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Is there a reason you want to do residency at a T20? UIC seems to be a good school and matches well. However, you are only just going to start undergrad. You have a lot of time to figure these things out. How far UIC will get you is up to you.
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@ihoop24 Thank you so much for replying!
The reason for matching to a T20 is just the breadth of opportunities there - and I think for a career and getting into a specialty, methinks having a solid school reputation would be invaluable; I am still very young and haven't dipped my feet into even an undergraduate yet as you say haha so please excuse any ignorance/misconception I might have (and do call me out on them).
But in all honesty, I was asking the question as I'm afraid that if I do go to UICOM, I might have difficulty getting into a top residency program compared to someone that went to, say Case Western or WashU Medical school. Of course, the name brand is there for those schools but was wondering if it's still feasible.
From my understanding, school ranking DOES matter for residency programs and matching, and my fear was UICOM wouldn't be "prestigious" enough for those tippy-top residency programs and then fellowships.
The reason for matching to a T20 is just the breadth of opportunities there - and I think for a career and getting into a specialty, methinks having a solid school reputation would be invaluable; I am still very young and haven't dipped my feet into even an undergraduate yet as you say haha so please excuse any ignorance/misconception I might have (and do call me out on them).
But in all honesty, I was asking the question as I'm afraid that if I do go to UICOM, I might have difficulty getting into a top residency program compared to someone that went to, say Case Western or WashU Medical school. Of course, the name brand is there for those schools but was wondering if it's still feasible.
From my understanding, school ranking DOES matter for residency programs and matching, and my fear was UICOM wouldn't be "prestigious" enough for those tippy-top residency programs and then fellowships.
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you can also turn down the offer and gun for T20 medical school after college and see the outcome.
the race is real so if you have an opportunity take it and run with it. At the end of the day prestige wont be taking care of patients its knowledge.
the race is real so if you have an opportunity take it and run with it. At the end of the day prestige wont be taking care of patients its knowledge.
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With the BS/MD program, I still have the complete freedom to apply to other medical schools. But your last point is very true and I agree with! I might also be overthinking the situation.
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I believe UICOM will train you well , you have to ace your board scores and you can still end up in top residency of your choice.
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Looks like University of Illinois has a very strong match list. Lots of students matched into the specialties you're interested in. I'd take the bird in the hand. If you're considering a BS/MD program, I assume you're still in high school. I wouldn't worry too much about matching to a T20 residency just yet.
chicago.medicine.uic.edu
Match Day | College of Medicine Chicago | University of Illinois College of Medicine
University of Illinois College of Medicine Chicago Match results. Discover the diverse range of institutions where our MD students have successfully matched into their respective residency programs.
chicago.medicine.uic.edu
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It's not clear why you are so hung up on prestige for residency and not for med school, but I'll guess it's because of the guarantee, not because you are in love with the "biggest MD school in the nation." If prestige doesn't matter for med school it shouldn't matter for residency either. On the other hand, why would you think T20 residencies will provide an enormous breadth of opportunities while med schools won't? They will!! After all, there is probably a reason schools like Harvard, Stanford and Penn don't offer BS/MD programs!
What you get out of your career will be directly related to what you put in, regardless of where you go, and I'm sure there are plenty of very successful "orthopedic, general, or cardiothoracic surgeons" who didn't go to T20 med schools or residencies, but sure, top residencies lead to more opportunities. So do top med schools. Going to UICOM is not the same as WashU or Case, but you already knew that.
On the other hand, if you can freely apply out without losing your guarantee, why are you even posting? Your decision now is not whether to go to UICOM or WashU COM. Your decision now is whether to take full rides without guarantees or a guarantee with the ability to apply out later. In any event, you don't need validation from us, and it's pretty obvious which way you are leaning, which is perfectly fine. Only you and your family know whether the guarantee is worth the scholarship you would be giving up. If UI is also a full ride, then the only thing you would be sacrificing is a private liberal arts education. Do whatever feels right to you. There is no one right answer that applies to everyone. Good luck!!!
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Thank you so much, everyone! So it seems like in order to get into a top residency program, I would need to get into a top medical school. I think I might as well take the BS/MD program with UICOM since I can apply out if I perform extremely well on the MCAT!
