SOAP 2017 Thread

Find Your Perfect Residency Program Match
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Does anyone know any IMG friendly teaching hospitals that offer externships?
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I got an offer and accepted
 
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I'm an MS4 at a US med school (matched) and have a friend who didn't match and is now going through SOAP. She is a US citizen and I don't know what her step scores were or whatever but this was totally unexpected--she's a good student and was not applying into a competitive specialty. How can I help, if at all? She has refused offers of company, meals, ice cream, booze, prostitutes (we were only kidding about the prostitutes but if she said it would help I would have found her one). She's completely isolating herself and I'm starting to get really worried about her.

What complicates this is that she did not actually tell anybody in our little friend group that she didn't match (8 of us, we're all very close). When she didn't show up to class on Monday afternoon (and hasn't been seen since) we thought something must be up... and then her roommate (part of the friend group) quietly confirmed that she did not match (overheard phone calls, saw behaviour indicating extreme stress, etc).

I am totally willing to pretend that this isn't happening if that is what will make her feel most comfortable. However, we have been friends for a long time now and I know that she is not good at asking for help, and that while she thinks that self-isolation is the best way to avoid shame she might actually feel better if she let us in.

I dunno, do any of y'all have thoughts?
 
aProgDirector said:
I agree with the above. If you ranked them, didn't match, and they didn't fill (and you were not in the couple's match), then the only possibility is that they didn't rank you. So now your questions are 1) is there any value to reapplying, and 2) can I contact them afterwards for feedback.

Reapplying - this is a mixed bag. My sense is that if they didn't rank you the first time, they won't take you in SOAP. As mentioned, they decided they would rather SOAP than take you. If they have a large number of open spots, they might decide that a known quantity is better than someone unknown in SOAP. Maybe.

Contact afterwards -- you certainly can do this, but don't expect much useful information. This is an HR dictum -- if you don't hire someone, you usually don't tell them why -- mainly because of risk of lawsuits. If they tell you "the residents you met with didn't like you", you might reinterpret that to "They didn't like me because of my ethnicity, and thus they discriminated against me illegally". So, you're likely to be told that there "were more competitive candidates". That said, it can't really hurt to ask.
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Thank you for your response. In the event that the program still has spots even after the SOAP. What do you think would be my chances if I called them and tried again to figure out what I can do to get that spot?
 
Snagged my prelim surg spot, checking out of this clown fiesta. Congratulations to those that got a spot this round, and good luck to those less fortunate.
 
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freudchild said:
I'm an MS4 at a US med school (matched) and have a friend who didn't match and is now going through SOAP. She is a US citizen and I don't know what her step scores were or whatever but this was totally unexpected--she's a good student and was not applying into a competitive specialty. How can I help, if at all? She has refused offers of company, meals, ice cream, booze, prostitutes (we were only kidding about the prostitutes but if she said it would help I would have found her one). She's completely isolating herself and I'm starting to get really worried about her.

What complicates this is that she did not actually tell anybody in our little friend group that she didn't match (8 of us, we're all very close). When she didn't show up to class on Monday afternoon (and hasn't been seen since) we thought something must be up... and then her roommate (part of the friend group) quietly confirmed that she did not match (overheard phone calls, saw behaviour indicating extreme stress, etc).

I am totally willing to pretend that this isn't happening if that is what will make her feel most comfortable. However, we have been friends for a long time now and I know that she is not good at asking for help, and that while she thinks that self-isolation is the best way to avoid shame she might actually feel better if she let us in.

I dunno, do any of y'all have thoughts?
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The feeling of not matching is indescribable. It's embarrassing, humiliating and generally awful. You know everyone else in your friends is celebrating and you've cried all the tears you have. Several times if going through the soap. She's likely trying to just get through the soap right now and desperately trying to get a position. I didn't want to talk to anyone that had achieved their dreams when I hadn't or to my parents. I needed the time to grieve. In the end it worked out for me but it's really hard to hold it all together and likely she's trying to hold it together for programs she's applying to and can't for the rest of you all right now. Send her food if you want or cookies, but understand that she probably is trying to just get a soap position and pretend this never happened.
 
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maybe she didn't tell anybody because she was afraid you'd tell others.....like share it on the internet. Why not give her the courtesy to share her own story if and when she wants to?

Honestly, just be there. Say that you're here if you need me, stay by close -- and try to listen?
 
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freudchild said:
I'm an MS4 at a US med school (matched) and have a friend who didn't match and is now going through SOAP. She is a US citizen and I don't know what her step scores were or whatever but this was totally unexpected--she's a good student and was not applying into a competitive specialty. How can I help, if at all? She has refused offers of company, meals, ice cream, booze, prostitutes (we were only kidding about the prostitutes but if she said it would help I would have found her one). She's completely isolating herself and I'm starting to get really worried about her.

