So is there a silver lining?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Members do not see this ad.
evilbooyaa said:
I AM NOT IN IT FOR DA MONEYS.

Tell me - if Medicine (regardless of specialty) paid a 70k/year salary, would you still do it? My primary focus isn't money, but to say that it has had no factor on my choice is something I would never say, and something I would strongly re-think.

It's all well and good that you went in this for knowledge (and oddly and unsaintly enough, not about "helping others"), but please consider my proposition above and see if your answer is the same. If it is, then THAT is some mother teresa level stuff.
Click to expand...

1. 70k a year would be fine, esp given that I'm not going to be in any serious debt other than paying my parents back. So...no biggie. I can't even THINK about another job that would make me want to wake up and go to work that pays 50K, let alone 70K. I know this sounds weird to people who really were swayed to med school for money...but...I'm not making this up. I'm even thinking about immunology...and that's a lot of extra studying with pretty little return financially, I believe?
2. If I was saying "it's not for the money, it's for helping people" then I can see how that would be saintly. If I was using my real name right here I wouldn't say this...but I couldn't give two flying chickens about "helping people"...I mean...helping people is fine and all...but that's definitely NOT my motivation for this career path. Some people go into tech because they just know that's going to be satisfying. So...if that's mother teresa...then, um...okay.
3. And I like how I look in a white coat.
 
Anastomoses said:
1. 70k a year would be fine, esp given that I'm not going to be in any serious debt other than paying my parents back. So...no biggie. I can't even THINK about another job that would make me want to wake up and go to work that pays 50K, let alone 70K. I know this sounds weird to people who really were swayed to med school for money...but...I'm not making this up. I'm even thinking about immunology...and that's a lot of extra studying with pretty little return financially, I believe?
2. If I was saying "it's not for the money, it's for helping people" then I can see how that would be saintly. If I was using my real name right here I wouldn't say this...but I couldn't give two flying chickens about "helping people"...I mean...helping people is fine and all...but that's definitely NOT my motivation for this career path. Some people go into tech because they just know that's going to be satisfying. So...if that's mother teresa...then, um...okay.
3. And I like how I look in a white coat.
Click to expand...

1. So if medicine didn't exist, you would stay in bed all day? You need to think a little harder. There's a myriad of jobs I'd rather do for 50K if that's what medicine paid. Plus, "I'm 'even' thinking about immunology?" Immunology is like derm that pays a little less. It's pretty damn competitive since it's so cush. Not exactly a self-sacrificial alter.
2. Lol, even for me, who isn't particularly bleeding-heart, that seems pretty callous. I would want my doctor to have more empathy than that.
3. Status anxious much?
 
punkedoutriffs said:
I got into medicine cuz I'm from a middle class family and had no extraordinary talent or realistic opportunity to attain any higher aspirations. It's an honest job with interesting subject matter that pays well, gets social kudos, and gives me good job security. That's my honest personal statement. Who's with me?
Click to expand...

not from middle class (two physician parents) but the other reason pretty much apply to me with the addition that I was pretty much scared of trying to do another field where I might achieve more (financially/power wise) but the failure rate is much, much, much higher (i.e. finance, politics), I am just not competitive enough. medicine was interesting, help other people, and I don't have to ever worry about losing a job, looking for a job, or money. every time I have had to look for a job (during my gap years) I just sucked at it and relied on luck. with medicine I wont need as much luck.

also being able to understand what is going on to my parents as they age and be involved with their health issues was a major factor.
 
punkedoutriffs said:
1. So if medicine didn't exist, you would stay in bed all day? You need to think a little harder. There's a myriad of jobs I'd rather do for 50K if that's what medicine paid. Plus, "I'm 'even' thinking about immunology?" Immunology is like derm that pays a little less. It's pretty damn competitive since it's so cush. Not exactly a self-sacrificial alter.
2. Lol, even for me, who isn't particularly bleeding-heart, that seems pretty callous. I would want my doctor to have more empathy than that.
3. Status anxious much?
Click to expand...

Uhh, no. I wouldn't be in bed all day...I'd be an assistant editor, which is what I was before deciding I'd rather do medicine like I always wanted to. Previously I just wasn't willing to give up travel and youth.

I'm not sure what you find callous about that. I'm probably describing how 90% of people feel. Helping others is a fine bonus, but that's just not what this is about. I know there are some who are in it to help others...but I find it dubious that the majority of med students are motivated day in and out to learn medicine in order to help others. It's so much easier to learn medicine when you just like medicine. Doing it to help others seems exhausting. Even doing it for money seems a little exhausting.

Status? I'm not exactly sure what status you think doctors have...but I've had to get my white coats tailored because they just aren't stylish enough. Now it's lovely.
 
