special diets and deployment

[rkaz]

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Is it possible to avoid those ready-to-eat meals in the military? Obviously when you are at home, you can eat whatever you want. But if you are deployed or drilling, do you have to eat what they give you? In my case, I happen to be vegan. But I can see other people having issues, such as those on gluten-free or peanut-free diets. I am thinking about joining the military soon. Although it won't be 7-8 years before I'd have to deploy anyways, at least I am considering it now - because it would be awful to be committed to something, and get stuck due to food issues. I don't expect the military to necessarily have vegan meals (though it would be nice). However, if they at least had salads, and gave me the option to bring in my own cereal bars, vegan protein bars etc, or allowed my family to ship me some dried vegan foods overseas - I know I could make it work. Thoughts?

On a related note, are you required to get those leather boots they have, or are there any companies that make military style non-leather boots that would be allowed?

 

[sethco]

At most deployed locations (that physicians are at), there are Dining Facilities or DFAC for short. They usually provide a well balanced diet, even for vegetarians/vegans.

However, MREs also come in Vegetarian varities, but they are pretty disgusting. You may have to eat MREs during officer or other field training courses. They will usually ask beforehand if you have any dietary restrictions.

Leather boots are issued items.

 

[backrow]

The best piece of advice I can give anyone with beliefs and lifestyles that are different from the typical service member is to think very hard about what the pro's and con's are of joining.

There was a thread on here not long ago in which someone was wondering about religious services and alot of the same advice would apply for you as well. If you are willing to be flexible the military will likely work for you. You will likely be required to wear some sort of leather products at some point in your career. You will also likely run into situations where there may be no vegan options for food. If you are okay with this happening every once in a while then you will likely be fine. If you absolutely cannot have this happen at any point then I would recommend thinking long and hard about joining the military.

 

[Gastrapathy]

People with celiac or severe food allergies are often not world-wide deployable. I've seen celiac handled a number of ways but its not really well-suited for service.

In nearly every situation, vegetarian meal options would be available to you. Whether they meet strict criteria as vegan, I have no clue.

Just a question...if you are uncomfortable with the thought of wearing leather (presumably because of the killing of cows), why are you thinking about joining an organization that blows stuff/people up?

 

[tsbuqh]

We had a ridder on our sub who was a vegan. He got really skinny and malnurished on deployment. The cooks did not go out of their way for him since he was not part of ships crew (and a little prone to thowing fits). He could usually scare up some white rice and canned veggies.

As a doctor, you pobably won't find yourself in that kind of situation. But if you do, make sure you are really nice to the cooks. They have the means to keep you nourished, but will they have the desire....

 

[TheGoose]

People with celiac or severe food allergies are often not world-wide deployable. I've seen celiac handled a number of ways but its not really well-suited for service.

wouldn't celiac or food allergies be a disqualifying condition to begin with?

Just a question...if you are uncomfortable with the thought of wearing leather (presumably because of the killing of cows), why are you thinking about joining an organization that blows stuff/people up?

i was thinking the same thing. maybe it's judgmental but I can't picture someone who doesn't wear leather due to ideology meshing well with the military system

 

[Gastrapathy]

wouldn't celiac or food allergies be a disqualifying condition to begin with?

Yes and I have no idea about the prevalence of severe food allergies in the AD population. But we see lots of celiac. I probably diagnose a case every month or so and, off the top of my head, half those have been AD.

 

[Gastrapathy]

I had been wondering the same as I am also vegan. 🙂

It is often not possible to avoid MRE's. You don't get to pack whatever you want in various operational settings and you are out there for too long to count on your family as your supply chain.

I actually found the vegetarian MRE's tolerable. I'm an omnivore (with no dilemma) but they were good for a change.

And if you are only joining the military because we only kill people who deserve it, I'd recommend reading the news. This is NOT a criticism of our operators but the basic recognition that what they do is really really hard.

 

[rkaz]

The military does not (well, is not supposed to) kill innocent people. Protecting and saving lives are good reasons for anyone to join the military, including vegans.

Yes, I was interested in being a physician in the military simply to support wounded servicemen by providing them medical care.... not to go out and kill people. Thus, I didn't have a moral conflict with it.

I was just thinking though about another ethical issue - as physicians are ethically bound to treat patients regardless of their particular background, lifestyle, criminal history etc. However, are military physicians only allowed to treat members of their own country's troops? Thus, I take it if you encounter a wounded member of the insurgents (assuming their is conflict between countries), then you are just supposed to let that person die? I assume organizations like the Red Cross would be a lot more neutral than the US military when it comes to deciding who to provide medical care to, and who not to. I'd be interested in finding more about this though. Ok, I've just hijacked my own thread...

 

[rkaz]

I actually found the vegetarian MRE's tolerable. I'm an omnivore (with no dilemma) but they were good for a change.

