Soaping and finding DRP's in med notes...

[PharmDonduty]

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Hey guys, 🙂 I posted earlier, but I don't see it, so hopefully this one goes through.

It's our first Therapeutics class and would like to know where I can find the most commonly used meds and their DTP's for them such as adverse effects, drug-drug interactions, indications for the meds. I have some of my notes from pcol, but would like something that is already narrowed down by class of meds... any suggestions?

Also, are there any good practice books for SOAPing and for reading medical notes/charts, I'm having trouble distinguishing DTP's when reading medical charts. 😳

Thanks guys, anything helps!

 

[psychoandy]

The hell are DTPs?

Anyways, for reading medical records/charts, http://medicine.ucsd.edu/clinicalmed/

The most pertinent parts for you would be abbreviations and inpatient medicine and maybe write-ups; you can however check out the physical exam stuff so it'll make a little more sense when you read through the patient's chart/MR.

 

[Jeddevil]

The hell are DTPs?

I agree, what the hell are you talking about?

 

[PharmDonduty]

Thanks psychoandy for the suggestion. I linked to it and it's very informative.

DTP's, drug therapy problems (such as drug-drug interactions, inappropriate dosing) and identifying them given a patient's chart/record. Or some schools call them DRP's-drug reaction problems.

I'm just curious, does everyone here use language such as 'what the hell'? Why not just ask "What is dtp" or "what is that"?

I don't know, I'm beginning to think this forum of pharmacy students isn't 'professional' as described. I understand that we are all students here in a professional program, but using foul words such as 'hell' (to me is like any other foul word) is immature and offensive when replying to anyone who could be your future colleague. If it's in one's nature to use that kind of language, it should be directed to peers instead.

 

[pancreas]

I'm just curious, does everyone here use language such as 'what the hell'? Why not just ask "What is dtp" or "what is that"?

I don't know, I'm beginning to think this forum of pharmacy students isn't 'professional' as described. I understand that we are all students here in a professional program, but using foul words such as 'hell' (to me is like any other foul word) is immature and offensive when replying to anyone who could be your future colleague. If it's in one's nature to use that kind of language, it should be directed to peers instead.

FYI--your "peers" are on this site, so sometimes your "peers" use "language" like what the hell.

You'll hear a lot worse than "hell" when you go on rotations. The attending neuro MD on my rotation drops the f-bomb like there's no tomorrow.

 

[PharmDonduty]

Pancreas,
It all depends on your upbringing and only an example of how respect doesn't exist in the American culture anymore. I can only imagine words that flare when you guys are irate or pressured like in retail pharmacy or problems in your personal life. I highly doubt people would respond similarly if our real photos were shown with the threads. Your examples sounds like reasons of someone in junior high school "the md drops bombs like there's no tomorrow". Are you serious? What's the point in your example?

Sounds like you should grow up a bit and be able to think for yourself. There's more to life than trying justifying what others say or do, but you'll get there one day once you decide to mature and are no longer drinking out the bottle.

I'll just have to accept that some 'professional' students here casually abuse inappropriate language.

 

[eelo]

Pancreas,
It all depends on your upbringing and only an example of how respect doesn't exist in the American culture anymore. I can only imagine words that flare when you guys are irate or pressured like in retail pharmacy or problems in your personal life. I highly doubt people would respond similarly if our real photos were shown with the threads. Your examples sounds like reasons of someone in junior high school "the md drops bombs like there's no tomorrow". Are you serious? What's the point in your example?

Sounds like you should grow up a bit and be able to think for yourself. There's more to life than trying justifying what others say or do, but you'll get there one day once you decide to mature and are no longer drinking out the bottle.

I'll just have to accept that some 'professional' students here casually abuse inappropriate language.

Oh, get over it and spare me the self-righteous claptrap.

