southern IM programs

[etmed]

Hello everyone,

I have noticed a number of comments on northeast U.S. programs. I am interested in more southern programs. I am looking at UAB, UTSW, Baylor, UT-Houston, UT-SA, Vandy, Emory and MUSC. I would appreciate any information.

Thanks,
ET

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[DoctorSax]

Hello everyone,

I have noticed a number of comments on northeast U.S. programs. I am interested in more southern programs. I am looking at UAB, UTSW, Baylor, UT-Houston, UT-SA, Vandy, Emory and MUSC. I would appreciate any information.

Thanks,
ET

With that list, you might want to give UTMB-Galveston a look as well...solid program on the up & up, great faculty, cheap cost of living, close to the beach, excellent clinical training (large public hospital, large prison hospital), and residents that truly seem to enjoy one another's company.

I can only attest to Emory, which my wife and I both enjoyed interviewing at. If you check out the "interview experiences" thread, you'll see several peoples' impressions of it, mostly positive.

And all I know about Baylor is that it looks to be "in transition," but still pretty good.

Hope that helps!

DS

 

[luna120]

Emory is definitely a solid IM program. You cannot find better training than at Grady Hospital. The program directors here are very proactive and most residents find them very willing to work with them on constantly improving the program. It's a pretty large program size and there are a lot of training sites, which could be good or bad depending on how you look at it. Atlanta is a great city.

MUSC is a good sized academic program. People here were so friendly, especially the program director who seems to work very closely with the residents. They take a lot of their own for fellowships and others place within the Southeast mostly. Overall, it's good academic program with a more laid back feel than some of the other big names. Charleston is beautiful, but kind of expensive.

I can't speak about any of the others, but I would add Wake Forest to the list. I loved the program and if it wasn't for the location, I definitely would have ranked it higher.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me!

 

[peptidoglycan]

You should seriously consider Tulane. Our IM program is awesome and your career will be better for having worked with Dr. Wiese, our PD. We just got back from the national SGIM conference where we had about 15 presentations, many of which were done by interns. In contrast, my friend at Emory was the only intern they sent (and he was a Tulane grad!). You'll get great research experience and elective time as an intern and you'll be exposed to important people at meetings like this. There are many many more reasons to consider Tulane, this example being just the most timely.

 

[TommyGunn04]

What about Duke, UNC, or UVa?

Hello everyone,

I have noticed a number of comments on northeast U.S. programs. I am interested in more southern programs. I am looking at UAB, UTSW, Baylor, UT-Houston, UT-SA, Vandy, Emory and MUSC. I would appreciate any information.

Thanks,
ET

 

[etmed]

I know little about the UNC, Duke and UVA. I have heard they are highly competitive. Is that so? What are we talking about...step 1 of 220 or 250+?

Thanks,
ET

 

[Loopo Henle]

I know little about the UNC, Duke and UVA. I have heard they are highly competitive. Is that so? What are we talking about...step 1 of 220 or 250+?

Thanks,
ET

What you will soon find out is that the whole process is incredibly random. First of all I don't think IM programs are that married to step scores. I don't know if there is a program in the country that requires >250 on step one or two. Check out the interview stats thread from last year. You will see people with >250 rejected by places and you will see people with lower scores interviewing at bigger name joints.
The three listed schools are competitive, but not exceedingly so (Duke may be the exception). They tend to be very quirky about who they interview and it may be regional preferences. I wouldn't be afraid to apply to any of those schools with a 220.
The point of my rant is this: Don't worry too much about what USMLE score you need to match somewhere it is WAY more complicated than that. Make sure you are well rounded, good GPA, good letter, AOA if possible, Research if possible and you should be golden.

 

[carol ann]

It is all completely random - I am convinced. But I strongly recommend that anyone interested in the south consider UNC UVA and Duke and WFU(my top 4). Personally, I ended up at Duke and it has been a whirlwind of an intern year, and I think it's pretty darn great...you can't find a better group of house officers and faculty.

I am a whole year removed from the application thing but I also interviewed at Wake, UAB, MUSC, Vandy and I liked them all a bunch.

My 2 cents

S

 

[UTSouthwestern]

Will be interesting to see how Austin, Texas factors into the UTMB equation if they are truly set to acquire Brackenridge Hospital in Austin along with its training program in IM and the traditional general surgery externship it has provided with the program.

