Smartphone audio recording left on leads to patient suing anesthesia

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http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/04/22/67225.htm

We all are guilty of stuff we say in the Or various out of OR locations like endo.

My real question is why is anesthesia company being sued? Where is GI doc in all this? Did GI docs throw anesthesia under the bus?

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Personally I never talk about the patient like that. NEVER. And if I'm in the room and people start up I tell them politely to stop the first time. If it continues then I tell them to knock it the **** off.

There's no excuse for this kind of behavior. Reprehensible. We all have difficult patients. Take your frustrations out elsewhere.

Now, the real question though is did this guy do this intentionally? That's my bet. My other bet is that they settle out of court.
 
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Rude and unprofessional, hell yeah!!!! Worth 1 million? WTF is this? The LOTTO? Come on.
I concur. What happened is disgusting, but free speech should come before political correctness. The patient can advertise how he was treated by his doctors; that is his right. Anything beyond that is BS. The judge should throw out this case, and the ****ty lawyers that brought it up.

Emotional distress? Grow up, babyboy! Vietnam was emotional distress, Iraq was emotional distress! People making fun of you is just bad taste and poor judgment.

Next time they will sue for emotional distress if we tell them they are fat. "Why, doctor, my BMI is only 50!"
 
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"Never say something when a patient is sedated that you would not say to them fully awake.... You never know what they might remember."

-An attending anesthesiologist and mentor.
 
I concur. What happened is disgusting, but free speech should come before political correctness. The patient can advertise how he was treated by his doctors; that is his right. Anything beyond that is BS. The judge should throw out this case, and the ****** lawyers that brought it up.

Emotional distress? Grow up, babyboy! Vietnam was emotional distress, Iraq was emotional distress! People making fun of you is just bad taste and poor judgment.

Next time they will sue for emotional distress if we tell them they are fat. "Why, doctor, my BMI is only 50!"

I don't know that I can put a dollar denomination on it...but some of these patients are terrified by GA...and a lot of them only rest easy after they've established trust w/ their anesthesiologist...to hear the person you're literally trusting with your life take their job lightly and make these comments would be very upsetting to the lay person.

I even get aggravated when I bring the patient back and the surgeon already has his favorite Drake song on blast when we hit the OR.

I can understand them wanting more than to just write a bad yelp review.
 
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I have a better idea. We need to find the wireless company, perhaps it was Verizon or Sprint. Sue them for $83,947,689,347,693,468,745,986,745,987,457 for emotional distress. Just imagine what the settlement alone could be!
 
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I concur. What happened is disgusting, but free speech should come before political correctness. The patient can advertise how he was treated by his doctors; that is his right. Anything beyond that is BS. The judge should throw out this case, and the ****** lawyers that brought it up.

Emotional distress? Grow up, babyboy! Vietnam was emotional distress, Iraq was emotional distress! People making fun of you is just bad taste and poor judgment.

Next time they will sue for emotional distress if we tell them they are fat. "Why, doctor, my BMI is only 50!"

While I don't disagree with the sentiment, the actual first amendment reads:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech.

I.e., I don't believe this really falls under a freedom of speech umbrella. There's no federal law stating that doctors can be held criminally liable for making fun of their patients. This is more in the civil jurisdiction.

The Seventh Amendment reads
Amendment VII

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
, so I'm not sure it's applicable either. Though, the value in controversy did exceed $20.
 
Honestly I hope plaintiff prevails. Stupid evil f*** has no business practicing medicine. They sound like belligerent drunks.

Agree with Buzz.......NEVER
 
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Did he violate HIPAA or the hospitals procedures regarding recording in the hospital? Even if done unintentionally a judge might strike it. There are wiretapping laws (and the like) regarding recording people without their knowledge or consent. Would be curious to know if that falls under this or some other regulation.

I'll say it again, I think he did it on purpose. And who the hell lets a patient take their iPhone into a colonoscopy? We don't even let them take their glasses in.
 
Honestly I hope plaintiff prevails. Stupid evil f*** has no business practicing medicine.

Agree with Buzz.......NEVER

Well I don't think that the person should be banned from practicing medicine. I've been circumferentially involved in a situation where a surgeon blasted a patient calling her "fat" and whatnot when he didn't know she was a spinal/MAC. The patient heard and remembered the whole thing. An apology and some counseling fixed that one.
 
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Well I don't think that the person should be banned from practicing medicine. I've been circumferentially involved in a situation where a surgeon blasted a patient calling her "fat" and whatnot when he didn't know she was a spinal/MAC. The patient heard and remembered the whole thing. An apology and some counseling fixed that one.


Been in similar situations. That's when I ask loudly, "how are you feeling mr. Xxx? Are you comfortable?"
 
Been in similar situations. That's when I ask loudly, "how are you feeling mr. Xxx? Are you comfortable?"