I mean no criticism at all here, but if you eat meat - isn't best to leave the vegetarian MRE's alone?.... as if there is a shortage of vegetarian MREs, then a vegetarian might get stuck with nothing to eat because the omnivores already ate them all.

On the other hand, who knows, maybe it is a good idea for non-vegetarians to also eat them... as then the military will realize that a greater supply of vegetarian MREs are needed, and thus will supply more...

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

I mean no criticism at all here, but if you eat meat - isn't best to leave the vegetarian MRE's alone?.... as if there is a shortage of vegetarian MREs, then a vegetarian might get stuck with nothing to eat because the omnivores already ate them all.

On the other hand, who knows, maybe it is a good idea for non-vegetarians to also eat them... as then the military will realize that a greater supply of vegetarian MREs are needed, and thus will supply more...

As long as you treat yourself as special with special needs that make you deserve special circumstances (i.e. you should preserve all vegetarian meals for people like me who choose not to eat other meals) then you will struggle in the military.

Just sayin

 

[Gastrapathy]

Yes, I was interested in being a physician in the military simply to support wounded servicemen by providing them medical care.... not to go out and kill people. Thus, I didn't have a moral conflict with it.

I was just thinking though about another ethical issue - as physicians are ethically bound to treat patients regardless of their particular background, lifestyle, criminal history etc. However, are military physicians only allowed to treat members of their own country's troops? Thus, I take it if you encounter a wounded member of the insurgents (assuming their is conflict between countries), then you are just supposed to let that person die? I assume organizations like the Red Cross would be a lot more neutral than the US military when it comes to deciding who to provide medical care to, and who not to. I'd be interested in finding more about this though. Ok, I've just hijacked my own thread...

Second question first. The Geneva convention requires that we provide care to combatants on both sides of a regular war. This is difficult to do in an irregular war and is certainly a source of tension and conflict.

Now, as for your first point. We all function to support the line. When you're home taking care of dependents, you are providing support that makes it possible for the operators to do the killing and drop the bombs. Personally, I'm OK with that.

 

[DH78]

I actually found the vegetarian MRE's tolerable. I'm an omnivore (with no dilemma) but they were good for a change.

Nice to have a bit of humor around here, is all!

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Although I understand your message, I somehow don't think you would be saying it to a Hindu.

Right, but you're not a Hindu and I said it to you.

 

[rkaz]

I knew a guy last year who is vegan and in the army, though I have lost touch with him and thus can't ask him all my questions that I want answered. I think he was flexible though... since he used the shoes. I don't know if he ever ended up eating those vegetarian MREs or not. I know he had a wonderful friend who frequently mailed him packages of food overseas. He said he would eat a lot of salads from the mess hall. So I know one can accommodate oneself to a certain degree - I'm just not sure if a fully vegan lifestyle would be able to be maintained or not.

 

[rkaz]

As long as you treat yourself as special with special needs that make you deserve special circumstances (i.e. you should preserve all vegetarian meals for people like me who choose not to eat other meals) then you will struggle in the military.

Just sayin

If you actually happened to know me in person, you'd know that in most aspects of life, I am one of the most flexible, understanding, and accommodating people you'd ever come across. So even if I was in the military, it's not like I wouldn't have good rapport with my peers, and would totally have their backs and be flexible with them in every way I could. I'd also think that most of them would do the same for me.

However, this isn't an issue of being flexible. Being flexible for someone who eats meat is just a matter of taste preferences, like letting your friend who wants the chicken sandwich have that and you can just take the turkey sandwich instead - since it really doesn't matter in the end. But treating vegetarianism/veganism as mere taste preferences (for those who are 'ethical vegetarians' and not those so-called vegetarians who still eat fish or chicken)... you can't compare those on the same level. And telling people just to not go into the military if they have these values is an easy way to just blow things off without really looking into the issue. Unless you are suggesting here that military folks are just complete conformists with no ability to think for themselves about what is right or not....

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

You actually didn't say it to me. You said it to rkaz.

But regardless, why would you treat someone different based on their religion or lack there of?

Don't twist my words around. If someone has a religous reason for doing something that is typically held in higher regard (by most of society) than somebody just not wanting to do something.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

If you actually happened to know me in person, you'd know that in most aspects of life, I am one of the most flexible, understanding, and accommodating people you'd ever come across. So even if I was in the military, it's not like I wouldn't have good rapport with my peers, and would totally have their backs and be flexible with them in every way I could. I'd also think that most of them would do the same for me.

However, this isn't an issue of being flexible. Being flexible for someone who eats meat is just a matter of taste preferences, like letting your friend who wants the chicken sandwich have that and you can just take the turkey sandwich instead - since it really doesn't matter in the end. But treating vegetarianism/veganism as mere taste preferences (for those who are 'ethical vegetarians' and not those so-called vegetarians who still eat fish or chicken)... you can't compare those on the same level. And telling people just to not go into the military if they have these values is an easy way to just blow things off without really looking into the issue. Unless you are suggesting here that military folks are just complete conformists with no ability to think for themselves about what is right or not....