Anastomoses said:
Uhh, no. I wouldn't be in bed all day...I'd be an assistant editor, which is what I was before deciding I'd rather do medicine like I always wanted to. Previously I just wasn't willing to give up travel and youth.

I'm not sure what you find callous about that. I'm probably describing how 90% of people feel. Helping others is a fine bonus, but that's just not what this is about. I know there are some who are in it to help others...but I find it dubious that the majority of med students are motivated day in and out to learn medicine in order to help others. It's so much easier to learn medicine when you just like medicine. Doing it to help others seems exhausting. Even doing it for money seems a little exhausting.

Status? I'm not exactly sure what status you think doctors have...but I've had to get my white coats tailored because they just aren't stylish enough. Now it's lovely.
Click to expand...

Are you just an obtuse person? First of all, i'm not saying med students are fueled by compassion alone, but here's a minimum level of it that I'd like to see even in a regular person, let alone a doctor. The prospect of gaining knowledge to help others and make money seems exhausting? What the hell is exhausting about it? So you'd feel more energized learning about a subject knowing that you'll being using it to no benefit for anybody and also not get paid in the process?

And what status do I think doctors have? So there's no consensual recognition in our society that being a doctor is prestigious? More-so than say, a plumber, an actuary, or a restaurant manager, or most other jobs? If you really think this, then my God, you've either got some sort of Aspergers where you can't get this kind of stuff or you are deluding yourself.
 
Last edited:
michaelrack said:
Medicine is going from being a lower upper class job to a middle class job- the silver lining is that 20 years from now, being a doctor will be one of the few middle class jobs left.
Click to expand...

Medicine has never been an upper class job. Ever. It's an upper-middle class job, and yes there is a big difference even though the middle class constantly mistakes the upper-middle class for upper class. Upper class is a strata where money is no longer a concern and you can buy ridiculous things thanks to the fact that you've essentially entered the real life cheat code for infinite money, and it's also the only strata where your bloodline can play a big role. Think COs of corporations, high ranking federal politicians, and members of Old Rich families.

It is true though that the wealth of doctors is declining, but that's because everyone below the upper class is seeing a decline in wealth and buying power. Physicians still do better than most people, but unfortunately that's not saying much these days.
 
OCDOCDOCD said:
Medicine has never been an upper class job. Ever. It's an upper-middle class job, and yes there is a big difference even though the middle class constantly mistakes the upper-middle class for upper class. Upper class is a strata where money is no longer a concern and you can buy ridiculous things thanks to the fact that you've essentially entered the real life cheat code for infinite money, and it's also the only strata where your bloodline can play a big role. Think COs of corporations, high ranking federal politicians, and members of Old Rich families.

It is true though that the wealth of doctors is declining, but that's because everyone below the upper class is seeing a decline in wealth and buying power. Physicians still do better than most people, but unfortunately that's not saying much these days.
Click to expand...

It's the new aristocrat vs. peasant, patrician vs. plebian. For all our egalitarian ideals, our system ended up looking like every other diverging socio-economic model in history after all.
 
punkedoutriffs said:
Are you just an obtuse person? First of all, i'm not saying med students are fueled by compassion alone, but here's a minimum level of it that I'd like to see even in a regular person, let alone a doctor. The prospect of gaining knowledge to help others and make money seems exhausting? What the hell is exhausting about it? So you'd feel more energized learning about a subject knowing that you'll being using it to no benefit for anybody and also not get paid in the process?

And what status do I think doctors have? So there's no consensual recognition in our society that being a doctor is prestigious? More-so than say, a plumber, an actuary, or a restaurant manager, or most other jobs? If you really think this, then my God, you've either got some sort of Aspergers where you can't get this kind of stuff or you are deluding yourself.
Click to expand...

No. I think you're an obtuse person, honestly. My initial post already acknowledged that helping others is a fine compliment to the profession. Yet you find me so extreme. Um...? The rest of your statement is just all over the place. Gaining knowledge to help others would be incredibly exhausting say if I had to learn nuclear physics in order to help people. Duh. Or if I had to learn art history to help others...YES...that would exhaust me. but since my natural inclinations enjoy 90% of medicine related topics, it is not exhausting. Is this getting clearer for you yet?

As for your idea about a doctor's status...being a doctor is a respectable profession, but I certainly don't think it's some kind of rockstar/genius/oooooh and ahhhh thing. I guess you'll say I'm a snob but...um...plumber? restaurant manager? these are your comparisons? Plenty of people with a college degree have respectable jobs and they aren't doctors. I think maybe you're thinking of some era back like when airline pilots were rockstars and doctors used to be the hot thing. Doctors are just people. Plenty aren't even particularly sharp.
I also think I'd look snazzy in a flight suit. Is that another status issue I have?

