socialism

[mille125]

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I have found debating with some pointless but he said that the US is essentially by every metric, the US is worse than other 1st world nations and its not close.

Are you agreeing with this?

Lets analyze...

The good....the US has the world's largest GDP and the world's deepest financial markets as well as significantly higher mean household/per capita incomes. The US also has top tier research universities and higher educational systems (at least for now) as well as many high tech industries. Our gigantic economy is a strength but it is undeniable that the US has unequal access to the wealth that it produces and because of what has happened over the last 30 years now has the biggest wealth gap of all G7 nations. This leads to an America and an "other America" Must of what Ducttape says in his stats reflects this other American which 99% of us live in.

Now the bad:

We have the highest maternal mortality of most if not all developed countries
We have the lowest life expectancy of all developed countries
We have the highest rate of preventable chronic disease and drug related deaths of all developed countries
Our rates of violent crime and incarceration are more typical of developing countries instead of developed countries
We have the highest rate of gun-related deaths of any developed countries

Recently we now rank on the lower end of developed countries for democracy (only 55% of Americans believe that Biden won the election and there are likely some deniers on this forum) and women's reproductive health.

So to but it mildly, we have a poor showing in a lot of measures. You, like many, instead of accepting this and trying to change it, hold on to this idea of American exceptionalism and a belief in American superiority over the rest of the world.
To address the poor showing of the United States on a variety of global surveys, many push forward this idea. This is present in both parties but very very prominent in Republicans reflected by the recent initiatives of restoring "patriotic eduction" rooted in American exceptionalism. This creates a tendency to proclaim excellence rather than pursue it (similar to Trump proclaiming victory in Iran on day 4 of the war that is now past day 170),. This peddling of American exceptionalism encourages Americans to maintain a robust sense of national achievement – despite mounting evidence to the contrary.

Yet.....we are rooted in culture wars attacking DEI, taking rights from transgender people, and limiting women's reproductive rights (while ironically makes it more difficult for working moms and their infants to get by) instead of addressing real problems.

 

[mille125]

History shows that socialism and socialist ideas destroys nations. Some on here rather destroy America so they can make themselves feelz better.

Explain how increasing the effective tax rate on the rich over the current 1% number destroys America or is even what you are calling socialism?

You and others speak of the zero taxes that the poor pay but my MA who makes 35K paid 2.5K in payroll tax out of her salary. That is 7 times the percent the the ultra wealthy paid....but yet not taxing them is socialism, correct?

 

[emergentmd]

You lose all credibility when you say this country sucks for the 99% and you include doctors. Saying docs who make 400K+ who live in big homes, nice cars, nice vaca, multimillionaires are so myopic and dramatic that everything else you say hold little value.

Carry on crying how life sucks for you and 99% of Americans.

 

[mille125]

Doctors are also a protected class who have similar fiscal loopholes/protections that the lower class do not have access to. Should we get rid of all of the top 10% loopholes?

IF you disagree, then why are you protecting the top 10% class? For the life of me, I can not understand why you don't just give more of your $$$ to the poor.

Lets get rid of the homestead exemption, property tax deductions, Roth IRAs, IRA tax benefits, Augusta rules, 1099 work deductions, K1 deductions. Lets get rid of estate tax exemption over $1M. Get rid of step up, estate trusts. I mean docs who have over $3M should pay a yearly 5% tax because who needs more than $3M to live a great life? There is no reason to pass on much more than $1M to heirs and give it to the poors that allowed you to live such an extravagant life.

you have to agree that there is no reason for you to have much more than $3M because after that it is just money that can help the bottom 1/3.

A doctor that makes 3 million even if they are taking some of that income in distribution still pays 10-15 times more tax as a percentage of income than the ultrawealthy does even though they make 100s of times more.

Do you not understand this?

 

[mille125]

You lose all credibility when you say this country sucks for the 99% and you include doctors. Saying docs who make 400K+ who live in big homes, nice cars, nice vaca, multimillionaires are so myopic and dramatic that everything else you say hold little value.

Carry on crying how life sucks for you and 99% of American

Did you read what I wrote? Did I say the country sucks? Go back and reread.

Our economy carries us but we lag in a lot of measures. That is what Ducttape is saying and what you miss.

 

[mille125]

You lose all credibility when you say this country sucks for the 99% and you include doctors. Saying docs who make 400K+ who live in big homes, nice cars, nice vaca, multimillionaires are so myopic and dramatic that everything else you say hold little value.

Carry on crying how life sucks for you and 99% of Americans.

You should reflect on those measures.

 

[emergentmd]

I am quite confident I understand finances, tax codes, loopholes as well or better than you my friend.

Retired Docs without income can refinance home/rental loans and take money out tax free. Is this fair?
Docs can use the Augusta Rule and avoid tax on the income. Is this fair?
Docs can have large ROTH IRAs and take income/appreciation tax free. Is this fair?
Docs can deduct all of their equipment, mileage, work clothes. Is this fair?
Docs can set up CBPs. Is this fair?
Docs can deduct a portion of their home as an Office. Is this fair?


