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socialism
Started by mille125
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There's like 0.5 T in that entire room.
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it's truly amazing that was a real meeting. If you look closely you can see Duct and Millie
That says 2019, so if there were any implications you’re probably seeing them now 🙂
These are the people who many on this thread wants to run the country? All I have to say is wow and glad I am building my capitalistic fortune, which many here demonize, in order to have options if/when we go down the socialist path.
ASM quality metrics will be replaced by a yearly certified 2-day training on microaggressions and preferred pronouns. Procedure reimbursements will be cut in half and pain psychologists will outnumber us three to one.
And oddly enough, outcomes will be the same.
The Trump admin lies repeatedly but you don't have to.. Name one person on this thread that supports DSA candidates? If you can't, with respect, stop being mendacious.
No. WS don't pose a threat because their numbers are limited and they hold no power.
OTOH, Hamas is/was the leader of a people and Hamas's charter specifically calls for the destruction of Israel. It used to call for the destruction of the Jewish people but they updated it for PR reasons.
I've already answered your questions and I can only go in circles so many times before I get bored.
might be time to look at more well-rounded data.
yes, healthcare did increase after obamacare, but healthcare growth rate fell from 8% to 4% up until 2018; part of this decrease may have been due to obamacare.
which republicans subsequently gutted.
name 1 person on this thread who wants the DSA to run the country...
and to post a video from 7 years ago to try to prove a point is misleading to say the least.
fwiw, if we were to go down a true socialist path, your capitalistic fortune would do nothing to protect you because the State would repo everything. but that will never happen and only is a thought because of fear mongering by the Right.
when certain individuals lose an argument, it is much easier to for them to shut down and claim boredom than to confront the reality that their positions lack critical thinking and/or any sort of factual basis. prevalent in the MAGA circle.
Okay, last time and then I'm no longer playing your silly games
You're comparing all ws murders to only ideological murders. A fairer comparison would be all WS murders to all Muslim murders, or only ideo WS murders to ideo Muslim murders.
Ideo murders pose more of a threat to me and to you than other types of murders because the other murders typically include a reason by the victim that resulted in the murders. The article lists domestic violence, gang related murders, other crimes, etc. This doesn't pose a significant threat to me because as long as I'm not involved in that particular reason for those murders, I shouldn't be murdered. Same reason why most americans don't feel threatened by black on black crime in inner cities or Mafia related murders. Stay out of the way and you should be good for the most part. Not true for ideo murders which are random and typically target innocent people.
The question is the rise in the power and number of muslims in the US. If muslims make up 1% of the US pop but commit the same ideo murders as WS what happens when their numbers increase. Will it be commensurate? I don't know the answer to that but that's the concern. If we look at other Western nations, we find that this concern is pretty universal throughout the west. What's going on in Austria and Afd's recent domination in the polls is a perfect example of this. Similar politics can be found throughout Europe, when just a few short years ago no one would ever have expected this to occur. It was a taboo topic.
Generalizations from shoddy statistics. What's the original article? ADL comes up for me. Do they have bias worth mentioning? ADL is an advocacy group, not a stats agency. What counts as "ideological" vs "non-ideological" isn't well-defined as something like FBI data. What makes a murder non-ideological hate crime vs ideological? Does that change your personal risk?
Also can't generalize per-capita data on rare, extreme events. 2022-2024 were 100% right-wing extremism. Islamist-extremist deaths are skewed over any time period overwhelmingly from the Orlando shooting. That's like saying if there are no school shootings for a few years and then one happens, kids are suddenly at 5x the risk of dying in a mass shooting. To draw conclusions that the Muslim population growing from 1.3% to 1.6% will increase ideological murders proportionally doesn't make logical sense.
These are all extraordinarily rare events relative to the population. What's the likelihood of being murdered by a stranger vs. being killed in any "ideological" murder?
I was responding to the same refernece that you or the other B guy put out there. He referenced it. I referenced him.
If you're asking me what I think describes an ideo murder, I think it's pretty clear.
