socialism

Started by mille125
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Salman Rushdie Says Hi.

Dude practice free speech. Dude gets death sentence from Khomeini. Khomeini was the Supreme leader or Iran. Iran is overwhelmingly Muslim (99+%). Thus the vast majority of Iranian=Muslims agreed with their supreme leader. What does this say about Iranian 90+M Muslims?

Debate closed.

Let me articulate this another way. If I burned the Koran in Iran, would I get immediately killed. I think the answer is yes. If I burned the Bible in the US, would I get killed. I think the answer is no.
 
The classic definitions have been blurred for some time. Socialism involves a redistribution of wealth back to society and we aren’t seeing that as much. We are seeing a strong central government and POTUS imposing its way, which leads to the “fascist” tag. The economic doctrines of fascism seemed to be similar to far left ideas with autocratic allocation of resources. Either way the people get the shaft while those in government prosper.
Fascists DO censor, rig or weaken elections, persecute political opponents, ignore what their voters actually want, and use or excuse political violence to hold power.

By those measures, the Democratic Party as an institution has been far more fascistic than the GOP or Trump.

Democrats have used the legal system against a leading political rival, including efforts to jail their main presidential opponent. They have backed speech restrictions and platform pressure. They have run antidemocratic nomination processes (skipping a real primary when many Democrats wanted one) and opposed voter ID while the border was wide open. Leading voices have spent years calling opponents fascists, Nazis, and “Hitler 2.0,” a climate in which there have been multiple assassination attempts. There is also a record of street violence from groups like Antifa and of treating political murder as something other than an unambiguous line. On policy, large majorities of Democratic voters wanted the border treated as an emergency; the Biden administration kept it open anyway—widely interpreted by critics as a bid to import future voters and pad census numbers in blue states.

Fascists DO NOT fight for free speech, fight for election integrity, or show restraint about political violence.

Trump has pushed election-security measures, a sovereign border, and freer speech. He could have pursued Hillary Clinton over destruction of evidence and chose not to. He is a populist. The closest alleged “incitement” on January 6 is this language:

“I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.”

“So we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue — I love Pennsylvania Avenue — and we are going to the Capitol. And we are going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.”

Claiming Trump is more fascistic than the Democratic apparatus is not a serious political judgment, and disqualifies you as someone capable of political debate.

If you’re a Democrat, you don’t like these facts, and you don’t like that Donald Trump is president again, that’s on you. Your party should have produced a candidate who could beat him. Instead it put up tired D.C. swamp creatures, lost, and reminded the rest of the country what not to strive for. Next time, primary the people running your party into the ground. And if Democrats are even still capable of it, pick someone who earns the vote on competence—not identity politics.

in the last election. go primary the parasites currently leading your party, and install someone whose actually better than Trump.
 
Salman Rushdie Says Hi.

Dude practice free speech. Dude gets death sentence from Khomeini. Khomeini was the Supreme leader or Iran. Iran is overwhelmingly Muslim (99+%). Thus the vast majority of Iranian=Muslims agreed with their supreme leader. What does this say about Iranian 90+M Muslims?

Debate closed.

Let me articulate this another way. If I burned the Koran in Iran, would I get immediately killed. I think the answer is yes. If I burned the Bible in the US, would I get killed. I think the answer is no.
Flawless logic. Just like all Jews agree with Netanyahu and all Christians agree with Trump.

My guy goes from socialist bashing to Muslim bashing. Seems to be favorite pastimes of Fox News.
 
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actually not true.

the states with highest homicide rates:
View attachment 408751
(i only put the top 13 because that was what fit in the screen fo rme to snip. In, Nv, Fla, Md, NM, Penn and Mi made up the remaining 20)


i dont see a single blue state there.

i see only 2 states with a large blue city on that list - New Orleans and Memphis.


of note, Tenn outside of Memphis also has a violent crime rate above the national average, with memphis having the 4th highest murder rate of cities in Tenn. In Louisiana, New Orleans is considered the 5th most dangerous city.


of course, some of these cities are very small. for example Bolivar Tenn has a population of 5127 and 3 murders. but the point is that the rest of the state has a high murder rate similar to the blue center you are trying to implicate.


