SOAP 2016 Thread - questions, advice, support

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residencyfindme said:
Does anyone know what time we can begin contacting programs? Is it right at 5 pm when the final soap round ends, or does it start at 6 pm EDT? Thank you
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I don't know the answer for that question as well.
 
residencyfindme said:
Does anyone know what time we can begin contacting programs? Is it right at 5 pm when the final soap round ends, or does it start at 6 pm EDT? Thank you
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SOAP ends at 5pm, so it's not a violation to call immediately. NRMP said they would send out the final updated list of open positions at 6pm, so efforts at 5pm might be wasted, but you don't have a lot to lose. All times are ET, so Central and West time zones will still be in their regular business hours.
 
Is there any way to know how many non-SOAP unfilled spots there were last year that may come up in the next 2 hours?
 
mcl said:
SOAP ends at 5pm, so it's not a violation to call immediately. NRMP said they would send out the final updated list of open positions at 6pm, so efforts at 5pm might be wasted, but you don't have a lot to lose. All times are ET, so Central and West time zones will still be in their regular business hours.
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Awesome-thank you!
 
For the scramble, do we reapply to positions we already applied to that may be open?
 
PAGuyana said:
For the scramble, do we reapply to positions we already applied to that may be open?
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My understanding (although, please correct me if I'm wrong) is that any program with an unfilled spot is up for grabs, regardless of previous application status. Best of luck to you!
 
Just sent from NRMP to the SOAP list-serve:
At 6:00 p.m. ET, the updated List of Unfilled Programs will be posted to the R3 system, and it will include any positions that remain in SOAP-participating programs, as well as the unfilled positions in programs that did not participate in SOAP...
Program directors can update this list as positions are filled. Alternatively, programs not intending to fill the positions can delete them from the list.
 
PAGuyana said:
For the scramble, do we reapply to positions we already applied to that may be open?
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Wait a minute, is there a scramble run too, or we have to contact the Programs ?
 
For the scramble, do we email the programs our application directly or do we apply through ERAS? and does it cost to apply ? Thanks
 
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Has anyone seen the list being generated with non-soap unfilled programs?
 
How to apply to unfilled programs? Through ERAS or contacting the programs directly?
If applying directly to program how to get my LORs if I waived my right to see them?
 
doc0823 said:
How to apply to unfilled programs? Through ERAS or contacting the programs directly?
If applying directly to program how to get my LORs if I waived my right to see them?
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Contact your registrar's/academic office, and they'll email your MSPE and rec letters.
 
Just tried calling a program in NY and the operator picked up and said call back tomorrow at 8 am...doubt anyone on the east coast will pick up today
 
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EaglesAllDay said:
Just tried calling a program in NY and the operator picked up and said call back tomorrow at 8 am...doubt anyone on the east coast will pick up today
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Same thing. I still called, left voicemails where I could, and sent emails. I also provided my deans office with the emails/phone numbers of programs with open positions. You can do this!!
 
randomcollusion said:
Contact your registrar's/academic office, and they'll email your MSPE and rec letters.
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They can provide the MSPE and transcript, but now the LoR writers upload their own. As a coordinator, I'd be willing to forward documents for someone who applied to my program who is still trying to find a spot. If on the interview trail you felt like you had any rapport with a PC, try calling to see if they can help. Keep in mind that they will be incredibly and insanely busy tomorrow, so ask nicely. But we can access ERAS again now, and it only takes a few moments to download those documents, and we are (by and large) empathetic beings by nature.
 
Felt like delving into the numbers. Found a thread on Reddit. Contrast these two posts and you will find the truth, I think.

This is not true at all, and I hear this a lot from my medical students.

In the ACGME match, there are 27,293 spots

There were 18,025 MD domestic graduates

There were 5,263 DO doemstic graduates

There are 3,118 DO-only spots

If you do the math you'll see the sky is not falling, and in fact we can absorb more new domestic medical students. You might not be able to match into that competitive specialty you wanted, but that's the way it goes. You need to apply to programs wisely, and that is something that medical students should be briefed on

sources: page 17 page 6​

...and this...

What frustrates me about this topic is that IMGs and re-applicants are often ignored in the statistics. According to 2015 NRMP match data:

27,293 total spots

41,334 total applicants (34,905 after withdrawls)

18,025 US MD MS4s (16,932 Matched, 1,093 did not)

1,520 Prior US MD Grads (662M, 858UM)

2,949 DO Grads/Students (2,339/610)

5,014 US Citizen Foreign Program (2,660/2354)

7,366 Non-US Citizen Foreign Program (2,641/3,725)

What that leaves us with is 8,653 unmatched students, 2,561 of which are American MD/DO students graduating from American medical schools. While it is clear that we have a doctor shortage and need to increase the number of training slots, it is also difficult for me to understand how we can let thousands of US citizens, US trained doctors go unmatched annually when 6,386 graduates of foreign medical schools are matched here.