OCDOCDOCD said:
Medicine has never been an upper class job. Ever. It's an upper-middle class job, and yes there is a big difference even though the middle class constantly mistakes the upper-middle class for upper class. Upper class is a strata where money is no longer a concern and you can buy ridiculous things thanks to the fact that you've essentially entered the real life cheat code for infinite money, and it's also the only strata where your bloodline can play a big role. Think COs of corporations, high ranking federal politicians, and members of Old Rich families.

It is true though that the wealth of doctors is declining, but that's because everyone below the upper class is seeing a decline in wealth and buying power. Physicians still do better than most people, but unfortunately that's not saying much these days.
Click to expand...

agreed. it's all relative. If all you've seen are plumbers and restaurant owners, doctors must look like gods.
 
Last edited:
Anastomoses said:
No. I think you're an obtuse person, honestly. My initial post already acknowledged that helping others is a fine compliment to the profession. Yet you find me so extreme. Um...? The rest of your statement is just all over the place. Gaining knowledge to help others would be incredibly exhausting say if I had to learn nuclear physics in order to help people. Duh. Or if I had to learn art history to help others...YES...that would exhaust me. but since my natural inclinations enjoy 90% of medicine related topics, it is not exhausting. Is this getting clearer for you yet?

As for your idea about a doctor's status...being a doctor is a respectable profession, but I certainly don't think it's some kind of rockstar/genius/oooooh and ahhhh thing. I guess you'll say I'm a snob but...um...plumber? restaurant manager? these are your comparisons? Plenty of people with a college degree have respectable jobs and they aren't doctors. I think maybe you're thinking of some era back like when airline pilots were rockstars and doctors used to be the hot thing. Doctors are just people. Plenty aren't even particularly sharp.
Click to expand...

Talk sense to a fool and he'll call you foolish. I give up. Someone stronger than me can pick up the baton.
 
OCDOCDOCD said:
Medicine has never been an upper class job. Ever. It's an upper-middle class job, and yes there is a big difference even though the middle class constantly mistakes the upper-middle class for upper class. Upper class is a strata where money is no longer a concern and you can buy ridiculous things thanks to the fact that you've essentially entered the real life cheat code for infinite money, and it's also the only strata where your bloodline can play a big role. Think COs of corporations, high ranking federal politicians, and members of Old Rich families.

It is true though that the wealth of doctors is declining, but that's because everyone below the upper class is seeing a decline in wealth and buying power. Physicians still do better than most people, but unfortunately that's not saying much these days.
Click to expand...

You know something is wrong when you define economic principles by philosophical means.

(Imb4 "one has to earn a salary that is thousands of standard deviations over the average or have immense political power in order to be upper class" :laugh:)
 
qwerty89 said:
On the bright side, Medicine is more "livable" than ever before. Want jobs 8am to 5pm no call and no weekends? Theres a job for you. Want to be a surgeon and not work 60+ hrs a week? You can do that too.

These changes have occurred for a variety of reasons: women entering medicine in higher numbers, bigger practices which allows for more flexibility at a cost of autonomy, etc
Click to expand...

Is it possible? Sure. But I wouldn't count on it. The vast majority of surgeons work well over 60 hrs a week. If you go into medicine expecting to not take call, to never work on weekends, or to work under 60hrs a week, chances are you'll be very disappointed.

Arkangeloid said:
I think this might be a definition thing...I would define "middle class" (not "upper middle class") as roughly 70-140K before taxes, which not a lot of full time physicians would fall into.

Then again, loans and a decade of lost income+investments hurt physicians a LOT.
Click to expand...

130K as middle class? Maybe if you had a huge family (like 5 kids) and lived in Manhattan. IMO that's well into the upper middle class range.

Hell, I'd probably even count 90K as upper middle class.

TheWeeIceMan said:
Yep. Depends a lot on where you live too. Where I'm from, you could live a pretty good upper middle class lifestyle on 100k+.In California, I'm sure it wouldn't go very far.
Click to expand...

100K in CA qualifies you for Welfare. I'm pretty sure that's what most of those hispanic migrant farm workers make as well.
 
OCDOCDOCD said:
Medicine has never been an upper class job. Ever. It's an upper-middle class job, and yes there is a big difference even though the middle class constantly mistakes the upper-middle class for upper class. Upper class is a strata where money is no longer a concern and you can buy ridiculous things thanks to the fact that you've essentially entered the real life cheat code for infinite money, and it's also the only strata where your bloodline can play a big role. Think COs of corporations, high ranking federal politicians, and members of Old Rich families.

It is true though that the wealth of doctors is declining, but that's because everyone below the upper class is seeing a decline in wealth and buying power. Physicians still do better than most people, but unfortunately that's not saying much these days.
Click to expand...