Highest homicide-rate cities (2024, per 100,000):
1789003906380.png


Lowest homicide rates, cities 200k+ (2024):
1789004037115.png
 
Cali has a stronghold on all levels in Sacramento. If socialism, socialist policies including wealth distribution/rent control/free housing/free transportation/homeless care are so wonderful then why does Cali have one of the highest home prices, rents, transportation costs, and homeless problem?

Socialism and those defending it on here continue to ignore facts. If rent control is so great, why don't we also have anesthesiology income control? Surely that would make healthcare more accessible.
 
Flawless logic. Just like all Jews agree with Netanyahu and all Christians agree with Trump.
To an extent the majority of Israeli Jews and the US voting Americans agree with them and that is why they are in power. Like it or not, they were voted in.

So yes, the majority of the 90+M Iranian Muslims agree with what their leaders do. Again, if You burned the Koran in the middle of Tehran, You would be dead before the Book turned into ashes.
 
Highest homicide-rate cities (2024, per 100,000):
View attachment 424383

Lowest homicide rates, cities 200k+ (2024):
View attachment 424384
I don't think it's the dem leadership itself that makes things violent but it represents the number of violent constituents.

If you and your family and friends are violent criminals or associate with violent criminals and you hate cops, you are more likely to vote D.
 
To an extent the majority of Israeli Jews and the US voting Americans agree with them and that is why they are in power. Like it or not, they were voted in.

So yes, the majority of the 90+M Iranian Muslims agree with what their leaders do. Again, if You burned the Koran in the middle of Tehran, You would be dead before the Book turned into ashes.

Sounds like you got it figured out. Authoritatrian dictators mean the majority of the population automatically supports everything they do. Are you advising to avoid all Iranian Muslims, or the 2 billion Muslims in general? I can try to guess who is Muslim based on how they dress or if I see them washing their feet, but any tips on how to avoid socialists?
 

Antisemitism is real on both the left and the right. The problem is that groups like ADL and AIPAC have spent years conflating legitimate criticism of Israeli government or lobby groups with antisemitism. Weaponizing antisemitism to shield the Israeli government or entities like AIPAC from criticism has cheapened the accusation and made more and more people numb to he accusation even when it is very legitimate.

AIPAC is referenced. There is nothing antisemitic about criticizing a political action committee and its influence on US politics. This is a video form J street, a pro-Israel group. They do a good job of making the distinction:



On a side note, Mike Rogers asked AIPAC not to run ads for him in the Michigan Senate primary. That's the first Republican who is actually pro-Israel I've seen refuse AIPAC support.
 
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Cali has a stronghold on all levels in Sacramento. If socialism, socialist policies including wealth distribution/rent control/free housing/free transportation/homeless care are so wonderful then why does Cali have one of the highest home prices, rents, transportation costs, and homeless problem?

Socialism and those defending it on here continue to ignore facts. If rent control is so great, why don't we also have anesthesiology income control? Surely that would make healthcare more accessible.
I guess that’s why California has the worst economy in the US too and certainly not the largest among all the States.
 
Sounds like you got it figured out. Authoritatrian dictators mean the majority of the population automatically supports everything they do. Are you advising to avoid all Iranian Muslims, or the 2 billion Muslims in general? I can try to guess who is Muslim based on how they dress or if I see them washing their feet, but any tips on how to avoid socialists?
Avoiding socialists: Go to work.
 
Which one of these does not belong?
all of them are bogeymen at one point in time.
Undercounted. I guess if you say so. Either way, for the billionthestmostuppiteist time, it's the article that the other guy posted. Since you know more than the ADL, take it up with the other homie who posted it.

