Everyone has told me for awhile that I would be embarrassed of my fiancés job. He is still trying to figure out what he wants to do. But I was just wondering if anyone is embarrassed of what their spouses do? I personally don't care what he does but when my stepmom got her new job she changed a lot and was embarrassed of my fathers job resulting in a divorce. If anyone has an opinion on this please let me know.
Spouses Job
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Your stepmom is shallow. Your life is different. You decide how much support you need at home with running a household. If your partner is willing to help with everything at home, why be ashamed of what he does for a living? Physicians are a different breed, we expect a lot from our partners without necessarily offering the financial rewards.
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Your stepmom is ignorant. Be proud you have someone willing to work a job like that to support you. Many many deadbeats in this country won't work.
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If someone is ashamed of a spouse, they shouldn't be married to them.
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Unlike what others are saying, I think it's valid. Yes, theoretically, nobody should care what anyone else thinks. And yet we do. That's just the facts. It's like saying you wouldn't be embarrassed if your spouse was the bagger at the local supermarket. I'm not saying you'd divorce him/her, but I don't think anyone here would be all thrilled and bragging about it proudly. Something similar to this happened to a physician I know, where her husband quit his job and is sort of "finding himself" (which means he's not doing anything, really) and she's embarrassed about it.
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In the real world, if you're a woman and it's your husband who's not doing much or working a min. wage job.. then you'll probably care.
If you're a man and it's your wife.. here it gets tricky. If you have a hot wife, it WON'T matter much (seriously, like are you really going to feel "ashamed" in showing your 9/10 wife to others and saying she does nothing while everyone else shows you their 6/10 wife who's a lawyer/doctor as well?) If you have an average looking wife, it may or may not be an issue but again it depends..
If you're a man and it's your wife.. here it gets tricky. If you have a hot wife, it WON'T matter much (seriously, like are you really going to feel "ashamed" in showing your 9/10 wife to others and saying she does nothing while everyone else shows you their 6/10 wife who's a lawyer/doctor as well?) If you have an average looking wife, it may or may not be an issue but again it depends..
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P
People will always find any reason to trash talk you behind your back (or in your case: right to your face) if they really wanted to. Live life in a way you feel happy at the end of the day and screw all the haters.
People will always find any reason to trash talk you behind your back (or in your case: right to your face) if they really wanted to. Live life in a way you feel happy at the end of the day and screw all the haters.
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Depends on the person. If you have the desire to "better yourself" and have ambition for your life, I don't care what you do.
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Oh, I TOTALLY know what you mean! I get so EMBARRASSED when I bring my average-looking prosecutor partner to parties. He's standing there talking about putting away child rapists, and of course I'm just thinking, "Why don't you just shave and go to the gym, you douchenozzle?" After all, his intrinsic worth relies on him being a pretty trophy for me to show off to others, and all of his other wonderful qualities are totally irrelevant!
OP: You should be ashamed of your partner if they're a lousy, irresponsible person who never contributes to your life or anyone else's - and then you should leave them, because nobody should be with a lousy, irresponsible person. Otherwise, kudos for not caring what other people think.
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If you're going by standards in society (which this entire thread is basically about), this doesn't apply to males.Oh, I TOTALLY know what you mean! I get so EMBARRASSED when I bring my average-looking prosecutor partner to parties. He's standing there talking about putting away child rapists, and of course I'm just thinking, "Why don't you just shave and go to the gym, you douchenozzle?" After all, his intrinsic worth relies on him being a pretty trophy for me to show off to others, and all of his other wonderful qualities are totally irrelevant!
OP: You should be ashamed of your partner if they're a lousy, irresponsible person who never contributes to your life or anyone else's - and then you should leave them, because nobody should be with a lousy, irresponsible person. Otherwise, kudos for not caring what other people think.
For females it certainly does, if you make it black and white. Hot lazy wife vs. fat-ugly successful wife, the former will always win in terms of who a man would rather have as his wife. Even if you change the latter to an average looking successful wife, the former will always win if all else is equal.
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Oh, I TOTALLY know what you mean! I get so EMBARRASSED when I bring my average-looking prosecutor partner to parties. He's standing there talking about putting away child rapists, and of course I'm just thinking, "Why don't you just shave and go to the gym, you douchenozzle?" After all, his intrinsic worth relies on him being a pretty trophy for me to show off to others, and all of his other wonderful qualities are totally irrelevant!
OP: You should be ashamed of your partner if they're a lousy, irresponsible person who never contributes to your life or anyone else's - and then you should leave them, because nobody should be with a lousy, irresponsible person. Otherwise, kudos for not caring what other people think.
