So called Lifestyle Specialities?

[vpv]

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Hello. Like countless pre-med wannabes, I too am roaming around hSDN. For my information, I wanted to know which specialties are known to be so-called "Lifestyle Specialties?" And also, approximately how many hours do they work? Are they on-call at all times, sometimes, or never?

Another question which I feel is relevent to this topic is why do people choose these lifestyle specialties even though some may provide little to no patient contact? I don't know much, but I assume that Pathology deals with autopsies and such. I have read in so many posts that "go into medicine if u want to save lives" and such statements yet, why choose a specialty where u don't really get to interact with patients?

If this is a troll topic, I apologize and ask the Moderators to delete this thread immediately.

For the information, Thank you.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I wanted to know which specialties are known to be so-called "Lifestyle Specialties?"

The ones most common cited as "lifestyle specialties" are the "ROAD" specialties - that is radiology, ophthamology, anesthesiology, and dermitology. They tend to work fewer hours than most doctors - probably in the 50-ish range per week - and be on call less. I imagine it would be possible to find some places where you'd never be on call.

why do people choose these lifestyle specialties even though some may provide little to no patient contact?

I guess they just enjoy that specialty. Patient contact doesn't make you a good doctor, and it's not a measure of how much you'll like your job. Those "save lives" posts you've read are most likely from pre-meds who haven't yet gotten the idealism crushed out of them yet. They'll figure out how things really work sooner or later.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Hey VPV,

There are varying degrees of "lifestyle" specialty. The key to these specialties is not that they don't work hard (many of them average ~60 hours a week), or that they don't take call, it's that their hours are controllable.

For example, if you're a anesthesia, you may work hard during the day, and you do take call, but you know your hours. You're not going to get called up in the middle of the night (like a family medicine doc might be) if a patient of his gets admitted to the hospital with an urgent problem. You're not going to be up for days like a trauma surgeon might be when cars crash and people get shot. Or called at 3:00 in the morning like an OB/GYN might be when his patient is now laboring.

The classic lifestyle fields are "ROAD" Radiology, Ophthalmology, Anestehsiology, and Dermatology. I've heard people try to add in Emergency Medidince, because it's shift work, but it can still be damn hard work and takes a special personality.

 

[vpv]

So which specialties actually provide a decent amount of patient contact while being not-so-cutthroat (in terms of working hours)? And I really don't understand what a Radiologist would be doing during his/her shift. Do they diagnose patients at all or what? Any patient contact?

Thanks.

 

[236116]

So which specialties actually provide a decent amount of patient contact while being not-so-cutthroat (in terms of working hours)? And I really don't understand what a Radiologist would be doing during his/her shift. Do they diagnose patients at all or what? Any patient contact?

Thanks.

Straight-up Rads reads films, "supervises" the techs doing the scans, etc.

Peds, general internal, internal specialties: once you're out of residency/fellowship, you'll have set clinical hours and call. Or you can go into private practice. Emergency, to a degree.

 

[strv04]

If you go into medicine for the patient contact you will be very disappointed.

 

[Crazyday]

I'm pretty sure dermatology has no call hours. (Doc we got a wart at 3:00 AM, need you to come check it out) Could be wrong but I think that's accurate.

Anesthesia works 50-70 hrs or so a week, although I've heard you can control your hours based on how much you want to make. Anesthesia does take call, but is also a whole hell of a lot less competitive than rads or derms.

Radiology has little-no patient contact, which is good for some people. Lifestyle, no idea. I do think they have to take call on occassion though.

No idea about opthamology either.

 

[vpv]

If you go into medicine for the patient contact you will be very disappointed.

I am not talking about patient contact in terms of the interaction between nurses and patients, etc. Rather, diagnostic medicine where one can at least observe a patient, once in a while talk to him/her, and diagnose him/her (very much like House & Co.). Would this be under internal medicine? If not, or if somewhere else, where?

