South College Updates???

[scrawnyguy]

South College's DPT program is about 3 quarters in now, but I haven't heard much about how the program is unfolding. I know a lot of folks (including myself) questioned how an accelerated DPT program can be taught almost entirely online. I haven't heard anything about the sky falling yet so maybe it's working out fine. I imagine we won't know a whole lot though until they first classes graduates next spring/summer and starts taking the NPTE. Has anybody else heard anything?

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[jblil]

The only feedback so far has been:
" So South College has not officially gotten accredited and tbh they shouldn't. I am currently a student in their charter class and can say it was the biggest mistake of my life. They are all well known physical therapists in the field that have published countless research articles but cannot teach for anything! The online component of the program could be so much better. Professors do not teach in their lectures and upload lectures that take 10 hours to get through (per class). If anyone out there is thinking of attending their program, DO NOT DO IT! Even if it is the only program that takes you. "

Unfortunately, the above poster hasn't come back to give us more details.

South College also has a PTA program. Its students were talking about starting a class-action lawsuit against the school.

 

[scrawnyguy]

I saw that a while back, too. I'm not rooting for anyone to fail, but I don't think the program is going to last. I'm a big proponent of distance education in many instances, but I don't think it's appropriate for something as hands on as PT. For the students' sakes I hope I am wrong. That's a lot of dough to drop on a program that might not be worth the paper its printed on.

 

[NewTestament]

Is John Childs associated with this program? What a disappointment. He's a great researcher and contributor for our profession.

 

[Azimuthal]

Is John Childs associated with this program? What a disappointment. He's a great researcher and contributor for our profession.

He's an adjunct professor or teaches at some capacity. He's also got both hands in the cookie jar as South College promotes EIM's (John is the CEO) residency programs, which is not part of the tuition.

 

[scrawnyguy]

I know it's been a while since anyone posted on this topic, but I attended a presentation at CSM today from the folks at South College (Walker, Flynn, Childs, and some other lady whose presentation I mostly missed while volunteering at another presentation). I talk to on of their students as well who is an old acquaintance of mine as well. I was skeptical going in and I'm definitely still in the "wait and see" group, but I was pleasantly surprised. Their first class graduates in June and will take the boards in July so perhaps next summer we'll hear a little more about how effective their program truly is. From what they say others colleges such as Baylor's med campus in Dallas are starting to develop programs following aspects of their model. Interesting to say the least.

 

[FoamCup]

TBH I dont understand this school. Its hard to envision going to such a physical field and all u do is study online..just not wrapping my mind around it. I see there is a lot of negativity around this school on this forum...dont know if its justified or not but I would want to see how their cohort does.

 

[scrawnyguy]

TBH I dont understand this school. Its hard to envision going to such a physical field and all u do is study online..just not wrapping my mind around it. I see there is a lot of negativity around this school on this forum...dont know if its justified or not but I would want to see how their cohort does.

I took some online classes during my UG and while a couple were somewhat tough, most were pretty easy. A few discussion posts every week, maybe a handful of papers, and a test or two that may or not have been proctored. This is what I thought the SC classes were like but it sounds like I was pretty off. It sounds like they actually have 3-4 of synchronous coursework per day using what sounds like a suped up version of Skype. From what I gather they also have some asynchronous coursework every week as well. For example, they might have to perform a mock exam on someone and record it for review. Every 3 months they head to TN for 10-15 for "immersion labs" where they do hands on stuff. There's a 7 or so week full time clinical affiliation during their 4th or 5th semester, then another one that's about 6 months long at the tail end of the program. There's definitely a lot more hands on time than I initially thought.

Another audience member did ask how they were able to cut what is almost a 3 year program at most schools down to 2. They said one of they do so is by cutting out breaks. They get about a week off in between terms. I really don't think that math adds up though. I'm in class close to 40 hours a week and we only get two weeks for Christmas and we're still pushing 31 months total in our program. Something else had to be cut to make it work at SC.