Huh? Congressmen and State Reps are currently paid 174K/yr. That's less than the salary of most primary care docs.

Sure most politicians come from rich families and it takes a pretty penny to run a successful campaign, but once in office they're certainly not making bank.
 
alpinism said:
Huh? Congressmen and State Reps are currently paid 174K/yr. That's less than the salary of most primary care docs.

Sure most politicians come from rich families and it takes a pretty penny to run a successful campaign, but once in office they're certainly not making bank.
Click to expand...

They get paid under the table from special interests.
 
alpinism said:
Huh? Congressmen and State Reps are currently paid 174K/yr. That's less than the salary of most primary care docs.

Sure most politicians come from rich families and it takes a pretty penny to run a successful campaign, but once in office they're certainly not making bank.
Click to expand...

and yet they don't work weekends, have a month off in the summer, maintain other business interests and engage in insider training.
113thcongress1stsession.jpg
 
alpinism said:
Huh? Congressmen and State Reps are currently paid 174K/yr. That's less than the salary of most primary care docs.

Sure most politicians come from rich families and it takes a pretty penny to run a successful campaign, but once in office they're certainly not making bank.
Click to expand...

They often become rich after they leave office
 
alpinism said:
Is it possible? Sure. But I wouldn't count on it. The vast majority of surgeons work well over 60 hrs a week. If you go into medicine expecting to not take call, to never work on weekends, or to work under 60hrs a week, chances are you'll be very disappointed.

.
Click to expand...

It is possible to get a 9-5 psychiatry position. There are some positions also like this in primary care. It will cost you, though.
 
People have been complaining about the death of medicine for 30 plus years now. I once found a New England Journal article from the mid 80's that essentially voiced all the complaints that anyone on SDN has ever voiced, and I'm willing to bet that there were similar complaints 30 plus years prior to that. When residencies started becoming common in the 50's I'm sure there were people predicting the end of the physician then too. Same thing with the creation of Medicare, the advent of the HMO and now, Obamacare. Clearly though, in other countries, other payment structures exist and the best and brightest still flock to medicine there.

Is it changing? Yes. Is it any better or worse than it ever was? Probably not, just with different considerations. Whether it's work hours, malpractice premiums, government control, HMO's, angry patients, Press Gainey scores, rising medical school tuition costs, ridiculous paperwork or encroachment by mid-level providers, there's always going to be something to complain about. But in the end, if it's the right profession for you it'll be worth it - I had a day today where I spent the majority of my 11.5 hours at the hospital at the bedside of a previously healthy 17 y/o who went into hemorrhagic shock and DIC after a drug overdose, a day where I had to walk her mother through a DNR decision and deal with the knowledge that my best might possibly not be good enough for this child...and yet at the end of the day before I went home, that same mom gave me hug and thanked me, I (perhaps more importantly for my self esteem) was intellectually challenged and came out on top as the child got better, and from a pure happiness standpoint didn't have to spend 10 hours stuck in a cubicle looking at a computer screen making money for people I didn't know or care about. All in all, despite the tragic nature of the PICU sometimes, that was a pretty damn good day, one that I can be proud of. What more can I really ask for?

So it comes down to perspective, knowing what satisfies you and finding joy in the things that happen on a regular basis (intellectual challenge/curiosity) and not counting on the things that rarely happen (patients thanking you and giving hugs).
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
lol never mind weekends. They never work more than 4 days in a row and basically get a spring break on top of that.
Click to expand...

In fairness, when you represent a state like Hawai'i or Alaska or west coast you need enough time to go home, have some sort of interaction with constituents (even if it is exclusive expensive fundraisers). that's hard to do if they don't get more than 4 days off.

at least in theory that's why they get so much time off. the insider trading issue is way more sinister.
 
BigRedBeta said:
People have been complaining about the death of medicine for 30 plus years now. I once found a New England Journal article from the mid 80's that essentially voiced all the complaints that anyone on SDN has ever voiced, and I'm willing to bet that there were similar complaints 30 plus years prior to that. When residencies started becoming common in the 50's I'm sure there were people predicting the end of the physician then too. Same thing with the creation of Medicare, the advent of the HMO and now, Obamacare. Clearly though, in other countries, other payment structures exist and the best and brightest still flock to medicine there.