I think you're missing his point. First of all, if he's a prosecutor, then he's a lawyer. Nobody is going to be embarrassed to say "yeah, I'm dating a lawyer," are they? Even if he's the most junior public defender, nobody will point and go "ahahahaha, what a loser!!"
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Actually, what you just said - that my high-achieving male partner would be considered a source of pride solely because of his career accomplishments - was precisely my point. To be more explicit: I was trying to illustrate that it sounds ridiculous to talk about him as a source of shame because of his looks, when he's clearly achieved so much. But say you're talking about a female attorney - the above poster's opinion drastically changes (as he explicitly says). If she's not conventionally attractive, her personality, intelligence, and accomplishments don't mean anything. She's an embarrassment.
(Also, I haven't said anything about my partner other than that he's got a great job. He could be an alcoholic, a domestic abuser, or just a garden variety jerk. He's not! He's awesome. But why does being a lawyer automatically make him as a winner?)
It's a terrible double standard - that a woman's only value lies in her ability to be attractive, and that a man's value lies in his ability to achieve (by obtaining status, power, or money). That other amazing qualities - compassion, integrity, honesty, humor - aren't considered good enough reasons to be proud of your partner. It sucks for both men and women, and it frankly pisses me off. I'm very happy with my appearance, but I want to be valued for all I have to contribute - and while my partner is proud of his accomplishments, he wants to be able to leave his job and be a stay at home dad without being shamed for it.
[/rant] Poor OP - sorry this is so off topic. But I think you get my point, which is that who the eff cares what your partner does?
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I rechecked what he says and I don't think it's what you think he said. He's saying that a "hot" wife who does nothing will trump an average-looking wife who is a doctor or lawyer, as far as men go. Meaning, if everyone is introducing their wives and they're all average-looking women who are attorneys and doctors, there is no shame in saying "here's my wife, she stays at home" if she looks like a supermodel. That's all he said that I saw. You may dislike it, but it's still true. In fact, good or bad, men would probably rather have the hot wife than the productive one, which is why you see trophy wives, right? I'm not saying that to put down women, but what's the point of pretending that's not the case?
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That's just reality, though, isn't it? If you tell women that someone is a doctor, he immediately is thought of better than if you say he's a construction worker, regardless of if they know nothing else about him.
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this x10
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We're talking about how PEOPLE look at your partner. Not how you look at them. I'm not saying go be shallow, I'm just talking about the REALITY of things.
For the same standard to apply, you'd have to be a 4/10 wife with a 9/10 husband, in order for the husband's looks to matter. Assuming you're the successful woman and he's the lazy guy.
Women will always be judged FIRST by their appearance and second by everything else. It's how it is, and it will never change.
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You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree. Attitudes have changed drastically about certain racial and ethnic groups (including my own), ideas have changed drastically about women's capabilities and intelligence in the past hundred years, and I sincerely believe and hope that attitudes continue to evolve.
I acknowledge that many people may think this way in our society - currently. But acknowledging isn't the same thing as accepting, and I don't think promoting the idea as inevitably and invariably true does anything to change social norms.
I'm not sure this thread is an appropriate place to have this discussion, as we're not really addressing the poster's question anymore. If you want to continue (respectfully), it's probably better to PM me.
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I don't think you quite understand what I'm saying. No one takes away from any woman's accomplishments and it still holds a big "wow" factor, as much as it does for a man. Different issue altogether.
I said that when a man introduces his wife to a bunch of people. The wife will always be judged by how attractiveness she is FIRST. Everything else comes second barring extreme exceptions. To think otherwise is very naive and foolish.
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I think it has everything to do with the OP. The OP is asking if anyone is embarrassed with what their spouse does for work, right? By definition, the only reason you'd be embarrassed of what your spouse does for work is based on the opinions of other people or "society." In my thread, not to self-promote, but I talked about just that thing. I could never see myself asking out someone who was a blue-collar worker, such as a secretary or a waitress or a cleaning lady. She may be the nicest person in the world and she may be perfect for me and you'd be right in saying "well, guess you'll never know." But that's life. You wouldn't ask out a garbage man and please don't pretend you would like "I might, I just haven't yet." No, the fact is that you wouldn't. We all sort of self-segregate and date and marry within our socioeconomic circles, in most cases. It's just a fact of life, not that we're all "bad" people. I met a girl the other night who was OK looking, but she works as some sort of a controller at a rail yard. All she talked about were trains and how much they could push. She was a very nice person, but I can't imagine having to sit and listen to her stories about train engines for the rest of my life. Nor could I imagine introducing her as my wife, the woman who works at the rail yard, unless she was totally hot.