Guess what y'all, is there anyone surprised that ducttape knows more about white supremacy murders than the ADL that is undercounting it? Never mind that the primary mission of the ADL is to target public opinion and policy against Neo Nazi White Supremacy and they are frequently chided for overrepresenting this group's relation to violence.

interestingly, there is nothing in their policy statement that suggests specifically Neo Nazi White Supremacy.
ADL is the leading anti-hate organization in the world. Founded in 1913 to protect the Jewish people, ADL works to stop the defamation of the Jewish people and secure justice and fair treatment to all.

the ADL has had long history of islamophobia all in the guise of antisemitism. this has increased significantly into an anti-palestinian platform.
 
I guess that’s why California has the worst economy in the US too and certainly not the largest among all the States.
That’s a good point. It does have one of the worst economies and one of the largest deficits in the country. It’s the perfect economic example of how NOT to run a state, or how to run a state off the proverbial economic cliff

And people don’t like it. They’re moving en mass from California. So not the best example

“Millions of Americans decide to vote with their feet every year. You can see who the big losers and winners are. The winners: South Carolina, Idaho, Alabama, Tennessee, Wyoming, Montana, Texas. The biggest losers: California, New York, Maryland, Washington, Kansas and Illinois.

Some Illinois residents have decided to do something different: they talked to their neighbors and had a vote on whether their county should leave the state. So far, 𝟯𝟯 𝗿𝘂𝗿𝗮𝗹 𝗜𝗹𝗹𝗶𝗻𝗼𝗶𝘀 𝗰𝗼𝘂𝗻𝘁𝗶𝗲𝘀 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝘃𝗼𝘁𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗼 𝗲𝘅𝗽𝗹𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝗹𝗲𝗮𝘃𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗜𝗹𝗹𝗶𝗻𝗼𝗶𝘀, prompting Indiana lawmakers to pass a law creating a border adjustment commission to study absorbing them.

In 2013, a dozen Colorado counties considered leaving the state, although ultimately they stayed put--and probably regret it to this day.”

1789058982555.png

 
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Fascists DO censor, rig or weaken elections, persecute political opponents, ignore what their voters actually want, and use or excuse political violence to hold power.

By those measures, the Democratic Party as an institution has been far more fascistic than the GOP or Trump.

Democrats have used the legal system against a leading political rival, including efforts to jail their main presidential opponent. They have backed speech restrictions and platform pressure. They have run antidemocratic nomination processes (skipping a real primary when many Democrats wanted one) and opposed voter ID while the border was wide open. Leading voices have spent years calling opponents fascists, Nazis, and “Hitler 2.0,” a climate in which there have been multiple assassination attempts. There is also a record of street violence from groups like Antifa and of treating political murder as something other than an unambiguous line. On policy, large majorities of Democratic voters wanted the border treated as an emergency; the Biden administration kept it open anyway—widely interpreted by critics as a bid to import future voters and pad census numbers in blue states.

Fascists DO NOT fight for free speech, fight for election integrity, or show restraint about political violence.

Trump has pushed election-security measures, a sovereign border, and freer speech. He could have pursued Hillary Clinton over destruction of evidence and chose not to. He is a populist. The closest alleged “incitement” on January 6 is this language:

“I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.”

“So we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue — I love Pennsylvania Avenue — and we are going to the Capitol. And we are going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.”

Claiming Trump is more fascistic than the Democratic apparatus is not a serious political judgment, and disqualifies you as someone capable of political debate.

