Specialty Boarded vs PhD

[micro555]

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Hi All,

I'm new to the SDN, so I hope this post is in the right place. I'm wondering how residency vs. PhD programs work in veterinary medicine. I'm considering doing a residency and specializing after vet school. While I don't know exactly which specialty I want to pursue quite yet, I'm seriously considering vet ophthalmology. It seems like in some vet specialties/programs you complete coursework for a PhD or MS concurrently with preparing for the board exam, but it seems to vary from program to program. So what I'm wondering is...

Do you get boarded for a specialty and complete your PhD concurrently?
Can you become boarded in a specialty without a PhD?
How long does it take to graduate typically from these programs?

Thanks for the info,
Cheers!

 

[jmo1012]

Hi All,

I'm new to the SDN, so I hope this post is in the right place. I'm wondering how residency boarded vs. PhD programs work in veterinary medicine. I'm considering doing a residency and specializing after vet school. While I don't know exactly which specialty I want to pursue quite yet, I'm seriously considering vet ophthalmology. It seems like in some vet specialties/programs you complete coursework for a PhD or MS concurrently with preparing for the board exam, but it seems to vary from program to program. So what I'm wondering is...

Do you get boarded for a specialty and complete your PhD concurrently?
Can you become boarded in a specialty without a PhD?
How long does it take to graduate typically from these programs?

Thanks for the info,
Cheers!

Do you get boarded for a specialty and complete your PhD concurrently? can you? yes, do you have to? no.
Can you become boarded in a specialty without a PhD? yes, although depending on what you want to do ultimately, it may be a requirement (such as working in academia)
How long does it take to graduate typically from these programs? residencies are 3 years in length, combined phd programs...not sure? probably depends on the program and your research and such. prior to residency comes 1+ internships (ophtho is a tough field to get into, and is quickly moving into needing a rotating and specialty internship to get a residency

 

[micro555]

Are there jobs outside of academia where you would need a PhD? Could you get more money with a PhD if you had a private practice somehow? It seems like the opportunity cost of spending many years doing research would exceed how much more you could make in private practice.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Combined residency/PhD programs are generally around 5-6 years, assuming everything goes well. If you want to be in academia, the PhD is becoming more and more of a necessity, especially for certain specialties.

Getting a Master's during residency is becoming common in almost all specialties. It generally takes no extra time outside the 3 yrs of residency and is a "light" Masters (i.e. usually clinical research, not hardcore bench/basic science)

Are there jobs outside of academia where you would need a PhD?

Government and industry sometimes, although again it depends on the specialty and the job

ACould you get more money with a PhD if you had a private practice somehow? It seems like the opportunity cost of spending many years doing research would exceed how much more you could make in private practice.

A PhD will not help in private practice.

 

[racccjlm]

I don't know of any ophthalmology residencies that have a PhD as part of the program. Some residency programs do require a Masters degree completion. Others would likely have the ability to work a PhD in - i.e. at UC Davis.

Several suggestions if you're interested in vet ophtho, get involved in research now....
1) Try to become first author on at least a case report, if not a retrospective/prospective study.
2) Contact your school's ophthalmologists and see if they have any projects you can get involved with.
3) Go to the ACVO meeting (annual).
4) Besides having your ophthalmology rotation, do your best to get out and do externships/preceptorships in a private practice.
5) Keep your grades up.
6) Volunteer in your school's ophtho club, or start one if there isn't one.
7) Get excellent references

Ophtho residencies are 3-4 years depending on the program.

And after all of that - hope that you know someone, at the right time, that has the right connections, to get you in. More and more it is very common to do an ophthalmology internship prior to obtaining a residency. I know multiple people that have had to do several ophtho internships, or an an internship and research fellowship, etc. You don't have to follow all of the steps above, as there are multiple ways to approach applying for a residency...but those are all things that residency programs look at. Good luck!!

 

[micro555]

Combined residency/PhD programs are generally around 5-6 years, assuming everything goes well. If you want to be in academia, the PhD is becoming more and more of a necessity, especially for certain specialties.