Someone also asked Dr. Childs why this program was created at South College, a relatively unknown for-profit school, and he pretty much said that no other school was willing to do it. He said no established program would willingly cut out a year of revenue so they had to go with someone who doesn't have much to lose. Hard to disagree with that.

 

[sharpieaccent]

IMO I would stay away too until I don't see good results.

 

[FoamCup]

I took some online classes during my UG and while a couple were somewhat tough, most were pretty easy. A few discussion posts every week, maybe a handful of papers, and a test or two that may or not have been proctored. This is what I thought the SC classes were like but it sounds like I was pretty off. It sounds like they actually have 3-4 of synchronous coursework per day using what sounds like a suped up version of Skype. From what I gather they also have some asynchronous coursework every week as well. For example, they might have to perform a mock exam on someone and record it for review. Every 3 months they head to TN for 10-15 for "immersion labs" where they do hands on stuff. There's a 7 or so week full time clinical affiliation during their 4th or 5th semester, then another one that's about 6 months long at the tail end of the program. There's definitely a lot more hands on time than I initially thought.

Another audience member did ask how they were able to cut what is almost a 3 year program at most schools down to 2. They said one of they do so is by cutting out breaks. They get about a week off in between terms. I really don't think that math adds up though. I'm in class close to 40 hours a week and we only get two weeks for Christmas and we're still pushing 31 months total in our program. Something else had to be cut to make it work at SC.

Someone also asked Dr. Childs why this program was created at South College, a relatively unknown for-profit school, and he pretty much said that no other school was willing to do it. He said no established program would willingly cut out a year of revenue so they had to go with someone who doesn't have much to lose. Hard to disagree with that.

still isnt the same as a real class. theres just so much that goes into a real class vs online classes. Wish them success but something to keep an eye on.

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

still isnt the same as a real class. theres just so much that goes into a real class vs online classes. Wish them success but something to keep an eye on.

Medical schools don't even require attendance now and they prep for step 1 after MS2 before rotations. Some schools are doing three year models now.

If they have good pass rates on the npte, then it would be justification to match contracts to companies or hospitals for a setting under supervision rather than getting shuttled around to clinics in year three. Would drop living expense costs, you could work in a specific setting for a prolonged period of time to get used to the patient population and it could make settings competitive for people who really want to do it as opposed to out of state students or private school students only doing home health due to the significantly higher pay grade.

Education is undergoing a revolution currently, however, I completely disagree with full licensure without matching to a setting under close supervision. I'm constantly learning more although didactic is mostly done excluding a summer block. It takes too much supervised touching and assessment of patients, watching entire rehab progressions (six months for heavy Ortho....longer sometimes for pediatrics), and too much time to effectively reference and apply literature well as well as learn business models to have this program be 2 and done. That makes it seem just a factory throwing off supply and demand as opposed to creating an integrated and solid model for the profession to survive and have solid outcomes.

 

[jblil]

Medical schools don't even require attendance now

But med students have a minimum of 3 years of on-the-job training under strict supervision (= residency) after they finish school. We PTs are pretty much let loose after we get our degree.

I am waiting for The Univ of Phoenix or Miller-Motte College to announce they're offering a DPT program. Both have online BSN programs already.

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

But med students have a minimum of 3 years of on-the-job training under strict supervision (= residency) after they finish school. We PTs are pretty much let loose after we get our degree.

I am waiting for The Univ of Phoenix or Miller-Motte College to announce they're offering a DPT program. Both have online BSN programs already.

Which is why required practice time in a setting under on contract before certifications would be the best way to move forward if there's a solid pass rate on the npte. It's the same exact thing as a residency excluding the slavery component to working double time for hospital admins. The residency system is really just your first job with more responsibility slowly added. The fellowship system serves to restrict supply and demand and be a resume filler until jobs and markets shift keeping salaries up and continuity of training to stable markets intact.


What's your opinion on changing capte regulations so that schools can only charge so much over or under historical reimbursement trends and inflation? Also alignment of seats so admission has to reflect trends in bls and hrsa workforce attrition? I know that isn't allowing a free market to be at play for schools but it's a heck of a lot better than continuing to open up places and charge exorbitant tuition.