True professionals don't get in a snit when somebody uses a bad word. If you don't like it, don't talk like that; that's your call. If it's your pharmacy, oryou're the manager, you can set your own workplace rules and policies. But it's a big, bad world out there, and some people do talk like that..... and surprisingly enough, some of them will run circles around your so-called "professionalism."

A true "professional" wouldn't have made a big deal about this. So get over yourself, get off your self-appointed Morality Police pedestal, and see if you can find a legitimate question to ask.

 

[MR. C]

wow.. you really think "what the hell" is that inappropriate? who decides what is appropriate...

I think your skin is a little thin.

 

[pancreas]

Pancreas,
It all depends on your upbringing and only an example of how respect doesn't exist in the American culture anymore. I can only imagine words that flare when you guys are irate or pressured like in retail pharmacy or problems in your personal life. I highly doubt people would respond similarly if our real photos were shown with the threads. Your examples sounds like reasons of someone in junior high school "the md drops bombs like there's no tomorrow". Are you serious? What's the point in your example?

Sounds like you should grow up a bit and be able to think for yourself. There's more to life than trying justifying what others say or do, but you'll get there one day once you decide to mature and are no longer drinking out the bottle.

I'll just have to accept that some 'professional' students here casually abuse inappropriate language.

I should grow up? Maybe you should re-read your own post. I especially enjoyed the parts of your post that I bolded.

Not that I needed a point, but the reason I brought up what I've witnessed on rotations (my example of an MD dropping f-bombs ) is because I wanted to let you know that if you're in a tizzy over internet posters on SDN saying, "what the hell" just wait until you get out in the "real" world.

Good luck in pharmacy school. I hope all of your classmates, preceptors and future coworkers don't say any bad words. That would be very, very wrong, and very, very bad.

 

[Jeddevil]

I'll just have to accept that some 'professional' students here casually abuse inappropriate language.

You are going to have a very hard time getting along with anyone if "what the hell" bothers you. You acting like 'professionals' don't swear just shows that you have never been in 'professional' environments. Good luck with your self-righteous attitude. If I ever find a community pharmacy or hospital with 'professionals' in it that don't swear, I will let you know where it is.

 

[tussionex]

ah, the ever-present debate over what is or isn't professional

it really is a matter of personal preference...i have, at times, a rather foul-mouth [it's always warranted, i swear😀 ] but work in an environment where, while it isn't encouraged to speak like one is working on a wharf, it is understood the pharmacy can be intense and high pressure and we all need to let off steam. i'd rather myself or anyone else i work with curse for a minute than bottle up frustration, remain distracted and make an error. this is, or course, in the confines of the pharmacy...NOT in front of other house staff or patients!

if certain language bothers you, don't use it...but don't take one instance in an informal internet forum to pan the professionalism of all of pharmacy and the american culture. that's painting with a very, very broad brush.

and, if you are at the beginning of your career, i'd suggest getting used to it...medicine is filled with gallows humor, from all manner of staff...it may not always be what is appropriate, but it is a well-known coping mechanism among healthcare workers.

and yes, i would post the same way were my identity shown!👍

 

[Farmercyst]

Pancreas,
It all depends on your upbringing and only an example of how respect doesn't exist in the American culture anymore. I can only imagine words that flare when you guys are irate or pressured like in retail pharmacy or problems in your personal life. I highly doubt people would respond similarly if our real photos were shown with the threads. Your examples sounds like reasons of someone in junior high school "the md drops bombs like there's no tomorrow". Are you serious? What's the point in your example?

Sounds like you should grow up a bit and be able to think for yourself. There's more to life than trying justifying what others say or do, but you'll get there one day once you decide to mature and are no longer drinking out the bottle.

I'll just have to accept that some 'professional' students here casually abuse inappropriate language.

While I don't necessarily care for the coarse language either, I certainly don't presume to tell others how they should and should not behave. I'm surprised you've made it this far thinking that "professional" meant devoid of all worldliness. If the professional world were that sterile there wouldn't be any smoking, drinking, etc. I'd say it's better to focus on what you want to get out of the forums, and not so much on the extraneous information you find about the posters providing the information. Good information does not always come from the most pristine individuals, and it's important not to reduce the value of the information received based on perceived flaws in the source of that information.

