Sports Medicine

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Some generic responses:

1) If you really want to be in Sports Medicine, I would recommend the ortho route. A sports medicine guy (ortho, of course) put it to me this way - if you are a peds/FM/IM sports medicine doc, you are still in a lot of ways the low man on the totem pole, because you need to work with the surgeons, and for a lot of cases they will be the ones making the final treatment plans (i.e. when it's time to cut)

2) This may sound brutal, but basically NOTHING you do right now as a high-schooler or college freshman/soph will help you land a sports medicine fellowship. As was pointed out above, it will be ~13 years before you apply for a fellowship at the soonest. Do things now to try and find your interests and passions, not to try and pad your resume, because it won't work. Med schools pretty much won't want to hear about your high school experiences on their applications; residencies will care even less; fellowships even less.

3) This is just my opinion, but I think the guaranteed MD admission programs are a bad idea. I have interviewed applicants for these programs at my school, and frankly they just have no clue what they are getting into - and how could they be expected to? My dean was even harsher - they said if it was up to the med school the program wouldn't exist, but the undergrad really wants it as a recruitment tool. If you are a strong enough high school student to get into one of these programs, chances are you will be a strong applicant for med school in another four years - there is no reason to tie yourself into one of these programs.

4) Back to sports medicine - it may be a common dream to be a professional team doctor, but there are a very limited number of jobs in that field. The majority of sports med people don't work in that environment - if you continue interning/shadowing in sports med, try to see what a "regular" sports med practice is like, and see if you would enjoy doing that for a living.
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Law2Doc said:
Bear in mind that most residencies consider recent research to be of more value anyway, so if you are doing research in hopes of getting ortho, you are going to want to rack up your publications during med school anyhow.

But having done research in college makes getting up to speed researching in med school much easier.


I wouldn't get too sold on a particular specialty before you go to med school. It's nice to have "leanings" but you have to keep an open mind. A ton of people decide they don't like the surgical field lifestyle and long residencies once they see it first hand during rotations. And not everyone gets matched into ortho (very competitive field). And of those who get it, not that many actually end up working at the sideline of a professional or college team. A lot of these jobs are contracted to specific hospitals, which may or may not even be good places to work or do your training. So best to keep an open mind.

As you mentioned above, FP and PM&R also would allow you to work with injured athletes, and these paths tend to be shorter and less competitive.
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oh yea, definitely! I'm not expecting to coast into an ortho residency with work I have done in college. If I'm going in to ortho......my work has just begun! And i defiintely have an open mind and am not set on ortho in any way. There are many fields I am intereested in, and others that I know nothing about and may fall in love with later when i rotate through them 3/4 year. Thanks for the advice tho, good lookin out! :thumbup:
 
southernIM said:
2) This may sound brutal, but basically NOTHING you do right now as a high-schooler or college freshman/soph will help you land a sports medicine fellowship. As was pointed out above, it will be ~13 years before you apply for a fellowship at the soonest. Do things now to try and find your interests and passions, not to try and pad your resume, because it won't work. Med schools pretty much won't want to hear about your high school experiences on their applications; residencies will care even less; fellowships even less.
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I see you way of thinking, but I approach it differently. I understand the Residencies and Fellowships won't care at all about what I did as a senior in high school, but it does help to build up a resume. For example, if I feel like I want to be a sports medicine doctor, it would be better to get started now. Everyone on this thread has been saying stuff like wait until med school to decide and all, but honestly, will there be enough time to build up my resume then? If I start at the bottom of the ladder now, by the time I am a senior in college or between M1 and M2, I could land an internship that would actually matter for later on. If I was to start in med school, it would be really hard for me to get that same internship w/o any experience.

I don't know if I am correct in thinking this way, please input your comments and let me know.:oops:
 
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Az1698 said:
I see you way of thinking, but I approach it differently. I understand the Residencies and Fellowships won't care at all about what I did as a senior in high school, but it does help to build up a resume. For example, if I feel like I want to be a sports medicine doctor, it would be better to get started now. Everyone on this thread has been saying stuff like wait until med school to decide and all, but honestly, will there be enough time to build up my resume then? If I start at the bottom of the ladder now, by the time I am a senior in college or between M1 and M2, I could land an internship that would actually matter for later on. If I was to start in med school, it would be really hard for me to get that same internship w/o any experience.

