Specialty training and how the school you choose can affect it

[krmower]

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As you consider schools to apply to, one thing to consider is whether or not they provide GPA or class ranking. If the school you are going to (or considering) does not provide both of these - it can have an impact on applying for specialties.

One of the things that boards look at when selecting for specialties is your GPA and class ranking. Some schools do not provide one or the other (or both). This will put you at an immediate dissadvantage when applying to civilian or military specialties. You may still be able to specialize, but it may take some time in the military to provide another aspect for the board to look at.

 

[agent2362]

As you consider schools to apply to, one thing to consider is whether or not they provide GPA or class ranking. If the school you are going to (or considering) does not provide both of these - it can have an impact on applying for specialties.

One of the things that boards look at when selecting for specialties is your GPA and class ranking. Some schools do not provide one or the other (or both). This will put you at an immediate dissadvantage when applying to civilian or military specialties. You may still be able to specialize, but it may take some time in the military to provide another aspect for the board to look at.

Does the military look at the school which you attend or strictly GPA and class ranking and Part 1 scores? Some of the best schools with the best specialization rates are either p/f (Columbia, UCLA, UCSF) or do not rank past the first ten spots (U Penn). I know big names do not carry heavy weight like they do in other fields (law, business, ect), but I would think that given all other things similar between two students, it would give them the edge.

 

[agent2362]

One of the reasons I pushed for UoP had to do with the chance to take Part I before it goes Pass/Fail (which I wont be able to do if I go to Penn) and the fact that UoP ranks its entire class and U Penn only does the first ten spots.

Does the military really rely that heavy on GPA? That is really not a good indicator. For instance, according to many students at Penn, there is grade inflation there and a high number of students have 3.8+ (even though they do no make the top ten), while according to armorshell (who goes to UoP and matched into OMFS at Parkland), if you have a 3.7 at UoP then you are likely ranked in the top 5 spots.

At the top schools, class rank competition for the top 25% can be fierce when you have such a large number of exemplary students, maybe that's why the top schools are p/f.

I think that a #3 ranking at a school like UoP or U Penn is a far cry from a #3 at your given state school. For that reason, I certainly hope the school you get your undergraduate dental training makes even a little difference.

 

[krmower]

Does the military look at the school which you attend or strictly GPA and class ranking and Part 1 scores? Some of the best schools with the best specialization rates are either p/f (Columbia, UCLA, UCSF) or do not rank past the first ten spots (U Penn). I know big names do not carry heavy weight like they do in other fields (law, business, ect), but I would think that given all other things similar between two students, it would give them the edge.

They look at everything they can. School prestige/name would figure less into it. If I'm on a board and see someone that went to Pittsburgh and were ranked 15/85 in their class and they had a GPA of 3.4, that will tell me a lot more than someone who went to Penn but may not have a class ranking and/or GPA because their school just does pass/fail. I do not know what either school really uses - it was just an example. The more concrete info the board has, the better your chances.

 

[umkcdds]

it's too bad that going to one of these "elite" schools, or having a great GPA and having a high class rank, doesn't translate into clinical competence or clinical skill, or critical thinking skills, or being able to apply book knowledge to actual clinical situations.

 

[Lifetime2Drill]

it's too bad that going to one of these "elite" schools, or having a great GPA and having a high class rank, doesn't translate into clinical competence or clinical skill, or critical thinking skills, or being able to apply book knowledge to actual clinical situations.

In other words you guys suck!!! Burn Biatches!!!

 

[agent2362]

In other words you guys suck!!! Burn Biatches!!!

Yea thats why elite schools like Penn, UoP, Ucla, harvard, columbia and uw send more people into omfs and ortho than your typical state dental school send into all the specialties combined. Not saying you cant specialize from your given state school. Just a whole heck of a lot more people dong it from those schools....seriously...Columbia sends more people into OMFS and penn into ortho than some schools send into all specialties.

 

[umkcdds]

Yea thats why elite schools like Penn, UoP, Ucla, harvard, columbia and uw send more people into omfs and ortho than your typical state dental school send into all the specialties combined. Not saying you cant specialize from your given state school. Just a whole heck of a lot more people dong it from those schools....seriously...Columbia sends more people into OMFS and penn into ortho than some schools send into all specialties.

....but being book smart does not translate into clinical competence. just because the "elite" school students can memorize a textbook and do well on exams, doesn't mean they can actually apply that knowledge to a clinical setting to be a good oral surgeon or orthodontist. it just makes them a smart one. i'd rather be a great clinician than be a great test-taker. i'd rather my childrens' surgeon or orthodontist be a great clinician instead of just having a diploma from Columbia on the wall.

 

[agent2362]

....but being book smart does not translate into clinical competence. just because the "elite" school students can memorize a textbook and do well on exams, doesn't mean they can actually apply that knowledge to a clinical setting to be a good oral surgeon or orthodontist. it just makes them a smart one. i'd rather be a great clinician than be a great test-taker. i'd rather my childrens' surgeon or orthodontist be a great clinician instead of just having a diploma from Columbia on the wall.

I agree totally. It may be an inherent flaw of the system since book smarts do not necessarily translate to clinical competence. However, the people who excel at tests are also people who are very diligent at what they do. You cannot rely on genius alone to keep you top dog in the didactic courses. Didactic courses and sim lab/clinic work both take an enormous amount of commitment for the majority of people if they are going to do them well.

I would guess that most specialty administrators typically think that someone who is willing to put in the time into the didactic courses is also doing the same in lab. I think dental school is more about effort invested than about natural genius getting you through all the time.

 

[krmower]

I agree totally. It may be an inherent flaw of the system since book smarts do not necessarily translate to clinical competence. However, the people who excel at tests are also people who are very diligent at what they do. You cannot rely on genius alone to keep you top dog in the didactic courses. Didactic courses and sim lab/clinic work both take an enormous amount of commitment for the majority of people if they are going to do them well.

I would guess that most specialty administrators typically think that someone who is willing to put in the time into the didactic courses is also doing the same in lab. I think dental school is more about effort invested than about natural genius getting you through all the time.

Remember that this thread is about military specialization - not civilian. Civilian programs may way some schools heavier than others - I have not seen the same in the military.