Sound in arizona?

[deleted87051]

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Sounds like Sound/Envision covers 99% of cases and other MD only groups come in for only a few surgeons that originated when envision couldn’t fulfil their obligations

So 1-2 cases/day? How could that be worthwhile?

 

[CubsDynasty]

Dunno? Think it’s only temporary until they decide to go with Sound.

 

[Ashers]

6 groups in one hospital? How do they split the cases? Surgeon request or some other system?

Yeah, usually surgeons have the groups they like to work with in Phoenix. If they can't get their preferred group, other groups will cover.

I stopped looking at the Sound/Echo LT job after the rep sucked and ignored me.

 

[zizzer]

So 1-2 cases/day? How could that be worthwhile?

The anesthesia groups in Phoenix typically cover multiple hospitals and surgery centers.

 

[AKMD_1984]

Sound Anesthesia pays some crazy salaries. I am not sure how are they managing this.

Any ideas?

 

[CubsDynasty]

Apparently most practices in town have been bought out (Envision/Sheridan, NPH, etc), whereas sound doesn’t owe any money to anyone and the hospital covers a good stipend. So what they offer is fair, while every other place just doesn’t offer enough in this market and in that city. But I think they’re all hired up with docs and done with locums now too though.

 

[deleted87051]

Sound Anesthesia pays some crazy salaries. I am not sure how are they managing this.

Any ideas?

Could be deep pockets willing to spend money in order to gain control of the market. Amazon strategy. Put all the mom n pops out of business and put the hurt on your staffing competitors like Best Buy (Envision) and Staples (NAPA) too.

UHC would like nothing more than to own the doctors. I’m sure they would eventually like to be vertically integrated like Kaiser:
1. Own the patients-done
2. Own the doctors-in progress
3. Own the hospitals

Hopefully their plan blows up.

UnitedHealth part of $2.2B acquisition of hospitalist staffing company

UnitedHealth Group’s OptumHealth is part of a $2.2 billion deal to acquire a Washington-based hospitalist staffing company. | OptumHealth is among a group of organizations, led by private equity firm Summit Partners, to purchase Sound Inpatient Physicians Holdings from Fresenius Medical Care...

www.fiercehealthcare.com

 

[deleted1130227]

Sound Anesthesia pays some crazy salaries. I am not sure how are they managing this.

Any ideas?

1 to infinity supervisory ratios.

 

[deleted87051]

1 to infinity supervisory ratios.

And “independent” CRNAs in opt out states.

 

[Blockit]

United healthcare already is the majority owner of sound physicians. that article you posted is from 2018.

 

[deleted87051]

United healthcare already is the majority owner of sound physicians. that article you posted is from 2018.

Yes I know. I was pointing that out and why they might want to own a large group of doctors.

 

[CubsDynasty]

interesting, does that make it more like Kaiser then NAPA?

 

[anes12]

1 to infinity supervisory ratios.

And “independent” CRNAs in opt out states.

Sounds unsafe and reckless (no pun intended)

 

[CubsDynasty]

I see what you did there. People on the forum have said Sound uses some big ratios in Florida but it appears in AZ they average less than 1:3 and also have docs that sit their own cases. But with AZ being an opt out state there are plenty of hospitals around the state that are run by CRNA groups where it's one doc firefighting for all the ORs but they're not signed into any of the cases.

 

[anes12]

I see what you did there. People on the forum have said Sound uses some big ratios in Florida but it appears in AZ they average less than 1:3 and also have docs that sit their own cases. But with AZ being an opt out state there are plenty of hospitals around the state that are run by CRNA groups where it's one doc firefighting for all the ORs but they're not signed into any of the cases.

Regarding your comment: "it appears in AZ they average less than 1:3 and also have docs that sit their own cases."

Do you actually work for sound in arizona to verify this as true and fact? Or is this secondhand word of mouth?

 

[CubsDynasty]

The latter. From talking to some folks who pass through there.

 

[zizzer]

Regarding your comment: "it appears in AZ they average less than 1:3 and also have docs that sit their own cases."

Do you actually work for sound in arizona to verify this as true and fact? Or is this secondhand word of mouth?

If it is true it's likely temporary to try to appease the surgeons and nurses at the hospital used to physician only anesthesia.

 

[Blockit]

If it is true it's likely temporary to try to appease the surgeons and nurses at the hospital used to physician only anesthesia.

Agreed. This is not consistent with Sound’s “business model” or long term goals.

 

[Arantius]

Regarding your comment: "it appears in AZ they average less than 1:3 and also have docs that sit their own cases."

Do you actually work for sound in arizona to verify this as true and fact? Or is this secondhand word of mouth?

I have done locums at Banner and can confirm this is correct. less than 1:3

 

[anes12]

I have done locums at Banner and can confirm this is correct. less than 1:3

Heard that sound is 1:4 and valley is obviously 1:1 since valley is anesthesiologist only.

 

[Arantius]

Any time I’ve been there it’s been 1:2-1:3 or I’m sitting my own case.