Is it changing? Yes. Is it any better or worse than it ever was? Probably not, just with different considerations. Whether it's work hours, malpractice premiums, government control, HMO's, angry patients, Press Gainey scores, rising medical school tuition costs, ridiculous paperwork or encroachment by mid-level providers, there's always going to be something to complain about. But in the end, if it's the right profession for you it'll be worth it - I had a day today where I spent the majority of my 11.5 hours at the hospital at the bedside of a previously healthy 17 y/o who went into hemorrhagic shock and DIC after a drug overdose, a day where I had to walk her mother through a DNR decision and deal with the knowledge that my best might possibly not be good enough for this child...and yet at the end of the day before I went home, that same mom gave me hug and thanked me, I (perhaps more importantly for my self esteem) was intellectually challenged and came out on top as the child got better, and from a pure happiness standpoint didn't have to spend 10 hours stuck in a cubicle looking at a computer screen making money for people I didn't know or care about. All in all, despite the tragic nature of the PICU sometimes, that was a pretty damn good day, one that I can be proud of. What more can I really ask for?

So it comes down to perspective, knowing what satisfies you and finding joy in the things that happen on a regular basis (intellectual challenge/curiosity) and not counting on the things that rarely happen (patients thanking you and giving hugs).
Click to expand...

yup in my research on medical education in 1910-1920 you would be amazed (or actually you probably wouldn't be) how many articles and speeches were given on the coming death of the profession.
 
BigRedBeta said:
People have been complaining about the death of medicine for 30 plus years now. I once found a New England Journal article from the mid 80's that essentially voiced all the complaints that anyone on SDN has ever voiced, and I'm willing to bet that there were similar complaints 30 plus years prior to that. When residencies started becoming common in the 50's I'm sure there were people predicting the end of the physician then too. Same thing with the creation of Medicare, the advent of the HMO and now, Obamacare. Clearly though, in other countries, other payment structures exist and the best and brightest still flock to medicine there.

The 80's were the golden age of medicine- Medicare still reimbursed at high rates and there was a rapid rate of technological innovation. Medicine isn't going to die, but its attractiveness as a profession will continue to slowly decline as physician reimbursement and autonomy gets further squeezed. The one thing possibly preventing the decline in medicine's attractiveness is the relative rate of decline of society in general (the quality of a medical career is declining, but the overall quality of careers/jobs available in America may be declining at a faster rate).
Click to expand...
 
michaelrack said:
BigRedBeta said:
People have been complaining about the death of medicine for 30 plus years now. I once found a New England Journal article from the mid 80's that essentially voiced all the complaints that anyone on SDN has ever voiced, and I'm willing to bet that there were similar complaints 30 plus years prior to that. When residencies started becoming common in the 50's I'm sure there were people predicting the end of the physician then too. Same thing with the creation of Medicare, the advent of the HMO and now, Obamacare. Clearly though, in other countries, other payment structures exist and the best and brightest still flock to medicine there.

The 80's were the golden age of medicine- Medicare still reimbursed at high rates and there was a rapid rate of technological innovation. Medicine isn't going to die, but its attractiveness as a profession will continue to slowly decline as physician reimbursement and autonomy gets further squeezed. The one thing possibly preventing the decline in medicine's attractiveness is the relative rate of decline of society in general (the quality of a medical career is declining, but the overall quality of careers/jobs available in America may be declining at a faster rate).
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, when did you start practicing?
Click to expand...
 
Doudline said:
You know something is wrong when you define economic principles by philosophical means.

(Imb4 "one has to earn a salary that is thousands of standard deviations over the average or have immense political power in order to be upper class" :laugh:)
Click to expand...

alpinism said:
Huh? Congressmen and State Reps are currently paid 174K/yr. That's less than the salary of most primary care docs.

Sure most politicians come from rich families and it takes a pretty penny to run a successful campaign, but once in office they're certainly not making bank.
Click to expand...

Class structure is about more than money. Money plays a massive role, yes, but there's also prestige involved. Hence why college professors are typically considered part of the upper-middle class even though their incomes are pitiful. Federal politicians fall into this scheme as well. They may make little money relative to the rest of the upper class, but their prestige and, more importantly, power more than makes up for it. The President may only make $400k a year and live in public housing, but you'd be very hard pressed to argue that he's not at or near the top of the social echelon, much less in the upper class.

It's also worth pointing out that while Congressmen make $174k on paper, they have many other sources of income. Insider trading is a big one. Bribes are another (oh, sorry, "gifts from lobbyists"). And most of them had substantial wealth before entering office, which brings up a key point: There's a reason why it's not unheard of for wealthy CEOs to pay tens of millions of dollars to try to become a senator or some other high ranking politician.
 
OCDOCDOCD said:
Class structure is about more than money. Money plays a massive role, yes, but there's also prestige involved. Hence why college professors are typically considered part of the upper-middle class even though their incomes are pitiful. Federal politicians fall into this scheme as well. They may make little money relative to the rest of the upper class, but their prestige and, more importantly, power more than makes up for it. The President may only make $400k a year and live in public housing, but you'd be very hard pressed to argue that he's not at or near the top of the social echelon, much less in the upper class.