Good tip. And smart to do any time the conversation starts to get too rowdy or off track, regardless as to whether not the patient is being discussed.

In this particular case the CRNA was in the room. Not me. And she didn't say anything (I don't think she liked this particular surgeon). A lot of apologies and mea culpas later it was smoothed over. Certainly didn't involve a $1M lawsuit.

Still wasn't right. Had I actualy been there this surgeon would've gotten the STFU treatment.
 
From the article:

"And really, after five minutes of talking to you in pre-op I wanted to punch you in the face and man you up a little bit."



I guess my question is: why are highschool jocks allowed to practice medicine?
 
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From the article:

"And really, after five minutes of talking to you in pre-op I wanted to punch you in the face and man you up a little bit."



I guess my question is: why are highschool jocks allowed to practice medicine?

Pretty sure Dr Tiffany Ingham mentioned in for article wasn't a high school "jock" ha ha

Shows women can have the same type of crude humor. Hey it's colonoscopy at stand a lone outpatient center.

And yes patients do have their cell phones on them at these centers. It's very lax at these places. Part of it to let patients past the time on their smartphones while waiting so they won't be nervous. They put their clothes and phones under the stretchers and have procedures done on the stretcher.

I am still very perplex why the anesthesia company is being sued. And not the individual doctors.

Something very fishy is going on. These "management companies". Safe sedation or http://www.aisthesispartners.com

As they are known know.

I met the original Anesthesia MD who started the company. Young guy back in mid 2000s. He sold it way too early back than. He was hustler getting a lot of contracts in the DC area.

Now it's just become another management company. But the difference is private equity investors brought over the company.

These companies have become ruthless. They gain "competitive" advantages over the little guys by offering what amounts to "kickbacks". Whether it's in violation of OIG opinion 12-06 "company model" which GI guys get a 40-49% "kickback" of anesthesia profits

Or another thing they will do is offer to pay GI docs nursing (particularly PACU salaries and their own anesthesia related medicine and equipment). Another form of kickback.

It's a nasty dirty business these days. And big money is involved.

That's why red flags pop up when I see the anesthesia company being sued and not the docs. The anesthesia docs get paid either a W2 or 1099 daily rate (amounts to around $300k-350k) which sounds good working 40 or so hours a week no calls no weekends. Except they are generating 500-600k of revenue depending on payer mix. So company is taking a 50% cut of what the MDs are generating.
 
Not trying to doxx her, but you can find out all about her with some google-fu. 920th airwing. Board-certified etc. And kind of a looker. She might have been a high school jock.
 
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While it sucks for this unfortunate lady would this "evidence" even be admissible in court? My understanding is that unless all parties consented to the recording i.e. being formally notified and consented to it, the evidence won't be admissable.
Am I wrong?
 
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While it sucks for this unfortunate lady would this "evidence" even be admissible in court? My understanding is that unless all parties consented to the recording i.e. being formally notified and consented to it, the evidence won't be admissable.
Am I wrong?
It depends. The staff knew he was recording the post op instructions. Could be considered "consent to record". Even though phone was accidentally left on.

I do find it suspicious for anyone leaving it on "accidentally". I usually turn off audio record to save battery.
 
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Did he violate HIPAA or the hospitals procedures regarding recording in the hospital? Even if done unintentionally a judge might strike it. There are wiretapping laws (and the like) regarding recording people without their knowledge or consent. Would be curious to know if that falls under this or some other regulation.

Virginia is a one-party consent state, so you can record anybody without their knowledge or consent, provided at least one party to the conversation (usually the recorder) is aware.

Virginia Code § 19.2-62
Virginia Code § 19.2-62 said:
2. It shall not be a criminal offense under this chapter for a person to intercept a wire, electronic or oral communication, where such person is a party to the communication or one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception.

Although the patient was in the room where the conversation took place, maybe this exception doesn't apply to this patient, since he wasn't actually part of the conversation.


I'll say it again, I think he did it on purpose. And who the hell lets a patient take their iPhone into a colonoscopy? We don't even let them take their glasses in.

Of course he did it on purpose. :)

One place I work, the patient's clothes and other belongings get put in a plastic bag that goes under the gurney so they accompany the patient everywhere. Endoscopy patients stay on the gurney for their procedures.


These people sound like dinguses. dinguses with poor judgment. They deserve to be ridiculed and ostracized, but monetary damages? Seems kind of ridiculous, that someone can sue for hurt feelings ...

But I think he's got a case. Malpractice requires
- a duty to the patient
- deviation from standard of care
- an actual injury
- proximate cause, ie the injury was a direct result of the non-standard care

If you grant that he's suffered an actual emotional injury, all 4 are present. I guess some might quibble that "not making fun of your patient" isn't a standard of care, but I think that'd be an easy thing to sell to any jury. I think they'll either settle or he'll win in court.