 

[MedStudentSpous]

carol ann,
How competitive is Duke? I'm really interested in applying there. I have a 230+ step 1, HP in IM (but I really thought I deserved Honors), Honors in Surgery, getting MD/MPH. Currently in a top program in NYC. Just wondering how I stack up with other applicants.
Is not getting Honors in IM a dealbreaker?

Where do a lot of the IM residents at Duke come from?

It is all completely random - I am convinced. But I strongly recommend that anyone interested in the south consider UNC UVA and Duke and WFU(my top 4). Personally, I ended up at Duke and it has been a whirlwind of an intern year, and I think it's pretty darn great...you can't find a better group of house officers and faculty.

I am a whole year removed from the application thing but I also interviewed at Wake, UAB, MUSC, Vandy and I liked them all a bunch.

My 2 cents

S

 

[Art Vandelay]

I will try to answer for Carol Ann. Duke is quite competitive and it's hard to say exactly what you need to get an interview. If you are really interested, I would come down and do a consult month. Otherwise, you can try to find connections here who can put in a good word for you. I know it is hard for the PDs to figure out who to interview and it turns into a random process for many applicants.

 

[atsai3]

carol ann,
How competitive is Duke? I'm really interested in applying there. I have a 230+ step 1, HP in IM (but I really thought I deserved Honors), Honors in Surgery, getting MD/MPH. Currently in a top program in NYC. Just wondering how I stack up with other applicants.
Is not getting Honors in IM a dealbreaker?

Where do a lot of the IM residents at Duke come from?

Not honor'ing your IM clerkship isn't necessarily a deal breaker, but you probably want to honor your sub-I. One of the associate program directors told me that Ralph Corey gave her good feedback about me after I interviewed with him, and at least a portion of the feedback consisted of "I know he didn't get honors in his IM clerkship, but he did get honors in his sub-I". (My presumption is that my sub-I honors made up for my not getting honors in the clerkship.)

Of course, this is only my $0.02 for an N=1.

Cheers
-AT.

 

[Doctor&Geek]

Hey friend, you just answered a 6-month old post .

 

[sluggo]

What do you all know about Wake? I went there and was very impressed. Did not see a downside!

 

[Igor]

When I was at Emory (last millenium) we used to say three things:

#1. When you finish, you can take care of anyone, anywhere on the planet

#2. After Grady, nothing can ever scare you

#3. If the elevators worked properly, it would be a 2 year residency.

I left Atlanta for family reasons after residency years ago, but I have nothing but fond memories of Grady.

I can't say any other of the other places mentioned are bad - they're not. They're just not where I went. Obviously you are looking at some great programs.

More important that my bias is yours. Did you like Atlanta/Birmingham/Dallas/wherever? Try not to train in a place you hate.

Did you like the residents you met on your interview. These are the people you'll work with and they really do affect your training.

When in doubt, go with your gut feeling and you won't be sorry

 

[idiotpathic]

i know im not on the right thread - but can any1 throw light on uarkansas or lsu shreveport or MUSC??

 

[Onco]

Vanderbilt, UTSW, Duke, Wake, Mayos (Fl/Ar), UF Gainsville, UAB, UVa and Baylor are great programs..

I've heard some negative things about Emory. There's some scut at Emory and residents are over-worked. Infact *officially* they are very near the 80-hr rule and the word of mouth is that residents often go over. I've heard there's a lack of camaraderie between the residents. Apparently the first year is one of the toughest anywhere. They cover a number of hospitals so it can get hectic. The PGY1s so far have not come to terms with implementing a Nightfloat. Perhaps an Emory resident can shed more light. Its not really an elite program anyway..

 

[VCMM414]

Vanderbilt, UTSW, Duke, Wake, Mayos (Fl/Ar), UF Gainsville, UAB, UVa and Baylor are great programs..

I've heard some negative things about Emory. There's some scut at Emory and residents are over-worked. Infact *officially* they are very near the 80-hr rule and the word of mouth is that residents often go over. I've heard there's a lack of camaraderie between the residents. Apparently the first year is one of the toughest anywhere. They cover a number of hospitals so it can get hectic. The PGY1s so far have not come to terms with implementing a Nightfloat. Perhaps an Emory resident can shed more light. Its not really an elite program anyway..