 

[CubsDynasty]

Ya Envision (formerly Valley) in the entire city is doc only. You have a huge dichotomy in Phoenix of CRNA only hospitals and doc only shops for the most part then Sound is a hybrid.

 

[GassYous]

Heard that sound is 1:4 and valley is obviously 1:1 since valley is anesthesiologist only.

My understanding is that valley is not md only

 

[Katheudontas parateroumen]

My understanding is that valley is not md only

It used to be until within the past few years

 

[CubsDynasty]

It used to be until within the past few years

Where do they use CRNAs?

 

[Katheudontas parateroumen]

Where do they use CRNAs?

It’s like 80-90% physician and very little crna and only certain hospitals have them I believe.

 

[anes12]

Any time I’ve been there it’s been 1:2-1:3 or I’m sitting my own case.

Do you sit general surgery cases or just endo cases?

 

[Arantius]

General surgery and some IR as I recall

 

[CubsDynasty]

General surgery and some IR as I

A CRNA group covers IR/cath. They sit OR cases they choose.

 

[Arantius]

I remember working in IR, came in on a Saturday for a stroke code. This was circa February this year so maybe different now. That place is a dinosaur we were paper charting down there and that crappy EMR cerner is in the ORs. Why doesn’t everyone just use epic?!

 

[zizzer]

I've never worked anywhere in any hospital with anything other than paper charting for satellate non-OR locations like that.

 

[pgg]

Why doesn’t everyone just use epic?!

Epic is expensive. The administrators choose the EMR and they don't have to use it. It's just a widget that costs them money.

So the story goes, a few years ago when the military was getting bids to replace the **** we'd been using since the 80s, the bid by Cerner was approximately a $Billion less than Epic's bid. I left the military before the new EMR arrived, and I hear it's not terrible, but it's also not Epic.

 

[deleted87051]

I've never worked anywhere in any hospital with anything other than paper charting for satellate non-OR locations like that.

We use epic everywhere including Cath lab, GI, ICU, IR.

 

[zizzer]

Must be nice.

 

[barn80]

United healthcare already is the majority owner of sound physicians. that article you posted is from 2018.

Wow, so United Healthcare owns Sound Physicians. Based on news, United Healthcare drops Sound's competitors such as Valley/Envision and USAP from their network. If Sound takes over those Valley/Envision and USAP contracts, then isn't this a conflict of interest and a huge legal issue?

U.S. Anesthesia Partners files lawsuits against UnitedHealthcare claiming insurer is driving away referrals

The Texas lawsuit claims UHC has advanced an "unlawful scheme" to eliminate providers like itself from its network for its own financial benefit.

www.healthcarefinancenews.com

Doctors Accuse UnitedHealthcare of Stifling Competition (Published 2021)

A multistate group of anesthesiologists filed cases in Texas and Colorado, accusing the insurance giant of squeezing them like a “boa constrictor.”

www.nytimes.com

Envision cut from UnitedHealthcare's network

The physician staffing firm has a significant footprint, with 25,000 clinicians in 44 states and D.C.

www.healthcaredive.com

Envision Healthcare Demands UnitedHealthcare Pay for Patient Care

Envision filed suit against UnitedHealthcare Services, Inc. and UnitedHealthcare Insurance Company (“United”) in U.S. federal court in Tennessee.

www.businesswire.com

 

[Blockit]

Wow, so United Healthcare owns Sound Physicians. Based on news, United Healthcare drops Sound's competitors such as Valley/Envision and USAP from their network. If Sound takes over those Valley/Envision and USAP contracts, then isn't this a conflict of interest and a huge legal issue?

U.S. Anesthesia Partners files lawsuits against UnitedHealthcare claiming insurer is driving away referrals

The Texas lawsuit claims UHC has advanced an "unlawful scheme" to eliminate providers like itself from its network for its own financial benefit.

www.healthcarefinancenews.com

Doctors Accuse UnitedHealthcare of Stifling Competition (Published 2021)

A multistate group of anesthesiologists filed cases in Texas and Colorado, accusing the insurance giant of squeezing them like a “boa constrictor.”

www.nytimes.com

Envision cut from UnitedHealthcare's network

The physician staffing firm has a significant footprint, with 25,000 clinicians in 44 states and D.C.

www.healthcaredive.com

Envision Healthcare Demands UnitedHealthcare Pay for Patient Care

Envision filed suit against UnitedHealthcare Services, Inc. and UnitedHealthcare Insurance Company (“United”) in U.S. federal court in Tennessee.

www.businesswire.com

Depends on whether someone wants to take on the huge expense to sue, or if the DOJ wakes up enough to care and do something about it.
That's the motto of corporate America...cheat and cheat and cheat until someone stops you from doing so.

 

[DirtDocMD]

Depends on whether someone wants to take on the huge expense to sue, or if the DOJ wakes up enough to care and do something about it.
That's the motto of corporate America...cheat and cheat and cheat until someone stops you from doing so.