 

[236116]

I am not talking about patient contact in terms of the interaction between nurses and patients, etc. Rather, diagnostic medicine where one can at least observe a patient, once in a while talk to him/her, and diagnose him/her (very much like House & Co.). Would this be under internal medicine? If not, or if somewhere else, where?

LOL, House isn't real and there's nothing like it.

Everyone diagnoses, everyone specializes, everyone calls consults.

 

[pressmom]

What about path? I noticed that was mentioned earlier here. In vet med it's as close to lifestyle specialty as you'll get, at least according to my professor. She always liked to say that there's no necropsies at 3 AM!

 

[Crazyday]

I don't know much about path, but I've heard that it can be sorta rough finding a job as one.

 

[vpv]

House isn't real.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *cry* *cry*

You serious? There aren't hospital docs who diagnose rare case illnesses?

 

[236116]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *cry* *cry*

You serious? There aren't hospital docs who diagnose rare case illnesses?

They're called specialists. Which kind of rare illness? Endocrine, heme, onc, neuro, paeds, ortho, gastro, etc? Each has their own specialist with their own fellowship.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO *cry* *cry*

You serious? There aren't hospital docs who diagnose rare case illnesses?

No, there is no "diagnosticians" like House and his ilk. Sometimes rare diagnoses are made by an internal medicine doctor, a pediatrician, a surgeon, a subspecialist like a cardiologist or nephrologist, or sometimes a radiologist or pathologist.

 

[strv04]

Even as a pathologist you will still have patient contact every time someone needs a biopsy, cancer diagnosis ect.

A lot of premeds confuse patient contact with "meaningful" patient contact. There are certain specialties where the majority of your contact with patients is meaningful and other specialties where there is lots of patient contact but its not always meaningful. When I say "meaningful contact" I am referring to what House does when he is with patients diagnose, interventions that sort of thing. You don't see House doing 3 month blood pressure checks, well child visits, DOT physicals (not that these things aren't important its just not what you picture when applying to med school).

So don't be afraid that you'll never see patients if you are thinking about a certain field or that you can only achieve satisfaction if you have your hands on a sick person.

 

[lhtran07]

Pathologists do more than just autopsies. Hell in our office, we do less than 5 autopsies throughout the whole year. With the advancements in radiology, autopsies aren't needed as much to find the cause of death.

Fine needle biopsies, bone marrow procedures, frozen sections, etc. I couldn't be a pathologist and have to sit and read slides all day...but for some people they enjoy it more than any other specialty and that's why they go into it. It's mostly diagnostic but there is patient contact.

 

[vpv]

No, there is no "diagnosticians" like House and his ilk. Sometimes rare diagnoses are made by an internal medicine doctor, a pediatrician, a surgeon, a subspecialist like a cardiologist or nephrologist, or sometimes a radiologist or pathologist.

So internal medicine is more so diagnostics than the other specialties of medicine? In terms of tense work load, job satisfaction and interests, how would surgery be compared to IM or all the other EROAD specialties?

 

[236116]

So internal medicine is more so diagnostics than the other specialties of medicine? In terms of tense work load, job satisfaction and interests, how would surgery be compared to IM or all the other EROAD specialties?

No, they all do it. GIM is a lot of maintenance, IM specialties maintain weird crap like HOCM or Alz or MS or AML.

Surgery... Well, surgery sucks and that's why some of us love it. Crappy patients, hours of OR and clinic and paperwork and someone else's research. 😍

 

[vpv]

No, they all do it. GIM is a lot of maintenance, IM specialties maintain weird crap like HOCM or Alz or MS or AML.

Surgery... Well, surgery sucks and that's why some of us love it. Crappy patients, hours of OR and clinic and paperwork and someone else's research. 😍

How much would a surgical resident expect to work? 80 hours or so? And once out of residency how much would they end up working?

 

[MilkmanAl]

Yeah, you can count on 80 hour weeks as a surgical resident. Your hours probably won't decrease too much afterward. 70 hours would probably be a reasonable expectation.