Ideo:
1. They want it to be known
2. They don't try to hide what they did
3. They have some type of message, propaganda, manifesto, that they want to world to hear about, etc
4. Based on some type of belief system
5. Random
Non ideo:
1. Based more on greed, male ego, a woman, a car, drugs, gang activity, territory, etc.
From my experience, Men usually fight over females, money, ego, drugs
They give their definition in their article but the above is mine
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All murders in the US are exceedingly rare and very unlikely to happen to you or me, especially by someone you or I don't know. When people kill each other, they're usually people they know. Most black people kill black people, most white kill whites. ISIS mostly kills muslims, etc.
I'm not making the argument that muslims are a significant threat to Americans. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. It's not the point. What I was responding to was the question of why some Americans fear the rise of Muslims in the US. Perception for the most part equals reality.
You keep saying ideological murders but ever murder by far white groups or jihadist is ideological. Otherwise it is organized crime. So I don't understand the distinction.
I also don't understand why you keep speaking of the 1 percent Muslim population when we all agree that a high percentage is foreign.
Perception doesn't come out of nowhere. It's driven by bad math used to justify fear-mongering of Muslims.
About 1,600 murders a year are committed by strangers. Over the last 5 years, there have been 15 ideological murders by Islamist extremists and about 75 by white supremacists total. That means Islamist extremism accounts for less than 0.2% of stranger murders, white supremacists about 1%, and other strangers 99% of murders.
Extrapolation a demographic trend and saying the Muslim population increases this from 0.2% to 0.25% is fear-mongering using poor statistics.
No, that would be incorrect. Toss it in the pile with the rest of your garbo. WS kill people for gang related reasons, informancy, drugs, domestic violence, etc. Also, noted in that article which you didn't read.
The article wasn't looking at the past 5 years. It's looking at a 10-year period.
The article is looking at domestic murders by muslims, not foreign ones.
We're going in circles and it's getting annoying. I'm close to jumping ship because repeating myself is getting boring.
He does a good job of exposing that socialism is all about envy. If they hurt "the rich", the landlords, the business owners, that's a win. The poor are expendable, collateral damage.
Socialists play upon the sympathies of good people to accomplish their twisted goals of diminishing prosperity and hurting people.
yet ideological murders between white supremacists vs muslims is greater in number when taking in to account that ideological white supremacist murders are undercounted in the article.
people fear muslim ideological murders not because their frequency but because there is a political side that finds that dividing the country and fear mongering is good for business.
take your pick. muslims today. russians yesterday. asians in between. or irish immigration?
or trans. how trans people would destroy our younger generation as teachers are doing sex changes in the hallway during study hall.
all this is fear mongering by the right to find someone to create a bogeyman and cause divisiveness and fear to energize their base and remain in power.
all the while the oligarchy hoards the vast riches of the US that the vast majority of decent hard working americans are denied from partaking in
so that is a very misleading clip.
we need to build more housing units.
the problem with st. paul is that it is right next to minneapolis.
what happens when 1 area effects rent control yet literally next door the adjoining city decides not to, and actually make more housing development?
people of course are going to move to minneapolis.
again, i am not a proponent of rent control. i am in favor of building more housing and surpluses of housing units will drive the price down.
the problem is that those with the capital to build more have decided for the most part that they can make even more money by hoarding it, not investing it in the community, and living off of untaxable gains instead of investing in more housing. almost everything encourages rich landlords to bump up the rent of existing units rather than invest in the community by building more.
Which one of these does not belong?
Or maybe bc of 9/11 and other terrorist attacks. You deny reality on a daily basis
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Undercounted. I guess if you say so. Either way, for the billionthestmostuppiteist time, it's the article that the other guy posted. Since you know more than the ADL, take it up with the other homie who posted it.
Guess what y'all, is there anyone surprised that ducttape knows more about white supremacy murders than the ADL that is undercounting it? Never mind that the primary mission of the ADL is to target public opinion and policy against Neo Nazi White Supremacy and they are frequently chided for overrepresenting this group's relation to violence.