 

[sdn1977]

Thanks psychoandy for the suggestion. I linked to it and it's very informative.

DTP's, drug therapy problems (such as drug-drug interactions, inappropriate dosing) and identifying them given a patient's chart/record. Or some schools call them DRP's-drug reaction problems.

I'm just curious, does everyone here use language such as 'what the hell'? Why not just ask "What is dtp" or "what is that"?

I don't know, I'm beginning to think this forum of pharmacy students isn't 'professional' as described. I understand that we are all students here in a professional program, but using foul words such as 'hell' (to me is like any other foul word) is immature and offensive when replying to anyone who could be your future colleague. If it's in one's nature to use that kind of language, it should be directed to peers instead.

Look PharmDon.....I'm a pharmacist & have been for a long, long time. First, as others have mentioned - you must get over your rightous indignation of how others speak or behave, publicly. You can be as indignant as you want privately - but save the judgement for your SO at home.

When you've seen the ER staff spending 45 minutes trying unsucessfully to rescusitate a 4yo drowning or car accident victim & they say **** many, many times - or when the CV surgeon has a pt who is going downhill faster than he can get him back to the or & he just opens up the staples & massages the heart while the gurney is moving - believe me - you'll hear no end of expletives & some of them will be directed at you, the nurses, GOD & anyone else who is in the way of this guy trying to save life.

So - when you are THAT good - then you can dictate how others speak or act - until then, just deal with it as an adult & let your frustrations go out at home. You might even hear it from me when a tech or I have mixed up tpa or cyclophosphamide wrong & I have to make it work out because that is the only amount I have on hand & the pt needs it now. So - don't ever tell me or anyone else you work with he/she is not professional because of the language we might use on occasion. I'm a great pharmacist & I've worked with some of the biggest names in my field & in medicine - I'd never be so presumptious to call any of them unprofessional based on what they might say at any given time.

Now - to your specific question - the most commonly used medications in a hospital will be stool softeners, analgesics (mild - like APAP or stronger - opiates) & NSAIDS, perhaps.

Beyond that - its totally dependent on what service you're on. If you're on Neurology - you'll see the antiepliptics, benzodiazepines, perhaps phenobarbital. If you're on CV medicine or surgery, you'll have all the antiarrhythmics, the CA channel blockers, the ace inhibitors, etc...as well as all the stuff thats used in surgery - your inhaled anesthetics, the IV drugs the anesthesiologist has used to maintain pressure, perfusion, respiratory resistance, analgesia - there is no one group of drugs that are most "commonly" used, however every pt will get an order for a routine stool softener & an analgesic. Part of what you're learning is what each of these drugs & classes do - there is no "list"....because using Depakote for a pt with a seizure is different from using it for a pt with migraines or depression.

See the difference?

 

[Old Timer]

I'll put my head in the lions mouth and see if both sides want to bite it off.

PharmDon: What you have to do is be the better and deeper person. It's easy to reach for the profanity and I agree society is way to coarse. You can't change the world, only your reaction to it. Implying your peers are unprofessional because they use profanity is not the way to get them to stop.

For the rest of you, responding to a post is not the same as responding to a code going down hill or losing a patient in the ER. Just because PharmDom would like a different tone does not mean he is self-righteous.

How many of you like to breath second hand smoke? If you went to a baseball game in the 1960's there was second hand smoke and no second hand cursing. If you go to a baseball game today there is no second hand smoke and 30,000 people will shout _____ sucks. It appears we care about our bodies and don't want them polluted with second hand smoke, but we don't care about our souls and how we pollute them with profanity.

Just something for both sides to think about.......

 

[ZpackSux]

Hey guys, 🙂 I posted earlier, but I don't see it, so hopefully this one goes through.