So when are you going to give up all of your advantages that the poors do not have? When you start, then I will listen. But it is always easier to take from other's money. I doubt you are forgoing all of the tax benefits you have as a high paying doctor. Tell me I am wrong.

 

[mille125]

I am quite confident I understand finances, tax codes, loopholes as well or better than you my friend.

Retired Docs without income can refinance home/rental loans and take money out tax free. Is this fair?
Docs can use the Augusta Rule and avoid tax on the income. Is this fair?
Docs can have large ROTH IRAs and take income/appreciation tax free. Is this fair?
Docs can deduct all of their equipment, mileage, work clothes. Is this fair?
Docs can set up CBPs. Is this fair?
Docs can deduct a portion of their home as an Office. Is this fair?


So when are you going to give up all of your advantages that the poors do not have? When you start, then I will listen. But it is always easier to take from other's money. I doubt you are forgoing all of the tax benefits you have as a high paying doctor. Tell me I am wrong.

You are wrong if you are talking about me specifically.

I sold a business about 10 years ago. Gave over 2 million to the poor and charity.

I have refinanced my home once but I did not get a one percent tax rate and if I default...guess what....I would have lost my house.

Home equity loans are not just for docs. 5 of my 7 employees have taken out or are currently in the process of taking out home equity loans...

So I dont understand your point here

You mention the Augusta rule? Really. 14 days of home rental....that is peanuts in the grand scheme of things

Roth IRA.....many in the working class have these too?

Equipment, mileage, work clothes.....yeah small business owners.

 

[mille125]

I am quite confident I understand finances, tax codes, loopholes as well or better than you my friend.

Maybe yes. Maybe no. ....but your points don't demonstrate superior knowledge on this subject.

 

[callmeanesthesia]

I am quite confident I understand finances, tax codes, loopholes as well or better than you my friend.

Retired Docs without income can refinance home/rental loans and take money out tax free. Is this fair?
Docs can use the Augusta Rule and avoid tax on the income. Is this fair?
Docs can have large ROTH IRAs and take income/appreciation tax free. Is this fair?
Docs can deduct all of their equipment, mileage, work clothes. Is this fair?
Docs can set up CBPs. Is this fair?
Docs can deduct a portion of their home as an Office. Is this fair?


So when are you going to give up all of your advantages that the poors do not have? When you start, then I will listen. But it is always easier to take from other's money. I doubt you are forgoing all of the tax benefits you have as a high paying doctor. Tell me I am wrong.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The only loophole we really need to close is the step up basis.

But it seems like you’re being deliberately obtuse about Millie’s point and pulling out straw man arguments.

 

[emergentmd]

I understand his point, but cherry-picking the ultra-rich while not critically applying the same criteria to the top 10% seems hypocritical.

He applies the payroll tax on poor Mary but do not give the same multi million Musk pays in payroll taxes? Why do socialist always use the ultra rich paying 1% when they ignore the corporate income tax, state income/franchise tax, payroll tax, property tax, sales tax, excise/industry specific tax that billionaire pay. If he owns the business, his billion dollar businesses pays much more than the shock value 1%.

Lets take Elon, who owns 20% of Tesla. 2025 Tesla paid in taxes 1.2Billion in overall taxes. Should we not give elon 20% of that tax bill to be fair?
Michael Dell owns 40% of Dell Tech and for 2025 they paid 1.3B in taxes. So in reality, didn't Dell pay 544Mil in taxes?

 

[mille125]

I understand his point, but cherry-picking the ultra-rich while not critically applying the same criteria to the top 10% seems hypocritical.

He applies the payroll tax on poor Mary but do not give the same multi million Musk pays in payroll taxes? Why do socialist always use the ultra rich paying 1% when they ignore the corporate income tax, state income/franchise tax, payroll tax, property tax, sales tax, excise/industry specific tax that billionaire pay. If he owns the business, his billion dollar businesses pays much more than the shock value 1%.

Lets take Elon, who owns 20% of Tesla. 2025 Tesla paid in taxes 1.2Billion in overall taxes. Should we not give elon 20% of that tax bill to be fair?
Michael Dell owns 40% of Dell Tech and for 2025 they paid 1.3B in taxes. So in reality, didn't Dell pay 544Mil in taxes?

Interesting you use Elon but you fail to speak of the gigantic benefits that he gets.

His companies have received at least $38 billion in government contracts, loans, subsidies, and tax credits over the past two decades. This public funding played a crucial role in scaling companies like Tesla and SpaceX into multi-billion-dollar market giants. This is not different from the other ultra wealthy. The public funds that internet and then Bezos gets to use it. The public funds research in our top universities and then private companies get patents and charge us, the public, again in ever higher drug pricing fees. It goes around and around.

You and I have worked hard but imagine that you open a business and the government guarantees that you see at many patients as you want at very high rates that you dont have to bid for. They then guarantee that you don't fail with bailouts if needed. They give you tax credits and subsidies if you need it. They even do all of this research on a state of the art medical device and then allow you to use it and patent it and charge more.

Would you succeed or fail?

 

[hyperalgesia]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The only loophole we really need to close is the step up basis.