I am by no means xenophobic but our medical education system is funded by the American tax payer with the express intent of educating physicians to treat the American patient population. I believe that qualified American physicians should be matched before placing outside trainees.​

Clearly one of these is the more complete picture of what is going on.
 
Edit 1: Urgh. I originally put up a long angry rant, but realized this thread is not the place to do it as I don't want to accidentally rub salt in the wounds of those who have gone unmatched.

I'll just say this: I believe anyone qualified to practice in the US should be able to, and every IMG MD I have ever met has been the equal or superior of any AMG MD I can think of. The sort of xenophobic, blame-it-on-the-furriners-U-S-A!-U-S-A! thinking espoused by source #2 above is the sort of thinking that fuels Trump.

I do, however, have a problem with for-profit medical schools that accept desperate candidates, take their money, and then leave them stranded 4 years later.

Edit 2: LOL, okay, someone managed to quote me before I edited away the original rant. Welp, for transparency's sake I'll include it here below, as I have nothing to hide; I just thought it'd be kinder to those recently unmatched not to have me shout angrily all over their thread about a largely moot point. Anyway, original rant is below, partially hidden in a quote-box to try to spare some feelings.

elementals said:
Okay, source #2 is the sort of thinking that fuels Trump. Rant incoming.

Speaking as a US citizen US grad who didn't match ophtho the first time around -- i.e. someone who may have benefited most from a little match xenophobia -- I am thoroughly and ferociously opposed to the idea of limiting the match to US citizens only. I have no issues at all with non-citizen IMGs managing to claw their way in. It's insanely hard for them to get in, and the bar is set so much higher than it is for us. The ones that make it are without a doubt the cream of the crop; the intellectual and medical equal (or superior) of ANY American medical student.

While I have of course met the infamous bedside-manner-impaired IMG resident, the vast majority of them improve within a couple months. It's not that fking hard to act polite. And every single IMG I can think of has been a wonderful, driven, incredibly hardworking person who honestly deserves every little shred of success they've been able to eke out in a system that's strongly stacked against them. Compared to that, I don't see any reason why our precious little US citizen US grads -- some of which you have to admit are entitled arrogant little ****s who are worse than an IMG on their worst day -- should be so coddled if they just don't stack up. Competition drives progress.

The cherry on top is that source #2 invalidates his/her own argument: "I am by no means xenophobic but our medical education system is funded by the American tax payer with the express intent of educating physicians to treat the American patient population. I believe that qualified American physicians should be matched before placing outside trainees."

That's correct. Educating physicians to treat the American patient population. And guess what? That's exactly what IMGs do, and they do it damn well. If a PD feels they'll do it better than some poorly qualified AMG who ultimately doesn't match, then so be it.

If source #2 really wants to bemoan something, he/she can bitch about the fact that 1) for-profit DO schools that accept students with grades entirely too low for MD schools only to try to cram 60%+ of them back into the MD pipeline four years later, or even better, 2) for-profit Caribbean schools that are basically ripping off desperate and/or severely underqualified people and, as this thread clearly attests, ruining lives in the name of greed.
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elementals said:
Okay, source #2 is the sort of thinking that fuels Trump. Rant incoming.

Speaking as a US citizen US grad who didn't match ophtho the first time around -- i.e. someone who may have benefited most from a little match xenophobia -- I am thoroughly and ferociously opposed to the idea of limiting the match to US citizens only. I have no issues at all with non-citizen IMGs managing to claw their way in. It's insanely hard for them to get in, and the bar is set so much higher than it is for us. The ones that make it are without a doubt the cream of the crop; the intellectual and medical equal (or superior) of ANY American medical student.

While I have of course met the infamous bedside-manner-impaired IMG resident, the vast majority of them improve within a couple months. It's not that fking hard to act polite. And every single IMG I can think of has been a wonderful, driven, incredibly hardworking person who honestly deserves every little shred of success they've been able to eke out in a system that's strongly stacked against them. Compared to that, I don't see any reason why our precious little US citizen US grads -- some of which you have to admit are entitled arrogant little ****s who are worse than an IMG on their worst day -- should be so coddled if they just don't stack up. Competition drives progress.