It's our first Therapeutics class and would like to know where I can find the most commonly used meds and their DTP's for them such as adverse effects, drug-drug interactions, indications for the meds. I have some of my notes from pcol, but would like something that is already narrowed down by class of meds... any suggestions?

Also, are there any good practice books for SOAPing and for reading medical notes/charts, I'm having trouble distinguishing DTP's when reading medical charts. 😳

Thanks guys, anything helps!

What do you mean you're having trouble distinguiship DTPs? Distinguish it from what?

And most commonly used meds for what? There are hundreds of commonly used meds for various different diagnosis. Aspirin is commonly used. So is phenergan and propofol..and lopressor, tylenol, plavix, coumadin, haldol, risperdal, catapress, nicotine patch, vacomycin, rocephin, flagyl, zosyn, merrem, ultane, zolofot, prozac, protonix, cathflo, albumin.....versed, glucagen, taxol, aranesp, neupogen...

You're taking a wrong approach. Therapeutics involve disease state. And pharmacotherapy in treating the disease will have a list of drugs used. That's how you'll learn.

Get a DiPiro or Koda Kimble...

 

[Farmercyst]

I'll put my head in the lions mouth and see if both sides want to bite it off.

PharmDon: What you have to do is be the better and deeper person. It's easy to reach for the profanity and I agree society is way to coarse. You can't change the world, only your reaction to it. Implying your peers are unprofessional because they use profanity is not the way to get them to stop.

For the rest of you, responding to a post is not the same as responding to a code going down hill or losing a patient in the ER. Just because PharmDom would like a different tone does not mean he is self-righteous.

How many of you like to breath second hand smoke? If you went to a baseball game in the 1960's there was second hand smoke and no second hand cursing. If you go to a baseball game today there is no second hand smoke and 30,000 people will shout _____ sucks. It appears we care about our bodies and don't want them polluted with second hand smoke, but we don't care about our souls and how we pollute them with profanity.

Just something for both sides to think about.......

Nah, this lion's not hungry, besides, I like it.

 

[sdn1977]

I'll put my head in the lions mouth and see if both sides want to bite it off.

PharmDon: What you have to do is be the better and deeper person. It's easy to reach for the profanity and I agree society is way to coarse. You can't change the world, only your reaction to it. Implying your peers are unprofessional because they use profanity is not the way to get them to stop.

For the rest of you, responding to a post is not the same as responding to a code going down hill or losing a patient in the ER. Just because PharmDom would like a different tone does not mean he is self-righteous.

How many of you like to breath second hand smoke? If you went to a baseball game in the 1960's there was second hand smoke and no second hand cursing. If you go to a baseball game today there is no second hand smoke and 30,000 people will shout _____ sucks. It appears we care about our bodies and don't want them polluted with second hand smoke, but we don't care about our souls and how we pollute them with profanity.

Just something for both sides to think about.......

I respect what you're trying to impart here - its just a bit offensive you might think that what I might say when I'm trying to get your wife's adriamycin mixed correctly might reflect on my soul - thats a bit of a leap!

The fact is - both Tussionex & I respond to a post the same way we respond to a situation in reality. You might not believe that & I don't know Tussionex, but what I say here would be exactly what you'd hear if you worked with me. Go to any other forum - particularly the medical residency forums & you'll see (hear) lots worse language from them - why? Exactly what Tussionex said - gallows humor & stress of the moment.

On another thread - Farmer mentioned the hours I post. Well - some have been after 12 hours working - some hours of those days have been horrible & I'm not particularly pc about my language. I've had my hands slapped because I've told people exactly what I think & some here are a bit less than tolerant of assertive language. Altho I might use these same words as described - I use them & those of us who do, learn to use them when the time & place is right - not in areas where there are patients or families. However, you are naive if you think this is not commonplace in a hospital environment. I guess I just don't know where you work.

