Speaking with Deans...

[Pickle Salt]

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I just made an appointment with one of the Associate Deans of Admissions at my top choice med school. Basically I want to speak with her because I've heard so many people tell me to "rub elbows" with them and let them get to know you.

I just wanted to know if you guys have suggestions to questions I can ask her or topics I can bring up...

Also, what's the proper way to say, "Um, this is my number one choice and i'll do anything in the world to get into this school, even if it means kissing your asscheeks right here right now?"

Thx
di

 

[Diogenes]

Why did you make an appointment with him/her? What was the pretense for doing that? Do you have questions about the school that you really need answered? I'm pretty sure they know you are willing to kiss ass, but is that a good thing?

I don't see why kissing their ass for a few minutes would result in any benefit to your application. Do you think that so few people try to kiss their asses that they will make a speial effort to make sure that you get accepted? I can see the adcom meeting now: Dr So-and-so stands up and says, "I like this Johnny Whats-his-name. He's a good kid. He kissed my butt." And then the whole adcom murmurs and nods. "Yes," they say in unison, "let's accept Johnny."

 

[Jalby]

I really want to know what happens during this meeting. Can you videotape it???

 

[jot]

i think people can smell bs'ers and kissasses from a mile away - and don't like them (unless you luck you and he has some sort of napoleonic complex). have some legit questions - probably better than something you can dig up on their web site - and something you don't already know the answer to. i guess maybe say its your top choice, and what can you do to continue strengthening your app - i can't even imagine asking that. goodluck though

 

[Trek]

VERY VERY VERY bad idea if you are applying this cycle. You're gonna end up looking like a time-wasting brown noser. I have a bunch of friends that did this and it backfired on all except one. --Trek

 

[Pickle Salt]

Listen

Perhaps I should have made things a little clearer. My stats are right under the cut marks for interviews at this school. My intentions are not to brown-nose or kiss ass TOO much, but more to let the Admissions people know who I am, and what I've done before they reject me right off the bat.

This dean actually gave me her card and said if I had any questions to please visit with her. While my academics are impressive but not awesome, I want her to know about my 8 years of experience in many different medical arenas.

I have heard from more than 5 people - more than 5 - that getting to know their deans and admissions committee has helped and not hurt them. Her secretary told me this was a very common occurance with this lady and I have no regrets about making the appointment.

Now, any suggestions?

 

[Jalby]

Yup. Don't do it.

 

[Diogenes]

Originally posted by Pickle Salt
I have heard from more than 5 people - more than 5 - that getting to know their deans and admissions committee has helped and not hurt them.

On what basis did they make this assessment? Half of ALL people that apply get in to some med school. Some will talk to deans and some won't, and they will conclude that it helped or hurt based on whether or not they get in. People have a tendency to assume that their individual experiences are part of some wider trend, some universal phenomenon.

The type of person that would try to meet with deans is the type of person that would also do everything in their power to make their application shine -- spend lots of time doing ECs, study hard for a high GPA, and take prep courses to get a good MCAT. Let's see here: lots of ECs, and high GPA and MCAT. Hmmm... it must have been talking to the deans that got them in!

 

[Bikini Princess]

Originally posted by Trek
You're gonna end up looking like a time-wasting brown noser.

It depends on the school...schools always love plenty of enthusiasm about going to that particular school. On the other hand, I think that wasting the SOM dean's time may not be such a good idea either.

fyi - most of my med student friends say that kissing up is important in med school, especially during the clinical clerkships.

 

[bludeviled]

Pickle Salt
great idea to do this! - esp. b.c you sound very sincere about this school and b/c the meeting was arranged properly in a way that you know she's looking foreward to meeting you. At all times just be yourself and let your sincereity towards being a good doctor and attending this school as a means to achieve that goal show through. I met with top 5 school's Dean of admissions last fall before I went abroad b/c I had some legit questions about the logistics of applying [ being abroad during this process makes things more complicated] and re-taking my MCAT in order to maximize my competitiveness. Whether or not it helped (schmoozing/making connections-wise) I'm not sure. This isn't a school that needs to 'court' applicants. But the meeting certainly helped b/c I gained lots of valuble info and I know it didn't hurt at all b/c I not the BSing or brown-nosing type.

I'm sure you've already done this - but ask yourself what do I want from my medical career? (typical where do I see myself in 10 years from now essay question type of thinking) and access how this med school is going to put you on that path better than some other schools in case she asks you.

I would look nice and take along a portfolio and stuff to jot notes. Also if you have some good, solid questions, you can write them down and makes you look prepared and professional.

Can you produce significant supplementary materials from your experience (like are they artistic?) maybe you could ask her if they would accept a portfolio or something in evaluating you? This may be a good way to bring up your concerns about low stats and high qualifications.

Or if you were bold enough you could say
" Well, I'm here today because (name) is my top choice medical school and I just want to learn a little more about it and learn what I could do to improve my chances for admission. While I realize my stats are average for your school, my experiences doing (fill in) over the past 8 years has shown me that Ilike to do this-and-this in the future and I believe (name) is going to help me get there ..."