You asked if the military would accomodate your special diet. We said no. You can make other inferences if you want, and try to turn this into some sort of lifestyle-crusade. But that's not what happened.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Unless you are suggesting here that military folks are just complete conformists with no ability to think for themselves about what is right or not....

If you aren't a "complete conformist" when you sign, you will be by the time you become useful. The military WANTS conformists. Those who don't conform struggle.

There are other ways to serve your country and pay for med school without causing you endless problems. Do yourself a favor and check those out.

All that said, I have never been put in a situation where a vegan would become malnourished. Possibly slightly inconvenienced, but you wouldn't go hungry. But I have friends who have been way out there, even as docs, where it could be a problem.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

All that said, I have never been put in a situation where a vegan would become malnourished. Possibly slightly inconvenienced, but you wouldn't go hungry. But I have friends who have been way out there, even as docs, where it could be a problem.

My SMO on the ship was a vegan he lost 10 pounds in 4 weeks due to lack of options (He was only 145 to start)

 

[NavyFP]

My SMO on the ship was a vegan he lost 10 pounds in 4 weeks due to lack of options (He was only 145 to start)

As tiresome as it can be.......there is almost always PB&J.

 

[Gastrapathy]

As tiresome as it can be.......there is almost always PB&J.

Peanuts feel pain too.

 

[Caprica6]

OP, please don't take this as a critism, but some of you comments, such as will I only be treating US servicemen, and can I rely on my family to send me food/pack my own, make me concerned that you have not done enough reseach into joining the military. I guess that is one of the reasons you are on this forum, but please obtain as much information as possible and think long and hard before joining. I think there are a lot of disgruntled milmed docs out there that were either mislead by recruiters, didn't make an informed decision, or signed the dotted line with out being 100% certain this was the correct choice for them to make.

 

[rkaz]

OP, please don't take this as a critism, but some of you comments, such as will I only be treating US servicemen, and can I rely on my family to send me food/pack my own, make me concerned that you have not done enough reseach into joining the military. I guess that is one of the reasons you are on this forum, but please obtain as much information as possible and think long and hard before joining. I think there are a lot of disgruntled milmed docs out there that were either mislead by recruiters, didn't make an informed decision, or signed the dotted line with out being 100% certain this was the correct choice for them to make.

Yes, I don't have much information since no one in my family is in the military. If I wanted biased information, I would have spoken to a recruiter. But since I wanted to get information from multiple people (to get a well-rounded perspective), that's why I'm here. So being here IS my attempt to get information. Like I said, I know there are vegans in the military, and since I previously heard one telling me that he gets stuffed shipped to him, I know it can be done. I just wasn't sure how easy it would be or not - which is why I asked the questions I did in the first place.

Peanuts feel pain too.

I don't doubt this. I have heard of research going on showing that plants have some ability to feel pain. However, from the limited information I have, my assumption is that the pain plants feel would be substantially less than what animals feel (due to animals far more developed nervous systems). Thus I eat plants. And if I am truly attempting to be ethical, that also means I have a responsibility to not eat excessively (even vegan food) - since that would be plants unneccesarily being caused pain as well. And taking it further, that also means I should be focused on buying primarily organic, locally-grown, fair-trade produce so that farmers aren't being exploited or 'pained' as well. And yes, I am very much conscientious of these things and trying to eat within this framework. Anyway, it wasn't my interest in turning this thread into a debate on my personal ethics, as I am simply here to get information. But that's my reply since you bring this up.

Anyway, it seems this thread has mostly run its course, since I don't know if I'll get any more constructive information. But if any other vegans in the military see this at a later date (or people knowing about vegan friendly options), please kindly do post - as I'd love to know what my choices would be. Thanks.

 

[Sarg's kid]

Just to kick in here, from my limited understanding...

The crux of what is being said here is that, while the military will make efforts to make you comfortable and happy in your service, this is not a guarantee. To be frank, the needs of the mission come first. Military service will mean that you will have to sacrifice your preferences at times in order to accomplish your mission. I respect your desire to be a responsible eater (no joking), but you should be prepared to end up eating whatever is available at some point, even if it does not conform with your normal preferences. There were, after all, battalion surgeons at Khe Sanh (the implication being that it is possible and should be considered that you may end up cut off, surrounded and undersupplied of things like ammunition some day, and dietary issues will not be considered).

If you can accept the probability that you won't ALWAYS be able to eat vegan/vegetarian, then you will be fine.

...Not that it is impossible to never have to compromise on dietary issues, but you should be prepared to compromise.