internship just look to see if they accept new grads.
See the VIRMP website if you have no idea what I am talking about.

I personally think a mix of time with other doctorand time alone is helpful to make you trust yourself. But having phone back up is great. I still occasionally call my criticalists on cases that are crumping to see if they have any pearls of advice— although it is sometimes disheartening to hear keep doing what your doing when what your doing is not making any headway! We also have two locations so can phone a friend if it’s something I don’t want to wake a criticalist for but want someone’s thoughts. Often just talking through the case can be helpful.

I highly recommend getting contact info for current/prior interns and would also consider getting associate info and emailing them. Ideally you would do a externship during fourth year at places you think you like— you may find you love it or it may be different than you expect. Covid has made that a lot harder but hopefully will be better soon.

Hope that helps! Happy to talk specifics about the practice I work for if you message me.

as far as research I think most residencies require a publication not sure if that can be from prior to the residency or not! Research time doesn’t hurt—especially if you found something more clinical in a area of interest.

 

[stealthoscope]

Hi, this might be too early - I'm a C/O 2025 hopeful - but being a non-trad I'm trying to plan ahead of time. I'm also most interested in IM vs. ECC. One thing I never really figure out is, if I decide not to be a criticalist, do I benefit doing a rotating internship before working in ER? I know some ER doctors get the job fresh out of school, without a horrible internship year.

Another question is, if I want to leave my options open regarding specializing, is research experience in vet school helpful? Or shall I devote more time and energy shadowing in the teaching hospital?

There are some ER-specific internships that you can attend after graduating vet school that are more like "boot camps" for emergency medicine, for those planning to become ER doctors but not to specialize in ECC. If you are at all considering specializing in ECC and trying to decide whether to do that or become an ER doctor, I would highly recommend a rotating internship. I learned so much during my rotating internship, and would not have felt confident or comfortable doing full-time emergency on my own right after graduation.

 

[aspiringvet54]

hey everyone quick question... I'm entering my first year of vet school and wanting to specialize in SA surgery and hope to end up in academia.., Im curious does one have to do an internship at a vet school to then be considered for residency positions at a vet school? Or is someone from a private practice internship just as competitive of an applicant as someone coming from the same position but at a vet school?

 

[SocialStigma]

hey everyone quick question... I'm entering my first year of vet school and wanting to specialize in SA surgery and hope to end up in academia.., Im curious does one have to do an internship at a vet school to then be considered for residency positions at a vet school? Or is someone from a private practice internship just as competitive of an applicant as someone coming from the same position but at a vet school?

No, you don't have to complete your rotating internship at a school in order to match to a residency position in academia. I'm a surgeon and did my rotating internship in private practice, but matched to an academic residency. So did my residentmate and many others I know in the field!

 

[aspiringvet54]

No, you don't have to complete your rotating internship at a school in order to match to a residency position in academia. I'm a surgeon and did my rotating internship in private practice, but matched to an academic residency. So did my residentmate and many others I know in the field!

That’s awesome to hear! My school much like others has already told us first years that they don’t take their own students as interns (but are happy to for residencies) so I was starting to think about it since I’ll have to go elsewhere. Thanks for the info!

 

[VIN-Foundation]

My school much like others has already told us first years that they don’t take their own students as interns (but are happy to for residencies) so I was starting to think about it since I’ll have to go elsewhere.

Just in case, make sure the information about not taking their own students is coming from a reliable source. For years, I hear our students say we don't take our own students ... and it's entirely false. When I ask them who told them that, they can never remember.

 

[aspiringvet54]

Just in case, make sure the information about not taking their own students is coming from a reliable source. For years, I hear our students say we don't take our own students ... and it's entirely false. When I ask them who told them that, they can never remember.

Thanks for that heads up! I would love to stay here for my internship tbh lol but they were very explicit in their program showcase this last spring semester that they don’t take their students as interns.