About the number of hospitals Emory residents cover (4 - but only a couple of months at Crawford Long over the entire 3 years), residents at both UAB and Baylor also spend significant time at 3 different hospitals.

Overnight calls are now q4 in the unit, q4 or q5 at Emory, q8 at Grady, q12? at VA. I was a sub-I at Grady earlier in the year, and this system is slightly different from what was in place when I did the subI. There is some scut for interns, mostly at VA and Grady, but nothing excessive. FWIW, I also did a sub-I at a west coast institution and I did not feel that Emory interns are worked significantly harder. Not being a resident, I cannot speak for the camaraderie at Emory, but I will say that I had a very fun month at Grady. My resident and interns treated me with respect; with the exception of not being able to sign orders/H&P, I was able to function just like an intern.

Finally, Emory has as good or better of a fellowship match list as some of the other major southern programs mentioned: UVa, Wake, UAB, UF, Baylor, Vandy, Mayo-Jax etc. Clinical training at Emory is excellent; there are programs that equal Emory in this aspect, but IMO none surpasses it. Reputation-wise, Duke and UTSW are the two truly elite programs in the south. However one likes to split hairs, UAB, Emory, Vanderbilt, UNC, and Baylor all have largely equivalent prestige, which is overall somewhat less than the highest elite group.

 

[viostorm]

With that list, you might want to give UTMB-Galveston

Ok, so I've never been to UTMB-Galveston but I can tell you what all my classmates say.

They say it is called Gal-catraz because basically the hospital is 1/2 a prison.

Apparently the so called "beach" is not swimmable and disgusting.

 

[Discobolus]

i know im not on the right thread - but can any1 throw light on uarkansas or lsu shreveport or MUSC??

I'm a 4th year student at Arkansas and applying there for residency so I can try to shed some light on your question.

Overall I think it is an excellent program that doesn't have a lot of name recognition but is getting better. It's not a huge program with only 19-20 categorical residents each year. Training is divided between the VA (one of the largest VA's in the country) and the University Hospital. The University Hospital is undergoing a massive construction project and the new areas will be very nice. Although the University Hospital currently uses a combination of electronic and paper medical records a new system will go online next year that they are referring to as "CPRS with color".

The residents are very collegial and a high level of Esprit De Corps exists. About 1/2 the residents are U.S. medical graduates with most being UAMS graduates and 1/2 FMG's (mostly from India and Pakistan) that are uniformly outstanding.

The conference schedule is good with noon conference 5 days per week including a dedicated board review conference weekly. MKSAP and Med Study are also provided for residents.

Faculty are generally very good with teaching and this seems to be a priority. There have been some problems in the past with losing gastroenterology faculty members to private practice but the new division head seems committed to academic medicine and is moving the division in the right direction.

Another strong point is Dr. Andreoli (editor of Cecil Essentials of Medicine) who does morning report at the University Hospital. He actually has more teaching time now than when he was the chairman.

Although not the most exciting city in the world Little Rock is not bad and has lots of outdoor activities available just outside of the city.

Fellowship placement is generally pretty good, our current chief will be doing nephrology at Duke next year.

Overall it is a good program that is moving in a positive direction.

 

[Onco]

About the number of hospitals Emory residents cover (4 - but only a couple of months at Crawford Long over the entire 3 years), residents at both UAB and Baylor also spend significant time at 3 different hospitals.

Overnight calls are now q4 in the unit, q4 or q5 at Emory, q8 at Grady, q12? at VA. I was a subI at Grady earlier in the year, and this system is slightly different from what was in place when I did the subI. There is some scut for interns, mostly at VA and Grady, but nothing excessive. FWIW, I had a subI in the Bay Area and I did not feel that Emory interns are worked significantly harder. Not being a resident, I cannot speak for the camaraderie at Emory, but I will say that I had a very fun month at Grady. My resident and interns treated me with respect; with the exception of not being able to sign orders/H&P, I was able to function just like an intern.

