So I got a letter from the Army...

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interstellar

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the other day... and I actually didn't throw it out right away. They make it sound so good though, paying for all your med school tuition...
 
If you feel it's worth it, go for it. I wouldn't, but it's not my soul you'd sell.
 
Throw it out. I've researched it plenty. I guess it is good for some people, but army doc just isn't my thing. I wanted to do air force for a while but not as a physician. Not a single military physician I have ever talked to has been even remotely happy about it, and most are very relieved upon leaving and regret the decision fully. Plus the damn army recruiters tell you bold faced lies, I dislike that.
 
Im only an Undergrad. Premed, but from what I read on the forums it's not really great. I heard the working conditions were horrid and getting a loan to pay for med school was better by far. Just giving you a heads up and summary of what I've read.
 
I considered it when I thought I could overlap my residency with paying my time back to the military. But you can't. And 7 years sounds like enough - I don't need to make it 11.
 
interstellar said:
the other day... and I actually didn't throw it out right away. They make it sound so good though, paying for all your med school tuition...
Click to expand...

If you are seriously considering this option, you should go over to the military medicine forums and read the past scholarship recipients' posts. There are alot of great posts on the pros and cons of military medicine. In the end, you have to decide whether the whole deal is right for you.
 
TPROrgoTutor said:
Throw it out. I've researched it plenty. I guess it is good for some people, but army doc just isn't my thing. I wanted to do air force for a while but not as a physician. Not a single military physician I have ever talked to has been even remotely happy about it, and most are very relieved upon leaving and regret the decision fully. Plus the damn army recruiters tell you bold faced lies, I dislike that.
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I dunno - a doctor I worked with loved it. You live way better than your student counterparts while a student. But slightly worse for the first years of your career because you work for the military.

But you don't have to deal with malpractice insurance. And he said it was an awesome deal for a young single doctor.
 
If you value yourself in any capacity, run, run away and never look back.
 
Just my three cents... I was awarded the Navy HPSP after a thorough application process, background checks, and "the" military physical, and I called it off right before I had to sign on the dotted line and commit. I found that "free" medical school wasn't as free as I thought it would be. After talking to some physicians who had actually gone through the program (and were currently practicing as Army and Navy military docs), most of them regretted their decision, as it was usually made for financial reasons, and it turns out that you wind up losing more money relative to your friends who graduate medical school, complete their residency, and begin making tons more money as a civilian doctor, which enables them to begin paying off their loans quite comfortably. The catch for me was a lack of independence - I was utterly uncomfortable having the Navy tell me what kind of doctor I had to be. If I wanted to go into neurology, and the Navy just didn't have a need for neurologists when I graduated med school, tough luck. Also, you have to be ready to serve in what is evolving into a never-ending combat zone, especially in the Army. Bottom line is, do HPSP if you truly have a desire to serve your country as a physician, not as a financial shortcut. Because, surprisingly, it's really not one.
 
my roommate's brother went to Pitt Med on military scholarship. he technically should be finished with them owning his soul in may, but until his last day they can (and will) call him back to iraq (yes back, he's been twice already) for another year, even though his discharge papers will be all set to go. his advice: never, never do what he's done. he now has two babies, one who was born while he was in iraq, and he might die serving in a war that he doesn't believe in.
i wouldn't do it. take out loans, at least you get to live your life.
 
MirrorTodd said:
Agreed a thousand times over. Being an officer in the military might be a lot better than being an NCO, but it still sucks. Money alone is not a good enough reason to join as a doctor.
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Second that. I'd rather be 150,000 in debt but happy with my life, than debt free but tied to the military system and having to be told what to do and when to do it, or being sent to a war that I don't believe in, at the risk of being killed over there (hey, it's not such a far-fetched thought 🙁 ).

Only do it if you intended to go into the military since the beginning, if you like the lifestyle and wouldn't mind the little (or big) perks. But money is NOT a good enough reason.
 
http://lukeballard.tripod.com/HPSP.html

This guy has some decent information.