If you’re a Democrat, you don’t like these facts, and you don’t like that Donald Trump is president again, that’s on you. Your party should have produced a candidate who could beat him. Instead it put up tired D.C. swamp creatures, lost, and reminded the rest of the country what not to strive for. Next time, primary the people running your party into the ground. And if Democrats are even still capable of it, pick someone who earns the vote on competence—not identity politics.

in the last election. go primary the parasites currently leading your party, and install someone whose actually better than Trump.
this is one of the best examples of the pot calling the kettle.



trump has tried to rig elections. tried to buy elections.
trump is persecuting his political opponents - comey, james, clinton,
trump has told americans to just deal with gas price increase. has ignored military, denigrated decorated war heros.

he actively is trying to suppress free speech and actively trying to take away americans right to vote by instituting what is essentially poll taxes, and sic'd his followers to directly attack poll workers.

he denigrated those republicans who actually stood for limited government and balanced budget such that they dont exist in political power now.

he did try to go down Penn Ave with Jan 6 mob but Secret Service refused.

otoh, as an independent, i agree that he is a populist - one who thrives on "there's a sucker born every minute" philosophy and is a grifter and con artist. he won primarily because he grifted enough americans in to believing he could offer something better, which he has woefully failed to deliver. yes, democrats and left leaners also made stupid mistakes, and they have paid the price (see jill stein supporters and those that supported palestine that decided to not vote dem because they wanted someone more empathetic to their cause)


Claiming Trump is more fascistic than the Democratic apparatus is not a serious political judgment, and disqualifies you as someone capable of political debate.
this is a logical fallacy. attacking the presenter rather than talking points.

do better.
 
Trump proposed $5,000 checks to all US adults if Republicans win the midterms. Vance said wealthy adults would be excluded.

What should we call this? I know we can't call it socialism because it's Trump. Capitalist bonus sharing?

 
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Trump proposed $5,000 checks to all US adults if Republicans win the midterms. Vance said wealthy adults would be excluded.

What should we call this? I know we can't call it socialism because it's Trump. Capitalist bonus sharing?

I think bribery is a more appropriate term.
 
Trump proposed $5,000 checks to all US adults if Republicans win the midterms. Vance said wealthy adults would be excluded.

What should we call this? I know we can't call it socialism because it's Trump. Capitalist bonus sharing?

I would call it pathetic and desperate.
 
Cali likely has the most significant advantages compared to any other state. Great Weather check. Great tech/companies check. Great beaches Check. Great tax base Check. Great ports check. Great cities, night life, food, entertainment check.

With all of this, they somehow found a way to screw things up. Billions on Light rail but yet not a single rider. Millions on homeless and problems just getting worse. Wildfire yearly because they can't remediate all of the dried up vegetation. Housing cost problem. Builders who want to can't build due to all the crazy restrictions. List goes on and on.

Socialist ideas at its best. Tax the billionaires. Reparation. Increase Taxes. Increase waste.

Socialism and their ideals is a cancer that has never worked. Yet many on here think rent control, tax the rich, increase welfare, Gov grocery, etc is great.

Californians and their government do not want affordable housing b/c it affects their bottom line. Cali has so much land and building would be easy but yet the gov continues to put up barriers to new builds.
 
Cali likely has the most significant advantages compared to any other state. Great Weather check. Great tech/companies check. Great beaches Check. Great tax base Check. Great ports check. Great cities, night life, food, entertainment check.

With all of this, they somehow found a way to screw things up. Billions on Light rail but yet not a single rider. Millions on homeless and problems just getting worse. Wildfire yearly because they can't remediate all of the dried up vegetation. Housing cost problem. Builders who want to can't build due to all the crazy restrictions. List goes on and on.

Socialist ideas at its best. Tax the billionaires. Reparation. Increase Taxes. Increase waste.

Socialism and their ideals is a cancer that has never worked. Yet many on here think rent control, tax the rich, increase welfare, Gov grocery, etc is great.

Californians and their government do not want affordable housing b/c it affects their bottom line. Cali has so much land and building would be easy but yet the gov continues to put up barriers to new builds.
Cali is great example failed democratic fiscal policies. Interestingly 9/10 of the worst states economically are all democrat run

1789082341101.png
 
Trump proposed $5,000 checks to all US adults if Republicans win the midterms. Vance said wealthy adults would be excluded.