 

[smq123]

So which specialties actually provide a decent amount of patient contact while being not-so-cutthroat (in terms of working hours)?

Psych, probably. Dermatology, definitely. Ophthalmology also has decent amounts of patient contact, but generally has good hours.

And I really don't understand what a Radiologist would be doing during his/her shift. Do they diagnose patients at all or what? Any patient contact?

Radiologists read films. Sometimes there is something going on INSIDE the patient's body that can only be diagnosed after getting an MRI or a CT...so yes, radiologists DO diagnose patients, although not in the traditional manner.

How much would a surgical resident expect to work? 80 hours or so? And once out of residency how much would they end up working?

Surgery residents work an average of 80 hours per week...theoretically.

Some programs encourage their residents to lie about how many hours they are actually working. This is because it is a law that residents can only work 80 hours per week....and if a program violates the law, that residency progran can be shut down.

It's also an average of how many hours you work over the course of 4 weeks. So one week, you may work 90 hours, but the next week only work 70. So it averages out to 80.

 

[236116]

How much would a surgical resident expect to work? 80 hours or so? And once out of residency how much would they end up working?

About 2 million.

Seriously, though... surgery stays until the job's done and the hell with hours rules. Fellowship's pretty much the same. Attendings in private practice have a little bit of flex, but it depends on their practice. Attendings in academic medicine are either lab rats or never leave. Or both.

 

[smq123]

Seriously, though... surgery stays until the job's done and the hell with hours rules. Fellowship's pretty much the same.

I wouldn't exactly say "hell with hours rules."

All it takes is someone to notice that the residents are staying too long and telling the ACGME. Or a tired intern making a quiet complaint. And then the program will be put on probation or shut down entirely.

It IS a serious issue, and the good programs will often be within hour regulations. The bad ones, though....no guarantees.

 

[NotAndrew]

Rather, diagnostic medicine where one can at least observe a patient, once in a while talk to him/her, and diagnose him/her (very much like House & Co.). Would this be under internal medicine? If not, or if somewhere else, where?

Do you also walk around with a cane, scream its not lupus, and generally insult everyone you come in contact with?

 

[vpv]

Do you also walk around with a cane, scream its not lupus, and generally insult everyone you come in contact with?

I wish...


One more question, why do people call emergency medicine residents crazy? I've heard it at countless occasions.

 

[236116]

One more question, why do people call emergency medicine residents crazy? I've heard it at countless occasions.

*shrugs* They're adrenaline junkies who spend most of their time acting as PCPs for people who haven't got them.

 

[vpv]

*shrugs* They're adrenaline junkies who spend most of their time acting as PCPs for people who haven't got them.

But I've heard that during residency, they are exposed to all sorts of specialties such as, anesthesia, surgery, internal medicine, psychiatry etc. If this is true, does it mean that they hardly use what they have learned? Do they come across any special cases where they might have to think on there feet? And how are they adrenaline junkies?

 

[236116]

But I've heard that during residency, they are exposed to all sorts of specialties such as, anesthesia, surgery, internal medicine, psychiatry etc. If this is true, does it mean that they hardly use what they have learned? Do they come across any special cases where they might have to think on there feet? And how are they adrenaline junkies?

You need all of that for EM. A lot of time they think on their feet. There's a rush when you get a trauma in.

 

[RySerr21]

But I've heard that during residency, they are exposed to all sorts of specialties such as, anesthesia, surgery, internal medicine, psychiatry etc. If this is true, does it mean that they hardly use what they have learned? Do they come across any special cases where they might have to think on there feet? And how are they adrenaline junkies?