I am interested in serving my country but my wife wants more investigation ala What are the chances of me driving a humvee in Fallujah, etc. If I were single it would be an easy choice, I would do it. I would be the first generation in my family to miss out on a war/military duty😳 .

good luck.

'Rambler
 
interstellar said:
the other day... and I actually didn't throw it out right away. They make it sound so good though, paying for all your med school tuition...
Click to expand...

If the only thing that sounds good about it is the money, throw it out and never look back. You will be miserable. Many Clinton-era types who joined for the money have been truly unhappy having to fight against a real enemy, who really no-kidding might kill them. On the day a mortar shell explodes 150m from your tent (or, God forbid, closer) the money you signed for is going to look like ****. Other people end up being driven to drink by the bureaucracy.

If there's something else appealing, and you could see yourself being in the military for a few years, then try to find and talk to some active duty doctors in the service and specialty that you would consider trying for. Try to set up some shadowing. Meet as many people as possible, and try to talk to them in a one-on-one setting where they can tell you what they're really thinking.

Many people on this website will tell you that there is nothing good or nothing bad about being in the military. Don't believe either party. Do your own research. Make yourself very, very well informed before you sign anything.
 
ordeliacay said:
my roommate's brother went to Pitt Med on military scholarship. he technically should be finished with them owning his soul in may, but until his last day they can (and will) call him back to iraq (yes back, he's been twice already) for another year, even though his discharge papers will be all set to go. his advice: never, never do what he's done. he now has two babies, one who was born while he was in iraq, and he might die serving in a war that he doesn't believe in.
i wouldn't do it. take out loans, at least you get to live your life.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. If you don't believe in war in general then don't enlist or ask for a commission because you can't pick and choose your wars.

Personally, I believe in war but I decided agianst the HPSP or the FAP because I don't want to deploy. Not to mention that my wife owns my medical degree and after five years of poverty (with two more to go) she wants a payback, not a crappy military salary.

Hey, if you want to serve, enlist or seek a commision in the regular military. A tour in the Marines is only four years and other than an IRR requirement which is rarely enforced, once out you are free and clear. (Although I was stop-lossed back in 1991 for the Gulf War but only for a few months.) Why live on tenterhooks?
 
I've done discounted cash flow and breakeven analyses on receiving one of the army scholarships for medicine. Believe me, the government ends up winning if you look at a money and quality of life standpoint. HOWEVER, if you want to be an officer in the armed forces, then I guess it's okay...
 
A friend of mine considered it, and then she talked to an army doc who warned her to run far far away. They are apparently pro-army (anti-civilian) to the point of it harming the patient. Like once, he transferred his patient to a non-army hospital which was a leader in the field for what procedure, and the army actually chewed him out (possibly docked his pay as well, I don't remember the details) for not keeping it internal.

Moreover, they say you only owe them 4 years, but they make it almost impossible to get out afterwards. The only good thing they seem to have going for them is the enormous monthly stipend.
 
Writer1985 said:
A friend of mine considered it, and then she talked to an army doc who warned her to run far far away. They are apparently pro-army (anti-civilian) to the point of it harming the patient. Like once, he transferred his patient to a non-army hospital which was a leader in the field for what procedure, and the army actually chewed him out (possibly docked his pay as well, I don't remember the details) for not keeping it internal.

Moreover, they say you only owe them 4 years, but they make it almost impossible to get out afterwards. The only good thing they seem to have going for them is the enormous monthly stipend.
Click to expand...

Which accounts for nothing when you could be an attending after residency, but you're still stuck in the military.
 
interstellar said:
the other day... and I actually didn't throw it out right away. They make it sound so good though, paying for all your med school tuition...
Click to expand...

Guess even the Army doesn't want me? Man, not even getting some fliers from the Carribeans! 😎
 
BTW It isn't an "enormous" stipend. It's basically 1/2 per month of what my girlfriend was offered as a teacher at a private school, or 1/4 of what I make in a month as an RT.
 