The cherry on top is that source #2 invalidates his/her own argument: "I am by no means xenophobic but our medical education system is funded by the American tax payer with the express intent of educating physicians to treat the American patient population. I believe that qualified American physicians should be matched before placing outside trainees."

That's correct. Educating physicians to treat the American patient population. And guess what? That's exactly what IMGs do, and they do it damn well. If a PD feels they'll do it better than some poorly qualified AMG who ultimately doesn't match, then so be it.

If source #2 really wants to bemoan something, he/she can bitch about the fact that 1) for-profit DO schools that accept students with grades entirely too low for MD schools only to try to cram 60%+ of them back into the MD pipeline four years later, or even better, 2) for-profit Caribbean schools that are basically ripping off desperate and/or severely underqualified people and, as this thread clearly attests, ruining lives in the name of greed.
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Amen


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
@mcl is there anything one should "not" do during this time with respect to contacting the program coordinators? I know they are busy, how do we teach out to them in a manner indicative of our sense of urgency without coming across as demanding/impatient?
 
Hello everyone. I though I share an opportunity. I know that IMGs have a very rough time matching at times and I wanted to share NYCOM program
http://www.nyit.edu/degrees/osteopathic_medicine_do_emigre

It's basically a 4 year program for IMG design to grant a DO. I know it's rough since it's basically repeating Med school. However it will make it much easier to match once your done not to mention you will have access to the AOA spots. Given than some people have been trying for about three years (as I have read) I though I share the opportunity.

AOA spots will be available to MDs as 2020 approaches but having a DO will definitely still make it easier to land these spots as wel as you might still be able to participate in the earlier DO match if it's still around.

The best to everyone!!!!
 
plasmacartwheel said:
Felt like delving into the numbers. Found a thread on Reddit. Contrast these two posts and you will find the truth, I think.
Click to expand...

All of these numbers we're looking at are 2015 numbers. Just so people in the future aren't confused, because tomorrow we'll get the data tables for 2016 from the NRMP.

The two posts are saying the exact same thing, although looking at it in two different directions.

The first post:
There are 27K ACGME positions + 3K AOA positions = 30K positions total.
There are 18K AMGs + 5K DO's = 23K US Grads
Therefore, there are 7K extra spots, so plenty of room.
This math ignores the 1.5K Previous grads. But even if you still include them, plenty of room.

The second post:
There are 27K ACGME positions. They ignore the 3K AOA positions.
There are 18K AMG's + 3K DO's in the ACGME match. They ignore the 2K DO's that participate in the AOA match.
The two oversights above just about cancel out each other.
Therefore, in the ACGME match alone, there are 27K spots - 21K applicants = 6K spots left.

But, then there are 5K US IMG's and 7K FMG's. So if you want to give spots to all the US IMG's, then you can't let the FMG's have much of anything.

The scary number in the second post is that 2561 US grads get no spots. That number is the US seniors (1093) + DO's (610) + US prior grads (858) who don't match. This is misleading. All of these numbers are pre-SOAP. Of those 1000 US grads, about 600 get a spot in SOAP. The DO's often get an AOA spot that has remained unfilled. I don't know about the prior grads -- some may need a spot (i.e. only completed a PGY-1 and need further training), and some may just want a spot (already training in something, trying to get a spot in something else). In any case, many of these students get a spot, not measured in these match data.

To be fair, all of this is based upon PGY-1 slots available. Some of those PGY-1 slots are prelim only. To be completely kosher about it, we should subtract out the sum of Advanced and Reserved spots minus the number of prelim only spots, to get the number of "terminal residency" spots. In 2015, there were about 3K A + R spots combined, and about 4K IM prelim, GS prelim, and TY's combined. So, there really were about 26K "true" training spots available in the NRMP, and 29K in all matches combined.

This also ignores the SF match, although the number of spots there is very small and won't make much of a difference.
 
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So I guess there's unfilled advanced positions? If I got a surgery prelim in the soap...could I just contact these unfilled advanced positions and try to get a spot for after my prelim? Or do the unfilled advance programs mean you start as a PGY2 this coming july?
 
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I'm matched but got this email tonight, its an osteopathic program. Hopefully it will be a help to someone.

P.S. I really admire the strength of you guys and my friends who are scrambling. Hang in there, you will get where you want to go.



[email protected]
I am writing to inform you of 2 family medicine and 3 internal
medicine slots still available in oklahoma.

We are located in Mcalester, Oklahoma. We have a heavy emphasis on
procedures and surgical first assist. My goal as DME and PD for
Family Medicine is to graduate residents comfortable in clinic,
hospital, and ER work.