Finally, Emory has as good or better of a fellowship match list as some of the other major southern programs mentioned: UVa, Wake, UAB, UF, Baylor, Vandy, Mayo etc. Clinical training at Emory is excellent; there are programs that equal Emory in this aspect, but IMO none surpasses it. Reputation-wise, Duke and UTSW are the two truly elite programs in the south. However one likes to split hairs, UAB, Emory, Vanderbilt, UNC, and Baylor all have largely equivalent prestige, which is overall somewhat less than the highest elite group.

I would say Vandy is right up there with Duke and UTSW..

PS- my understanding is that a high percent of Emory residents eventually settle for private practice.

 

[VCMM414]

I would say Vandy is right up there with Duke and UTSW..

Your opinion is as good as mine regarding Vandy. Still, I stand by my previous comment that Vandy is more along the lines of UAB/Emory: excellent IM programs with strong fellowship placements. I can say with some experience that Vanderbilt does not quite have the same elite reputation as Duke on the west coast, but I do not know how it is viewed in the northeast or midwest.

PS- my understanding is that a high percent of Emory residents eventually settle for private practice.

A high percentage of IM residents in ANY program eventually ends up in private practice, whether with or without fellowship training. Usually monetary compensation is better in the private sector. This point alone cannot differentiate Emory IM program from other similar programs in the south.

For example, according to their respective websites, 11 of 69 (16%) Vandy residents in the past 2 years entered IM private practice, while 17 of 109 (15.5%) Emory residents had done the same in the past 2 years. This count does not include IM faculty positions at academic institutions.

 

[monkey7247]

i know im not on the right thread - but can any1 throw light on uarkansas or lsu shreveport or MUSC??

I'm currently a prelim at LSU-Shreveport. The program is pretty benign and I would recommend it to others as long as they feel they'll fit with the town of Shreveport-Bossier.

Residents: A mix of local LSU-S grads and FMGs. Not many categorical American grads from outside facilities (I'm here as an ophtho prelim). A tight knit group of good people. Majority of the FMGs are Indian, but also some Carribean grad Americans and some from other countries (Pakistan, China). Very competent.

Hours: The program is very aware of the hours their residents work. Looking back at my hour log, I usually work high 60-low 70 hours/week. One outlier of 100 hours, and only 3 total weeks over 80 hours in 6m. The outlier came from a week when I had 2 calls in the same week and I had no day off while at the VA.

Call: We cover LSU-S and a VAMC. Call for ward months is q5d in LSU-S and q4d in VA. The teams are usually 1 attending, 1 resident, 2 interns, and a PA. Medical students rotate with us also, but are not always there. The teams are capped at 24 patients. On call we can admit a total of 10 before calling in the night float, although only 6 go to the primary team and then are allocated on a rotating basis to the other team. Daytime admits are usually handled by the resident, but this is not a hard rule. Interns will admit 3-4 patients on call and are responsible for all routine patient issues overnight.

Schedule: My schedule is 7 ward months (6 with call, 1 with 1w of night float). Prelims do not rotate in the MICU unless they wish, but I think categoricals do 1 month. The remainder of my schedule is 3m of electives (chosen by me), 1m of ER, and a month of PCC (outpatient primary care). We have a continuity clinic that we are scheduled for 4h/week.

Faculty: Faculty for the most part is friendly and approachable, but as with any program there are some characters that could never survive outside of academics. Most teams are staffed by subspecialists rotating through wards. Dr Slay (PD) actively works to make the program better. I believe a few years ago there were some ACGME violations, but no problems now and I'm not really sure what they were.

Didactics: 2 hours per day. Morning report weekdays from 8-9am. A team presents a case and the residents work though it with the assistance of staff. Interactive format with high yield info usually. Noon conference weekdays is more like the traditional lecture. Each month focuses on a subject (general, geriatrics, heme/onc, etc.). I have found these lectures to be mixed. Some are great, while others are a bit over my head and research heavy. We have journal club once a month at local restaurants. Grand rounds on Tuesdays in place of noon conference.