As for second hand smoke - well, here in CA - we long ago told smokers they don't have many rights. But, what happened to my family? I sent my daughter to medical school in NC where smoking seems to be the reality still in 2007 - along with tanning & all manner of other self destructive behaviors. What can she do - absolutely nothing at all. She wasn't raised with it, finds it offensive & objectionable, altho she holds her tongue. She is learning not just her new profession, but also acclimating herself to a different environment, which doesn't seem to be changing anytime fast - destructive physically or not, although they seem to be very concerned about souls!

She's flexible - thats what the op needs to do - be flexible.

Oh - btw....physicians won't chart the same as pharmacists - so don't expect to find the information in their notes you expect to see in a pharmacist's notes. As Zpak pointed out, you have to learn the disease states & evaluate what you're seeing with that drug within the context of the disease. The drug is not separate from the disease - it is part & parcel of the disease.

 

[Farmercyst]

The fact is - both Tussionex & I respond to a post the same way we respond to a situation in reality. You might not believe that & I don't know Tussionex, but what I say here would be exactly what you'd hear if you worked with me. Go to any other forum - particularly the medical residency forums & you'll see (hear) lots worse language from them - why? Exactly what Tussionex said - gallows humor & stress of the moment.

Did you forget gasforums, or leave it out intentionally?

 

[tussionex]

gasforums is intriguing...😀

and, i feel that letting out a few coarse words doesn't damage my soul....on the contrary, i feel that letting the anger, frustration, whatever, build up is more damaging!

ps - i worked a 16 hour day yesterday, and am awake and going back after 5 hours of sleep...how many pretty words do ya'll think i uttered when the alarm went off?
😴
ok, no words, really.....just a long, sad moan!🙁

 

[Old Timer]

Now you are twisting what I said. There is the private and the public. Should you decide to your profanity in your private life, that is your choice. In your public and professional life, well that is another matter altogether. If you use profanity while mixing my wife's adriamycin, she won't hear it. If the nurse or pharmacist who hangs the bag uses profanity at her bedside, well that again is a different matter. I don't worry about the effect the cursing has on you, it's the effect it has on others around you.

I can curse with the best of them. It took me a long time in my life to realize the beauty in life is not to give in to your impulses, but to master them. It's easy to reach for profanity in a difficult situation or when you are tired after a long day of being a pharmacist/physician/whatever, it's hard and therefore more rewarding to react with calm and self control in a difficult situation. A wise man once asked "Who is Strong?" and answered, "He/She who controls his/her passions"

As for me judging your soul, I can only judge your actions in this world. Hearts/Souls are God's providence.

 

[sdn1977]

Did you forget gasforums, or leave it out intentionally?

No - I'm not quite sure what your point here is - I used to post frequently there. I'm an OR/ICU pharmacist. They're very colorful - always have been.

 

[Caverject]

Thanks psychoandy for the suggestion. I linked to it and it's very informative.

DTP's, drug therapy problems (such as drug-drug interactions, inappropriate dosing) and identifying them given a patient's chart/record. Or some schools call them DRP's-drug reaction problems.

I'm just curious, does everyone here use language such as 'what the hell'? Why not just ask "What is dtp" or "what is that"?

I don't know, I'm beginning to think this forum of pharmacy students isn't 'professional' as described. I understand that we are all students here in a professional program, but using foul words such as 'hell' (to me is like any other foul word) is immature and offensive when replying to anyone who could be your future colleague. If it's in one's nature to use that kind of language, it should be directed to peers instead.

looks like you're a second or third year student at the moment...you really do have a lot to learn and that learning is not something that can be found in a textbook. Some helpful advice for many people, including myself sometimes, can be found in my avatar. Have a great day! 🙂

 

[tussionex]

Now you are twisting what I said. There is the private and the public. Should you decide to your profanity in your private life, that is your choice. In your public and professional life, well that is another matter altogether. If you use profanity while mixing my wife's adriamycin, she won't hear it. If the nurse or pharmacist who hangs the bag uses profanity at her bedside, well that again is a different matter. I don't worry about the effect the cursing has on you, it's the effect it has on others around you.