And you seem to know more than the department of homeland security. If we are talking about current Trump admin departments, you probably do know more than them. But in 2020 the DHS reported that white supremacists posed the top domestic terrorism threat which was corroborated by the FBI director. Those statements stand on their own.
According to Google, the probability you will get killed by a white supremacist in the US is 0.0000024%.
You are equally likely to get struck by lightening 40 TIMES. Are you worried about that?
Thanks for proving my point. The threat from Islamist extremists is 5x lower than the white supremacist stat you just posted. Using those odds to fear-monger about Muslims, fake Sharia takeover, and 0.3% population change is absurd.
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Exactly, which is why hyper said it's a boogeyman.
Needless to say, but most likely political
No need to thank him because he didn't prove your point.
As mentioned, the chance of being murdered is very low, period, so the threat of being murdered should be very low. That's across the board.
Nearly all people of all groups in the US do not commit violent crime. I already gave the example of black Americans being disproportionately responsible for violent crime, especially if you narrow it down to specific age and gender demographics. We can argue the reasons why this exists, but you can't dispute it.
Whatever the reason, nearly all Black Americans do not commit violent crime. Most people of all groups are just decent people who want to go on living their lives and not harm others, at least in the US. They may have thoughts of killing people, but very, very few will actually act upon it. I've had plenty of thoughts and fantasies of pulling a Luigi Mangione, but I would never do it.
But that doesn't discount the proportion of whites who are violent white supremacists compared to the proportion of Muslims.
If you don't like the ADL data, we can look at the other example the B guy referenced, at least I think he did if anyone wants to go back and check it out. The B guy includes you and the other fella since I don't remember which of you I was responding to.
CSIS:
"CSIS compiled a dataset of 740 terrorist attacks and plots in the United States between January 1, 1994, and January 1, 2025, 140 of which were jihadist attacks and plots."
That's nearly 20%. Remember, this is from a population making up about 1 percent of the population.
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FWIW, it isn't that you don't think the ADL data is correct. It's more that you don't like it because it doesn't support your worldview and the points you want other people to believe, so rather than fes up you're going to try and discount it. That holds true for the others in here too. It's really a shame that doctors who are supposed to use data would let their emotions control them like this.
I'm curious about your views on what's going on in Europe. Why do you think Europeans are responding to Muslim immigration and Islam in general in the way they are?
I'm also curious about your views on why so many Islamic countries are failed states. To give perspective, 0 western countries can be considered failed states. Do you think it's not justifiable for people living in Western countries to be concerned about this?
In their mind, the US is a failed state.
Using CSIS 'plots' data is another selective statistic you're pulling in when the murder data didn't work for you.
Changing datasets and using new definitions every time your fear-mongering breaks down doesn't change the microscopic risk. Just bad statistics.
As usual, you resort to ad hominem attack when the numbers don't work.
Another goalpost shift. When the US numbers don't support your Muslim takeover narrative, you drop it and jump to a bunch of loaded geopolitical questions.
Still the best country in the world, despite attempts to dismantle it through overreach of executive orders and abuse of the judiciary. Trump is a much bigger danger than an imaginary Sharia takeover.
#1. The data proved the exact point I made. You just don't want to admit it because it makes you uncomfortable. I'm not sure how you can deny this, as I made my point crystal clear multiple times
#2. I don't fear-monger, and there is no reason for me to. I'm not for or against Muslims or Islam. There is good and bad to both, just like everything else. I'm objective and just listing data. You're not. You're emotional because you're Muslim, so you take it personally but whether or not you're insulted is irrelevant.
#3. I haven't made an ad hominem attack against you. I refrained, but I do want to call you a stupid jackass after this post, but I won't. More on that below.
#4. I've admitted multiple times that the risk of being killed is minimal, including in the post you responded to
#5. I don't fear a Muslim takeover because it will never happen. The majority of Western people will do exactly what the Europeans are doing.
#6. There is no goalpost shift. I am asking your opinion on other issues
Now, why do I want to call you a stupid jackass (which I won't do). These are not me selectively choosing data sets. I am using the data sets that the baba guy used and responding to those. Now I had to waste time looking this up for you. Grrrrrrr!!!!