While it sucks for this unfortunate lady would this "evidence" even be admissible in court? My understanding is that unless all parties consented to the recording i.e. being formally notified and consented to it, the evidence won't be admissable.
Am I wrong?
Evidence rules aren't necessarily the same for criminal vs civil cases.
 
Virginia is a one-party consent state, so you can record anybody without their knowledge or consent, provided at least one party to the conversation (usually the recorder) is aware.

Virginia Code § 19.2-62


Although the patient was in the room where the conversation took place, maybe this exception doesn't apply to this patient, since he wasn't actually part of the conversation.




Of course he did it on purpose. :)

One place I work, the patient's clothes and other belongings get put in a plastic bag that goes under the gurney so they accompany the patient everywhere. Endoscopy patients stay on the gurney for their procedures.


These people sound like dinguses. dinguses with poor judgment. They deserve to be ridiculed and ostracized, but monetary damages? Seems kind of ridiculous, that someone can sue for hurt feelings ...

But I think he's got a case. Malpractice requires
- a duty to the patient
- deviation from standard of care
- an actual injury
- proximate cause, ie the injury was a direct result of the non-standard care

If you grant that he's suffered an actual emotional injury, all 4 are present. I guess some might quibble that "not making fun of your patient" isn't a standard of care, but I think that'd be an easy thing to sell to any jury. I think they'll either settle or he'll win in court.





Evidence rules aren't necessarily the same for criminal vs civil cases.

$100k will settle this case. $60k for patient. $40k for lawyer.

Depends how greedy the lawyer and patients get. Malpractice companies know it will cost $50-100k to try a case. It will cost the defense around $20k to try the case.
 
These people sound like dinguses. dinguses with poor judgment. They deserve to be ridiculed and ostracized, but monetary damages? Seems kind of ridiculous, that someone can sue for hurt feelings ...

I think this was a little banter that got out of control between Shah (the GI doc) and Ingham (the anesthesiologist). Doesn't excuse it. Still reprehensible. No defense of it. But I can see this scenario playing out (and have had one such case myself) and I think the precedent of successfully suing for this can be bad.

As far as Ingham goes people should Google her. That's all I'm going to say. A moment of poor judgment doesn't undo her other accomplishments. Who knows if this is a pattern. And who knows who started it. Maybe Shah goaded her. The point is don't get sucked in and keep your guard up at all times.

Of course I'm not sure why she's working for this outfit now. That's between her and her employers. But Shah is in this too. Patients sometimes have a good rapport with their GI doc and of course no rapport with the anesthesiologist until they meet them for the first time minutes before they go under. Who knows? Maybe Shah apologized and got out of it. And Ingham is going to bear the wrath of this pissed-off and hurt patient.

Also good work on finding the law in VA regarding recording. Meant to mention that too.
 
It's illegal to talk ****? That's ridiculous.
 
I guess my question is: why are highschool jocks allowed to practice medicine?

If they weren't allowed to practice medicine, who would do our orthopedic surgeries?

J/K:)
 
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VA must use the one party consent law for recordings. CA uses the two party consent law and it's illegal for patients to record phone conversations of physicians without written consent from both parties involved in the conversation. Our hospital risk management is all over this type of stuff. Pain patients and drug seekers are notorious for doing this. Anesthesiologist was definitely in the wrong but this patient was clearly just looking to make some money.
 
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Except this patient wasn't a party to the conversation. Even though he was in the room, he was unconscious. I also don't believe his story about he left it on so he could record his instructions.
 
Not trying to doxx her, but you can find out all about her with some google-fu. 920th airwing. Board-certified etc. And kind of a looker. She might have been a high school jock.
Yah, US AF. Been deployed to Afghanistan. Not that it excuses her, but she's likely more of a "bro" than the vast majority of male physicians.
 
There are many accomplished dinguses. They are still dinguses.
Being an dingus is one thing. Getting sued for being an dingus is another.
 
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(1) I think this will defame this anesthesiology group and anyone associated with the surgicenter.

(2) The statements by the anesthesiologist is not slander or defamation, it absolutely falls into freedom of speech.

(3) However common, "talking ****" is antithetical to how a doctor should treat a patient and may constitute an "emotional" injury.

(3) I think that the anesthesiologist was probably not establishing a good rapport prior to the case given her attitude intraop -- this a-hole probably took advantage of that fact to screw her to the wall.

(4) Despite #2 and #4, this will probably be settled out of court due to #1 and #3.

Sucks all around, this was definitely predatory but she prob shouldn't have been that offensive with her statements -- it's unprofessional to say the least.
 
(1) I think this will defame this anesthesiology group and anyone associated with the surgicenter.