DropkickMurphy said:
BTW It isn't an "enormous" stipend. It's basically 1/2 per month of what my girlfriend was offered as a teacher at a private school, or 1/4 of what I make in a month as an RT.
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Well its enormous compared to what a normal med student is going to have to live off of.
 
Uh, well if you're married or living with someone else who can work (my girlfriend) it's still less than what they would bring home and even still, a couple of thousand a month isn't worth selling your soul.
 
DropkickMurphy said:
Uh, well if you're married or living with someone else who can work (my girlfriend) it's still less than what they would bring home and even still, a couple of thousand a month isn't worth selling your soul.
Click to expand...

Well I agree thats why I'm not doing it. But for a single student with no shared income its quite a bit. And worth it if you want to go into armed forced - but realistically how many people want to do that?
 
I'm doing the Air Force HPSP. I grew up in a military family, and one of my parent's is still in 20+ yrs later. I'm not doing the medicine thing for the money, therefore I don't really care. However, I don't want to be in six figure debt, either, when I get out. I want to practice international medicine, therefore, 4 yrs post-residency (for me, anyways) is a good deal.
 
The only reason to join one of these scholarship programs is if you want to "serve your country".

BTW, in times of war, the government can double your required service time if it so chooses... just another thing to think about.
 
OP, everyone got that letter from the Army. Okay? When I saw this thread title I was laughing my little arse off.

Everyone else, I'm not any kind of military expert or anything, but I'm pretty sure you shouldn't do it for the $$$.

If you're a cute, civilian college girl you can be patriotic by sleeping with some hot military guy. I did it in college. So can you. America, Fu#k yeah!
 
If you're a cute, civilian college girl you can be patriotic by sleeping with some hot military guy. I did it in college. So can you. America, Fu#k yeah!
Click to expand...

👍 I know more than a couple of girls showed their patriotism this way when I was in the service. :meanie:
 
yeah i know everyone and their mom gets that letter. 🙄

i was just curious if anyone really actually looked at it and considered it. normally i dump recruitment stuff ASAP, but probably the desperation of waiting for interviews somehow pushed me to actually open it and read something.

and honestly it sounded great to someone naive about all things military like myself. but yeah that doesn't mean i'm signing up anytime soon...

and lol yeah there are others way to <ahem> serve your country :laugh:
 
if you wouldn't consider the military as a non-physician, then you shouldn't consider the military as a physician.


if you would consider the military as a non-physician, then you should do a whole bunch of research before considering the military as a physician.
 
I am a former Marine and my Father is a former Army physician. As a physician he served for over 20 years and retired as an O-6 which is one grade down from a General. Hes getting a GREAT pension from the military as well as great health benefits. Ive asked him about being an Army doc, hes says go for it... Because I was a Marine, I wouldve loved to be an 0-3 (Captain) as soon as I get in. Whether you realize it or not "authority" feels really good. You dont have to serve your whole life, I believe the contract now is 5 years. You DONT have to worry about being in combat. Thats for the Combat-Arms Marines and Soldiers, not the damn Doctors (from experience, I can tell you they are NO WHERE NEAR any kind of combat). Your protected greatly against lawsuits as a physician giving you that freedom to learn without bounds making you a better physician.
--With all of this.. My father has CRAZY credentials. A physician with a background in the military is of the noblest of characters. Hes been nominated for Florida's Surgeon General, he was the Medical Director of a few hospitals(not sure which). --All this said.. I dont think its a necessarily a bad idea.
 
which is one grade down from a General.
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Yes, a colonel is one rank below the lowest ranking general officer:
O-7: Brigadier General
O-8: Major General (cue Pirates of Penzance song)
O-9: Lieutenant General
O-10: General

So technically it's 4 grades below General. 😉
 
physician with a background in the military is of the noblest of characters. Hes been nominated for Florida's Surgeon General, he was the Medical Director of a few hospitals(not sure which). --All this said.. I dont think its a necessarily a bad idea.
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Yes, but you make it sound like the military is the reason he got these things. I don't think most people who assume these positions have military experience and if one wanted to achieve such a position, they should not be led to believe that there is any mandatory about service. I also question the nobility of the average military physician seeing as most are there for entirely self-serving reasons (paying for school).
 
