spine surgery question

[maybeortho]

If anyone could offer some valuable info about spine surgery, I would really appreciate it. There seem to be some huge upsides of subspecializing into spine (huge demand, very high salaries), but why do so many orthos not do a spine fellowship? Basically, what are the positives of becoming a spine surgeon (any info on relative salaries and future salaries would be nice) and what are the negatives (how is their lifestyle)? Thanks a lot

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[dry dre]

This question has been asked and answered several times. Please check the archives.

 

[maybeortho]

Well I've seen some thing about salaries, but not so much in the way of lifestyle. Also, I'm interested in what the future of spine surgery will be. I searched for these topics and didn't find them, but if they exist I apologize.

 

[dry dre]

Well I've seen some thing about salaries, but not so much in the way of lifestyle. Also, I'm interested in what the future of spine surgery will be. I searched for these topics and didn't find them, but if they exist I apologize.

In short, no one in any field of medicine makes a lot of money doing clinical/surgical work without putting in a lot of hours. 50+ easy, often 60+. Lifestyle? The work largely dictates your lifestyle. You do it because you like doing it, even if you got paid much less.

Future of... Reimbursements across the board are going down. You can cherry pick for positive wallet biopsies, but this is ethically questionable.

No offense dude, but you must realize that there are oodles of people who come and go asking about money and lifestyle. Rarely does somone ask about the work that is done. If you love the work, there will always be cases waiting for you...what else is there to consider?

 

[Nagar]

At last someone who is in ortho (if I m not wrong) for the correct reasons and not because of the money.
As an IMG I must say that although I admire the american medicine, huge part of medical students and physicians do medicine (and ortho) because of the money and not because they r really interested or like what they r doing.
Money is very important, no doubt, but in no way the first or even the second goals.

 

[dawg44]

At last someone who is in ortho (if I m not wrong) for the correct reasons and not because of the money.
As an IMG I must say that although I admire the american medicine, huge part of medical students and physicians do medicine (and ortho) because of the money and not because they r really interested or like what they r doing.
Money is very important, no doubt, but in no way the first or even the second goals.

A few reasons most orthopods dont go into spine
The cases can be incredibly long.
One false move and you can make someone a paraplegic.
You have to deal with back patients which can be absolutely mind numbing.
Its a field that for the most part has little in common with the rest of the fields in orthopedics which is what you train in during your entire residency.

 

[mysophobe]

And if they have a tumor, do you really want to dig around in that? From my experience, most ortho guys send most of the complex spine and the tumor stuff to neuro anyway, so that leaves a little slice of the pie.

 

[maybeortho]

Thanks for the responses guys, any information helps me a lot. Dre, I totally understand what you mean about actually enjoying the work. That's certainly true, and I don't want to spend the majority of my waking hours doing something that doesn't enthrall me. However, I don't think anyone should feel badly inquiring about the finances and especially lifestyle of different types of physicians. The bottom line is that I don't want my profession to entirely trump my family life. And I think that any responsible parent should feel the same way. Obviously, an orthopedist will miss some birthdays and anniversaries. But should a husband miss all of his children's first steps or the majority of Christmas Eves? I think that most people agree it would be irresponsible and unethical. It's all about towing the fine line between one's professional and personal lives. Too many doctors never leave the hospital, and one day wake up divorced and alone. I've seen it first hand with some of my friends, and no profession is worth being hated by supposed loved ones. So all I was doing was asking for more information about a field whose science has gripped me. Regardless, I understand where you were coming from (too many "how can i get richest" forums), and thanks for the information.

 

[traxtar511]

I have a question that is somewhat related to this topic. I have noticed that interventional spine procedures are becoming a popular topic amongst pain specialists. How will this affect spine surgeons?

 

[asdf123]

Spine surgeons in general are busier than other subspecialists in ortho...but how busy you are depends on where you practice, whether you cover a level 1 trauma center, and most importantly how busy you WANT to be. The more cases you do the more money you make...so you can see there is an obvious financial incentive to be busy. Spine pays well and it's hard to turn cases.

But you determine your own schedule in large part. Now if you're the only spine surgeon in the middle of nowhere, you don't have much choice but to see patients who need your services.

 

[dry dre]

Too many doctors never leave the hospital, and one day wake up divorced and alone. I've seen it first hand with some of my friends, and no profession is worth being hated by supposed loved ones.

I think that I understant your sentiment. At the same time, generally speaking, when a doc isn't leaving the hospital (average doc), it is because of patient care issues (if not you, who?). Surgeons in general tend to take pride in their willingness to deliver care as needed, not 9-5. I'm not saying that you're looking for 9-5. At the same time, you can't go into medicine in most fields expecting to have any specific expectations on lifestyle, unless you choose a shiftwork specialty (EM, hospitalist, etc). Frankly, the ortho ~lifestyle is about as bad as it gets in medicine...if this factor is high on your criteria list of choosing a specialty, I'd strongly suggest against ortho. Moreover, to get into ortho, you generally have to be a hard worker in med school, spending above-average hours even before you enter the specialty.

Note that in the average locale there is a good wait to be seen by an orthopaedist, i.e. the demand is there, it will likely only increase relative to number of physicians. All physicians are having to work harder and pods are no exception. Again, all of this points away from ortho as having a predictable lifestyle.

As a final note, you can go into the field and work limited hours, if you choose. You'll work your butt of in med school and residency/fellowship to get there though.

 

[M3goingon4]

im not sure if i agree with everything said here...

ive looked up a lot of statistics, and overall pay seems like it's still increasing. however the rate of pay increase has been decreasing severely almost all across the board (CT surgeons seeing the worst of it)

as an orthopod in private practice, it seems you can more or less dictate iwth time how much you want to work. in academic orthopedics though, i'm not sure how true that is.

as an example, there's one spine surgeon here at jeff who seems to be in the OR at all hours; ive never seen him actually leave the university hospital. however, many friends' fathers who are orthopods live relatively-relaxing lifestyles

dre does make a good point, to get ortho, you are probably working a lot as it is, will continue to work more in residency, and once u come out, you'll keep working hard, but orthopedics is, IMO, a field where you can dictate your own hours with time

maybe not as nice as derm or ophtho, but hey, i'd rather fix bones than work with disgusting weird smelly skin or operate within millimeters of the eye.

neurosurgery however, im not really sure how much u get to choose what u work, hence why im on this forum trying to figure out which is better long term for a semblance of a personal life

and it seems ortho