So which Harvard is tougher to get into?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
M

Mr. Furious

Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2002
Messages
88
Reaction score
0
Members do not see this ad.
Harvard Medical School or Harvard undergraduate school? I was wondering about this because...well I could transfer to Harvard undergrad, that might put me in a more favorable light later when it comes to applying to the med school. Yes? No? Perhaps? Maybe? Any H undergrads in this group?

Mr. 😡
 
I would think that Harvard Med is harder to get into. For undergrad isn't the hardest school to get into Princeton? anyways...I really don't know but I just thought I place my opinion.
 
if you can and WANT to transfer to harvard undergrad, then do it.
bc it's much easier to get into harvard med school if you went there for undergrad.

i've heard a lot of different numbers on this...
one person at HMS told me it's like 40% of HMS students went to harvard undergrad.
and then a premed harvard undergrad told me it's almost 50%.

both of those numbers seem rather high but i think it speaks the truth of the matter.
that whatever the exact percentage, it's HIGH.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by MrFurious:
•Harvard Medical School or Harvard undergraduate school? I was wondering about this because...well I could transfer to Harvard undergrad, that might put me in a more favorable light later when it comes to applying to the med school. Yes? No? Perhaps? Maybe? Any H undergrads in this group?

Mr. 😡 •••••Harvard Med School is harder to get into -- it has an acceptance rate of about 5% (not that much different than most of med schools across the country). That's a lot lower than it's undergrad rate. As far as transferring there - that's a lot harder than applying and getting in before you go to college. Also, that might not be the best idea anyway. A lot of graduate schools (and I'm assuming med school too...) prefer to take people that went to other schools because those kids had different professors/experiences/points of view etc. If a school just accepts people that went to its undergrad college ideas/creativity/knowledge stays stale. I would suggest just staying at the school you're currently attending. You should be fine 🙂 (what school do you go to by the way?)
 
when you say medical school are you talking about new pathway or HST? i have a few friends doing ph.d in the HST program, but man i think it's tough to get in for med school.
 
I actually have heard and seen stats that suggest the opposite. I think I saw somewhere that if you are a Harvard undergrad applying to Harvard med, the chances of getting in are 2%. It's a little higher if you are from another undergrad applying to Harvard med. However, do a search for stats...it's got to be on the web somewhere.
 
My cousin went to Harvard undergard and didn't get in to their med school. I think he had a 4.0 gpa, and very outstanding and unusual ECs. But he's not complaining at Columbia Med.......

It's only better to go to an ivy if you can do REALLY well there....i.e., a 3.5 at Harvard is still a 3.5, and some med schools don't realize how much harder you worked to get that 3.5 than a student from a lower-tier college might have. They don't think that a 3.5 at Harvard is better than a 4.0 at no-name school....although some might!

It's better to just do your best at any undergrad and wow them with something unusual like cool ECs.
 
No offense or anything, but this is not the way to decide whether or not to transfer to Harvard for UG. There is not way that you can base your decisions on planning on trying to get into Harvard Med. The admissions process is extremely random and does not make that much sense. You should base your decision on where you think you will be able to use the resources to excel. If you are doing really well where you are and you are happy, then there may be no reason to leave. If you want to go to Harvard then go. I don't think it is worth playing the percentage game. But I could be wrong...
 
okay i'm too lazy to actually look up the stats...
but the HMS class is made up of an awful lot of harvard undergrads... that HAS to be true... i've been told that by several people.

and actually, a lot of med schools do accept many students from their undergrad.
 
Somehow I don't think going to Harvard UG is going to hurt you in the admissions process at ANY school! It is true that graduate programs generally dislike taking thir own undergrads because of the inbreeding of ideas, but that is not an issue at all for medical school and thus med schools actually often like their own undergrads, especially public schools.
 
The bottom line is that you should go where you're happy. Don't just transfer to harvard if you think it might improve your chances. You can get into Harvard med school no matter which school you went to as long as you do well at that school. And I don't know if the fact that Harvard med school has so many Harvard undergrads means that it's easier to get in as an Harvard undergard. It probably just means that Harvard undergrads are more likely to apply and to attend Harvard. I know that that's a trend in many other schools as well.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Doctor Foxy:
•My cousin went to Harvard undergard and didn't get in to their med school. I think he had a 4.0 gpa, and very outstanding and unusual •••••That, my friend, is extremely unlikely. If I remember correctly there hasn't been a Harvard undergrad with a 4.0 since 1982. Can anyone offer insight here?
 