(from experience, I can tell you they are NO WHERE NEAR any kind of combat)
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Tell that to any of the docs, nurses and techs who have survived a mortar attack in Iraq. Yes, in "on the front" combat, yes, you wouldn't be up at the front. However we are not fighting that kind of war anymore.
 
HPSP has some major pros and cons. As an M2, it's great to not have to worry about the dough. They pay for tuition, books, board fees, plus the stipend (about $1300/mo but there's a bill in Congress to double it). I'll graduate and not have to worry about malpractice insurance, and if I get picked up to do a military residency will make significantly more than a civilian resident. You couldn't ask for a better patient population, either. I've always found the idea of the military intriguing, and even thought about enlisting after high school.

Unfortunately, from everything I hear the military is an administrative quagmire for physicians. Certain specialties (like EM, gen surg, ortho) find themselves deployed a lot. Many specialties pay less than half what a civilian private practice attending would make. Some of the reasons people choose medicine, like being one's own boss and having a high degree of professional freedom, are directly contrary to life in the operational military. If I end up matching at Johns Hopkins but some second-rate military program needs me more, I don't have any choice but to do the mil res. Do your homework and think long and hard about blocking off 8 years of your life and giving it over, whatever your reasons are. There's always the option of joining after residency (FEP loan repayment I think it's called).
 
TPROrgoTutor said:
Throw it out. I've researched it plenty. I guess it is good for some people, but army doc just isn't my thing. I wanted to do air force for a while but not as a physician. Not a single military physician I have ever talked to has been even remotely happy about it, and most are very relieved upon leaving and regret the decision fully. Plus the damn army recruiters tell you bold faced lies, I dislike that.
Click to expand...

I worked with an anesthesiologist (sp?) this summer that served in the air force. He loved it!!! If I was going to go into anything, it'd be the air force. He spent time with his family throughout the whole thing. He was kind of a family doctor for the families of 5 fighter pilots. He said that he rode in F-16's at least twice a week. That'd be awesome!!!
 
DropkickMurphy said:
Yes, a colonel is one rank below the lowest ranking general officer:
O-7: Brigadier General
O-8: Major General (cue Pirates of Penzance song)
O-9: Lieutenant General
O-10: General

So technically it's 4 grades below General. 😉
Click to expand...

Im assuming that the average citizen isnt sure of the exact rank structure.. If this was a Military forum, it wouldve been different..
 
DropkickMurphy said:
Yes, but you make it sound like the military is the reason he got these things. I don't think most people who assume these positions have military experience and if one wanted to achieve such a position, they should not be led to believe that there is any mandatory about service. I also question the nobility of the average military physician seeing as most are there for entirely self-serving reasons (paying for school).
Click to expand...
1) Judgement, Justice, Dedication, Integrity, Dependability, Tact, Initiative, Enthusiasm, Bearing, Unselfishness, Courage, Knowledge... These are expected from the Military.. I would say that if I had to choose between to Doctors of EQUAL credentials.. EXCEPT one who was military.. Id hire the Doctor with Military experience for the job..Or maybe Im a fool.

2) OXYMORON-- military service is never mandatory..

3) I hope that youve had some military experience... When a person joins, they do so for many reasons. To cut throat the Doctors in the military by stating that they are serving in the military to service themselves is blunt. Nevertheless, the reasons for which someone would join the Military to serve their country is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that they joined and served while you watched. <--which isnt a bad thing, its par.
 
The Marine Corps made me the man I am today.

The only other larger positive influences have been my parents.

If you go into the military for the "right" reasons and neither expect nor complain when it turns out not to be a rose garden then it will be a positive experience. You should also not expect to get a free ride later in life because you once did a little military service.