Remember folks! Doctors can’t “self refer”, or unfairly profit, but Insurance Companies can own physician staffing companies, and cut reimbursement or cancel contracts with physicians who DON’T work for their staffing companies!

 

[Drägerman]

Wow, so United Healthcare owns Sound Physicians. Based on news, United Healthcare drops Sound's competitors such as Valley/Envision and USAP from their network. If Sound takes over those Valley/Envision and USAP contracts, then isn't this a conflict of interest and a huge legal issue?

U.S. Anesthesia Partners files lawsuits against UnitedHealthcare claiming insurer is driving away referrals

The Texas lawsuit claims UHC has advanced an "unlawful scheme" to eliminate providers like itself from its network for its own financial benefit.

www.healthcarefinancenews.com

Doctors Accuse UnitedHealthcare of Stifling Competition (Published 2021)

A multistate group of anesthesiologists filed cases in Texas and Colorado, accusing the insurance giant of squeezing them like a “boa constrictor.”

www.nytimes.com

Envision cut from UnitedHealthcare's network

The physician staffing firm has a significant footprint, with 25,000 clinicians in 44 states and D.C.

www.healthcaredive.com

Envision Healthcare Demands UnitedHealthcare Pay for Patient Care

Envision filed suit against UnitedHealthcare Services, Inc. and UnitedHealthcare Insurance Company (“United”) in U.S. federal court in Tennessee.

www.businesswire.com

Medicine has a lot of problems but this is the most demoralizing. It’s just a noose tightening until the system collapses. Don’t see anyone winning a legislative battle against these folks.

 

[deleted87051]

In addition to Sound, United Healthcare has an interest in another physician staffing company called Optum Medical Care. OptumRx, also under the United Health umbrella, is one of the largest pharmacy benefit managers in the US.

From a Gaswork posting:

CareMount, ProHEALTH and Riverside medical groups have united and rebranded as one regional group under Optum’s nationwide family of dedicated physicians and care teams, who are working together to help people live their healthiest lives. Optum is a leading information and technology-enabled health services business dedicated to helping make the health system work better for everyone. With more than 210,000 people worldwide, Optum delivers intelligent, integrated solutions that help to modernize the health system and improve overall population health. Optum is part of UnitedHealth Group (NYSE: UNH). Optum Medical Care in the tri-state region (formerly CareMount Medical, ProHEALTH New York and Riverside Medical Group) offers an interconnected network that enables us to work collaboratively to better coordinate care among our doctors and care teams. Together, we offer you and your family access to more than 2,100 providers, representing 70 specialties, working in 360 medical practices and more than 55 urgent care locations across New York, New Jersey and Southern Connecticut.

 

[Drägerman]

In addition to Sound, United Healthcare has an interest in another physician staffing company called Optum Medical Care. OptumRx, also under the United Health umbrella, is one of the largest pharmacy benefit managers in the US.

From a Gaswork posting:

CareMount, ProHEALTH and Riverside medical groups have united and rebranded as one regional group under Optum’s nationwide family of dedicated physicians and care teams, who are working together to help people live their healthiest lives. Optum is a leading information and technology-enabled health services business dedicated to helping make the health system work better for everyone. With more than 210,000 people worldwide, Optum delivers intelligent, integrated solutions that help to modernize the health system and improve overall population health. Optum is part of UnitedHealth Group (NYSE: UNH). Optum Medical Care in the tri-state region (formerly CareMount Medical, ProHEALTH New York and Riverside Medical Group) offers an interconnected network that enables us to work collaboratively to better coordinate care among our doctors and care teams. Together, we offer you and your family access to more than 2,100 providers, representing 70 specialties, working in 360 medical practices and more than 55 urgent care locations across New York, New Jersey and Southern Connecticut.

Have a good friend that was working for United/Optum buying up the primary care market. I had a pretty eye opening conversation with them a few months ago. We were on totally different wave lengths and they couldn’t understand why the private equity and this United push was so negative for patients and physicians. We were speaking two different languages.

 

[deleted87051]

Have a good friend that was working for United/Optum buying up the primary care market. I had a pretty eye opening conversation with them a few months ago. We were on totally different wave lengths and they couldn’t understand why the private equity and this United push was so negative for patients and physicians. We were speaking two different languages.

Many doctors, hospitals, surgicenters, etc have bought the sales pitch, thus their success.

 

[deleted1183938]

I see what you did there. People on the forum have said Sound uses some big ratios in Florida but it appears in AZ they average less than 1:3 and also have docs that sit their own cases. But with AZ being an opt out state there are plenty of hospitals around the state that are run by CRNA groups where it's one doc firefighting for all the ORs but they're not signed into any of the cases.

How big are these hospitals? What kind of docs sign up for these firefighter gigs??

 

[CubsDynasty]

How big are these hospitals? What kind of docs sign up for these firefighter gigs??

Del Webb, Boswell, Abrazos, Stewart’s off the top of my head, these are some 200-400+ bed hospitals.

Not sure who signs up for these, can’t even imagine a job like that.