Area: Shreveport-Bossier are a pair of cities that split the Red River in NW Louisiana. I'm guessing the area has ~500K people. Located in a region known as the ArkLaTex, Shreveport seems more like Texas than the stereotypical Louisiana to me. Shreveport is a shipping crossroadsfor trucking and rail, where I-20 and I-49 meet. The largest industry in the town is gambling, with some riverboat casinos on the Red River. There is also a large GMC plant nearby, some oil refineries, and some telecomm companies. The casinos are a double-edged sword, as they bring in revenue and entertainment to the community, but also breed poverty and crime.
Shreveport is roughly 50/50 White/Black, Bossier is ~80/20 W/B. The majority of the population seen are poor black patients. Crime is somewhat high in Shreveport, but seems to occur in only a few areas which are easy to avoid. Housing seems very affordable after having lived in Florida. I bought a home built in 1999 in a gated community, 1600 sf 3/2 with fireplace on a 1/2 acre with a dock and bayou in the back for 168K.

Overall: I would recommend this program to anyone with ties to the area or those looking for a benign prelim year. Pay is in line with other programs (40.5K PGY-1). One perk I just remembered is that we receive $250/month for food on our hospital badges. There is a small rudimentary gym in the basement for med students and residents.

Feel free to PM me if more info wanted.

 

[Jitterbug79]

UTSW is an amazing place to be. The faculty here are enthusiastic and very personable, and the comraderie among the interns and residents is truly outstanding. In addition, we also do very well in the fellowship match. If you don't mind Dallas (I was actually surprised, but really like it!!) I would recommend coming here, although all the programs you mentioned above a great options. I don't think you can go wrong. Best of luck with the match!!

 

[stillhere]

UTSW is an amazing place to be. The faculty here are enthusiastic and very personable, and the comraderie among the interns and residents is truly outstanding. In addition, we also do very well in the fellowship match. If you don't mind Dallas (I was actually surprised, but really like it!!) I would recommend coming here, although all the programs you mentioned above a great options. I don't think you can go wrong. Best of luck with the match!!

are you a resident there? that's good to hear about UTSW b/c i'm interviewing there soon. but everytime i mention UTSW, people are telling me it's really "malignant", residents are not happy, and attendings are really mean. also i heard they kick out a rather large percentage of interns/residents every year for not meeting their expectations. i'm interested in the program b/c i want to move to dallas but i'm kinda scared since i keep hearing that the atmosphere is bad.

 

[Onco]

Bad atmosphere at UTSW?? Your info. source is incorrect. Did you interview there?

During my interview the residents said to me, loud and clear, that the faculty at UTSW are very very resident friendly. Among my 8 interviews, I would definitely give highest points to UTSW for 'the most friendly atmosphere'. The residents were happy, I can assure you.

My only *concern* was that the place is simply too big in Cardiology overshadowing the other subspecialities. You can find the whos who of Cardio in that department and certainly if Cardio is your thing than there is no better place for residency. The residents did assure me that other subs are not neglected. I will surely rank UTSW among my top choices.

 

[Jitterbug79]

Hey there,

Yes, I am a resident at UTSW, and I am happy to hear that Onco got that impression on interview day! I completely agree with this applicant. I absolutely love the program, and I am not even wanting to go into cards!! The other residents and interns are very happy as well. The faculty are super supportive and contribute significantly to you education and development as a physician. I have never had any faculty member so much as give me a "mean look", so whoever is telling you this info must be confused about their information. Although the cards here is exceptional (Dr. Hillis is again in the New England Journal of Medicine - see Jan 5, 2007 and Dec 7, 2006), the other subspecialties do extremely well in the match and can get into all the top fellowships around the country. In addition, your training in all the specialties is strong just because you see SO much at Parkland. You do 3-4 unit months as an intern which prepares you for taking care of just about any acute situation in any subspecialty, and each of the subspecialties have faculty who are internationally recognized. You can request whatever electives you choose and can often request to work with a specific attending. They will write you great letters if you are interested (that is why we do so well in the match - they are very well connected, and our residents are trained very well). If you have any other questions at all I would be happy to answer them! We look forward to seeing you on your interview day!!!