They have a job that often times requires them to make split second LIFE OR DEATH decisions for another human being. If that doesnt get your heart pumpin and your adrenaline flowin, i dont know what will.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

1) Lifestyle specialties in general have a high compensation to hours worked ratio. Many other specialties have few hours worked (such as genetics or physical medicine & rehab) but don't have the cache of a "lifestyle" specialty. In general they're highly specialized niches of medicine who are not the primary doctors taking care of any given patient. Therefore even in residency all of the "work" that makes the hours so long is done by someone else. In general, radiology, dermatology, radiation oncology, ophthalmology, anesthesia, emergency medicine and pathology would all qualify. Specialties where you do all the work would be anything surgical, internal medicine, peds and neurology.

2) Just like any junkies, EM people find themselves needing bigger and bigger doses to get high. While trauma sounds unbelievably cool to anyone who's never been involved with one, they are in general quite algorithmic and rarely provide the rush people are seeking. In general the cool interventions are done by surgeons-- EM docs are resuscitation specialists but often ship patients off to other services immediately for definitive care. And they are exposed to all of the specialties you mentioned in residency in order to accurately assess and manage patients when they come into the ER, no matter what they have. They have a lot more variety in what they're expected to know and do than most doctors.

 

[vpv]

I want some information on surgical residencies. Once you become more specialized through a fellowship, do you end up working even more than usual? For example, a surgeon who subspecialized in Vascular surgery. Would he work more or less than when he was a surgeon? How about for neurosurgery, orthopedic surgery, plastic surgery, etc?

I just want information about the specialty not asking about money.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I'm not particularly well versed on the finer details of various surgical specialties, but I'm under the impression that every one of them requires a gigantic time commitment. The possible exception is plastics guys who solely do elective cosmetic procedures. Ortho might be slightly less demanding than the rest in terms of hours but not much. Other than that, you can expect 70 hours work weeks most of the time.

 

[smq123]

I want some information on surgical residencies. Once you become more specialized through a fellowship, do you end up working even more than usual? For example, a surgeon who subspecialized in Vascular surgery. Would he work more or less than when he was a surgeon? How about for neurosurgery, orthopedic surgery, plastic surgery, etc?

Your question is a little confusing. Are you asking if a specialist surgeon would work more than a general surgeon?

As with most things, the answer depends. Some of the plastic surgeons work absolutely awful hours, because they may need to cover several hospitals. (At many hospitals, wound debridements/infected wounds, hematomas, etc. are addressed by plastic surgeons, not general or trauma surgeons.) Vascular surgeons also have a lot of emergencies that may need to be addressed at 2 AM. So, it is quite possible that as a specialty surgeon, you will work longer and harder than you would as a general surgeon who only did non-emergent hernia repairs, appendectomies, cholecystectomies, and superficial tumor biopsies/excisions.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

I want some information on surgical residencies. Once you become more specialized through a fellowship, do you end up working even more than usual? For example, a surgeon who subspecialized in Vascular surgery. Would he work more or less than when he was a surgeon? How about for neurosurgery, orthopedic surgery, plastic surgery, etc?

I just want information about the specialty not asking about money.

During your residency/fellowship you will work like a dog regardless of what surgical residency you do.

After completing your residency, however, and you're an attending, the amount of work you do is largely up to you and the practice environment you want to function in. Take a neurosurgeon who has just completed their incredibly grueling residency. He might choose an academic career where he keeps up incredible hours, or one where he lets residents make his life much more manageable. He may enter an incredibly busy private practice group where he does many nights of call. Or he may do private practice where he only does outpatient spine and have a great lifestyle.

There's a lot of variety in what jobs are out there and what they demand. These considerations overshadow if an Ortho or Vascular surgeon or general surgeon work more or less than eachother. Now, it is true that some fields may have more manageable lifestyles. A lot of ENTs and Uros have busy clinical practices with their operative days that make their lives easier. Orthos (although they have considerable trauma responsibilities) tend to be able to swing a semi controllable lifestyle in private practice from what I've seen. However, I can guarantee there are ENTs out there working more hours than general surgeons because that's the career they've built for themselves.

 

[WatchMeRise]

If this is true, how is it possible to live a normal life? Surgeons seem to have the most demanding job... how can they even find enough time to spend with their family?