It's also worth pointing out that while Congressmen make $174k on paper, they have many other sources of income. Insider trading is a big one. Bribes are another (oh, sorry, "gifts from lobbyists"). And most of them had substantial wealth before entering office, which brings up a key point: There's a reason why it's not unheard of for wealthy CEOs to pay tens of millions of dollars to try to become a senator or some other high ranking politician.
Click to expand...

You keep changing your definitions bro.

Previously it was:

"Upper class is a strata where money is no longer a concern and you can buy ridiculous things thanks to the fact that you've essentially entered the real life cheat code for infinite money, and it's also the only strata where your bloodline can play a big role."

First, recognize that this is a completely made up definition. Also "money is no longer a concern" and "ridiculous things" is completely relative. Is someone making a million dollars a year someone who doesn't have to worry about money? If not, are these people not "upper class"? I know plenty of people making that much and money is certainly "still a concern". If you're only defining the upper class as the stupdrich (peole with hundreds of millions to their name) then you're including a lot of super rich people (just a few millions) as upper middle class which pretty much no one would agree with you on.

Besides, you pretty much contradict yourself by saying "class structure is more than money" and then kicking doctors out of the club for not making enough money...

Lots of upper-middle class kids on this thread who don't realize that by breaking the 100k mark you've already entered the upper middle class for the most part.
 
I wish I could've read the comment in the Forbes article. I couldn't access them. I get a kick out of the disparity between the public's perception of us and the reality of our educational overhead, etc.

Good link though, thanks.
 
Arkangeloid said:
Just read this article today.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgo...-will-have-to-take-a-pay-cut-under-obamacare/


I should have become a dentist or an engineer. If medicine keeps getting worse and worse in the coming decades, I'll think about getting an MBA or a JD so I can leave clinical practice.
Click to expand...

Not to say everything in that article is a blatant falsehood, but forbes is pretty much written by conservatives for conservatives. Look especially at other articles that guy has written. I'm not surprised that they had found significant issues with Obamacare. Like I said, there are definitely some possibilities present there, but I don't think I can read that one article and go "omg totally time to completely switch career paths".
 
Spinach Dip said:
Sorry, did you just suggest you would drop out of med school to go to LAW school?

My ears must be deceiving me.
Click to expand...

A JD after the MD is the way I took it. I've always wondered how "in demand" an MD/JD would be (assuming clinical experience).
 
JourneyAgent said:
I wish I could've read the comment in the Forbes article. I couldn't access them. I get a kick out of the disparity between the public's perception of us and the reality of our educational overhead, etc.

Good link though, thanks.
Click to expand...

The comments are pretty banal, actually. Mostly just disgruntled physicians.


Spinach Dip said:
Sorry, did you just suggest you would drop out of med school to go to LAW school?

My ears must be deceiving me.
Click to expand...

Lol no. I meant that if clinical practice got to the point where it wasn't worth it financially to me, I would leave clinical practice by any means necessary. If that meant going to an MBA program so I could get a job in healthcare admin, I would do that. If that meant getting a JD so I could work in healthcare law, I would do that. If that meant joining or consulting for a Biotech firm, I would do that. If that meant being a professional witness in medmal suits, I would do that.

For a new college kid looking at options, Law and the PhD are about as bad as it gets right now. I guess that might contribute to why so many people are interested in medicine despite that the job isn't what it used to be.
 
Last edited:
Arkangeloid said:
Lol no. I meant that if clinical practice got to the point where it wasn't worth it financially to me, I would leave clinical practice by any means necessary. If that meant going to an MBA program so I could get a job in healthcare admin, I would do that. If that meant getting a JD so I could work in healthcare law, I would do that. If that meant joining or consulting for a Biotech firm, I would do that. If that meant being a professional witness in medmal suits, I would do that.

For a new college kid looking at options, Law and the PhD are about as bad as it gets right now. I guess that might contribute to why so many people are interested in medicine despite that the job isn't what it used to be.
Click to expand...

Ok. Gotcha.

You had me worried for a moment, though. :scared:
 
Arkangeloid said:
The comments are pretty banal, actually. Mostly just disgruntled physicians.




Lol no. I meant that if clinical practice got to the point where it wasn't worth it financially to me, I would leave clinical practice by any means necessary. If that meant going to an MBA program so I could get a job in healthcare admin, I would do that. If that meant getting a JD so I could work in healthcare law, I would do that. If that meant joining or consulting for a Biotech firm, I would do that. If that meant being a professional witness in medmal suits, I would do that.