I think in a month or two this will all be forgotten. People in this country have the attention span of a fruitfly on crystal meth.
 
I love when educated people think the 1st amendment is relevant in any way to situation like this.
 
I think the patient should sue himself for "forgetting" his phone open and, thus, inflicting "emotional damage". Had the phone not been left on, he would have never found out, hence it's not the doctors' fault. :)

Seriously, what's next? "Forgetting" their Google Glass on? I am fed up with this surveillance mentality. If I were a healthcare administrator, I would amend every single type of patient consent in the institution, with the interdiction of recording any encounter without permission. It will be the new "no smoking on hospital premises" rule.

This is not about the first amendment. This is about doctors not being told what to think/speak/do/wear/fart etc. by everybody in the country. Would he have sued if the same situation had happened at a hair salon or at a car mechanic, or even at a lawyer's office? What does this BS have to do with malpractice, as long as those people did their jobs well otherwise?
 
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They should file a counter-suit for illegal surveillance. This whole thing sounds pretty fishy. Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode when George "forgot" his briefcase that contained a tape recorder so that he could say what people were saying about him.
 
I think in a month or two this will all be forgotten. People in this country have the attention span of a fruitfly on crystal meth.

In other news, flight MH370 still hasn't been found and you wont believe what the Kardashians were doing today!
 
Looked up Virginia law and he could be on the hook for a felony without recording consent in a private location. It's a one-party consent state, but he was recording a conversation he was not part of without consent, which looks like a no-no. The surgeon was a jerk, but it looks like the pt was also a jerk, and likely incriminated himself. http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/virginia-recording-law
 
It's a one-party consent state, but he was recording a conversation he was not part of without consent, which looks like a no-no.

You might be right. That is an interesting twist on it because he was rendered unconscious and he was actually therefore not party to the conversation. Huh. Interesting angle.

Maybe Ingham and Shah's lawyers should move to have him charged with a felony in Virginia. You know what they say, the best defense is a strong offense. But don't know if that'd fly with the Fairfax prosecutor. Someone actually has to be willing to charge him. At least it could get some press. "You can't secretly record your doctors conversations without their permission." That's what I'd make this about. They need to hire a PR firm. Probably just want it to go away.

ADHD fruitflies on crack and whatnot (there I changed it).
 
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Looked up Virginia law and he could be on the hook for a felony without recording consent in a private location. It's a one-party consent state, but he was recording a conversation he was not part of without consent, which looks like a no-no. The surgeon was a jerk, but it looks like the pt was also a jerk, and likely incriminated himself. http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/virginia-recording-law

I'll go on record as saying there ain't no jury in the world that would convict him, even if he was charged, which he won't be.

The absolute last thing these doctors need or want is MORE publicity. Every person who hears the details of their assholishness is a person who will never, ever, ever agree to get scoped there. This isn't an infected mesh or 'oops I put a hole in the aorta' kind of suit that no one besides the patient cares about, this is scandalous water-cooler story that will get told and retold and retold, and those doctors need it to quietly go away ASAP, not create more publicity via an interesting connected wiretapping case.
 
I'll go on record as saying there ain't no jury in the world that would convict him, even if he was charged, which he won't be.

The absolute last thing these doctors need or want is MORE publicity. Every person who hears the details of their assholishness is a person who will never, ever, ever agree to get scoped there. This isn't an infected mesh or 'oops I put a hole in the aorta' kind of suit that no one besides the patient cares about, this is scandalous water-cooler story that will get told and retold and retold, and those doctors need it to quietly go away ASAP, not create more publicity via an interesting connected wiretapping case.
I definitely don't disagree. It would be up to the prosecutor, not the doc to charge him though. But yeah, it's not a good case to go after, just the out for the doc in a non-admissible evidence sort of way.
 
Lol. They took all that to a whole different level when it came to patient bashing under anesthesia. I hope all that was worth it when it's said and done.
 
Here's a lawyer's opinion about the situation:
A colonoscopy is unpleasant enough without having the doctors make fun of you during it. But this wasn't "defamation," as the plaintiff claims, because the statements weren't "published." Just because the plaintiff "inadvertently" recorded the insults on his phone while he was under anesthesia doesn't make that a "publication." (Example: "Really, after five minutes of talking to you in pre-op I wanted to punch you in the face.")
http://www.loweringthebar.net/2014/05/assorted-stupidity-61.html
 
It's going to settle out of court.

And it will soon be completely forgotten .

Except for on this forum.

Where it has been memorialized.

And where some yokel will resurrect it two or more years from now trying to make some point or other.

I almost guarantee that.
 
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It's going to settle out of court.

And it will soon be completely forgotten .

Except for on this forum.

Where it has been memorialized.

And where some yokel will resurrect it two or more years from now trying to make some point or other.

I almost guarantee that.
Soon be forgotten huh?
 
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