OK, I said I think. It may have been a 3.9, but I know he had all As except for one B+ (He may have had a few A minuses). I was exaggerating a little <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

People say he didn't get in b/c he doesn't interview well, but its very hush hush around those little family gatherings, so I don't know the details
 
The % of Harvard UGs at HMS is no higher than 20%. That does not mean it's easier to get into HMS from Harvard UG. HMS deliberately keeps the percentage they take from undergrad at a certain level, so pre-med undergrads end up competing against eachother for those few slots. That's some sick competition. Kids at Harvard are literally freeing slaves in Africa and immunizing entire villages in India. Also, generally speaking, Harvard doesn't care about good teaching, which means your classes will be that much more difficult to do well in. On the other hand, going to Harvard UG may be a good way to get into Columbia (~35 out of 150 in 2000). :wink:

Overall I'd agree with BME02 and bomback. Go where you're happy, the admissions process is way too random for anything else.
 
I don't think it's that hard to get a 4.0 at Harvard for undergrad. I think like 80% of the marks they give out are A- or higher - there was a thread on SDN a couple months ago about grade inflation at Harvard - I'm too lazy to look for it right now, but do a search for it.

I don't think we should be putting HMS on some sort of pedestal. There are plenty of people who turn down HMS every year to go to other top 10 schools. The same is probably true for undergrad. It's a great school, true. But I don't think they admit only geniuses who have discovered a cure for cancer...
 
not to be putting HMS on a pedestal like brandonite pointed out... but i went to my interview with a completely negative attitude bc i think Harvard is full of crap.
but i was so extremely surprised at how nice everything and everyone was.
i don't know what i expected but their facilities are IMPRESSIVE. there is no question whether or not they have money. that place is just spilling over.
 
I have to disagree with you on that one Brandonite. My sister is a freshman at Harvard and pulled all A's and one A- this Fall semester. Not once did she say the work was easy...my god I couldn't even help her with her Chemistry classwork when she had a concept question for me.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by leorl:
•I actually have heard and seen stats that suggest the opposite. I think I saw somewhere that if you are a Harvard undergrad applying to Harvard med, the chances of getting in are 2%. It's a little higher if you are from another undergrad applying to Harvard med. However, do a search for stats...it's got to be on the web somewhere.•••••I would say that Harvard undergrad would have a better chance of getting into Harvard med than undergrads from other schools. Med schools tend to favor applicants for their own undergrad; that's not a well-kept secret. For example, Harvard probably accepts three or four students each year from EACH of, say, Columbia, Brown, Cornell, Penn, UC Berkeley, U of Chicago, Dartmouth, etc. But you know all the best premeds students from these schools apply to Harvard med and compete with one another. On the other hand, maybe VERY conservatively Harvard med has 15% of its spots reserved for harvard undergrads. With 160 people in each class, that's a whopping (comparatively) 24 spots available to them. I don't see how you can justify that Harvard does NOT favor its own undergrads.

leorl's number is so off the base, intuitively. Say 24 spots are available for Harvard undergrads and Harvard has to accept 30 to fill those 24 spots. 30 divided .02 = 1500. You have to have 1) 1500 Harvard premeds every year, 2) all of them have to apply to Harvard med (whether they feel they have a legit shot or not) and 3) this is only assuming 15% of the Harvard med class is filled with Harvard undergrad. VERY VERY VERY unlikely....
 
gotta agree with brandonite
while the Harvard kids at work wont admit it, the MIT kids who work with me are quick to point out that Harvard classes are A- centered.
I'm inclined to believe it when you consider that &gt;90% of the Harvard class graduates with honors.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Doctor Foxy:
•OK, I said I think. It may have been a 3.9, but I know he had all As except for one B+ (He may have had a few A minuses). I was exaggerating a little <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

People say he didn't get in b/c he doesn't interview well, but its very hush hush around those little family gatherings, so I don't know the details•••••Sorry if I sounded harsh; that certainly wasn't my intention. While it is quite easy to graduate with honors at Harvard, pulling a 4.0 is another story. I believe there was an article in the student newspaper last year about it. I can't seem to find it, though.
 
Did you guys see that 20/20 "give me a break" segment last year? It was all about Harvard's grade inflation.
 
<a href="http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/2020/GMAB_010309_gradeinflation.html" target="_blank">http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/2020/GMAB_010309_gradeinflation.html</a>
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by brandonite:
•I don't think it's that hard to get a 4.0 at Harvard for undergrad. I think like 80% of the marks they give out are A- or higher - there was a thread on SDN a couple months ago about grade inflation at Harvard - I'm too lazy to look for it right now, but do a search for it.