For a new college kid looking at options, Law and the PhD are about as bad as it gets right now. I guess that might contribute to why so many people are interested in medicine despite that the job isn't what it used to be.
Click to expand...


at least with a PhD you don't pay for anything and actually get a stipend (20k-30k depending on school). Law, I really don't understand why anyone goes to anything outside of a top 30 law school (unless it is your public law school).
 
fourhumours said:
at least with a PhD you don't pay for anything and actually get a stipend (20k-30k depending on school). Law, I really don't understand why anyone goes to anything outside of a top 30 law school (unless it is your public law school).
Click to expand...

then again with a ph.d., you could get stuck in postdoc purgatory for quite a few years. you won't be able to save much
 
Here's some more good news just released Monday. The CMS has proposed increasing outpatient reimbursement by 1.8% and inpatient reimbursement by 2.5%. Ambulatory surgical services will go up by .9%.

http://www.beckershospitalreview.co...edicare-outpatient-payments-to-hospitals.html

In another article I found, it says that according to the new Physician Pay Schedule, Anesthesiology reimbursement will go up by 3% in the new year and Nurse Anesthetists will go up by 4%.

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/blog/2013/07/proposed-medicare-rules-positive-for.html
 
it's all in your head.

jmo but residency is awesome, way better than med school, which wasn't that bad.. and intern year was actually pretty fun overall.

right now I'm a pgy2 learning a ton, gradually feeling comfortable in my specialty. in 2 years I'll be making around $300k for ~35 hours/wk. I love my specialty because it's a never ending challenge and continuous onslaught of different problems to solve and has a lot of instantly gratifying procedures, etc etc, but lets be honest: i lived on like $10k/yr from the time i was 18 til 28, money matters, and the thought that my monthly take home is gonna be like $17k in only a short amount of time is ****ing awesome and in addition to saving blah blah i'm also gonna be eating a **** ton of steak, buying awesome toys, traveling around doing all the stuff my nursing friends have been doing for 10 years already..
 
e30ftw said:
it's all in your head.

jmo but residency is awesome, way better than med school, which wasn't that bad.. and intern year was actually pretty fun overall.

right now I'm a pgy2 learning a ton, gradually feeling comfortable in my specialty. in 2 years I'll be making around $300k for ~35 hours/wk. I love my specialty because it's a never ending challenge and continuous onslaught of different problems to solve and has a lot of instantly gratifying procedures, etc etc, but lets be honest: i lived on like $10k/yr from the time i was 18 til 28, money matters, and the thought that my monthly take home is gonna be like $17k in only a short amount of time is ****ing awesome and in addition to saving blah blah i'm also gonna be eating a **** ton of steak, buying awesome toys, traveling around doing all the stuff my nursing friends have been doing for 10 years already..
Click to expand...

EM or Derm?
 
read the next sentence "continuous onslaught of different problems.."

that and the general scatterbrained nature of my post combined w/ poor capitalization and foul language strongly suggest emergency medicine, lol.
 
e30ftw said:
read the next sentence "continuous onslaught of different problems.."

that and the general scatterbrained nature of my post combined w/ poor capitalization and foul language strongly suggest emergency medicine, lol.
Click to expand...

😉
 
I think people are thinking about this too hard. Yes, a lot of doctors say, "DO NOT GO INTO MEDICINE, we do not get paid nearly as much as you hear! And the debt is terrible!" I respect most people, but I think the doctors who say this do not really realize what they have. It is true, there is a high percentage of doctors who would choose a different career path. Most "real" adults with careers I have talked to, also say they would choose a different career path. It is a JOB. Being a doctor is a HARD JOB. I have not really found a career where any people really say, "yes, I would choose this job for the rest of my life again." So we need to get past the part of how much it sucks, it is a job. It did used to be better, but it could be much worse.
I think being a doctor has a great silver lining, the list includes: the best job security (or at least up there), very high income (really, who says "yes, I am paid enough," seriously, I can not name five people I know who say they are/were paid enough in any career (even engineers and lawyers say they are not paid enough), you get to save lives for gosh sakes, you are called Dr. (seriously, women dig it), you are pretty much the boss when you walk into a room in a hospital (that may be exaggerated, but you get my point), while the economy is fails healthcare is needed even more... and a bunch of other reasons if you truly love being a doctor.

I personally chalk it up to this- if you do not love it, there is no way in hell you should do it. If it is not your calling, there is no way you should consider it because of the massive toll on your life and commitment it takes to become an MD. If you do want to do it, and it is the one thing you've always wanted to do and are lucky enough to be accepted into a medical school, there is no way in hell you should pass up an awesome chance at a good (at the very least I would consider it to be good) salary and an amazing achievement.

I won't respond to any insults or arguments, but I'd be happy to debate/defend/explain what I have said further!
 