It could also provide time to experiment with more TBL and flipped classroom and perhaps go to a 2 year didactic model followed by contract matches under supervision while being paid.....if one setting happens to be better for learning (say, acute and subacute since you are seeing the first start of disease processes and the functional issues that start) then that could be the first general contract match. other contract matches the next year in a cycle. Top students or those with good recs could match peds, sports, OP neuro, etc. but still have a required timelength before complete independent movement between settings. If they find the setting just isn't for them, then contract match out next cycle. It could create better continuity of passing off experience from mentorship and drastically reduce loans

 

[ptisfun2]

Get ready for more online DPT programs from real universities. They are coming very, very soon. But price will almost certainly not come down

 

[sharpieaccent]

Get ready for more online DPT programs from real universities. They are coming very, very soon. But price will almost certainly not come down

Name them? U got inside info?

 

[ptisfun2]

Name them? U got inside info?

I don't think it is public yet and I don't work there so I am hesitant to say the uni name. But it is a well established PT program.

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

Get ready for more online DPT programs from real universities. They are coming very, very soon. But price will almost certainly not come down

Love how over here we haven't had price hikes in 3 years. Pretty sure the students have implicitly let faculty know that they're killing the future of their profession and incentivizing mass fraud if administrators keep feeding on us.

It's really astounding.....I can't say I won't feel bad if those admins get slammed with an absurd hospital bill someday.

 

[ptisfun2]

Love how over here we haven't had price hikes in 3 years. Pretty sure the students have implicitly let faculty know that they're killing the future of their profession and incentivizing mass fraud if administrators keep feeding on us.

It's really astounding.....I can't say I won't feel bad if those admins get slammed with an absurd hospital bill someday.

Faculty have zero say in how much a university charges. Absolutely zero. Students do complain at times but setting tuition prices are well above a faculty members pay grade.

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

This includes tenured full professors (not assistant, adjunct, or associate), deans, and chairs?

I have an acquaintance who pulls the big grants from NIH to route their way to tenure status for a health professional school. He's said tuition is used for experiments although he doesnt....couldn't tell if tongue in cheek.

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

See above. Didn't tag correctly.

Faculty have zero say in how much a university charges. Absolutely zero. Students do complain at times but setting tuition prices are well above a faculty members pay grade.

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

Name them? U got inside info?

I have a few ideas.

By the way, that poster is a really really nice guy regardless of this threads topic.

 

[scrawnyguy]

Name them? U got inside info?

I can't find a ton of info about it elsewhere, but at CSM John Childs said Baylor is developing a new program (separate from Army-Baylor, I think he said they will be based out of Dallas). According to CAPTE is has submitted an application for candidacy and he is listed as the director. He was one of the driving forces behind the creation of this South College program so I have a feeling they will share more than a few similarities.

 

[FoamCup]

I can't find a ton of info about it elsewhere, but at CSM John Childs said Baylor is developing a new program (separate from Army-Baylor, I think he said they will be based out of Dallas). According to CAPTE is has submitted an application for candidacy and he is listed as the director. He was one of the driving forces behind the creation of this South College program so I have a feeling they will share more than a few similarities.

Interesting. Whats your prediction on what their accepting stats would be..or even the tuition cost?

 

[scrawnyguy]

Interesting. Whats your prediction on what their accepting stats would be..or even the tuition cost?

I'm guessing tuition will be in the ballpark of 40K per year. That's about what South College is charging and also in the neighborhood of tuition of other programs at Baylor. I imagine it would be more selective than South. I think South's accepted stats were in the neighborhood of 3.4-3.5 and they had north of 900 applications for their last class. Baylor already has an established "brand" which gives them a leg up. I'm a little biased but it seems as though Army-Baylor is one of the more well regarded programs out there and if they can siphon a little off their reputation they can probably be relatively selective. We might be putting the cart before the horse though. Until this first class graduates and passes the boards I'm going to stay in a holding pattern before I call their model a success.