Mcalester is a town of 18,000 with a hospital that serves well over
100,000. Our ER sees 25,00 pt per year an our average census per team
is 15-22. There are no required out rotations but there are plenty of
opportunities to visit other places.

There is much more to discuss. If you would like more information
feel free to return my email and I will call you.
We are currently in the post allopathic interview process.

Jason McElyea, DO
[email protected]
Director of Medical Education
Program Director Family Medicine Residency
McAlester Regional Health Center
 
residencyfindme said:
@mcl is there anything one should "not" do during this time with respect to contacting the program coordinators? I know they are busy, how do we teach out to them in a manner indicative of our sense of urgency without coming across as demanding/impatient?
Click to expand...

Pick a coordinator that seemed friendly, approachable, and sympathetic (if you are still a student, this would most likely be your home program). Call. This is the kind of favor best asked for person-to-person rather than in an email. Explain the situation, especially related to Letters of Recommendation (neither you nor your Dean's office have access, it's really time sensitive, trying to contact all your letter writers to have them send letters directly to programs with spots available isn't practical). IMG/FMG applicants can expand on the need for letters, transcript, and the MSPE. If the coordinator agrees, have your instructions available to send by email immediately.

The absolute best would be for the coordinator to send the documents to one of your mentors who would work with you to send the information to programs in whatever format they request. The coordinator is NOT going to want to be your proxy, sending your documents to lots of programs and then getting caught in a loop of relaying messages to you when programs hit the "reply" button to respond rather than searching the body of the email for the applicant's contact email.

Basically, it's the same strategy we used to employ for the Scramble.
 
mcl said:
Pick a coordinator that seemed friendly, approachable, and sympathetic (if you are still a student, this would most likely be your home program). Call. This is the kind of favor best asked for person-to-person rather than in an email. Explain the situation, especially related to Letters of Recommendation (neither you nor your Dean's office have access, it's really time sensitive, trying to contact all your letter writers to have them send letters directly to programs with spots available isn't practical). IMG/FMG applicants can expand on the need for letters, transcript, and the MSPE. If the coordinator agrees, have your instructions available to send by email immediately.

The absolute best would be for the coordinator to send the documents to one of your mentors who would work with you to send the information to programs in whatever format they request. The coordinator is NOT going to want to be your proxy, sending your documents to lots of programs and then getting caught in a loop of relaying messages to you when programs hit the "reply" button to respond rather than searching the body of the email for the applicant's contact email.

Basically, it's the same strategy we used to employ for the Scramble.
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Awesome-thank you!! I sent emails to all the open prelim IM positions last night. No one seems to be answering the phone this morning. Has anyone else been able to get through? Is this typical for scramble? Any thoughts on when someone will respond?
 
this program asked for my "full eras app" to be sent to an email. is that possible to do thru ERAS?
 
residencyfindme said:
Is there any way to know how many non-SOAP unfilled spots there were last year that may come up in the next 2 hours?
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I didn't participate in the main match last year but I did participate in the post soap AKA scramble. I used resident swap which shows you the available spots left in the country after the scramble. I was trying to scramble into Family Medicine and it was very difficult less than 5 spots. Never got any responses just gave up and went for this year's match
 
I emailed, contacted by phone, and sent in apps through ERAS. A program picked up and said to basically just hang on while they review apps and will call if interested.
 
My two cents...
Beggars can't be choosy, but desperation does not usually lead to good decisions.

What do I mean by that? I guess an analogy can be 'buying a home' and ending up with buyers remorse. This is a big decision and unless you TRULY do not care where or what position, I caution you from accepting anything, otherwise you may end up with 'buyers remorse'.

Even this thread, during SOAP this past week, it appears that some accepted a position haphazardly and then almost immediately wanted out of the deal. :/ Now, I do understand for IMG's it probably does not matter where or what as much as they have to move regardless, but for those that have a family and/or a home, please consider your options carefully. Why? Many forget that there will always be another house, another car, and yes, even another residency position. I know the temptation is for NOW or NEVER, but that is just not true. You will not die if you do not get a position!

I know some on here have criticized Resident Swap (https://www.residentswap.org/how_it_works.php), but one of my best friends used it and it brought us together, and in fact, our Program Director mentioned it specifically. Another resource is FindAResident (https://services.aamc.org/findaresident/) which is actually linked to AAMC/ERAS. Yes, there is a fee/cost for both (though minimal to the ~$100 charged by ERAS for each application sent), but I do not believe that either is a scam.