That is true, women seem to like doctors quite a bit. I mean, that's the only reason Grey's Anatomy is somehow STILL on the air. After all, no self-respecting man would watch a sex-and-drama soap opera, so women have to be the only people watching it.
 
nervouskid said:
I think people are thinking about this too hard. Yes, a lot of doctors say, "DO NOT GO INTO MEDICINE, we do not get paid nearly as much as you hear! And the debt is terrible!" I respect most people, but I think the doctors who say this do not really realize what they have. It is true, there is a high percentage of doctors who would choose a different career path. Most "real" adults with careers I have talked to, also say they would choose a different career path. It is a JOB. Being a doctor is a HARD JOB. I have not really found a career where any people really say, "yes, I would choose this job for the rest of my life again." So we need to get past the part of how much it sucks, it is a job. It did used to be better, but it could be much worse.
I think being a doctor has a great silver lining, the list includes: the best job security (or at least up there), very high income (really, who says "yes, I am paid enough," seriously, I can not name five people I know who say they are/were paid enough in any career (even engineers and lawyers say they are not paid enough), you get to save lives for gosh sakes, you are called Dr. (seriously, women dig it), you are pretty much the boss when you walk into a room in a hospital (that may be exaggerated, but you get my point), while the economy is fails healthcare is needed even more... and a bunch of other reasons if you truly love being a doctor.

I personally chalk it up to this- if you do not love it, there is no way in hell you should do it. If it is not your calling, there is no way you should consider it because of the massive toll on your life and commitment it takes to become an MD. If you do want to do it, and it is the one thing you've always wanted to do and are lucky enough to be accepted into a medical school, there is no way in hell you should pass up an awesome chance at a good (at the very least I would consider it to be good) salary and an amazing achievement.

I won't respond to any insults or arguments, but I'd be happy to debate/defend/explain what I have said further!
Click to expand...

1) You're not a medical student.
2) Quiet freshman.
 
nervouskid said:
I think people are thinking about this too hard. Yes, a lot of doctors say, "DO NOT GO INTO MEDICINE, we do not get paid nearly as much as you hear! And the debt is terrible!" I respect most people, but I think the doctors who say this do not really realize what they have. It is true, there is a high percentage of doctors who would choose a different career path. Most "real" adults with careers I have talked to, also say they would choose a different career path. It is a JOB. Being a doctor is a HARD JOB. I have not really found a career where any people really say, "yes, I would choose this job for the rest of my life again." So we need to get past the part of how much it sucks, it is a job. It did used to be better, but it could be much worse.
I think being a doctor has a great silver lining, the list includes: the best job security (or at least up there), very high income (really, who says "yes, I am paid enough," seriously, I can not name five people I know who say they are/were paid enough in any career (even engineers and lawyers say they are not paid enough), you get to save lives for gosh sakes, you are called Dr. (seriously, women dig it), you are pretty much the boss when you walk into a room in a hospital (that may be exaggerated, but you get my point), while the economy is fails healthcare is needed even more... and a bunch of other reasons if you truly love being a doctor.

I personally chalk it up to this- if you do not love it, there is no way in hell you should do it. If it is not your calling, there is no way you should consider it because of the massive toll on your life and commitment it takes to become an MD. If you do want to do it, and it is the one thing you've always wanted to do and are lucky enough to be accepted into a medical school, there is no way in hell you should pass up an awesome chance at a good (at the very least I would consider it to be good) salary and an amazing achievement.

I won't respond to any insults or arguments, but I'd be happy to debate/defend/explain what I have said further!
Click to expand...

lol kid hasn't even started his 6 year ba/md program but is somehow a "medical student"
 
Arkangeloid said:
That is true, women seem to like doctors quite a bit. I mean, that's the only reason Grey's Anatomy is somehow STILL on the air. After all, no self-respecting man would watch a sex-and-drama soap opera, so women have to be the only people watching it.
Click to expand...

Grey's Anatomy is that like a show about anatomy lab or something?
 
madchemist89 said:
Grey's Anatomy is that like a show about anatomy lab or something?
Click to expand...

No. Actually it doesn't really have much to do with medicine at all, it's mostly about sex, death, and drama that happens to occur in a dramatized hospital.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

G
School JUST announced grading change for Incoming M1s - Is there anything I can do?
Replies
12
Views
2K
ABCWRDB
ABCWRDB
C
Why is the NBME test taking software so ****ty?
Replies
2
Views
644
voxveritatisetlucis
V
S
Preventive Medicine Residency is a Sinking Ship
Replies
3
Views
1K
Taddy Mason
Taddy Mason
B
If someone doesn't match from the caribbean are there alternate career pathways?
Replies
10
Views
2K
SurfingDoctor
SurfingDoctor
T
MD & DO Why is neurology residency considered so tough?
Replies
9
Views
3K
mrbreakfast
M
Top