I don't think we should be putting HMS on some sort of pedestal. There are plenty of people who turn down HMS every year to go to other top 10 schools. The same is probably true for undergrad. It's a great school, true. But I don't think they admit only geniuses who have discovered a cure for cancer...•••••Harvard is known for grade inflation but not 80% getting A's. It is probably closer to 50%.

On one hand, grade inflation is rampant at Harvard. But on the other hand, it is inappropriate to underestimate the type of students who go there. The key is to have a balanced perspective. I went to an undergrad school that was known for grade deflation. So I have a mixed feeling about this topic. But since no one goes to both schools, it is hard to say.

I doubt lots of people turn down HMS to go to other top 10 schools. That's more of an exception than rule.
 
The abc website above says 26% get A's, but I'm not sure if they are specifically talking about Harvard w/ that stat.

p.s. Do you guys have problems typing the word Harvard? I keep having to fix typos from typing Hravrad 😕 maybe I'm dyslexic
 
A bunch of things:

1 - I'm not putting down HMS or Harvard in any way. They're great schools. If I get in there, I'll be incredibly happy.

2 - I don't disagree with grade inflation at Harvard. I've said before that I think it's reasonable. The kind of students that go to Harvard all probably deserve A's. But I don't think it's appreciably harder to pull off a 4.0 at Harvard than at Princeton, Yale, Duke, or Stanford. And I think that all of those top 10 schools are very similar in terms of the students, faculty, and quality of education.

3 - I've heard (I believe it was here on SDN) that about 35% of ppl accepted to HMS turn it down to go to other top schools. Duke and Stanford are at the top of my list, not HMS.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by E'01:
•I have to disagree with you on that one Brandonite. My sister is a freshman at Harvard and pulled all A's and one A- this Fall semester. Not once did she say the work was easy...my god I couldn't even help her with her Chemistry classwork when she had a concept question for me.•••••Recently a Boston newspaper (Boston Globe?) did some research into the question of grade inflation at Harvard. They found that the mean grade at Harvard for all classes is an A- . That is ridiculous. By no means am I suggesting that the work is easy but I am suggesting, as did the newspaper and even Harvard's new President, that the grades that are given in most classes are not representative of a normal "curve" that you should see in ALL academic class regardless of the quality of the students. The average grade in the class should receive an average letter grade (between a C and maybe a B- depending on the Professor etc). Even if the average grade for some test is a 92 (or "A" quality writing on a paper) the 92 should be set to the mean and accordingly assigned a letter grade between C and B-. How much better or worse you are than the mean determines your letter grade. If that happens then you know that only the BEST students are getting the As. This is how it is done at other top institutions. Another interesting fact -- all it takes to graduate w/ Honors at Harvard is a 2.7 GPA You do not have to write a thesis or do any research or anything else of that nature. All you out there that went to other schools and worked your ass off to grad w/honors might want to chew on that a bit. Again, I'm not bashing on the quality of the academics at Harvard as they are no doubt top notch -- but they way they are represented in the students grades is simply wrong -- and the University is beginning to admit this and try to change it.
 
So that movie "With Honors" is wrong huh? It depicted that you had to write a thesis to graduate with honors at Harvard.
 
One more thing to add about transferring to Harvard, I think (like everyone else on the thread) you should transfer only if you feel you will be happy at Harvard. Don't transfer just to get into Med School because you will actually be setting yourself back. As a transfer student myself, I can tell you that getting credits to transfer over is so crazy difficult (and I transferred to a 2nd tier school closer to my home)!!! I would expect Harvard to be even more critical about accepting credits, so its a good chance you'd have to repeat some courses just to fulfill academic requirements.

Tob
 
Just to point out, there are a quite a number of schools which are more difficult to get A's in than Harvard, and they are actually noted by med schools. From the people in admissions offices that i've talked to people from schools like UCLA and Stanford who pull off 4.0 are more noteworthy than people from Harvard who have 4.0.
 
Quick thing about honors at Harvard--in some concentrations you do need to write a thesis, in some you don't. For those that you don't, in most cases you must take advanced courses in your concentration to honor. As a Classics major, I had the option of not writing a thesis, but instead taking grad-level Latin and Greek prose composition courses. (I actually did both.) Chem majors are strongly encouraged not to write thesis because the resources (lab space, money, etc.) simply are not available for them for an original thesis. (Other sciences, such as biochem and environmental science, do write theses--they work in a lab with another scientist and do work related to theirs.)