Wow, this is interesting that you can get boarded as well as getting a PhD (assuming everything goes well). I'm just curious why getting a PhD on its own is 5-6 years vs. getting barded + PhD is also 5 -6 years. Is this because usually you are not doing "basic" science, but have more clinical studies or something?

 

[micro555]

I don't know of any ophthalmology residencies that have a PhD as part of the program. Some residency programs do require a Masters degree completion. Others would likely have the ability to work a PhD in - i.e. at UC Davis.

Several suggestions if you're interested in vet ophtho, get involved in research now....
1) Try to become first author on at least a case report, if not a retrospective/prospective study.
2) Contact your school's ophthalmologists and see if they have any projects you can get involved with.
3) Go to the ACVO meeting (annual).
4) Besides having your ophthalmology rotation, do your best to get out and do externships/preceptorships in a private practice.
5) Keep your grades up.
6) Volunteer in your school's ophtho club, or start one if there isn't one.
7) Get excellent references

Ophtho residencies are 3-4 years depending on the program.

And after all of that - hope that you know someone, at the right time, that has the right connections, to get you in. More and more it is very common to do an ophthalmology internship prior to obtaining a residency. I know multiple people that have had to do several ophtho internships, or an an internship and research fellowship, etc. You don't have to follow all of the steps above, as there are multiple ways to approach applying for a residency...but those are all things that residency programs look at. Good luck!!

Thanks for all these suggestions - I'm curious why it is getting so competitive? Are all specialties this competitive?

 

[racccjlm]

Nope - ophtho, cardio, derm, and probably a few others outside of my knowledge area are all incredibly competitive at the moment. Surgery, medicine, and other specialties are competitive too, but there are more of them.

For ophtho, there were around 12 residencies this year through the VIRMP match and ORCA (the ACVO's own residency kind of match program listed on their website). Internships around the same. Everyone is recognizing the competitiveness of the field, and are therefore upping their game - making it more and more difficult to get one. One of my mentors made the comment that they never would have obtained a residency in today's world with the resume they had back then.

Anyway, not sharing this to scare you away - but if you're interested in ophtho - I found all of the above suggestions from various people in the profession very helpful. You can't get discouraged your first time applying, and need to have back up plans B and C in the wings while waiting to apply for residencies again the following year.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Wow, this is interesting that you can get boarded as well as getting a PhD (assuming everything goes well). I'm just curious why getting a PhD on its own is 5-6 years vs. getting barded + PhD is also 5 -6 years. Is this because usually you are not doing "basic" science, but have more clinical studies or something?

Usually you start doing research in your third year of residency as a head start. You can also usually apply course credit from vet school to offset the (graded) class requirements needed for the PhD, which can knock a semester or two off. Also remember, just the virtue of having a DVM and specialization often gives you a head start in terms of the "soft skills" a PhD requires (e.g. organization, critical thinking, etc) that takes people straight out of undegrad a longer time to grasp on average. They are still most often basic science, though - so time is very dependent on the success of the research.

Mine will probably take about 7 total because I switched institutions between residency and PhD (3 yr residency (done), 4yr PhD (~2 down) hopefully)

 

[vetneuroperson]

Hi All,

I'm new to the SDN, so I hope this post is in the right place. I'm wondering how residency vs. PhD programs work in veterinary medicine. I'm considering doing a residency and specializing after vet school. While I don't know exactly which specialty I want to pursue quite yet, I'm seriously considering vet ophthalmology. It seems like in some vet specialties/programs you complete coursework for a PhD or MS concurrently with preparing for the board exam, but it seems to vary from program to program. So what I'm wondering is...

Do you get boarded for a specialty and complete your PhD concurrently?
Can you become boarded in a specialty without a PhD?
How long does it take to graduate typically from these programs?

Thanks for the info,
Cheers!

What are you looking to specialize in exactly?

I have very little experience in the world of research and academia (aside from, you know, going to vet school) but I think it's as simple as this:
You want to work in academia or research? Do a PhD
You want to work in private practice? Don't bother with a PhD.