That might make you happy but do you really think it's gonna weaken the socialist movement?

I agree it should be closed. There's no need to tax unrealized gains but I don't see the point in wiping out capital gains for trust fund kids.

I'm with you on this unless someone has a good argument. Close it.

 

[clubdeac]

Explain how increasing the effective tax rate on the rich over the current 1% number destroys America or is even what you are calling socialism?

You and others speak of the zero taxes that the poor pay but my MA who makes 35K paid 2.5K in payroll tax out of her salary. That is 7 times the percent the the ultra wealthy paid....but yet not taxing them is socialism, correct?

Go watch the video again. She points out this false and repeated talking point that the rich pay only 1%. Why do you and duct keep repeating this lie? Just stop already, no one believes you anymore

 

[Ducttape]

Jessica Reidl is brilliant and has debunked most all of your talking points

What specifically in this video or article do you think is factually incorrect bc it disproves most all of your points

Here's what would happen if we seized all the wealth from America's 800 billionaires

Don't comfort yourself with wishful thinking that millionaires and billionaires could take the entire burden of the deficit off our hands.

reason.com

this is a logical fallacy because she is using this argument to seize all the wealth, whereas pretty much every democrat socialist is looking for the ultra wealthy to pay a greater share than they currently do, based on how much they own.

Again you are acting like assessing the ultra rich with a tax that makes them pay a fair share is "stealing"

For the life of me, I don't understand why you are falling over yourself to protect this class that making 100 times as much as you while you pay likely greater than 30% tax (and possible additional amounts to your state and local precincts) and they pay less than 1 percent tax.

Why on earth are you defending this as fair?

its more like 1000 times as much.

History shows that socialism and socialist ideas destroys nations. Some on here rather destroy America so they can make themselves feelz better.

who said we wanted your definition of socialism?

Doctors are also a protected class who have similar fiscal loopholes/protections that the lower class do not have access to. Should we get rid of all of the top 10% loopholes?

IF you disagree, then why are you protecting the top 10% class? For the life of me, I can not understand why you don't just give more of your $$$ to the poor.

Lets get rid of the homestead exemption, property tax deductions, Roth IRAs, IRA tax benefits, Augusta rules, 1099 work deductions, K1 deductions. Lets get rid of estate tax exemption over $1M. Get rid of step up, estate trusts. I mean docs who have over $3M should pay a yearly 5% tax because who needs more than $3M to live a great life? There is no reason to pass on much more than $1M to heirs and give it to the poors that allowed you to live such an extravagant life.

you have to agree that there is no reason for you to have much more than $3M because after that it is just money that can help the bottom 1/3.

no they arent. your job or position in society by itself gives no protection. the IRS doesnt look at your taxes and look at your job and say "okay, this guy gets a break."

and again you post another logical fallacy "why dont you give more" is similar to "why dont you leave". it deflects from the true issue by attempting to cast blame on the other party and actions such as leaving or paying more do nothing to rectify the underlying societal problem.



finally, you continue to be completely deluded.

what is being discussed is fair taxation of the ultra rich, not anyone in the bottom 99% of America.


$3 mil is the cut off for the top 5%. $11 million for the top 1%.

your $3 million would be 0.001% of the net worth of the 0.5% that make up the ultra rich.

You are not part of the ultra rich. you will never be part of the ultra rich. and they are who arent paying anywhere near the 30% that 99% of America are paying in taxes.

 

[mille125]

Go watch the video again. She points out this false and repeated talking point that the rich pay only 1%. Why do you and duct keep repeating this lie? Just stop already, no one believes you anymore

I saw it and I read it. I think that you need to watch it again because you seemed to miss her point completely. I have to ask you if you watched it all the way through.

Her main point is that taxing the rich alone doesnt fix the deficit. I don't disagree with that but the point is in interesting one. If I owe you $100000 and someone owes me $5000 and I say that I don't need to collect the $5000 because it does not pay off the $100000, you would look at me like I was crazy. This is essentially what she is saying.

She never says that the rich are paying their share as you and others are implying. She is saying that taxing the rich alone wont solve our deficit problem. She also never says that the effective tax rate of the ultra rich is less than 1% like we have been saying. She simply says that the majority of the taxes are paid by this class.

She also says that Europe pays more tax than us. Again that is true but guess what they also get many many more benefits on that money especially concerning healthcare and college expenses. Near the end she actually implies that the rich SHOULD be taxed more and a lot of their loopholes SHOULD be closed. How is this incongruent with what I am saying? She is saying the exact thing as me but is just adding the taxing the rich doesn't cure our deficit issues by itself.

Look at it again. I expect you to not comment on any of this and just remain silent as usual because again....like many other times....you are completely wrong and are taking up an undefensible position.

 

[Ducttape]

I am quite confident I understand finances, tax codes, loopholes as well or better than you my friend.

Retired Docs without income can refinance home/rental loans and take money out tax free. Is this fair?
Docs can use the Augusta Rule and avoid tax on the income. Is this fair?
Docs can have large ROTH IRAs and take income/appreciation tax free. Is this fair?
Docs can deduct all of their equipment, mileage, work clothes. Is this fair?
Docs can set up CBPs. Is this fair?
Docs can deduct a portion of their home as an Office. Is this fair?