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No, no, no -- you are taking the wrong thing away from the advice you are getting here!!!! You don't need a top medical school for a top residency, and you don't need a top residency for a competitive specialty any more than you are going to need a top UG to go to a top medical school.
All of those things MIGHT make the path somewhat easier, due to the people you will meet, the opportunities you will have, and the reputations of the programs. But none of this is necessary, and talented people create opportunities for themselves all the time at all levels of programs. After all, if what you are thinking was true, you'd be wasting your time applying out from UI, since it's not a "top" UG!!!
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Haha see what I mean about my naiveness! Got it and that does make me feel a lot better about pursuing the bs/md program.
At the moment, I'm weighing GPPA program against Bowdoin College. College Confidential parwnts say Bowdoin, but almost if not all responses from doctors have been GPPA.
At the moment, I'm weighing GPPA program against Bowdoin College. College Confidential parwnts say Bowdoin, but almost if not all responses from doctors have been GPPA.
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Is there a way to identify how BSMD students matched vs traditional path students?Looks like University of Illinois has a very strong match list. Lots of students matched into the specialties you're interested in. I'd take the bird in the hand. If you're considering a BS/MD program, I assume you're still in high school. I wouldn't worry too much about matching to a T20 residency just yet.
Match Day | College of Medicine Chicago | University of Illinois College of Medicine
University of Illinois College of Medicine Chicago Match results. Discover the diverse range of institutions where our MD students have successfully matched into their respective residency programs.
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Did you mention your interest in doing competitive residency from T20 program in college confidential?
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@srk2021 Yep I did - it's a pretty big thread and I've been able to get a lot of perspectives recently. It's just a difficult decision - from a doctor/medicine perspective, BS/MD seems like the way to go, but from a "coming of age", breadth of opportunity, and just a college experience perspective, Bowdoin and some of my other choices seem like a no brainer. It's just hard to take a leap of faith with such a high/difficult goal in mind.
I have a thread about that in /hSDN but haven't had much luck with replies. But I'm trying to get opinions from current medical students or physicians or people within the medical community about the subject matter.
I have a thread about that in /hSDN but haven't had much luck with replies. But I'm trying to get opinions from current medical students or physicians or people within the medical community about the subject matter.
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I don't think you get much different opinions here than college confidential. Same bird in hand/risk aversion vs bigger playing field. Only you know what's important for you.
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@srk2021 Oh my gosh you're the person from College Confidential! Quite the small world haha.
@HopeP
In my original thread I did detail my situation of being low income and taking the decision based on a planned-for-medicine perspective, along with the pro's and cons of each school.
This was more a what if I go to X School question
@HopeP
In my original thread I did detail my situation of being low income and taking the decision based on a planned-for-medicine perspective, along with the pro's and cons of each school.
This was more a what if I go to X School question
Here is OPs full story thread UIC GPPA Medicine (BS/MD) or Bowdoin College/Washington&Lee University (LAC) tagging @Goro @gonnif @Mr.Smile12
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I thought you would make the connection sooner@srk2021 Oh my gosh you're the person from College Confidential! Quite the small world haha.
@HopeP
In my original thread I did detail my situation of being low income and taking the decision based on a planned-for-medicine perspective, along with the pro's and cons of each school.
This was more a what if I go to X School question
Anyway, since you are asking different questions here than CC, I pitched in. on SDN, people move on quickly from the topic so don't expect 50 pages+ responses
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One thing I didn't ask on CC is are you factoring in UIC medical school costs? Do they have need based aid or you have to take loans?@srk2021 Oh my gosh you're the person from College Confidential! Quite the small world haha.
@HopeP
In my original thread I did detail my situation of being low income and taking the decision based on a planned-for-medicine perspective, along with the pro's and cons of each school.
This was more a what if I go to X School question
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@srk2021 Hmm yeah that's definitely important. But I think if it comes down to taking out loans at UICOM, I think it's something I'm prepared, but still need more mental strength, to take them.
If I do get into a prestigious medical school that offers great need-based financial aid or NYU, it would make things much better - but I also plan to make working at a VA Hospital as an option (tuition waivers), though it is not a guarantee.