70+ hours a week is... wow.

 

[Crazyday]

If this is true, how is it possible to live a normal life? Surgeons seem to have the most demanding job... how can they even find enough time to spend with their family?

70+ hours a week is... wow.

You find a new appreciation for time, that is certain.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Well, my friend said he saw his dad, a CT surgeon, in the morning before school and not again until late at night. In other words, you might not see your family.

 

[smq123]

If this is true, how is it possible to live a normal life? Surgeons seem to have the most demanding job... how can they even find enough time to spend with their family?

70+ hours a week is... wow.

Your definition of a "normal life" changes.

Suddenly, it becomes "normal" to wake up at 5 AM, and not get home again until 6 PM. It also becomes "normal" to not see that much of your family, even on the weekends.

That's one of the reasons why surgery has such a high drop-out rate.

 

[tennisball80]

Your definition of a "normal life" changes.

Suddenly, it becomes "normal" to wake up at 5 AM, and not get home again until 6 PM. It also becomes "normal" to not see that much of your family, even on the weekends.

That's one of the reasons why surgery has such a high drop-out rate.

Wow how many surgeries a general surgeon perform every day ? 😕

 

[smq123]

Wow how many surgeries a general surgeon perform every day ? 😕

Depends on what kind of surgeon you are, and it depends from week to week.

General surgeons do a LOT more besides just operate, though. That is partly what takes so long.

 

[deleted239798]

No, they all do it. GIM is a lot of maintenance, IM specialties maintain weird crap like HOCM or Alz or MS or AML.

Surgery... Well, surgery sucks and that's why some of us love it. Crappy patients, hours of OR and clinic and paperwork and someone else's research. 😍

No offense, but how would you know, other than from hearing anecdotal evidence on these forums? Have you seriously shadowed all of the specialties you've listed on this thread?

 

[Terpskins99]

Wow how many surgeries a general surgeon perform every day ? 😕

Basically, it depends on the type of procedures and how many of them are scheduled for that day.

General surgery procedures can be as short as 15 minutes (e.g. open appendectomy) or as long as 10+ hours (e.g. Whipple procedure).

 

[jennearomo]

Basically, it depends on the type of procedures and how many of them are scheduled for that day.

General surgery procedures can be as short as 15 minutes (e.g. open appendectomy) or as long as 10+ hours (e.g. Whipple procedure).

Yea, usually when I go into shadow some surgeon, he has like a few surgeries scheduled, and they can be from like 10 minutes-to 10+hours just like he said.
I had a surgery once that was actually like 8-9 hours long. Getting a colostomy reversal. And that was his only surgery for the day.
Then the heckave short surgeries could be like just a circumcision or something. There's always a lot of hernias too, and those take like 30 minutes to an hour or something.
He usually finishes everything around 5pm or less. And they start the operations at like 8am.
One time he even had to put me to sleep to just pull a catheter out because it would not get out by itself, and that probably took like 1 second. lol

 

[Dral]

If you go into medicine for the patient contact you will be very disappointed.

Haha, wise words indeed. I like having patient contact, but it's not why I went into medicine.

 

[cajunchrisbu]

I am not talking about patient contact in terms of the interaction between nurses and patients, etc. Rather, diagnostic medicine where one can at least observe a patient, once in a while talk to him/her, and diagnose him/her (very much like House & Co.). Would this be under internal medicine? If not, or if somewhere else, where?

haha omg...

perhaps you should study acting or better yet drop out of school, go to Hollywood and get "discovered"

I also like the post earlier about getting the idealism crushed out of you. It happens for most in the first large grinder courses where they are trying to weed out the crowd. Take my class here in college for example, 750 pre-meds freshman fall...now we have 90.

I know a lot of people that started in forensic science (my major) because of CSI and were greatly disappointed!!! They are in the business school now.

 

[mededu]

If you go into medicine for the patient contact you will be very disappointed.

An advise by strv04....

Better choose your options very carefully.