When I enlisted I made the rounds of the Army, Navy, and Air Force. All of them promised me college money, liberal vacation, travel, and job training. The Marine recruiter looked me up and down contemptuously and said, "Son, I don't think you have what it takes to be a Marine."

The Marines don't have a monopoly on toughness. But they do have the right idea about recruiting which is to not sugarcoat military service.
 
DropkickMurphy said:
Tell that to any of the docs, nurses and techs who have survived a mortar attack in Iraq. Yes, in "on the front" combat, yes, you wouldn't be up at the front. However we are not fighting that kind of war anymore.
Click to expand...

Again, Military Doctors are NO WHERE NEAR COMBAT. Assuming that combat is when BOB points his weapon at FRED and pulls the trigger while FRED does the same. Ive served three combat tours in Iraq. You would be more likely to die of a car accident on the interstate then to die from a mortar landing within 30 meters of you. The point is that: its not as risky as it may seem to non-military citizen.
 
But if you're worried about money, just take out the loans. Fear of debt is irrational in this case and you're going to feel pretty stupid, nine years from now looking back at all of the income you could have made except that you were stuck in the military, if you're only doing it for the money.

Aren't they teaching microeconomics these days? In other words, how hard would it be to do a cost-benefit analysis using some round numbers to see if there is a financial advantage to being debt-free for medical school. Just "not wanting to be in debt" is an irrational response. I'd go into debt cheerfully and willingly if there was a likely payoff at the end.
 
Panda Bear said:
The Marine Corps made me the man I am today.

The only other larger positive influences have been my parents.

If you go into the military for the "right" reasons and neither expect nor complain when it turns out not to be a rose garden then it will be a positive experience. You should also not expect to get a free ride later in life because you once did a little military service.

When I enlisted I made the rounds of the Army, Navy, and Air Force. All of them promised me college money, liberal vacation, travel, and job training. The Marine recruiter looked me up and down contemptuously and said, "Son, I don't think you have what it takes to be a Marine."

The Marines don't have a monopoly on toughness. But they do have the right idea about recruiting which is to not sugarcoat military service.
Click to expand...

That sounds like reverse psychology to me.
 
ONYX4000GT said:
Again, Military Doctors are NO WHERE NEAR COMBAT. Assuming that combat is when BOB points his weapon at FRED and pulls the trigger while FRED does the same. Ive served three combat tours in Iraq. You would be more likely to die of a car accident on the interstate then to die from a mortar landing within 30 meters of you. The point is that: its not as risky as it may seem to non-military citizen.
Click to expand...

I was a mortarman, myself. I was an 0331 (machingunner) but I was cross-trained for mortars and was the Mortar Section Leader for Kilo 3/8 a long, long time ago.

Who were you with?
 
CTSballer11 said:
That sounds like reverse psychology to me.
Click to expand...


Of course it was. But he wasn't lying, either. It is hard being a Marine Infantryman and not everyone can (or would want to) do it.

This goes double for Army Rangers, SEALS, and other outfits.
 
I just got a letter from the Army saying congratualtion for your acceptance to medical school...I am hoping that bodes well for Oct. 15 😱
 
ONYX4000GT said:
Again, Military Doctors are NO WHERE NEAR COMBAT. Assuming that combat is when BOB points his weapon at FRED and pulls the trigger while FRED does the same. Ive served three combat tours in Iraq. You would be more likely to die of a car accident on the interstate then to die from a mortar landing within 30 meters of you. The point is that: its not as risky as it may seem to non-military citizen.
Click to expand...

It's not like a mortar is nuclear weapon incinerating all in it's path. In fact, the explosion of a typical 60mm mortar round is pretty unimpressive. It also throws out a lot of fragments but your chance of being hit decreases exponentially depending on your distance from the blast.

I also understand that the bulk of American casualties are from IEDs, not mortars, other indirect fire, or small arms.
 
Panda Bear said:
It is hard being a Marine Infantryman
Click to expand...

"What's so hard about being the government's only authorized bullet catchers?" says the army medic as he ducks behind his infantry buddies.😀
 
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