You conceded in #4 and #5 that the risk is minimal and a takeover won't happen. That was my entire argument. Fear-mongering.
Guessing my religion to dismiss basic stats and claiming "I won't call you a jackass but..." shows you ran out of counterarguments.
Thanks for confirming the math.
Ay dios mio!!!!
I didn't concede anything. I've said this the entire time. You're too emotional about this issue and can't think clearly, so you're getting mixed up. Let me guess, you're a youngster? Am I right? Probably in your late 20s or 30s? You're not an old-timer like me. I'm nearing 80.
I'm trying to figure out whether I'd rather discuss issues with you or ram dull pencils in my eyes. I'm not yet sure, but with that said, I am still genuinely curious about your opinion on the Euro issues. I'm truly interested in your perspective.
Trump is time limited in danger. After the midterms when reds lose house and/or senate, Trump will be bogged down with daily impeachments. Proving checks and balances still works.
We agree on something.
I have already brought this up to Pain App saying that this discussion is moot because the risks are infinitesimal. Yet still some use this as a platform to spread their anti Muslim bias such as quoting increases in domestic Muslim populations as an issue when the risk is less than getting struck by lightning 40 times as you said.
So yes we agree in something.
He said earlier that he is considering jumping off the boat. He should.
😂 you ain’t close to 80!
but it's fun playing around
According to the Atlantic, the DSA is a parasite and the Democratic Party is its host
The DSA’s Problem Isn’t ‘Media Training’
Authoritarian extremists are speaking for American socialists, and a lot of people don’t like what they say.
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I'd feel the same way as you if my debate opponent kept making my arguments look like the trash that they are, as I'm doing to yours
Defenders of the DSA and socialism just carries the heavy burden of "woe is me", "life is not fair" which I feel sorry for. Continue with this mindset and you will never improve your life because, guess what..... Life is NOT fair. Life will never be fair. Accept and do something or wallow in self pity without improvement in your life. I am 1st gen immigrant, poorer than 99% of Americans when I got here, and now my NW is top 1%. There is NO "Woe is me" in my DNA. I do not envy other's success. Other's success drives me to be just as or more successful. My kids are taught never to envy or think life is not fair, but to use the perceived disadvantage as a motivation to outwork them. Can't is not a work in my DNA. There is NOTHING you can not do in America regardless where you start. It is like a marathon, some start at mile 12, some at mile 1, and I started at mile 0. But that does not mean I could not beat the guy that started at mile 1 or 12. I may lose to the guy at mile 23 but I sure will give my best effort.
Housing costs, complaining that is it the owner's fault for high rent, and wanting the gov to intervene is laughable. Cali is one of the most "socialist" leaning state but yet have the 2nd highest avg home costs. Cali is a huge state with lots of land. Why not promote house building rather than making it almost impossible to build new homes? This would guarantee home prices will drop; it is a simple supple & demand. But Leftist dems love to talk on one side their mouth but know deep in their hearts, they like to keep status quo. Leftist Dems in Cali want to keep their home prices high and do not want any threat to their NW.
Housing costs, complaining that is it the owner's fault for high rent, and wanting the gov to intervene is laughable. Cali is one of the most "socialist" leaning state but yet have the 2nd highest avg home costs. Cali is a huge state with lots of land. Why not promote house building rather than making it almost impossible to build new homes? This would guarantee home prices will drop; it is a simple supple & demand. But Leftist dems love to talk on one side their mouth but know deep in their hearts, they like to keep status quo. Leftist Dems in Cali want to keep their home prices high and do not want any threat to their NW.
My main argument is that you point is moot and insignificant given the statistics that even you are quoting. You have made no argument disputing this. If anything you are supporting it with your own statistics. You are writing a long soliloquy about something that is infinitesimal and therefore irrelevant.
You mentioned jumping out of the conversation. For the reasons above I agree with you. It has nothing to do with winning or losing an argument.
Don't you mean mille 125?