So when are you going to give up all of your advantages that the poors do not have? When you start, then I will listen. But it is always easier to take from other's money. I doubt you are forgoing all of the tax benefits you have as a high paying doctor. Tell me I am wrong.

this is such poor logic.


so these mechanisms you mention are all available to the poor who manage to make it to higher income brackets.

the reason they dont have access to these tax codes is purely because their income is so low they dont have enough money to use them.

its not because they cant use them its because they dont have any money in the first place to use them.



and these are not the tax loopholes that the ultra-wealthy are using, and they are available to each and every american if they make enough money. we are talking about the special mechanisms they have of not paying any taxes on their wealth.


as simply as possible - most of the billionaire and trillionaire wealth comes as unrealized capital gains for which they do not pay taxes unless they sell, and they never sell because they borrow against that wealth to fund their lives until they die, when their heirs get to pay stepped up capital gains tax on the billions they inherit.

 

[emergentmd]

The bottom 1/3 whines that the top 2/3 have all the advantage and they nothing.
The middle class whines that the upper 1/3 have all the advantages and they get scraps.
Some top 10% on here whines that the upper 1% have all the advantages and they are just like the bottom 2/3.
The top 1% takes most of the risk, creates most of the jobs, gives the most back to the economy, create wealth for others, supports other businesses, pays large amounts of corporate taxes. The don't whine and continues to work hard to build up their companies.

Envy sucks

 

[mille125]

The bottom 1/3 whines that the top 2/3 have all the advantage and they nothing.
The middle class whines that the upper 1/3 have all the advantages and they get scraps.
Some top 10% on here whines that the upper 1% have all the advantages and they are just like the bottom 2/3.
The top 1% takes most of the risk, creates most of the jobs, gives the most back to the economy, create wealth for others, supports other businesses, pays large amounts of corporate taxes. The don't whine and continues to work hard to build up their companies.

Envy sucks

Its comical that you think that they pay essentially nothing compared to their income is totally ok.

Their brainwashing machine is very very powerful and can even ensnare very smart, intelligent people as shown here.

 

[emergentmd]

Its comical that you think that they pay essentially nothing compared to their income is totally ok.

Their brainwashing machine is very very powerful and can even ensnare very smart, intelligent people as shown here.

You can't have it both ways.

You cry that they are billionaires which typically is mostly in their businesses.
Their business pays a good amount of taxes
You cherry pick that they do not pay any taxes b/c they do not have personal income and throw out the 1% number but ignore the corporate tax paid.
So on one hand you give them credit for their NW using their business valuation. On the other hand you don't give them credit for the business paying tax.

There is a reason socialism fail and why you do not think past the..... Lets tax them more b/c they pay no taxes. Anger, envy, feelz just clouds the left mind and forget to use logic.

Those with anger and envy just stays in their same position in life. Those with respect and admiration put in the work to get where they want.

I grew up 1st gen poor as dirt. I saw those around me who were well off. I was never envious but had great admiration.

History has told us which group does better. Beat your head if you want to stay in the anger/envy stage. I rarely have seen someone envious succeed in life. I am stepping out of this discussion b/c it does not good when people argue with anger/envy.

 

[mille125]

You can't have it both ways.

You cry that they are billionaires which typically is mostly in their businesses.
Their business pays a good amount of taxes
You cherry pick that they do not pay any taxes b/c they do not have personal income and throw out the 1% number but ignore the corporate tax paid.
So on one hand you give them credit for their NW using their business valuation. On the other hand you don't give them credit for the business paying tax.

There is a reason socialism fail and why you do not think past the..... Lets tax them more b/c they pay no taxes. Anger, envy, feelz just clouds the left mind and forget to use logic.

Those with anger and envy just stays in their same position in life. Those with respect and admiration put in the work to get where they want.

I grew up 1st gen poor as dirt. I saw those around me who were well off. I was never envious but had great admiration.

History has told us which group does better. Beat your head if you want to stay in the anger/envy stage. I rarely have seen someone envious succeed in life. I am stepping out of this discussion b/c it does not good when people argue with anger/envy.

Its a free country. You can leave the conversation if you choose but dont pretend it is because anyone else is angry or envious. You are surprisingly pulling the same "tools" that the conservative right wing ecosystem does when facts dont support and argument.

If I have to pay 30%, or 35%, or 39% on my income but someone who makes 1000 times more pays 1%, that isn't right. Its as simple as that. I don't begrudge them of making whatever they do but you should note that for most including your president, it is inherited. Maybe you feel inherited is earned or not but that is where the amazing wealth comes from in the vast majority of cases. Still, I dont begrudge them but they need to pay comparable taxes just like the rest of us. If they did that, this whole discussion would be moot.

 

[Ducttape]

but many big businesses are not paying their taxes.

the corporate tax rate was significantly reduced in the first trump administration at 21% - one of the reasons for the ballooning fed deficit.

many corporations use right offs.


SpaceX seems to have paid 0 in taxes last year. Tesla paid 0.