Hmmm, maybe thats too bold - I would access the way the conversation in going

Wow, sorry I have no idea how this got so long

Good luck and tell us how it went!


sincerely, bludeviled "Admissions Consultant"

 

[bludeviled]

Originally posted by Diogenes

The type of person that would try to meet with deans is the type of person that would also do everything in their power to make their application shine -- spend lots of time doing ECs, study hard for a high GPA, and take prep courses to get a good MCAT. Let's see here: lots of ECs, and high GPA and MCAT. Hmmm... it must have been talking to the deans that got them in! [/B]

hahaha good point

 

[Pickle Salt]

Thanks so much, bludeviled Your advice was awesome.

I agree with alot of you are saying; perhaps my visit will be seen as a "brownnosing" event. But my desire to attend this school is sincere and it's been my goal for many, many years. I've worked in its sister hospital for a very long time now and its nationally ranked HIV/AIDS clinic is attractive to me since I hope to study infectious diseases someday. While some of you think it's a bad idea, I really have nothing to lose, you know? My visit encourages her to review my file before tossing it on a tall pile of rejections due to MCAT/GPA.
As to the reference to the five individuals whose visit "helped" them....They knew it helped them with their chances of getting in because the deans thanked them and commended them on their visits. Not all schools look at dean appointments as a bad thing; as someone said before...there's nothing wrong with telling a school you'd really like to matriculate. It lets them know they're not wasting their time on you. Comments and advice still welcome I'll let you guys know how it goes.

 

[physicsMD]

I visited the dean for MSTP at Sinai, mostly becuase I had applied there for graduate school a few years ago and got in so I had spoken with her before. I also am in a graduate program now, and wanted to make sure it wouldn't hurt me when I applied. I wanted her to know that I had really enjoyed my experience at Sinai and that it was my first choice for MSTP, as well as ask her questions about the admissions process and residency stats of those doing MSTP. I told her what research I was interested in doing, and gave a list of the faculty members that also attracted me to Sinai. She seemed to like me, impressed that I had done my homework, and told me if I had any questions don't hesitate to call. I did this in April, I don't know if that makes a difference, but I don't see my experience as being a negative at all. I plan to keep contact with her through the admissions process so she remembers me. In my opinion, there is no paper substitute for a personal interaction. She got a clear sense of what I want to do, why I want to do it, and that I have the experience to back it up. These people have tough jobs in trying to cut down so many applicants, if you have a chance to show you are mature, intelligent, and capable even though your numbers are sub par then I would say by all means talk to the dean! But I warn, if you are not prepared and they get a bad impression of you from your meeting, I think it can hurt you.

 

[The Mysterious Stranger]

Originally posted by bludeviled
Pickle Salt
I met with top 5 school's Dean of admissions last fall before I went abroad b/c I had some legit questions about the logistics of applying [ being abroad during this process makes things more complicated] and re-taking my MCAT in order to maximize my competitiveness.

My one question is why do you need to speak with a Dean of Admissions to have any of these questions answered? I think what the others meant by "wasting the Dean's time" is that you can find the answers to these questions by hundreds of different avenues--your own premed advisor being one, health professions advisors at the school, the school website, catalogues...My father is a Dean at the Public Affairs school within the university he works at. While public affairs differs from medicine, and each school is different (I know my example isn't necessarily applicable to everyone...) the job is the same--my father is inundated with too much work to spend time answering questions that could be answered other ways. He too gives his card out to many people including professors interested in teaching at the school and potential applicants. However, he expects these people to use discretion in contacting him. If you can come up with questions that are unique to you, that no one else can answer, go for it! I really hope you get into your first choice school because it seems you're dedicated. Just really consider what you're doing first. Oh, and if it's your top-choice school, it's probably many people's top-choice school. Stating your reasons for attending the school and a portfolio seems to be things that are considered in the interview. Schools evaluate different factors at different steps--They start by only considering stats because less people have the "approptiate stats" than have the apropriate subjective experiences. Many, many, many applicants can provide reasons for wanting to attend the school that are as valid, if not more than, your's and many people have outstanding EC's. Your EC's sound phenomenal, and you sound like you're a great fit for the school--my point is that you're not the only one and it's really not a very strong reason for not eliminating you from an invite if you were to be eliminated. I hope if you do choose to interview it goes smoothly. The Dean sounds approachable. Good luck and let us know how wrong we were about the whole thing and how you get accepted into the program .

 

[conure]

If it is wasting their time they shouldn't take the meeting. The secretary should simply say the dean doesn't meet with prospective students.

I don't agree, I think its their job. They should be more than willing to meet students and discuss the school with them. If a student has the balls to ask for the meeting than meet with them. They represent the school and as such they should be willing to talk with anyone about it.

Meet with them and be prepared.

 

[The Mysterious Stranger]

I know most schools vary in their procedures, but how much influence does the Dean have on the admissions process? For schools that have 2,000+ applicants it seems unrealistic for the Dean to review all files of rejectees. I think I've read one school that stated such that but then again AMCAS also claims your app will be processed in a timely manner. I think this is the point of having an ADCOM--it is unrealistic for one person to evaluate all applicants. Having spoken to friends who applied this past cycle who considered making appointments with Deans--some friends stated that they were denied an appointment when they tried to make one with the Dean at some schools. They were told that it would be unfair to the other applicants. This makes me wonder if Deans who do take appoinments are not involved with the actuall process of admitting and rejecting studnts. Any thoughts????