Yes, you can graduate with honors in general studies, which means that you have maintained a B- or above average (like high school). But it means far, far more to graduate with honors in your concentration--this is where the cum laude, magna, and summa designations come in--because you need the recommendation of both your department and the university.

Still, at least half of us do graduate with honors in our concentrations. But I do not think this is unwarranted in any way. I saw how much my friends and classmates worked and how well they have done since graduating.

But 😡 , I don't think that I would transfer there just to be on some fictional fast track to HMS. Really only go there if you would be happy there. Being unhappy at college is bad; being unhappy at such an unsupportive place as Harvard is worse.

Good luck!

mma
 
are you ****ting me?
if there's ONE school that has more grade inflation than Harvard, it's gotta be Stanford.
i'm not impressed by Stanford undergrads anymore.

and even with Harvard's grade inflation, people still like worship it or something. that name will get you places.

not to mention... EVERY single private school has grade inflation, to some degree.

•••quote:•••Originally posted by bomback:
•Just to point out, there are a quite a number of schools which are more difficult to get A's in than Harvard, and they are actually noted by med schools. From the people in admissions offices that i've talked to people from schools like UCLA and Stanford who pull off 4.0 are more noteworthy than people from Harvard who have 4.0.•••••
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Doctor Foxy:
•It's only better to go to an ivy if you can do REALLY well there....i.e., a 3.5 at Harvard is still a 3.5, and some med schools don't realize how much harder you worked to get that 3.5 than a student from a lower-tier college might have. •••••Not to step on anyone's toes, but I think that this is an ignorant remark. I worked just as hard at my "lower-tiered" college than some friends of mine who went to Harvard. This is a bull**** statement. I know that this was a generalization, but I think that most four year universities are created equal, some just may provide more opportunities for their student body. People need to get over the fact that they went to an Ivy or a "top tier" school. You are no better than the rest of us. I don't mean to piss anyone off who went to an elite undergrad (I give you props for throwing down hella dough for that diploma) but **** like this pisses me off.
😛
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by toobsllik:
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by Doctor Foxy:
•My cousin went to Harvard undergard and didn't get in to their med school. I think he had a 4.0 gpa, and very outstanding and unusual •••••That, my friend, is extremely unlikely. If I remember correctly there hasn't been a Harvard undergrad with a 4.0 since 1982. Can anyone offer insight here?•••••A friend of mine, Political Science major, graduated last year with a 4.0
 
I'm sorry I pissed you off UCSfreak. I know for a fact that I worked my a$$ off at my undergrad (I'm not sure what tier it's in) and I know that it is more difficult than SOME lower tier schools. In fact the only lower tier school that I can honestly use to make this statement would be FAU in FL because I have friends that go there. I'm sorry to have made a generalization, although I thought I covered my a$$ with words like "might" and "I think"......I'll watch what I say in the future, but it was just my opinion.

My school is very tough with grades and I don't feel med schools care that much or realize that fact when comparing my application to an ivy one.
 
sheesh if only this post would fade away.
its funny just how much attention the name "Harvard" generates.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by UCSFreak:
•Not to step on anyone's toes, but I think that this is an ignorant remark. I worked just as hard at my "lower-tiered" college than some friends of mine who went to Harvard. This is a bull**** statement. I know that this was a generalization, but I think that most four year universities are created equal, some just may provide more opportunities for their student body. People need to get over the fact that they went to an Ivy or a "top tier" school. You are no better than the rest of us. I don't mean to piss anyone off who went to an elite undergrad (I give you props for throwing down hella dough for that diploma) but **** like this pisses me off.
😛 •••••Sorry but most 4 year Universities are NOT created equal. This is not meant to degrade anyone's education or any particular school but Ivy/top-tier educations are, in general, better. Why? Better faculty, better resources, better students and a curriculum that is more challenging. Sure there is going to be some overlap with "lower-tiered" schools but, in general, the academic environment is better at ivy/top-tier schools. I've personally seen both sides of the spectrum. I went to a "top-tier" school but I've also taken classes during the summer at my state college. I assure you that the education I got at my "top-tier" school was EXPONENTIALLY better than at the state school. It's kinda funny how a lot of people like to claim "top-tier" schools aren't any better yet they didn't go to a top-tier school and therefore they can't possibly know whether or not the educational experience was "better". Also, I don't think I'm "better" than anyone. I certainly know that plenty of very smart people go to schools that aren't "top-tier" -- but I'm not talking about any specific people. I'm talking about the school and its academics as a whole.
 