I don't know if I am correct in thinking this way, please input your comments and let me know.:oops:
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it is too early to literally "build a resume" because I wouldn't even put any high school activities on my resume. My CV does not have a single word about high school on it.

In the sense of resume building you are talking about, plenty of college students manage to get good internships without any prior experience - when someone hires a college intern they know that by definition they are getting someone who is inexperienced. Unless you continue to work with the same doctor or same group, your high school experiences aren't going to give you much of a leg up on anyone else applying for positions.

There will be plenty of time to build a resume in college and/or med school.

You should follow your interests - if you are interested in sports med, then by all means pursue working in the field to learn more. But don't expect that it will give you a leg up at any future stage in the game; do it because you like it.
 
You should follow your interests - if you are interested in sports med, then by all means pursue working in the field to learn more. But don't expect that it will give you a leg up at any future stage in the game; do it because you like it.
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Agreed. High school vanishes once you get into college other than a possible "oh, that's nice" from a med school adcom in regards to an activity you began in high school and continued into college. Outside of that fairly minor benefit, anything you do in high school is going to be completely irrelevant once college starts.
 
southernIM said:
In the sense of resume building you are talking about, plenty of college students manage to get good internships without any prior experience - when someone hires a college intern they know that by definition they are getting someone who is inexperienced. Unless you continue to work with the same doctor or same group, your high school experiences aren't going to give you much of a leg up on anyone else applying for positions.
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So compared to someone with no experience at all, a person who already knows some of the procedures and has working experience will be at the same level as someone with no experience at all? This is not for Med school, or for residency, or for fellowship, this is for internships in college. I find that really hard to believe that experience serves no benefits.
 
Az1698 said:
So compared to someone with no experience at all, a person who already knows some of the procedures and has working experience will be at the same level as someone with no experience at all? This is not for Med school, or for residency, or for fellowship, this is for internships in college. I find that really hard to believe that experience serves no benefits.
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Sure it might help a little bit - but all I was trying to say is it is not at all needed (i.e. you won't be "behind" if you don't have any experience).

A college student with good aptitude (as demonstrated by college grades) and good attitude (i.e. interested/enthusiastic) won't have much trouble finding good summer internship opportunities.
 
ok! So I got a shadowing opportunity with the #5 ortho surgeon on the east coast. I get to watch him perform surgeries while learning little tips and tricks from him at the same time. Another step in the right direction?
 
Az1698 said:
ok! So I got a shadowing opportunity with the #5 ortho surgeon on the east coast. I get to watch him perform surgeries while learning little tips and tricks from him at the same time. Another step in the right direction?
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Just out of curiosity how do you figure he's the #5 ortho?
 
southernIM said:
are you just jealous you didn't make the top 10 list? ;)
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No. I'm not an ortho and they don't rank EPs because people don't really choose their EP. I was going to point out that pretty much any lists that are out there about docs or hospitals (eg. US News) are bogus and don't hold much sway within medicine. Only those outside medicine give them any creedence.
 
docB said:
No. I'm not an ortho and they don't rank EPs because people don't really choose their EP. I was going to point out that pretty much any lists that are out there about docs or hospitals (eg. US News) are bogus and don't hold much sway within medicine. Only those outside medicine give them any creedence.
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I know...thus the winking emoticon
 
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docB said:
Just out of curiosity how do you figure he's the #5 ortho?
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That's what it said under the hospital description. This guy has done many big name surgeries, so I completely believe it.
 
southernIM said:
Some generic responses:

1) If you really want to be in Sports Medicine, I would recommend the ortho route. A sports medicine guy (ortho, of course) put it to me this way - if you are a peds/FM/IM sports medicine doc, you are still in a lot of ways the low man on the totem pole, because you need to work with the surgeons, and for a lot of cases they will be the ones making the final treatment plans (i.e. when it's time to cut)


I would disagree completely. Sports Medicine is more than just ortho. There are medical and psychological issues, as well as preventive medicine issues to consider when it comes to the athlete. What will an orthopedist say to a pregnant athlete? Or a diabetic athlete? What about a disabled athlete? What about return to play for certain skin infections?