What should we call this? I know we can't call it socialism because it's Trump. Capitalist bonus sharing?

I would call it pandering.

It's hard to imagine anyone actually believing they're gonna get a 5k check.
 
Cali is great example failed democratic fiscal policies. Interestingly 9/10 of the worst states economically are all democrat run

View attachment 424420
it looks as though you posted data from an article written in 2022.


more recently, California is tops in state debt but Texas is #2.


1789127278894.png


dated Nov 24 2025.


and state debt does not represent failed policies. not sure where you got that, or you would have to admit that Texas is a worst state economically.

===

you are looking at total numbers irrespective of population. obviously bigger states will have higher debt. what is more specific and controls (somewhat) for population size is looking at per capita debt.

when you look at per capita debt, Alasaka is #1.

NY and Cali are 21st and 22nd in per capita debt. Texas is 31st.


===

yet another aspect is how much debt is compared to the GDP of a state. those with high GDP may expect to and be able to carry more debt.

Hawaii is the worst at 10.1%. Alaska is #2. RI, Vermont, Conn and WV. every other state is under 6%.

NY debt as a percent of GDP ratio is 2.4%. Cali is 2.7%. Texas is 2.5%.

===

the flip side is the amount of aid that each state gives to its people - for example SNAP.

#1 by total numbers of course is California. #2 is Texas, and #3 is NY.
 
Wow, using debt as a metric of failure. By clubdeac's logic that places the United States as the worst run economically in the world.
 
"worst states economically"?

you CAN'T be this stupid. you just cant.

sorry, stupid is wrong word. ignorant? misinformed? simple?
Why are you such a dick head. Honestly what happened? Who hurt you? You may be the biggest prick I know….well thankfully I don’t personally know you

Would you like to defend your position or just hurl ad hominem attacks. Duct would say your position is a logical fallacy (attacking the presenter instead of the data)
 
Why are you such a dick head. Honestly what happened? Who hurt you? You may be the biggest prick I know….well thankfully I don’t personally know you

Would you like to defend your position or just hurl ad hominem attacks. Duct would say your position is a logical fallacy (attacking the presenter instead of the data)
when you say that california and NY are "worse economically" than louisiana, arkansas and mississippi, you look like an ignorant fool. sorry. its not ad hominem, but there is just not a legitimate way to defend your position.

you think i am a dickhead because i disagree with your political positions, not because i am actually a dickhead.

i dont think i was hurt per se. parents divorced in a crucial psychosexual development stage of my childhood, but i am pretty sure i successfully dealt with that by womanizing in my 20's.
 
Defending socialism and DSA policies. Amazing to believe educated people actually think these policies have any basis in reality. A waste to debate but good for a few laughs.
 
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Why are you such a dick head. Honestly what happened? Who hurt you? You may be the biggest prick I know….well thankfully I don’t personally know you

Would you like to defend your position or just hurl ad hominem attacks. Duct would say your position is a logical fallacy (attacking the presenter instead of the data)
Fortunately, he's in the minority on this board.

Most people, even if they're hopelessly lost like ducttape and mille, are still capable of respectful dialogue.
 
I think most people that are interested in socialism start with good intentions. They are under the impression that it will be a more humane and egalitarian system (which may seem that way on paper). I think when you look at countries that had socialist revolutions, unfortunately the opposite is true

I think ultimately people are looking for a system that feels fair, and is fair in implementation

If you want to force equal outcomes rather than equal opportunities, that means you are going to need a strong handed government and significantly less freedom both of individuals and communities

For those of you that supports socialism -- let me ask you a question. My observation is most of the physicians in this group are hard workers and if anything are at the top end of the bell curve. I am pretty productive and a lot of folks on here put me to shame, significantly

For those review who support socialism and DSA types are you comfortable getting paid the same amount regardless of the number of patients you see, and more specifically are you comfortable getting paid the exact same amount as a physician that does half of the work that you do but you has the same title and works for the same hospital/governmental department?