For those that perhaps accepted a position prematurely and are now regretting it, do not fear. You and the PD can ask ERAS/NRMP for an exception out of the match; I was granted one years ago. You also can post the position on Resident Swap and find someone to trade.

The one thing that I wish I could get ERAS/FindAResident, NRMP, ResidentSwap to all change (or allow) is a way to search positions by LOCATION and not simply by specialty. FindAResident does allow this to a degree, but it is only by region and not by state. For me, its all about location, location, location.

Good luck to you all. I promise it is not the end of the world if you do not have a place to call home yet. Try to remember that things happen for a reason.
 
I am willing to take anything to go anywhere. ECFMG certified + Step3. Have not heard from programs yet. International IMG with US clinical experience.
I just woke up this morning with alot of anxiety and fear.
I hate fear.
I need to get off the phone and take a walk.
 
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stephenpeters2 said:
I am willing to take anything to go anywhere. ECFMG certified + Step3. Have not heard from programs yet. International IMG with US clinical experience.
I just woke up this morning with alot of anxiety and fear.
I hate fear.
I need to get off the phone and take a walk.
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If you don't mind my asking, was your STEP 3 score competitive? Wondering if it will help to have....? Thank u
 
matched in an advanced program in main match, but no pgy1. Can anyone give some advises what should i do? any other ways to secure a pgy1 after the match? Thanks a lot.
 
neuropsychi said:
matched in an advanced program in main match, but no pgy1. Can anyone give some advises what should i do? any other ways to secure a pgy1 after the match? Thanks a lot.
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This is the point when you call the PD at your advanced program and solicit help finding a PGY1 spot.
 
What mcl said x 10000. Sometimes they can create a spot for you at their main hospital. As I understand it every school has X number of ACGME spots every year, so if another program goes unfilled they can sometimes shift a spot over to a prelim-IM or prelim-surg program
 
Just in case There are any DOs still looking for a position


the AOA Post Match Page is not working. We have open positions and haven’t been able to update the page.



We have 8 slots for Traditional and 4 for family medicine. Please share with your students.



Thank you.



--

Pam Royston, PhD

Administrative Director, Graduate Medical Education

Designated Institutional Official

205 N. East Avenue, Jackson, MI 49201

AllegianceHealth.org

s
 
Hi are there any MD slots still available for Internal Med or Family med? I am US Citizen IMG ECFMG CERT


pipe83 said:
Just in case There are any DOs still looking for a position


the AOA Post Match Page is not working. We have open positions and haven’t been able to update the page.



We have 8 slots for Traditional and 4 for family medicine. Please share with your students.



Thank you.



--

Pam Royston, PhD

Administrative Director, Graduate Medical Education

Designated Institutional Official

205 N. East Avenue, Jackson, MI 49201

AllegianceHealth.org

s
Click to expand...
 
duromd said:
Hi are there any MD slots still available for Internal Med or Family med? I am US Citizen IMG ECFMG CERT
Click to expand...
Sorry I have no knowledge of open residency spots. Best of luck and keep trying!!
 
neuropsychi said:
matched in an advanced program in main match, but no pgy1. Can anyone give some advises what should i do? any other ways to secure a pgy1 after the match? Thanks a lot.
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hey the same thing happened to me this week. one of the most stressful weeks of my life. went through the soap still didn't get a prelim. Was worried all was lost and I would lose my Rads spot. I would contact your home institution to see if there are any prelim spots that can be created for you. contact the person in charge of GME and also like the post above you should contact the PD at your advanced spot to see if they can do anything to find you a place. good luck, i know its a crappy feeling to get your advanced spot only to be struggling to get a prelim. Keep your head up and stay positive but be your own advocate and talk to the right people who can help you.
 
goone2524 said:
hey the same thing happened to me this week. one of the most stressful weeks of my life. went through the soap still didn't get a prelim. Was worried all was lost and I would lose my Rads spot. I would contact your home institution to see if there are any prelim spots that can be created for you. contact the person in charge of GME and also like the post above you should contact the PD at your advanced spot to see if they can do anything to find you a place. good luck, i know its a crappy feeling to get your advanced spot only to be struggling to get a prelim. Keep your head up and stay positive but be your own advocate and talk to the right people who can help you.
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Thank you goone. it has been a stressful week. i hope it will work out for all of us who are struggling.
 
mcl said:
This is the point when you call the PD at your advanced program and solicit help finding a PGY1 spot.
Click to expand...
Thanks MCL. My PD at advanced program has been every helpful, but still no luck.
 
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