If I do get into a prestigious medical school that offers great need-based financial aid or NYU, it would make things much better - but I also plan to make working at a VA Hospital as an option (tuition waivers), though it is not a guarantee.
Wait, won't you get tuition+fees for medicine portion of GPPA as well?
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As you know more and more schools are giving need based scholarships (75-100%) and unless we go into deep recession/depression the list will grow by the time you apply. That's one of the big reasons I am against BSMD programs and kids with high stats and ECs merit is also possible.
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@srk2021 That is good news. I think most BS/MD programs lock you in or let you apply elsewhere after forfeiting the guaranteed accepted - but the UIC GPPA Medicine program gives you the guarantee while still letting a student apply outside - it was a big thing they told students during the interview and regarding the program in general.
@HopeP No, not that I am aware.
@HopeP No, not that I am aware.
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To apply out you need to have strong ECs and MCAT scores. Do you think with you will be motivated to do all that with long daily commute and knowing you have a guaranteed admission? Very few BSMD students apply out.
You don't, but it definitely helps. I usually recommend against BS/MD programs, but in this case I think you should definitely do it. Bowdoin isn't a big enough draw to give up the acceptance in hand; if you were choosing between this program and Williams, I might suggest Williams. But a medical school acceptance is a golden ticket into the American upper class, and you can't bet on doing better than UICOM if you go to Bowdoin. And like you said, if you want to do research at Northwestern and get someone on the faculty in your corner, maybe you can apply there.
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@srk2021 Well, to be honest, I think I would be more motivated, and knowing that I have that safety net in hand, I don't have to stress about not having any options after the application cycle. I think it's a give or take - maybe not immediately, but short run/long run.
@longhaul3 I actually do participate in research at Northwestern's Feinberg School at the Mesulam Center. I would focus a lot on getting deeper into my research lab at Northwestern's Medical School, and, when the time comes, apply there with a letter of recommendation from my PI.
@longhaul3 I actually do participate in research at Northwestern's Feinberg School at the Mesulam Center. I would focus a lot on getting deeper into my research lab at Northwestern's Medical School, and, when the time comes, apply there with a letter of recommendation from my PI.
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A free ride is always best.
You can get into fine specialties and residencies from going to U ILL.
Int he long it, it doesn't matter though. Your salary as an attending will be the same if you attend U ILL, Harvard or CCOM. Getting INTO an uber-specialty is far more on you than your med school And as of right now, you should be concentrating on doing well in UG, not worrying about specialties or residencies. BS/MD programs have high dropout rates, FYI.
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@Goro Finance is a consideration for OP and UIC medical school is not cheap though. Also, OP wants to target T20s for residency.
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Every premed wants to target the T20s, of which there are at least 30 schools.
At this point, the OP's aspirations are too early in the game.
1) Bowdoin and Washington and Lee aren’t big name schools. I don’t think you are more likely to get into a top med school from those schools than from UIC. Whether you choose UIC vs the other schools should focus on cost and other things. If UIC undergrad won’t be crazy expensive, I would take the guaranteed opportunity.
2) UIC med school will get you into any specialty. Top 20 residency programs dont always give you broader exposure. Top 20 is based on academics, not as much based on the training (though there is a good amount of overlap). A massive majority of physicians do not need a top 20 program to achieve their goals. Granted, you have no idea if you will be in the minority who do need it until you actually get involved in the academic world.
3) You will change an insane amount over the next 10 years. Your goals will change tremendously. Mostly every high schooler who says they want to be a surgeon will not become one. Even those who make it to med school will often end up in a different specialty. Keep that in mind. You would be turning down a guarantee and risking not getting into medical school at all for the small chance that you want to do a competitive specialty and you need to do it at a top program to achieve your career goals (which even from low tier schools, you can match top residencies especially if you take a research year). On the other hand, doing BS/MD runs the risk of blinding you to other careers you may enjoy more and is likely more expensive.
Edit: Finance wise, calculate your anticipated debt based on what your parents will help with, living expense, etc for the BS/MD
If debt would be <$300,000--> I'm jealous.
$300,000-$400,000--> Worth it, but work hard to apply out so you hopefully get cheaper options
>$400,000--> If the other schools are actual full rides (tuition + living expenses), I would go to those and risk not getting into med school.
