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Pt present for femoral endarterectomy and has bad copd. Normal preop coags and not on blood thinner. spinal. Give 5000 unit heparin intraop.
Problem?
Problem?
Pt present for femoral endarterectomy and has bad copd. Normal preop coags and not on blood thinner. spinal. Give 5000 unit heparin intraop.
Problem?
Only if you didn't wait an hour from needle to heparinization time. Would also be a little wary heparinizing if it was traumatic at all.
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http://www.nysora.com/mobile/region...-of-ra/3300-ra-in-anticoagulated-patient.html
Intravenous Heparin
Heparin is a complex polysaccharide that exerts its anti- coagulant effect by binding to antithrombin III. The conformational change in antithrombin accelerates its ability to inactivate thrombin, factor Xa, and factor IXa. The anticoagulant effect of subcutaneous heparin takes 1 to 2 hours, but the effect of intravenous heparin is immediate. Heparin has a half-life of 1.5 to 2 hours. The activated partial thromboplastin time (aPTT) is used to monitor the effect of heparin; therapeutic anticoagulation is achieved with a prolongation of the aPTT to >1.5 times the baseline value.
There were no spinal hematomas in >4000 patients who underwent lower extremity vascular surgery under contin- uous spinal or epidural anesthesia.(22) In this study, patients with preexisting coagulation disorders were excluded, heparinization occurred at least 60 minutes after cath- eter placement, the level of anticoagulation was carefully monitored, and the indwelling catheters were removed at a time when heparin activity was low. Ruff and Dougherty (23) noted the occurrence of spinal hematomas in patients who underwent lumbar puncture with subsequent hepa- rinization. The presence of blood during the procedure, concomitant aspirin therapy, and heparinization within 1 hour were identified as risk factors for the development of a spinal hematoma.
When intraoperative anticoagulation is planned, neuraxial technique should be avoided in patients with coexisting coagulopathies. The following considerations are in order:
1. There should be at least a 1-hour delay between needle placement and heparin administration.
2. The catheter should be removed 1 hour before subsequent heparin administration and 2 to 4 hours after the last heparin dose.(4)
3. The partial thromboplastin time or activated clotting time should be monitored to avoid excessive heparin effect.
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One hour is not practical unless surgeon is willing to wait around. Closer to 30 minutes is likely.
I know what the Asra guideline says, but I want y'all opinion on this.
My issue with the asra guideline is that it treats epidural, spinal, and even peripheral nerve blocks the same. And it's based mostly on expert opinions and not real evidence. I would argue that the risk of epidural hematoma after a spinal is negligible in someone with normal coagulation, even if they get 5000 units of heparin 30 minutes later.
Guidelines are guidelines, patients should be treated differently based on their situation. How often have we ignore asra guideline when it comes to peripheral nerve blocks?
I know what you mean, but in my mind there's a BIG difference between taking a chance with a PNB vs a neuraxial procedure.Guidelines are guidelines, patients should be treated differently based on their situation. How often have we ignore asra guideline when it comes to peripheral nerve blocks?
Pt present for femoral endarterectomy and has bad copd. Normal preop coags and not on blood thinner. spinal. Give 5000 unit heparin intraop.
Problem?
We almost always put lumbar drains in before tevar. Granted more than one hour elapses before the patients are heparinized. But we haven't encountered a spinal hematoma yet. The 1 hour rule seems completely arbitrary and unscientific. Why not 45 min or 65 min?
Exactly! I would argue that big ass touhy, an indwelling catheter plus big heparin dose 1 hour later is much riskier than a small spinal needle and a smaller heparin dose 30 minutes later. Yet the asra guideline would support the former practice and not the later.
25G or 22G non cutting needle should be much safer and less traumatic than a 20G Q or 17G Epidural needle. But, the recommendations by ASRA still stand.
No problemPt present for femoral endarterectomy and has bad copd. Normal preop coags and not on blood thinner. spinal. Give 5000 unit heparin intraop.
Problem?
I love to hear people say things like this, that they'd be comfortable doing a procedure if it's "just one pass". But how do you know it will be? What do you do if your single pass fails? Even easy-looking patients and procedures surprise us sometimes.Wouldn't/haven't think/thought twice about it. A clean single pass with a 24 or 25 GA needle? Even if the heparin were 30 minutes later, which would be pretty common.
For the sake of discussion since everyone is saying "no heme" what would you do if you get blood through the needle? The damage is already done so you must cancel the case right? (probably no one has done this..)
I love to hear people say things like this, that they'd be comfortable doing a procedure if it's "just one pass". But how do you know it will be? What do you do if your single pass fails? Even easy-looking patients and procedures surprise us sometimes.
So what do you do? One more clean single pass? Then one more? Abort, do something else?
For the sake of discussion since everyone is saying "no heme" what would you do if you get blood through the needle? The damage is already done so you must cancel the case right? (probably no one has done this..)
Like Blade said, heme: wait one hour before heparin. No heme: just do the case OR dont choose spinal as your plan for peripheral vascular cases.