If you really want to do Sports Medicine, you should first work with multiple sports medicine physicians in both primary care and non-primary care specialities. Work with athletic trainers, coaches, and physical therapists. Go out and participate in mass participation events or sideline events. If you feel that you have this burning desire to participate in the care of the athlete, then select the medical specialty that makes you happy and leads to a Sports Medicine Fellowship.

People have this notion that "Sports Medicine" is something that we physicians practice solely....Sports Medicine is a sub-specialty that augments our primary specialty training and gives us an additional skill set for a specific type of patient. To call Primary Care Sports Medicine Physicians as "low man on the totem pole" is somewhat egotistical; remember that us "low men or women" provide the consultations/referrals to the orthopedists to take care of our patients when we feel they are a surgical candidate.
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This thread has good information - does anyone have any other advice?
 
I was also looking at Sports Medicine a little bit also, it seems like it'd be pretty cool. However, what exactly does ORS mean? I'm guessing you'd NEED to go private practice if you became a Sports Med doctor?
 
ORS = orthopedic surgery
 
how important is research in this field
 
RySerr21 said:
sports medicine? orthopedic surgery? do you mean in terms of getting accepted into residency? fellowship? Clarify.
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Either sports medicine or orthopedic surgery, in terms of getting both a good residency and a great fellowship.


How can these research oppertunities be had?
 
Do hospitals hire sports medicine doctors? Or are you forced to do private practice if you become one?

Whats the difference between being just plain sports medicine and being ORS sports medicine? Is that sort of like being a Diagnostic Radiologist instead of an Interventional one?
 
Dreaming big said:
Either sports medicine or orthopedic surgery, in terms of getting both a good residency and a great fellowship.


How can these research oppertunities be had?
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orthopedic surgery is one of the most competitive specialties to enter. I dunno about the competitiveness of sports medicine fellowships. Ive heard that research is pretty much necessary to be competive for ortho, but someone else can speak on this. In undergrad, you make your own opportunities in the sense that if you find an ortho surgeon affiliated with a med school you can email and ask him/her if you can volunteer and/or help out with research. Thats what I did and it worked out well. In med school, ive heard that opportuniteies for all kinds of research are abundant so i dont imagine it will be a problem.

Gallix23 said:
Do hospitals hire sports medicine doctors? Or are you forced to do private practice if you become one?

Whats the difference between being just plain sports medicine and being ORS sports medicine? Is that sort of like being a Diagnostic Radiologist instead of an Interventional one?
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if you are ORS sports medicine you are performing orthopedic surgery on the athletes tha tyou take care of (if surgery is necessary). You can enter sports medicine via other fields such as family medicine/peds/ER and w/ that type of residency background you obviusly wont be performing surgery. If you have a patient who needs surgery, you will refer him/her to a surgeon. I imagine the other elements of the job for sports medicine are the same for ORS and general physicians...
 
RySerr21 said:
orthopedic surgery is one of the most competitive specialties to enter. I dunno about the competitiveness of sports medicine fellowships. Ive heard that research is pretty much necessary to be competive for ortho, but someone else can speak on this. In undergrad, you make your own opportunities in the sense that if you find an ortho surgeon affiliated with a med school you can email and ask him/her if you can volunteer and/or help out with research. Thats what I did and it worked out well. In med school, ive heard that opportuniteies for all kinds of research are abundant so i dont imagine it will be a problem.
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As a general rule of thumb, the more competitive the residency, the easier the fellowships are to obtain. If you completed an orthopedic surgery residency, I doubt you would have any problem obtaining a sports medicine fellowship. By far, the hardest leap to take is just getting into the ortho residency.

The most important criteria to make yourself competitive for an orthopedic surgery residency is your performance during a rotation in that specialty at the specific hospital site you plan to match at. After that is your board scores and your class rank. Then clerkship grades, your dean letter and at some point research (though the quality of the research will obviously make a difference). Frankly, this applies to pretty much every residency in medicine. Research is more helpful (in my opinion) to obtain entry into less clinical/"hands-on" fields such as path/rads/radiation oncology.
 
Terpskins99 said:
As a general rule of thumb, the more competitive the residency, the easier the fellowships are to obtain. If you completed an orthopedic surgery residency, I doubt you would have any problem obtaining a sports medicine fellowship. By far, the hardest leap to take is just getting into the ortho residency.