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@Pepe18 Ah thank you for your insight. Cost-wise, UIC would be "free" for the undergrad years, but at the cost of commuting.
Medical school wise, as an in-state student, UIC estimates from M1-M4, tuition only would be roughly $190,000 while the total cost of attendance (dorm, housing, loan fees, etc) would cost $295,000. It is quite a lot to take in but would be cheaper considerably than an outside state school - unless I make it to a demonstrated need medical school or NYU.
I think you and everyone else who gave advice is right about the T20 residency as it may matter merely for academia.
Medical school wise, as an in-state student, UIC estimates from M1-M4, tuition only would be roughly $190,000 while the total cost of attendance (dorm, housing, loan fees, etc) would cost $295,000. It is quite a lot to take in but would be cheaper considerably than an outside state school - unless I make it to a demonstrated need medical school or NYU.
I think you and everyone else who gave advice is right about the T20 residency as it may matter merely for academia.
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NYU is not the only school that's offering need based aid.
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WashU has free tuition (need-based). Other medical schools have significant aid - Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Cornell, Dartmouth, Johns Hopkins, Pritzker (UChicago), Vanderbilt, Penn, and UMich are the ones that come to mind.
Not free, but pretty significant cuts in medical school tuition.
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Yes, that's why I argue against BSMD here and on CC
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I am highly doubtful that you will apply out if you take UIC BSMD program and will have strong enough ECs to be competitive for schools like WashU.
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@srk2021 Ah okay I see. What would make Bowdoin the stronger contender and better prep to get me into those medical school? Based on geography alone it's quite the desert for shadowing, clinical experience, and significant research on the fields I'm interested in (at least on first look). However, that $3000 stipend could be useful for study abroad programs outside the country.
What would you consider to be strong enough ECs?
What would you consider to be strong enough ECs?
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Biggest thing is motivation
To get into top schools you need to differentiate yourself with strong GPA, MCAT and ECs. Do you think you can do all those while commuting from home and also knowing you really don't need to do all that given you have a guaranteed admission? You can get clinical experiences wherever there are hospitals, hospice, senior centers etc.. You can also get those and research during summer in Chicago. You can go non-clinical volunteering like tutoring at any place.Congrats! You can live at home during med school and even if you didn't, most schools overestimate living expenses. That is a very good deal.
Even if you decided not to do medicine, the other schools you got into wouldn't give you huge opportunities that you wouldn't get from UIC. If this was UIC BS/MD vs. UPenn or a school like that, there would be more to debate. But free undergrad with guaranteed MD admission to a good med school in a great city is awesome. I think you will be kicking yourself if you turn it down. Most pre-meds get weeded out and half who make it to the end don't get accepted to MD schools. You have a good opportunity in front of you. Good luck!
Congrats on getting in to UIC! It's a great school and can likely take you where you want to go.
Just some food for thought/playing the devil's advocate...Know that by the time you're finishing your second year of med school, step 1 will be pass/fail. This test is currently by far the biggest thing that can make or break you in terms of getting in to competitive specialties and there's no telling what will replace it (unclear if step 2 will start holding more weight moving forward). Anyway, making step 1 p/f may cause competitive specialties in ivory towers to put more emphasis on the prestige of the institution you came from versus test scores/clinical grades. This is likely to have a much greater impact on DO/IMG type applicants, but just something to think about.
Just some food for thought/playing the devil's advocate...Know that by the time you're finishing your second year of med school, step 1 will be pass/fail. This test is currently by far the biggest thing that can make or break you in terms of getting in to competitive specialties and there's no telling what will replace it (unclear if step 2 will start holding more weight moving forward). Anyway, making step 1 p/f may cause competitive specialties in ivory towers to put more emphasis on the prestige of the institution you came from versus test scores/clinical grades. This is likely to have a much greater impact on DO/IMG type applicants, but just something to think about.
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deleted978033
Alrighty! I just ended up committing to UIC's GPPA Medicine program
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Not surprisedAlrighty! I just ended up committing to UIC's GPPA Medicine program
GL to you! Keep us posted here and/or on CC about your journey thru UG and medical school.
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deleted978033
For sure!