Amazon paid zero on $11.2 billion in profits.

Yum Brands paid 0.

Microsoft paid 2.24% in taxes on $100 billion.

Exxon paid 8.6% in taxes in 2025.


yes, some corporations have paid taxes.

apple paid 17.6%. admirable i guess.

Walmart paid 24.5%. surprising given that walmart has a significant percentage of their payroll on SNAP and medicaid (38% of the payroll)

At Least 88 Profitable U.S. Corporations Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2025

At least 88 of the largest corporations in America paid $0 in federal income tax for 2025. Corporate tax avoidance has increased at least in part due to President Trump's “One Big Beautiful Bill Act” and the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.

itep.org

even when they do pay, it is almost always less than what the usual middle class american pays. any single filer making over $48,475 is paying more in taxes than these corporations.

 

[mille125]

but many big businesses are not paying their taxes.

the corporate tax rate was significantly reduced in the first trump administration at 21% - one of the reasons for the ballooning fed deficit.

many corporations use right offs.


SpaceX seems to have paid 0 in taxes last year. Tesla paid 0.

Amazon paid zero on $11.2 billion in profits.

Yum Brands paid 0.

Microsoft paid 2.24% in taxes on $100 billion.

Exxon paid 8.6% in taxes in 2025.


yes, some corporations have paid taxes.

apple paid 17.6%. admirable i guess.

Walmart paid 24.5%. surprising given that walmart has a significant percentage of their payroll on SNAP and medicaid (38% of the payroll)

At Least 88 Profitable U.S. Corporations Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2025

At least 88 of the largest corporations in America paid $0 in federal income tax for 2025. Corporate tax avoidance has increased at least in part due to President Trump's “One Big Beautiful Bill Act” and the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.

itep.org

even when they do pay, it is almost always less than what the usual middle class american pays. any single filer making over $48,475 is paying more in taxes than these corporations.

He doesnt get that...

So taking the Walmart example of 24.5%. Should the Walton family get credit for that or should they be expected to be taxes on their own personal finances like the rest of us?

 

[Ducttape]

owners do not pay taxes except in one situation.

double jeopardy?

not if one is the sole owner or LLC or S corp.


only in a C corp, according to this site, the company pays taxes on their earnings, and the business owner pays income tax on the dividends.

Do Business Owners Get Taxed Twice? Here’s the Truth Behind the Myth - Hocheiser CPA

If you’re a small business owner, especially someone with an LLC or sole proprietorship, you’ve probably asked this at least once: “Am I getting taxed twice when I take money out…

www.hocheisercpa.com

 

[Pain Applicant1]

I picked four names only so folks could recognize them but you probably missed where I and others mentioned that 50% of ALL US fortune 500 companies where founded or run by immigrants. Let that sink in and then come back.

No need to sink in. I already told you there's good and bad to it. This in no way justifies our current immigration system. IOW, you can have one and not the other.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

United States of America.

South Africa.

(edit. at that moment, i got bored of having to list the hundreds of nations where white europeans came and colonized the local populace. the Americas from North America to Latin America (its called Latin America, for heavens sake), to Southern Americas. All of Africa. Central Asia such as India. South Asia. Oceania.)


i see how you have managed to deflect from the conversation and i am sorry to have missed the logical fallacy.

its not the loan rate that is the major concern. it is the fact that wealthy are not paying taxes on their earnings and have an avenue of approach to live off of those earnings without having to pay any share of taxes, by borrowing off of these earnings and then deferring tax payments until they have died, and their heirs pay significantly less in taxes than would have happened if they had been paid during the billionaire's lifetime.


to finish - they are getting sub 1% loans. the chatGPT article clearly states that they are. and again, the issue is that they are garnering increasing wealth in means that the rest of the country does not and are not contributing in spite of their mass accumulation.

and yes, step up basis should not apply to anyone. not the billionaire class, not the middle class that you are destroying.

You cannot judge people in the past by today's standards. Should we go full circle and talk about what the local populace of those colonized did to other people?

 

[Pain Applicant1]

America attracts the best and brightest in science, industry, business, etc.

You yourself stated earlier in the thread that immigrants have a lower rate of violent crime than US citizens. So while overall crime rate will increase with any population increase, crime per capita is less. I would guess immigration has overall been more than their proportion of economic gain. Quick Google search says 40% of Fortune 500 companies founded by immigrants or their children.

Of course we want to attract the best and brightest and leave out the criminals - that's policy.

Kindly go back and reread my post so you're not arguing to a wall. Here, I'll make it easy for you:

It's no better than the opposite argument of ceasing immigration completely because of the following immigrants who have committed violent crimes

 

[mille125]

No need to sink in. I already told you there's good and bad to it. This in no way justifies our current immigration system. IOW, you can have one and not the other.

What choice doesn't have both good or bad? You arent uncovering any revelations here. Who is justifiying the current immigration system?

 

[Pain Applicant1]

What choice doesn't have both good or bad? You arent uncovering any revelations here. Who is justifiying the current immigration system?

Not sure, just trying to waste time while I'm in the office seeing patients. Maybe you are? Maybe not.