The most important criteria to make yourself competitive for an orthopedic surgery residency is your performance during a rotation in that specialty at the specific hospital site you plan to match at. After that is your board scores and your class rank. Then clerkship grades, your dean letter and at some point research (though the quality of the research will obviously make a difference). Frankly, this applies to pretty much every residency in medicine. Research is more helpful (in my opinion) to obtain entry into less clinical/"hands-on" fields such as path/rads/radiation oncology.
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hmmm, question: Do residency programs look at ec's as well? if so, what ec's are good to have? any jobs in particular?
 
they arent going to look at ECs in the sense that med schools look at ECs. They arent going to care that you volunteered 200 hours at your local hopsital, you konw? I think terp laid it out pretty well in terms of what residencies look for. Thanks terp, by the way.
 
Gallix23 said:
Do hospitals hire sports medicine doctors? Or are you forced to do private practice if you become one?

Whats the difference between being just plain sports medicine and being ORS sports medicine? Is that sort of like being a Diagnostic Radiologist instead of an Interventional one?
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Hospitals don't usually hire doctors period. The vast majority of doctors work for themselves and are privileged and sometimes contracted by hospitals.

I think it was mentioned in this thread before but bears repeating that very few sports medicine docs make their living doing sports medicine. If you're an ortho surgeon, even one who does a lot of sports med, you make your money by doing surgeries. Even if you are the man for a pro team you can't fill your OR schedule with athletes. The vast majority still have a practice that treats regular people.
 
Terpskins99 said:
The most important criteria to make yourself competitive for an orthopedic surgery residency is your performance during a rotation in that specialty at the specific hospital site you plan to match at. After that is your board scores and your class rank. Then clerkship grades, your dean letter and at some point research (though the quality of the research will obviously make a difference). Frankly, this applies to pretty much every residency in medicine. Research is more helpful (in my opinion) to obtain entry into less clinical/"hands-on" fields such as path/rads/radiation oncology.
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Are there any wildcards? such as anything that COULD have an impact, when comparing two similar applicants? anything on your resume that could technically help?
 
Sorry for taking so long to get back. No internet access.

Dreaming big said:
hmmm, question: Do residency programs look at ec's as well? if so, what ec's are good to have? any jobs in particular?
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Dreaming big said:
Are there any wildcards? such as anything that COULD have an impact, when comparing two similar applicants? anything on your resume that could technically help?
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Usually the strongest extracurricular is research (especially if you have publications they can look up). Participating in various clubs/interest groups would be fine too. One of my friends (MS3) started a fund raiser for mitochondrial muscle disease research and she is planning to go into neurology. She is a concert pianist, and donates all profits from a CD she makes to the fund. Another guy I know (MS2) is working to get an outreach homeless program started in his city as an AMSA-officer. He is planning to go into either med-peds or family medicine and provide street medicine for the homeless.

Anything can help. Be creative. Just keep in mind that nothing trumps elective rotation performance, board scores and class rank (at least in order to secure that interview offer). I think the time where related-extracurricular activities really help you shine is when you're actually interviewing and you have an opportunity to discuss your interest in the field with the residency program director.
 
Hey, would being a team manager on a d1 college team help get a foot into the door? it has nothing to do with medicine, but...
 
MilkmanAl said:
Probably not, no. No colleges that I'm aware of employ physicians for their sports teams. They all contract out.
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Generally the team docs I've known have a practice associated with a major university med school in that town.

I worked with the team doc for the St. Louis Rams and he had a practice with Washington University in St. Louis. I get the feeling that name affiliations tend to go a long way. Many of the other docs in his practice were affiliated with other major sports teams in the area. I get the feeling that you need to know the right people at the higher levels... you can meet these people during your training. If you express your interest, you can try to pursue a professional relationship and break into the field, but I would imagine that these spots are highly coveted and very competitive.
 
Hm, I guess that's a good point. In any case, making more connections will never hurt, but know, Az, that being a D1 sports manager is an absurdly time-consuming job. You will live and breathe whatever sport you're involved in. If you can swing that, go for it, but there are less taxing ways to meet people who might help you out down the line.
 
Oh, my post was not meant to imply you should manage a D1 sports team to make connections... I was stating that when you're doing an otho residency and sports medicine fellowship you'll meet the people you want to get to know and you should endear yourself to them.
 
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