What complicates this is that she did not actually tell anybody in our little friend group that she didn't match (8 of us, we're all very close). When she didn't show up to class on Monday afternoon (and hasn't been seen since) we thought something must be up... and then her roommate (part of the friend group) quietly confirmed that she did not match (overheard phone calls, saw behaviour indicating extreme stress, etc).

I am totally willing to pretend that this isn't happening if that is what will make her feel most comfortable. However, we have been friends for a long time now and I know that she is not good at asking for help, and that while she thinks that self-isolation is the best way to avoid shame she might actually feel better if she let us in.

I dunno, do any of y'all have thoughts?
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I'm in a similar situation as your friend.

Please understand that we haven't had a proper chance to absorb the news and lick our wounds before we are expected to jump into a hectic system that can potentially redefine the life we had planned out for ourselves.

I would send her a text to let her know that your group of friends are there to support her when she wants to talk. Remind her that she's an amazing person and what happened is not a reflection of her personal achievements.
 
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"embarrassing, humiliating and generally awful"... can't be better said. These plus feeling lost and don't know what to do with my future and loan.
 
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congrats to you guys that got surgery prelim spots. i'd kill to have one of these spots. ;(
 
freudchild said:
I'm an MS4 at a US med school (matched) and have a friend who didn't match and is now going through SOAP. She is a US citizen and I don't know what her step scores were or whatever but this was totally unexpected--she's a good student and was not applying into a competitive specialty. How can I help, if at all? She has refused offers of company, meals, ice cream, booze, prostitutes (we were only kidding about the prostitutes but if she said it would help I would have found her one). She's completely isolating herself and I'm starting to get really worried about her.

What complicates this is that she did not actually tell anybody in our little friend group that she didn't match (8 of us, we're all very close). When she didn't show up to class on Monday afternoon (and hasn't been seen since) we thought something must be up... and then her roommate (part of the friend group) quietly confirmed that she did not match (overheard phone calls, saw behaviour indicating extreme stress, etc).

I am totally willing to pretend that this isn't happening if that is what will make her feel most comfortable. However, we have been friends for a long time now and I know that she is not good at asking for help, and that while she thinks that self-isolation is the best way to avoid shame she might actually feel better if she let us in.

I dunno, do any of y'all have thoughts?
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Give her space and when she is ready to talk about ,it she will. She's processing everything in a very short period of time.
 
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Asadreamsbig said:
Can someone explain how to apply to programs post-soap? How do I send my app? Do they need LOR? If so how do I get them to send them out?
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Post SOAP, the NRMP will publish an open slots list. The list is fixed, they will no longer update it. The list will contain contact information for each program.

Usually, applicants just contact programs directly -- either by phone, email, or fax. As you can imagine, it's a bit of a nightmare for programs, as they could get 100's of calls. So you'll find that many phones get disconnected, or a message is left that the spots are filled / will not be filled / etc. So, expect a very low pick up rate.

If a program is interested, they will want your info. You can either send it manually (i.e email/fax), or you can apply via ERAS. ERAS closes on May 31, so all of your information and documents remain there and can be sent to any program until then. Standard ERAS rates apply. I wouldn't just send applications via ERAS to programs with spots listed -- the chances that they go back into ERAS to look, without knowing your app is there, is low. Although perhaps some programs will instruct you to do just that (which is fine, if that's their process).

If you're sending your app manually, you may not have your LOR's. Your choices are to contact your LOR writers and have them send copies, or use ERAS to send an application to the program.
 
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One exam just flat lined my career completely. Unfortunate. :(
 
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starwarsfan123 said:
Hey, can you describe basically what this is, and what you can do with it. Im possibly considering applying.
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This is a new legislation, applicants only this january were able to apply for licensure, and I looked at jobs that hire assistant physicians, I couldn't find one. If there's job security with this licensed career option, I would grab it in a heartbeat
 
down to 11/45 spots . Just gonna keep prayin' for a miracle
 
Me too, down from 114 to 44 to 14 now.

Just remember that failure is an action, it is not an identity. Good luck
 
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Anyone know if they are going to call tonight? I mean if calls are only made Monday Tuesday and Wednesday there is no reason to sit and wait by phone right?
 
I feel like this as been a absolute waste of time. I'm still rotating and missed almost 3 days of work. I had to beg my attending to take off. Still no calls or emails on my end.
 
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Is it possible that a program do not offer its open positions to anyone?
 
Asadreamsbig said:
Anyone know if they are going to call tonight? I mean if calls are only made Monday Tuesday and Wednesday there is no reason to sit and wait by phone right?
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I'd expect calls overnight to be made. Just not between rounds where there's only 2 hours to re-sent offers; there's no time to re-interview at that point.
 
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Erinma2017 said:
I feel like this as been a absolute waste of time. I'm still rotating and missed almost 3 days of work. I had to beg my attending to take off. Still no calls or emails on my end.
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Your school administration should have excused you for the week if you didn't match.
 