 

[ptisfun2]

This includes tenured full professors (not assistant, adjunct, or associate), deans, and chairs?

I have an acquaintance who pulls the big grants from NIH to route their way to tenure status for a health professional school. He's said tuition is used for experiments although he doesnt....couldn't tell if tongue in cheek.

At my institution the Chair (and therefore anyone 'below') has no say in tuition. The Dean may but I truly doubt it. It is done at upper administration for the university; the Dean is only concerned with the school.
Tuition is used to support pilot studies for research. Of course. Tuition is used for lots of things. State schools have some state support but private schools only have tuition (and endowments) for everything. I work at a state university and we have to have transparency for funds since taxpayers fund part of the institution so anyone can find out where all monies go. But yes research is part of the budget at my university.

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

It is done at upper administration for the university;

Then theyre the capitalistic ones taking advantage of the system irrespective of outside markets.

Have a wonderful week sir.

 

[jadedphysiotherapist]

I can't find a ton of info about it elsewhere, but at CSM John Childs said Baylor is developing a new program (separate from Army-Baylor, I think he said they will be based out of Dallas). According to CAPTE is has submitted an application for candidacy and he is listed as the director. He was one of the driving forces behind the creation of this South College program so I have a feeling they will share more than a few similarities.

I'm guessing tuition will be in the ballpark of 40K per year. That's about what South College is charging and also in the neighborhood of tuition of other programs at Baylor. I imagine it would be more selective than South. I think South's accepted stats were in the neighborhood of 3.4-3.5 and they had north of 900 applications for their last class. Baylor already has an established "brand" which gives them a leg up. I'm a little biased but it seems as though Army-Baylor is one of the more well regarded programs out there and if they can siphon a little off their reputation they can probably be relatively selective. We might be putting the cart before the horse though. Until this first class graduates and passes the boards I'm going to stay in a holding pattern before I call their model a success.

Baylor has been established well for a long time now. Some of the best researchers came from there, USC, Pitt, UDel, Emory, and some southeast areas. However, their med program is also one of the best in the nation. Tuition is 20k per year. The Army-Baylor has always been competitive since its directly into the military. What I find odd is that the flipped models aren't just getting implemented there. That doesn't make sense to me. Starting another program wouldn't make sense. The integration should happen at the established one.

Also, 3.4-3.5 GPAs are still relatively selective. I'm curious on pass rates as well. That's not rock bottom pharmacy or law school acceptance stats. I.e. sub 3.0 undergrad coursework.

 

[scrawnyguy]

Baylor has been established well for a long time now. Some of the best researchers came from there, USC, Pitt, UDel, Emory, and some southeast areas. However, their med program is also one of the best in the nation. Tuition is 20k per year. The Army-Baylor has always been competitive since its directly into the military. What I find odd is that the flipped models aren't just getting implemented there. That doesn't make sense to me. Starting another program wouldn't make sense. The integration should happen at the established one.

Also, 3.4-3.5 GPAs are still relatively selective. I'm curious on pass rates as well. That's not rock bottom pharmacy or law school acceptance stats. I.e. sub 3.0 undergrad coursework.

I'm at Army-Baylor now and I don't see them changing anything anytime soon. They're pretty big on tradition here which I actually like. Outside of of classroom they have class pictures of every single class dating all the way back to the reconstruction aides of WWI. Even though we have Baylor in our name the program is pretty much run by the federal government so any type of change would be inevitably slow. It some ways there already are some similarities between the South program and us, particularly in the way they put pretty much all of their clinical rotations at the tail end of their programs after didactic instruction has been completed. South's program was created by Mike Walker, Tim Flynn, and Childs, all of whom were either faculty members and/or program directors of our program in the past so that's not a huge surprise.

 

[ptisfun2]

Then theyre the capitalistic ones taking advantage of the system irrespective of outside markets.

Have a wonderful week sir.

Thanks. You too. But I am not a sir. although I don't like ma'am.