What do you think your behavioral response would be to a system like that? What type of quality, efficiency, and productivity would you end up delivering if we unlinked your ambition to your compensation, now multiply that across an entire society. Basically you could have your entire society looking like the DMV, or worse
 
I think most people that are interested in socialism start with good intentions. They are under the impression that it will be a more humane and egalitarian system (which may seem that way on paper). I think when you look at countries that had socialist revolutions, unfortunately the opposite is true

I think ultimately people are looking for a system that feels fair, and is fair in implementation

If you want to force equal outcomes rather than equal opportunities, that means you are going to need a strong handed government and significantly less freedom both of individuals and communities

For those of you that supports socialism -- let me ask you a question. My observation is most of the physicians in this group are hard workers and if anything are at the top end of the bell curve. I am pretty productive and a lot of folks on here put me to shame, significantly

For those review who support socialism and DSA types are you comfortable getting paid the same amount regardless of the number of patients you see, and more specifically are you comfortable getting paid the exact same amount as a physician that does half of the work that you do but you has the same title and works for the same hospital/governmental department?

What do you think your behavioral response would be to a system like that? What type of quality, efficiency, and productivity would you end up delivering if we unlinked your ambition to your compensation, now multiply that across an entire society. Basically you could have your entire society looking like the DMV, or worse
I think you put your finger on it.

If your intention is to help people and only help people, it's noble. I think that's the intention of most young "socialists".

But for the broader political socialist movement today, helping anyone is an afterthought.

There's nothing noble about hurting people, taxing them more, etc
 
Fortunately, he's in the minority on this board.

Most people, even if they're hopelessly lost like ducttape and mille, are still capable of respectful dialogue.
This is too funny. You guys have a tendency towards being rude, condescending, and downright insulting in the private forum. I ignore it because presumably everyone here is over the age of 12 and can handle it. Plus there’s no point being annoyed when the forum moderator joins in. Spare me the pearl-clutching or buy a necklace that isn’t so tight.
 
This is too funny. You guys have a tendency towards being rude, condescending, and downright insulting in the private forum. I ignore it because presumably everyone here is over the age of 12 and can handle it. Plus there’s no point being annoyed when the forum moderator joins in. Spare me the pearl-clutching or buy a necklace that isn’t so tight.
You're insulting 12 y/os 😂
 
I think most people that are interested in socialism start with good intentions. They are under the impression that it will be a more humane and egalitarian system (which may seem that way on paper). I think when you look at countries that had socialist revolutions, unfortunately the opposite is true

I think ultimately people are looking for a system that feels fair, and is fair in implementation

If you want to force equal outcomes rather than equal opportunities, that means you are going to need a strong handed government and significantly less freedom both of individuals and communities

For those of you that supports socialism -- let me ask you a question. My observation is most of the physicians in this group are hard workers and if anything are at the top end of the bell curve. I am pretty productive and a lot of folks on here put me to shame, significantly

For those review who support socialism and DSA types are you comfortable getting paid the same amount regardless of the number of patients you see, and more specifically are you comfortable getting paid the exact same amount as a physician that does half of the work that you do but you has the same title and works for the same hospital/governmental department?

What do you think your behavioral response would be to a system like that? What type of quality, efficiency, and productivity would you end up delivering if we unlinked your ambition to your compensation, now multiply that across an entire society. Basically you could have your entire society looking like the DMV, or worse
1789228705719.png
 
Still the best country in the world, despite attempts to dismantle it through overreach of executive orders and abuse of the judiciary. Trump is a much bigger danger than an imaginary Sharia takeover.
agreed...

Many on here seem to think that criticizing the leaders of our country means that you are not patriotic. If you had your patriotism placed where it needs to be, you would oppose almost everything coming from this administration as I do.

The threat of the current administration TRUMPS anything related to an imaginary Sharia takeover.
 