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Erinma2017 said:
I feel like this as been a absolute waste of time. I'm still rotating and missed almost 3 days of work. I had to beg my attending to take off. Still no calls or emails on my end.
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That's pretty inexcusable. The M4s at my school had the study rooms reserved for them so they had privacy as well as attendings taking time out from their practice to help the SOAPers out through the entire process.
 
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Thought I'd share my experience in case it may help anyone still SOAPing. US DO student. Originally applied to Obstetrics & Gynecology. Above average grades, competitive board scores, multiple research experiences. I applied to IM, Peds, and IM/Peds during SOAP. Received interviews at 7 programs, most programs calling multiple times. Most were phone calls, one was face-time. Some calls were random, some were scheduled, some were scheduled and then they called hours after the scheduled time. I was basically on the phone constantly the last 2 days. I did receive an email in ERAS from one program saying they were reviewing my application, and would contact me later. I never heard anything all day from them, so I emailed them back my continued interest towards the end of the business day, and received an interview invite within several minutes of doing so. It seemed like first round calls were to see if they liked you, second round calls to sell you on them, then calls from current residents (if optional, I always said yes I'd like to talk to the resident), then third round calls to see where you stand and if you had any more thoughts or questions for them. If a program did not call me more than once, then I was not optimistic that I had a high chance there (I was correct about this). Programs also requested that I email them later in the day to follow-up. I luckily matched to my top choice program during the first round. I did not receive offers from all of the programs...what was clear is that the more a program communicates with you, and the more you update your interest in them, the better chance you have. So I encourage people to email or call the program directors, or the main person you were in contact with, and update them on your interest level again before the next round. It seems like the process of asking a girl out on a date...if programs are not 110% positive you will say yes (accept their offer), they may not ask. I am so grateful for this new opportunity, and I wish everyone else luck on SOAP tomorrow. Stay positive, I know it is hard.
 
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FrozenTundra said:
Thought I'd share my experience in case it may help anyone still SOAPing. US DO student. Originally applied to Obstetrics & Gynecology. Above average grades, competitive board scores, multiple research experiences. I applied to IM, Peds, and IM/Peds during SOAP. Received interviews at 7 programs, most programs calling multiple times. Most were phone calls, one was face-time. Some calls were random, some were scheduled, some were scheduled and then they called hours after the scheduled time. I was basically on the phone constantly the last 2 days. I did receive an email in ERAS from one program saying they were reviewing my application, and would contact me later. I never heard anything all day from them, so I emailed them back my continued interest towards the end of the business day, and received an interview invite within several minutes of doing so. It seemed like first round calls were to see if they liked you, second round calls to sell you on them, then calls from current residents (if optional, I always said yes I'd like to talk to the resident), then third round calls to see where you stand and if you had any more thoughts or questions for them. If a program did not call me more than once, then I was not optimistic that I had a high chance there (I was correct about this). Programs also requested that I email them later in the day to follow-up. I luckily matched to my top choice program during the first round. I did not receive offers from all of the programs...what was clear is that the more a program communicates with you, and the more you update your interest in them, the better chance you have. So I encourage people to email or call the program directors, or the main person you were in contact with, and update them on your interest level again before the next round. It seems like the process of asking a girl out on a date...if programs are not 110% positive you will say yes (accept their offer), they may not ask. I am so grateful for this new opportunity, and I wish everyone else luck on SOAP tomorrow. Stay positive, I know it is hard.
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54135309.jpg


Seems like you were already desirable based on the interest from so many programs.
 
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Non-US IMG still waiting on first phone call...
 
For those who have experienced the post-SOAP scramble, how long does it last before all positions get taken? It has been so agonizing I cannot go on like this for another week, let alone 2 days. If there is no hope for me, I want to know ASAP so I can move on with my life.
 
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Us allopathic here only got 1 call Monday and second follow up Tuesday. PD said he would love to have me. Did not get offer in first round and spot was filled. I am feeling pretty defeated. Has anyone received any new calls/emails from progarms today?
 
Would anyone hire a doctor without residency?

I need a career, and fast, to pay off this debt. I'll try again next year sure, but right now I need a good salary, not just some research salary.

Where do I look for work? Is any of this 4 years of education helpful for any kind of work or no?
 
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People who have received offers seem to have had multiple calls or at least a long call from the program. The last minute calls were usually because there had already been a series of calls and the program is just checking one last time before offer.

I suspect most programs have made all of their calls and are now continuing to communicate with their small remaining list.

I have received zero calls. I am just speculating but I think I my chances of a call or multiple calls & an offer tomorrow are very, very slim.

I went into eras thinking I was a great candidate. Now I know where I stand.
 
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Are any programs actually still going to go through more apps and going to call?
 