 

[lobelsteve]

 

[buddababa]

View attachment 423399

lol @ this talking point. there is plenty of unbiased history of why this is. i mean just look at iran, plenty of jews living there who were upset when israel bombed their synagogue. if they wanted to leave, they would've

mass media has been biased and has a specific agenda since the advent of "news/television"

also those muslims/christians living in israel, they face institutionalized discrimination

Discrimination Against Palestinian Citizens of Israel

Palestinian citizens of Israel face systemic discrimination, from land rights to education, under laws and policies designed to privilege Jewish citizens.

imeu.org

 

[Pain Applicant1]

lol @ this talking point. there is plenty of unbiased history of why this is. i mean just look at iran, plenty of jews living there who were upset when israel bombed their synagogue. if they wanted to leave, they would've

mass media has been biased and has a specific agenda since the advent of "news/television"

also those muslims/christians living in israel, they face institutionalized discrimination

Discrimination Against Palestinian Citizens of Israel

Palestinian citizens of Israel face systemic discrimination, from land rights to education, under laws and policies designed to privilege Jewish citizens.

imeu.org

Lot of interesting points of discussion in your post.

Just out of curiosity, how easy is it for Iranian Jews to leave Iran in your opinion? Keep in mind many have been in Iran for thousands of year and long before Persia became Islamic. Can they very easily just leave to Israel? What happens if they show anything other than outrage at Israel? what would happen to them?

There's also plenty of history of why there are only a handful of Jews left throughout the Islamic world. Keep in mind many of them were also there long before Islam came to be.

Institutional discrimination, lol? Iranian Jews are free to leave, lol? You got it reversed. The Israeli Arabs are free to leave Israel if they want, yet they don't. Why not? Iranian Jews, umm, not so easy to leave and outright illegal to migrate to Israel.

Bottom line, much much better to be a muslim in Israel than a Jew in Iran or any Muslim country for that matter. Absolutely no comparison.

 

[Ducttape]

You cannot judge people in the past by today's standards. Should we go full circle and talk about what the local populace of those colonized did to other people?

okay sure.

tell me that Native Americans have reclaimed their lands, stolen them from white americans, who stole them first. did native americans attack and imprison white americans?

tell me that aborigines in Australia are subjecting australians to systemic injustice and inequality. did aborigines attack and imprison white australians?

tell me that black south africans are equal to white south africans economically and politically now?


maybe you are thinking of south african farm attacks. a piece generated by right wing movement to generate anger.

you know that more black farmers were attacked and killed than white? that these attacks average roughly 30 deaths a year? (as a comparison, there were 1448 gun deaths including 578 homicides in Tenn during 2025).

 

[Pain Applicant1]

okay sure.

tell me that Native Americans have reclaimed their lands, stolen them from white americans, who stole them first. did native americans attack and imprison white americans?

tell me that aborigines in Australia are subjecting australians to systemic injustice and inequality. did aborigines attack and imprison white australians?

tell me that black south africans are equal to white south africans economically and politically now?


maybe you are thinking of south african farm attacks. a piece generated by right wing movement to generate anger.

you know that more black farmers were attacked and killed than white? that these attacks average roughly 30 deaths a year? (as a comparison, there were 1448 gun deaths including 578 homicides in Tenn during 2025).

Yes, they did attack and imprison white Americans. In fact, they took them as slaves. Plenty of first hand account books on this subject. So, duh, you're a dumb ass, lol!

More importantly, what did natives do to each other? They warred with each other. They murdered each other. They stole land and conquered each other. They took their prisoners as slaves. They sacrificed their captives' children to their Gods. The list goes on and on. This was the way of the world back then.

In your opinion, which you'll refuse to answer because you either don't know the answer or you don't want to admit it (probably a combo of both), how did Cortes' men of a couple of thousand destroy an Azetc empire of a few million?

 

[lobelsteve]

lol @ this talking point. there is plenty of unbiased history of why this is. i mean just look at iran, plenty of jews living there who were upset when israel bombed their synagogue. if they wanted to leave, they would've

mass media has been biased and has a specific agenda since the advent of "news/television"

also those muslims/christians living in israel, they face institutionalized discrimination

Discrimination Against Palestinian Citizens of Israel

Palestinian citizens of Israel face systemic discrimination, from land rights to education, under laws and policies designed to privilege Jewish citizens.

imeu.org

You sound like a terrorist sympathizer.

Facts & Figures – Justice For Jews from Arab Countries

justiceforjews.com

 

[bubaghanush]

Kindly go back and reread my post so you're not arguing to a wall. Here, I'll make it easy for you:

It's no better than the opposite argument of ceasing immigration completely because of the following immigrants who have committed violent crimes

The point isn't listing individual success stories versus crime stories. In aggregate, immigrants bring more economic benefit per capita but less crime per capita. So no, your opposite argument doesn't make sense.

 

[lobelsteve]

You sound like a terrorist sympathizer.

Facts & Figures – Justice For Jews from Arab Countries

justiceforjews.com

 

[bubaghanush]

View attachment 423399

You sound like a terrorist sympathizer.