Yes the US is in a fiscal nightmare. If you don’t realize that you’ve been living under a rock
And yet your President starts a war in Iran and now wants to add 1 trillion more to the debt by paying each family $5000 (if Republicans win).

But its Trump so you are going to criticize that....no no cant do that.

Also the Trump apologists on here talk on and on about the dangers of socialism but are totally silent or dismissive on things like the government buying private companies.

The only response so far is....oh he doesn't really mean it. I know that by definitiion you have to reach real wide to support the Trump administration but man this is a new low.
 
I am putting people who defend socialism with flat earthers. Earth is flat = rent control good.
Is the govt buying shares of a private company socialist or not? I will answer for you. It is the absolute textbook definition of true socialism.

Why aren't you speaking aggressively against that given your obvious disdain of socialism?
 
I think most people that are interested in socialism start with good intentions. They are under the impression that it will be a more humane and egalitarian system (which may seem that way on paper). I think when you look at countries that had socialist revolutions, unfortunately the opposite is true

I think ultimately people are looking for a system that feels fair, and is fair in implementation

If you want to force equal outcomes rather than equal opportunities, that means you are going to need a strong handed government and significantly less freedom both of individuals and communities

For those of you that supports socialism -- let me ask you a question. My observation is most of the physicians in this group are hard workers and if anything are at the top end of the bell curve. I am pretty productive and a lot of folks on here put me to shame, significantly

For those review who support socialism and DSA types are you comfortable getting paid the same amount regardless of the number of patients you see, and more specifically are you comfortable getting paid the exact same amount as a physician that does half of the work that you do but you has the same title and works for the same hospital/governmental department?

What do you think your behavioral response would be to a system like that? What type of quality, efficiency, and productivity would you end up delivering if we unlinked your ambition to your compensation, now multiply that across an entire society. Basically you could have your entire society looking like the DMV, or worse
Who on here has said that they support the DSA platform? Who are you addressing this to?
 
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Fascists DO censor, rig or weaken elections, persecute political opponents, ignore what their voters actually want, and use or excuse political violence to hold power.

By those measures, the Democratic Party as an institution has been far more fascistic than the GOP or Trump.

Democrats have used the legal system against a leading political rival, including efforts to jail their main presidential opponent. They have backed speech restrictions and platform pressure. They have run antidemocratic nomination processes (skipping a real primary when many Democrats wanted one) and opposed voter ID while the border was wide open. Leading voices have spent years calling opponents fascists, Nazis, and “Hitler 2.0,” a climate in which there have been multiple assassination attempts. There is also a record of street violence from groups like Antifa and of treating political murder as something other than an unambiguous line. On policy, large majorities of Democratic voters wanted the border treated as an emergency; the Biden administration kept it open anyway—widely interpreted by critics as a bid to import future voters and pad census numbers in blue states.

Fascists DO NOT fight for free speech, fight for election integrity, or show restraint about political violence.

Trump has pushed election-security measures, a sovereign border, and freer speech. He could have pursued Hillary Clinton over destruction of evidence and chose not to. He is a populist. The closest alleged “incitement” on January 6 is this language:

“I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.”

“So we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue — I love Pennsylvania Avenue — and we are going to the Capitol. And we are going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.”

Claiming Trump is more fascistic than the Democratic apparatus is not a serious political judgment, and disqualifies you as someone capable of political debate.

If you’re a Democrat, you don’t like these facts, and you don’t like that Donald Trump is president again, that’s on you. Your party should have produced a candidate who could beat him. Instead it put up tired D.C. swamp creatures, lost, and reminded the rest of the country what not to strive for. Next time, primary the people running your party into the ground. And if Democrats are even still capable of it, pick someone who earns the vote on competence—not identity politics.

in the last election. go primary the parasites currently leading your party, and install someone whose actually better than Trump.
With respect, I hate to tell you but you are defeating your own points.