Smiths11 said:
Would anyone hire a doctor without residency?

I need a career, and fast, to pay off this debt. I'll try again next year sure, but right now I need a good salary, not just some research salary.

Where do I look for work? Is any of this 4 years of education helpful for any kind of work or no?
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Have you been talking to your Student Affairs Dean about your strategy?
 
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gutonc said:
Smiths11 said:
Problem is that residency is funded by Medicare funds, so they can't just increase the number of positions at will.

The real scam in all of this is the number of Med schools. Many people (including me) do not appreciate the bottleneck that is residency when first getting into medical school. In my case it's my family who always painted a rosy picture of Medicine without even saying a word about the negatives. I'm Asian and my father is a physician and that's just the way it is for many of us.
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Coming from a (n extended) family where I was the first one (unless you include in-laws and 2nd cousins) to even graduate from college, let alone get a graduate or professional degree, I still don't quite understand this philosophy (although I see it in friends and colleagues all the time).

The worst part is that the rosy picture is usually painted by the almost/retired docs who haven't even had to retake their specialty boards since they were grandfathered into whatever specialty they're a part of. Never mind the fact that they made fat bank selling their private practice to a local hospital/MSG and basically only continue to work because, eventually, playing 144 holes of golf a week gets boring.
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It's a sick "keeping up with the Jones" mentality that is rooted in pride. I'm a doctor, my friends are doctors, their kids are doctors, my son better damn well be a doctor. Why? So I can brag about my son to my friends when they brag about their kids. And within the community, this feeling self perpetuates because it is a form of social proof. A caste system really.

I grew up exposed to the "fact" that being a Doctor is the ultimate, greatest, be all end all, career. It took me until my 3rd year, talking to my counselor to realize that this is just a twisted opinion and nothing else. I had a wonderful career before (non-traditional), but the minute I hit some roadblocks there, I reverted to the "fact" that maybe I should have gone to Medical School as my parents insisted.

And now here I am. All alone on a cold winter night after a snowstorm with nothing to show for this greatest of all careers. I had a date with a beautiful gal whom I had to cancel on for this SOAP. Don't get me wrong, it is my fault and I take the blame for not having good enough scores. But that's the point, it's not at all dandy as the picture that was painted. I just never ever appreciated or thought about the risks. Because the rewards were infinitely greater supposedly.
 
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gyngyn said:
Have you been talking to your Student Affairs Dean about your strategy?
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I'll give them a call tomorrow. But generally they've been unhelpful, with everything.
 
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Smiths11 said:
Would anyone hire a doctor without residency?

I need a career, and fast, to pay off this debt. I'll try again next year sure, but right now I need a good salary, not just some research salary.

Where do I look for work? Is any of this 4 years of education helpful for any kind of work or no?
Click to expand...
someone posted this link here, check it out: http://pr.mo.gov/healingarts.asp
 
Hey guys, so a little late in posting because everything has just been happening so f'n fast since Monday 11 am.
Had 3 PDs call before any SOAP rounds began (2- Monday, 1- Tuesday).

1 offer in first round = ACCEPTED. Prelim Surg position.

So those other 2 programs would have me off their lists (while wasn't there in the first round, after first round people get eliminated from throughout a programs list because they accepted offer and are no longer available).

Had a PD call like 3 pm so 1 hour after Round 1 done, I was done and out of the game. Told him thank you very much for calling, but I had accepted an offer. So that would hopefully then open opportunities for others.

Clearly, grateful about having my next year solidified. Thinking about extending graduation AGAIN (took year out btw MS3/4 so graduating year later than original class), finding research position (easy but unfunded probs), then finding some funding from somewhere so I can pay bills...Thank you baby Jesus that is over.

Those of you still hanging around- one of the PDs who interviewed me offered to be transparent about the position they ranked US on the program ROL, and was told directly I would not be getting offer round 1, but they typically go through Round 2 and 3 to fill spots (3rd time is always done deal). Suggested I would likely be made offer round 2, but you just never know. This Match seems cray already, and unpredictable, so I don't take any chances with any of this, even though I would have likely been more interested in accepting that program if offered Round 1 instead. But accepted my Offer, and now that I have had time to actually breathe and stop and think a little, grateful I did. Excited for next step and reapplying next year with less Go for the Gold and follow my heart and DO SAFER ROUTE and MATCH. But we will see, the Match statistics are discouraging for reapplicants, especially as independent applicants vs. Med students. But Gotta be a Bone Doctor! ORTHO OR DIE.

Good luck everyone! :luck:
 
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Not for nothing, this makes me feel like all the nay sayers throughout my journey were right.

I can't let that be true. I won't let that be true. I say nay to the nay sayers, and chug along my IMG pride. In fact, I was told by a PD, I am too excited about anesthesia and that might be a bad thing. :/ still confused about that one!
 
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