Facts & Figures – Justice For Jews from Arab Countries

justiceforjews.com

Sounds like you don't know how to think for yourself but post whatever you see on your right-wing social media.

Jews historically lived in better conditions under Islamic rule than Christian rule for most of history, until modern day creation of Israel. Two wrongs don't make a right. Expelling Jews from Arab lands in 1948 was wrong, expelling Arabs from their homeland was wrong, and modern day Israel blowing up tens of thousands of children is wrong.

Even Mike Huckabee, extreme pro-Israeli evalengical Christian, is concerned:

Mike Huckabee condemns settler violence, says Iran could face renewed strikes | The Jerusalem Post

Huckabee further discussed the issues of Israel's elections and the war in Gaza, emphasizing his support for Israel's right to defend itself.

www.jpost.com

 

[mille125]

So now we have IDS and TDS. Are they part of the same entity or are they distinct? How does the DSM classify it? Is TDS simply saying anything that disagrees with Trump for any reason? Is IDS simply criticizing the Israel govt for any reason? Or is it more specialized than that?

Is there a likewise Israel/ Trump inappropriately aspiration syndrome (IIAS) or (TIAS)? How do you treat those entities? It sure isnt with the facts.

 

[clubdeac]

Its a free country. You can leave the conversation if you choose but dont pretend it is because anyone else is angry or envious. You are surprisingly pulling the same "tools" that the conservative right wing ecosystem does when facts dont support and argument.

If I have to pay 30%, or 35%, or 39% on my income but someone who makes 1000 times more pays 1%, that isn't right. Its as simple as that. I don't begrudge them of making whatever they do but you should note that for most including your president, it is inherited. Maybe you feel inherited is earned or not but that is where the amazing wealth comes from in the vast majority of cases. Still, I dont begrudge them but they need to pay comparable taxes just like the rest of us. If they did that, this whole discussion would be moot.

Dude you keep repeating these lies. No one is paying 1% just stop already. And the biggest study of millionaires to date showed that the vast majority were self made, not inherited. So just stop. You sound ridiculous and uneducated

 

[Pain Applicant1]

The point isn't listing individual success stories versus crime stories. In aggregate, immigrants bring more economic benefit per capita but less crime per capita. So no, your opposite argument doesn't make sense.

Licehenstein, luxemberg (spelling??) Wealthiest in the world. Very white. Nordics, Qatar, Japan, S Korea --> very wealthy, very not diverse
Some African countries are some of the most ethnically diverse and are the poorest so there's more at play here.

It can be debated but not important either way. You're basing your argument on the assumption that economics is the most important thing leading to strong countries and happiness.

A sense of cohesion, community, trust, belonging, togetherness, camaraderie, etc. tend to be highly valued by humans and diversity does not lead to this. This has been well documented.

I'll ask again, if diversity is such a strength, why don't most countries want it? Egypt shoots to kill African migrants. Pakistanis toss out the Afghans. UAE doesn't allow all the laborers who make it wealthy to become citizens, etc. South African blacks are kicking out Malawis, et al. For the most part, it is only the west, as in white countries, that are forced to diversify their countries. And forced it is. That's why language such as bigot, racist, nazi, white nationalist, etc became weaponized.

Why is there no pressure on Qatar to accept immigrants, jews, buddhists, christians, homosexuality, whatever - anything other than Islam?

 

[Pain Applicant1]

Sounds like you don't know how to think for yourself but post whatever you see on your right-wing social media.

Jews historically lived in better conditions under Islamic rule than Christian rule for most of history, until modern day creation of Israel. Two wrongs don't make a right. Expelling Jews from Arab lands in 1948 was wrong, expelling Arabs from their homeland was wrong, and modern day Israel blowing up tens of thousands of children is wrong.

Even Mike Huckabee, extreme pro-Israeli evalengical Christian, is concerned:

Mike Huckabee condemns settler violence, says Iran could face renewed strikes | The Jerusalem Post

Huckabee further discussed the issues of Israel's elections and the war in Gaza, emphasizing his support for Israel's right to defend itself.

www.jpost.com

This is correct for the most part.

Just to add: if it weren't for Islam, there's a chance Judaism would have been destroyed. If not destroyed, it likely would have looked a lot different than it does today.

Muslims weren't always good to the Jews and often treated them as second-class citizens, but Jews also flourished under Islam. The Ottomans even took in Jews when Europe inquisized (my word) them.

What makes this fighting even more ridiculous is that both groups believe in the same god. Mohammed of course is a prophet, not god, and the god he refers to, Allah, is the exact same God that the Jews believe in. Christians, too, for that matter, for the most part, just with a twist.

And even more ridiculous, most jews and palestinians descend, to a substantial degree, from the same Canaanite people. If you dress them the same and put them next to each other, it will be difficult to distinguish one from the other in many instances.

 

[bubaghanush]

Licehenstein, luxemberg (spelling??) Wealthiest in the world. Very white. Nordics, Qatar, Japan, S Korea --> very wealthy, very not diverse
Some African countries are some of the most ethnically diverse and are the poorest so there's more at play here.