You said that Fascist seeks to 1 censor/weaken elections 2 persecute opponents 3 not listen to voters 4 use political violence to stay in power. I would not say that Trump has done number 4 recently but you would have to ignore Jan 6th. The other three are in his current playbook. Voters did not elect him to make prices higher or start a war in Iran.

You then sit there with a straight face and try to tell us that Democrats do this more than Trump? You then try to diminish Trump's role in Jan 6th.

You are entitled to your opinion and are free to express it but please know that no one on this forum (even the Trump apologists) are going to take any of these words seriously.
 
#1. The data proved the exact point I made. You just don't want to admit it because it makes you uncomfortable. I'm not sure how you can deny this, as I made my point crystal clear multiple times
#2. I don't fear-monger, and there is no reason for me to. I'm not for or against Muslims or Islam. There is good and bad to both, just like everything else. I'm objective and just listing data. You're not. You're emotional because you're Muslim, so you take it personally but whether or not you're insulted is irrelevant.
#3. I haven't made an ad hominem attack against you. I refrained, but I do want to call you a stupid jackass after this post, but I won't. More on that below.
#4. I've admitted multiple times that the risk of being killed is minimal, including in the post you responded to
#5. I don't fear a Muslim takeover because it will never happen. The majority of Western people will do exactly what the Europeans are doing.
#6. There is no goalpost shift. I am asking your opinion on other issues

Now, why do I want to call you a stupid jackass (which I won't do). These are not me selectively choosing data sets. I am using the data sets that the baba guy used and responding to those. Now I had to waste time looking this up for you. Grrrrrrr!!!!
It is very clear if one looks at the total body of your recent posts over the past few months that you strongly support the stances and worldview of the Israeli government and do not support the stances of the Muslims who oppose them or Muslims in general.

Do not take this as calling you Islamophobic. I don't believe that. Everyone looks at a situation and forms opinions. I just wish that you would describe yourself in these terms instead of saying that you are non-aligned on this issue, because you are not.
 
these posts - i wont copy and link because they are all similar - are classic manipulative and obtuse.


noone is advocating socialism and communism.

DSA is not advocating for pure socialism.

but almost everyone on the left is advocating for policies that provide a more equitable society that you right wingers falsely label as "socialism". this is not elimination of work ethic or not rewarding those who work harder, its about lifting up everyone - yes, in part by putting a cap to what the highest can achieve but not limiting anyone's potential or ability to benefit from hard work (hint getting 3% interest on $1,000,000,000 is not hard work.)


no-one on advocating for policies with a government forcing equal pay or equal hours or anything of the sort. they are advocating for a fairer distribution.


please enlighten us - which mainstream politicians call for government takeover of private industry to be owned "by the people" or more extreme, a politician that advocates for abolition of the US Constitution to form a government by the collective.



its a cheap trick used throughout the ages to generate fear and outrage
 
“Mankind are an incorrigible race. Give them but bugbears and idols -- it is all that they ask; the distinctions of right and wrong, of truth and falsehood, of good and evil, are worse than indifferent to them.” (William Hazlitt)

Most of you on here predictably follow the media circus pointing you unerringly at the latest “outraged.” People were getting tired of persecuting Latino immigrants, and it was becoming pretty obvious that they were arresting like 5-10% serious criminals and the rest were just average folks trying to get by. So, onto the Muslims. Let’s all hate on them for a while!
The latest seems to be “AI is scary!” But I really have to wonder how much of the chatter on that is Chinese bot nets trying to get us to slow down, since they certainly won’t. OTOH when you look into the details of these hacking attacks (self-organizing hierarchies of AI agents pursuing hundreds of lines of research and attack to accomplish a goal they set for themselves), and think of all the unsecured internet/connected devices where a rogue program could store copies of itself or steal processing time with no one noticing, its seeming like we’d better just hope that whichever AI escapes has a goal of figuring out the marketing plan to sell the most McChickens, not finding a way to end war permanently.