JB

 

[stillhere]

that's good to hear that UTSW has a friendly atmosphere. btw the information i got was from two medical students, one who was a student at UTSW and the other was a student that recently interviewed there. and also when i mentioned UTSW to a couple of my attendings they said that the program has a reputation of being malignant. however they also said residents are well trained there. but in the end, i'm gonna believe the last post since jitterbug79 is actually a resident there. thanks for your help

 

[Onco]

Hey there,

Yes, I am a resident at UTSW, and I am happy to hear that Onco got that impression on interview day! I completely agree with this applicant. I absolutely love the program, and I am not even wanting to go into cards!! The other residents and interns are very happy as well. The faculty are super supportive and contribute significantly to you education and development as a physician. I have never had any faculty member so much as give me a "mean look", so whoever is telling you this info must be confused about their information. Although the cards here is exceptional (Dr. Hillis is again in the New England Journal of Medicine - see Jan 5, 2007 and Dec 7, 2006), the other subspecialties do extremely well in the match and can get into all the top fellowships around the country. In addition, your training in all the specialties is strong just because you see SO much at Parkland. You do 3-4 unit months as an intern which prepares you for taking care of just about any acute situation in any subspecialty, and each of the subspecialties have faculty who are internationally recognized. You can request whatever electives you choose and can often request to work with a specific attending. They will write you great letters if you are interested (that is why we do so well in the match - they are very well connected, and our residents are trained very well). If you have any other questions at all I would be happy to answer them! We look forward to seeing you on your interview day!!!

JB

I think I might know you

Cheers, mate

 

[Jitterbug79]

Hey Onco!

Do I know you? If I do then I hope you come here next year! Don't be worried about not being a "cards person". I like it better that way. Best of luck! PM me with any extra questions you may have.

JB

 

[Jitterbug79]

Hey there - the medical school may be a different atmosphere from the residency. It is hard to say, b/c the UTSW graduates from my class are great. We definitely work hard in the residency program, but we learn alot along the way and make great friends in the process. Hope this helps.

 

[Onco]

Hey Onco!

Do I know you? If I do then I hope you come here next year! Don't be worried about not being a "cards person". I like it better that way. Best of luck! PM me with any extra questions you may have.

JB

Thanks buddy.. C'ya

 

[DaBigDawg]

I was a medical student at UAB and I interviewed at several of the programs listed so I'd like throw my 2 cents into this discussion.

In my very biased opinion, UAB's internal medicine program is one of the best in the country. I interviewed at some "big-name" programs.. including several in the south and most in the northeast and the only program I liked better than UAB was MGH.

Some positives:

Great fellowship placement. Top 5 ID and rheumatology programs. Top 10 cardiology program. The best fellows in the entire hospital are the pulmonary fellows. Don't know as much about the GI or renal program.

A very responsive program leadership.

Incredibly smart fellow residents.

Very diverse patient population -- 3 hospitals (VA, county, and university -- but all within 3 blocks of each other)

Low cost of living.

Take the time to visit and see if you like the city. I think Birmingham is a great city with a lot to do.

 

[DadofDr2B]

About the number of hospitals Emory residents cover (4 - but only a couple of months at Crawford Long over the entire 3 years), residents at both UAB and Baylor also spend significant time at 3 different hospitals.

Overnight calls are now q4 in the unit, q4 or q5 at Emory, q8 at Grady, q12? at VA. I was a sub-I at Grady earlier in the year, and this system is slightly different from what was in place when I did the subI. There is some scut for interns, mostly at VA and Grady, but nothing excessive. FWIW, I also did a sub-I at a west coast institution and I did not feel that Emory interns are worked significantly harder. Not being a resident, I cannot speak for the camaraderie at Emory, but I will say that I had a very fun month at Grady. My resident and interns treated me with respect; with the exception of not being able to sign orders/H&P, I was able to function just like an intern.

Finally, Emory has as good or better of a fellowship match list as some of the other major southern programs mentioned: UVa, Wake, UAB, UF, Baylor, Vandy, Mayo-Jax etc. Clinical training at Emory is excellent; there are programs that equal Emory in this aspect, but IMO none surpasses it. Reputation-wise, Duke and UTSW are the two truly elite programs in the south. However one likes to split hairs, UAB, Emory, Vanderbilt, UNC, and Baylor all have largely equivalent prestige, which is overall somewhat less than the highest elite group.

http://www.ajc.com/search/content/metro/stories/2008/01/25/medschools0125.html

Article on 1/30/2008 is not satisfying either.

 

[IgnacioChavez]

Jitterbug and Onco, good to hear atmosphere is nice, pretty excited about interview there for cards. They did exceptionally well in the cards fellowship match for 2008 (JHU, MGH, Stanford, UChicago among others).
With Baylor and Texas Heart splitting up their program, it looks like the UTSW program may be catching up...