It can be debated but not important either way. You're basing your argument on the assumption that economics is the most important thing leading to strong countries and happiness.

A sense of cohesion, community, trust, belonging, togetherness, camaraderie, etc. tend to be highly valued by humans and diversity does not lead to this. This has been well documented.

I'll ask again, if diversity is such a strength, why don't most countries want it? Egypt shoots to kill African migrants. Pakistanis toss out the Afghans. UAE doesn't allow all the laborers who make it wealthy to become citizens, etc. South African blacks are kicking out Malawis, et al. For the most part, it is only the west, as in white countries, that are forced to diversify their countries. And forced it is. That's why language such as bigot, racist, nazi, white nationalist, etc became weaponized.

Why is there no pressure on Qatar to accept immigrants, jews, buddhists, christians, homosexuality, whatever - anything other than Islam?

I responded referring to the US and the economic benefit of immigration when we attract the best and brightest.

Other countries have their own problems, I'm sure there are many reasons. Many of those countries are dictatorships and don't allow freedom of political expression. I consider myself lucky to have been born and living in the US. Immigration, like anything else needs good policy to be a net benefit for the country.

 

[lobelsteve]

Sounds like you don't know how to think for yourself but post whatever you see on your right-wing social media.

Jews historically lived in better conditions under Islamic rule than Christian rule for most of history, until modern day creation of Israel. Two wrongs don't make a right. Expelling Jews from Arab lands in 1948 was wrong, expelling Arabs from their homeland was wrong, and modern day Israel blowing up tens of thousands of children is wrong.

Even Mike Huckabee, extreme pro-Israeli evalengical Christian, is concerned:

Mike Huckabee condemns settler violence, says Iran could face renewed strikes | The Jerusalem Post

Huckabee further discussed the issues of Israel's elections and the war in Gaza, emphasizing his support for Israel's right to defend itself.

www.jpost.com

Sounds like do not know how to think.

Islam is intolerant. Run by radicals. But not called out by the masses. If you are part of a group that believes jews don’t have a right to exist then you are the problem.

 

[lobelsteve]

lol @ this talking point. there is plenty of unbiased history of why this is. i mean just look at iran, plenty of jews living there who were upset when israel bombed their synagogue. if they wanted to leave, they would've

mass media has been biased and has a specific agenda since the advent of "news/television"

also those muslims/christians living in israel, they face institutionalized discrimination

Discrimination Against Palestinian Citizens of Israel

Palestinian citizens of Israel face systemic discrimination, from land rights to education, under laws and policies designed to privilege Jewish citizens.

imeu.org

 

[bubaghanush]

Sounds like do not know how to think.

Islam is intolerant. Run by radicals. But not called out by the masses. If you are part of a group that believes jews don’t have a right to exist then you are the problem.

Broad generalizations about 2 billion people is not an argument.

Criticism of Israel and AIPAC isn't antisemitic. This tactic to silence critics is falling out of favor on both sides of the aisle. I don't want my tax dollars to blow up tens of thousands of children and get us suckered into war on Netanyahu's behalf.

 

[mille125]

Dude you keep repeating these lies. No one is paying 1% just stop already. And the biggest study of millionaires to date showed that the vast majority were self made, not inherited. So just stop. You sound ridiculous and uneducated

Jeff Bezos from 2014-2018 had an overall wealth growth of 99 billion and paid 973 million in taxes. Lets do an exercise. Do this math: 973 million/99 billion times 100 percent. What do you get Mr. educated?

He applied for a received the child tax credit in 2011 for $1000 for each of his 4 kids. Makes sense, huh?

 

[mille125]

Dude you keep repeating these lies. No one is paying 1% just stop already. And the biggest study of millionaires to date showed that the vast majority were self made, not inherited. So just stop. You sound ridiculous and uneducated

You are right though. A lot of the ultra risk are "self made" even though the vast majority do start with significant wealth. It makes interesting questions.

Whatever you think of Musk, the man is obviously clever and talented there is no denying this. But there are plenty of clever and talented people born into circumstances that ensure they’ll never realize their potential. There is near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. Would Musk have reached a trillion dollars if he had been born poor and Black instead of rich and white in apartheid in South Africa?

 

[hyperalgesia]

You are right though. A lot of the ultra risk are "self made" even though the vast majority do start with significant wealth. It makes interesting questions.

Whatever you think of Musk, the man is obviously clever and talented there is no denying this. But there are plenty of clever and talented people born into circumstances that ensure they’ll never realize their potential. There is near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. Would Musk have reached a trillion dollars if he had been born poor and Black instead of rich and white in apartheid in South Africa?

Your way of thinking is what led to every failed communist and socialist state that exists now or that ever was.

 

[clubdeac]

Jeff Bezos from 2014-2018 had an overall wealth growth of 99 billion and paid 973 million in taxes. Lets do an exercise. Do this math: 973 million/99 billion times 100 percent. What do you get Mr. educated?

He applied for a received the child tax credit in 2011 for $1000 for each of his 4 kids. Makes sense, huh?

If you watched the video Jessica explains this error. Go rewatch it. You’ll get it eventually