There is no political science major at Harvard.

mma
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by mma:
•There is no political science major at Harvard.

mma•••••yeah but there is a Government major @ Harvard. There are some slight differences between Government and Political Science but for the most part they are the same.
 
i gotta disagree with you on this one foxy (and agree with brandonite.

i personally would not be very impressed with a 3.5 at harvard. do you know that 8 out of every 10 harvard student graduates with honors? and that 50% of them get a's in each class??

GRADE INFLATION at its best. i don't mean to single out harvard here. stanford is an every worse offender in this category. i'd take a 3.5 from say... u.texas anyday over a 3.5 from harvard

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Doctor Foxy:
•My cousin went to Harvard undergard and didn't get in to their med school. I think he had a 4.0 gpa, and very outstanding and unusual ECs. But he's not complaining at Columbia Med.......

It's only better to go to an ivy if you can do REALLY well there....i.e., a 3.5 at Harvard is still a 3.5, and some med schools don't realize how much harder you worked to get that 3.5 than a student from a lower-tier college might have. They don't think that a 3.5 at Harvard is better than a 4.0 at no-name school....although some might!

It's better to just do your best at any undergrad and wow them with something unusual like cool ECs.•••••
 
whoops -- didnt read pages 2 and 3. this topic has been beaten to death (i.e. did not need my additional input)
 
hey people I've said this before. Harvard is good. No, Harvard is damn good. But hold up now, lets not get too excited. Harvard is great for making connections and making random people think (or in some cases, know) you're smart. It's just like any other school. It gives no academic (knowledge) edge to the already motivated student.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by matthew0126:
•i gotta disagree with you on this one foxy (and agree with brandonite.

I personally would not be very impressed with a 3.5 at harvard. do you know that 8 out of every 10 harvard student graduates with honors? and that 50% of them get a's in each class??

GRADE INFLATION at its best. i don't mean to single out harvard here. stanford is an every worse offender in this category. i'd take a 3.5 from say... u.texas anyday over a 3.5 from harvard

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Doctor Foxy:
•My cousin went to Harvard undergard and didn't get in to their med school. I think he had a 4.0 gpa, and very outstanding and unusual ECs. But he's not complaining at Columbia Med.......

It's only better to go to an ivy if you can do REALLY well there....i.e., a 3.5 at Harvard is still a 3.5, and some med schools don't realize how much harder you worked to get that 3.5 than a student from a lower-tier college might have. They don't think that a 3.5 at Harvard is better than a 4.0 at no-name school....although some might!

It's better to just do your best at any undergrad and wow them with something unusual like cool ECs.••••••••••I'm confused with what you disagree with in my post, because I just read Brandonite's post and completely agree with it too. So maybe I should clarify. I was just using Harvard as an example, and I forgot that they have grade inflation when I wrote my post. My point in this matter is that top-tier schools (I don't know how else to say it), and especially ivy schools, in my opinion, are tougher and more challenging than other schools....not ALL other schools, but many. I wish I went to my second tier state school instead of my top 50 undergrad because I don't feel that my hard work is getting me anywhere, and I do feel that I had more material to cover in my school than at a lower-tier school.

I am in no way saying that students at lower tier schools are less intelligent and they may work just as hard to get the grade, but I feel that at my school we have more challenges and it is therefore harder to get top grades. I don't feel that med schools understand this or care much about it, and I wish I didn't have to go through such torture to get good grades when I could have had an easier time elsewhere.

Of course I have never attended another school, so I don't actually know how difficult other schools are in comparison. What I do know is that we had a visiting professor for orgo in the summer and I found it much easier than a normal Brandeis class, because the professor did not expect much from us. I had another visiting professor last semester from FSU and he was a very easy grader and expected very little from us. Brandeis professors expect much more in my experience. Please don't attack me for this post, it is just my opinion based on what I have experienced and I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

p.s. I also think that Harvard students may get good grades because many of them are brilliant and probably did earn them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Butalbusaur
How Common Is It To Get Ghosted By Schools?
Replies
5
Views
913
Butalbusaur
Butalbusaur
L
  • Locked
What does it take to get into Stanford BRUH
Replies
3
Views
2K
chilly_md
chilly_md
D
Possible to get into t20 mdphd without pubs?
Replies
10
Views
2K
Med Ed
Med Ed
L
How is my application looking so far?
Replies
5
Views
1K
FairEver
F
S
Can LPR gratuated abroad get into medschool?
Replies
14
Views
925
AJS59
AJS59
Top