I can curse with the best of them. It took me a long time in my life to realize the beauty in life is not to give in to your impulses, but to master them. It's easy to reach for profanity in a difficult situation or when you are tired after a long day of being a pharmacist/physician/whatever, it's hard and therefore more rewarding to react with calm and self control in a difficult situation. A wise man once asked "Who is Strong?" and answered, "He/She who controls his/her passions"

As for me judging your soul, I can only judge your actions in this world. Hearts/Souls are God's providence.

your quote about controlling one's passions is interesting and oddly enough, how i choose to conduct myself...i just base my judgements and choices on a different scale that you...

i don't, nor does anyone else, need anyone's judgement here in this world. religion belongs nowhere in this forum, but "judge not lest ye be judged", anyone?

 

[Old Timer]

This is not the conversation I wanted to have. As for judging, we all do it all of the time. You are judging me, PharmDonduty judges the original responder and then others judged PharmDonduty. I have no problem with you judging anything I write on these forums. I try to be careful in what I say on a public forum.

 

[Farmercyst]

No - I'm not quite sure what your point here is - I used to post frequently there. I'm an OR/ICU pharmacist. They're very colorful - always have been.

You know I've typed an answer to this four times already and I've not been able to submit once before something happens to get rid of it (right now my 10 month old is trying to type.) Essentially I bring up gasforums because it's more moderated than the lounge, but less moderated than these forums. Gives a sample of the middle ground per se.

 

[eelo]

Some helpful advice for many people, including myself sometimes, can be found in my avatar. Have a great day! 🙂

I love you, man........

;-)

 

[tussionex]

i think gasforums are interesting....i learn something everytime i go there...i like to see the way they think about drugs

think i will head there now!

 

[sdn1977]

You know I've typed an answer to this four times already and I've not been able to submit once before something happens to get rid of it (right now my 10 month old is trying to type.) Essentially I bring up gasforums because it's more moderated than the lounge, but less moderated than these forums. Gives a sample of the middle ground per se.

It is not the manner in which they speak which is important - it is the content of which they speak which is! You've missed the point of gasforums if you think it is entirely based on moderation - they have issues far beyond what we have ever dealt with. Its true, moderation was one factor in why they went the way they did, but it is also tied part & parcel with where their profession is, which is an inappropriate place to go in this forum.

Like I said before - you come across all kinds. Be an adult - take everyone as they are & don't get your panties in a bunch.

But - when they want info from you - you better be d*mn sure of what you're saying because they probably know more than you do about the drugs they're giving (that's pretty true in any medical specialty - I post in Pain, General, Psychiatry, Gas, etc...).

However, we can provide some insight into those things which they might not be entirely aware with regard to drugs, laws, kinetics, dynamics, which is great - it gives us the ability to interact - aaaah - PROFESSIONALLY. But, again - you've gotta be very certain of your own knowledge & credentials or they'll all knock you on your *ss! You've also got to keep out of those things which are not in your area of expertise, knowledge base or political framework. I've been in this field 30 years - I'd never have ventured that far as a new grad or even one out of school 10 years - we don't get half the exposure they do.

Language is not the point here!!!! Knowing your stuff, most importantly - knowing what you don't know & being able to work well with everyone is the point.

Learn that & you'll be a professional.

 

[DrugDealer]

A little off-topic, but what is this gasforum everyone speaks of?

 

[imperial frog]

It's for doctors who pass gas. The good kind of gas.

 

[sdn1977]

It's for doctors who pass gas. The good kind of gas.

Cute!😛

Yes - its in the medical residency group of forums - anesthesiology. And - yes, its for physicians, medical residents & medical students. But, they will welcome input from those of us who work with them (the anesthesiologists). But - truely - they know not just the gas, but all the drugs for cardiopulmonary stability, perfusion, narcotics, hypnotics, etc....far better than most pharmacists.