Put it this way: what if your husband was an idiot? What if your husband was a construction worker and he had average or slightly-below average intelligence, but was a really nice guy who just happened to hit it off with you and you met when you were in college? I'm sure you'll say you wouldn't care, but lots of women would, in terms of introducing them as their husband. Like, "hi, I'm a medical oncologist and this is my husband, Bill." And then Bill says something like "yo, guys, who wants a brewski?" That's fine for when you're in medical school, maybe, but it would get uncomfortable when you're age 50 and he's still going "yo, Adriaaaaaaaan!!" It's no different.
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I don't think we're really disagreeing on any of these issues. People are absolutely entitled to have arbitrary dating preferences, and to date whomever they want. You can choose not to date someone because they have a job you don't like, or because they aren't as intelligent as you are, or because their facial hair grows in weird, and that's totally your choice and not something you need to defend.
Of course, this goes both ways. If a woman chooses to date someone that's not in her social circle, that's ALSO totally her choice and she has nothing to apologize for. In this case, the OP explicitly said she doesn't care about her fiancé's job, but other people are making her feel bad about it. That's a really awful, judgmental thing for other people to do, unless there's some critical piece of information about her SO that we're missing (he's a hit man for the mob, he defrauds the elderly for a living, etc.). In addition to her right to date or not date whomever she likes, she ALSO has every right to tell other people to shove it when they start talking about her personal life like it's their business. Might their opinions of her change? Sure. Should she let that affect her deeply personal life choices? I wouldn't. But that's my opinion, and you might disagree.
When I was talking about a discussion that's not appropriate for this thread, I was referring to a conversation about what is valued in each gender and how that may or may not be changing in society. I think that qualifies as off topic
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Right, it may be awful, but it's reality. If you went to your medical school reunion and your husband was a janitor (which he wouldn't be because, no offense, nobody who went to college is dating a janitor, but let's just say he was), most people would be embarrassed. And you may say "but that doesn't mean I love him less." True. But the fact that you love him does not necessarily make you immune to the opinions of others. There was an "Everybody Loves Raymond" episode that dealt with that, where the wife (Deborah) was telling her husband "I can't believe you wore that!" and "stand up straight!" and "tuck in your shirt!" Women do that all the time. Doesn't that reflect that you want "people" to look at your SO or spouse and see someone he's not and that you're embarrassed that he'd otherwise look like a slob?
Now, if your point is "true, but that shouldn't happen," I don't know what to say. You're right, it shouldn't. But it does.
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Interesting points.
Now hypothetically, lets say you're a 6/10 surgeon guy and a 8-9/10 girl is genuinely into you and has fallen for you, but she's a blue collar worker. Do you pursue her further, or go for a 6/10 physician female?
What about a 6/10 physician/lawyer female and a 9/10 mechanic guy vs. 6/10 doctor-lawyer guy?
It seems that the former, public opinion would favour the more attractive girl while the latter is debatable and would vary.
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I'd have to meet both women, of course, but just speaking hypothetically with only the information you've given, I'd go for the 6/10 physician, if she wasn't a total b*tch. The thing with the hot blue collar worker is that you can find those. I mean, as I said, here in this rural area, there are a lot of "Appalachian" women (if you don't know what that means, think the woman on "Honey Boo Boo" -- she just has that "look"), but there are also some girls who are attractive. But you can tell they're not going to be attractive for too long. At 18, they're "voluptuous" or "curvy," but at 22 you can see they're just going to be obese, if you know what I mean. So if I was interested in her solely for her looks, then I'd be SOL in a few years because, unfortunately, most of those girls aren't really bright for various reasons. Plus, my views on attractiveness are quite at variance with most people's, as I said. As an example, take a look at that woman who is the current "featured article" on SDN's home page, Erica Mayer. She looks cute to me and I'm definitely also turned on by her intelligence (although her CV is about ten times better than mine, lol), if that gives you an indication. I'm almost 100% certain you'd peg her at a 6/10 at best, if not lower.
Oh, by the way, that's a horrible picture of her. Here's a better one:
To me, that's totally hot.
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While I somewhat agree with the first part, the second isn't true. I know plenty of men who would much rather have an intelligent, hard-working wife who is maybe a 6/10 than a vapid, lazy 9/10.
Yes, women are judged more harshly on their looks than men, and physical attractiveness is ALWAYS the first thing you are rated on, male OR female. But when it comes to picking a life partner, there are so many more factors involved than looks - intellectual curiosity being one of them. The lazy hot wife is only hot for so long, and it's only so long before she starts to bore you silly.
Yep, it's the same thing for the dumb, hot wife. If an accomplished, smart dude has a dumb, hot wife, and runs in accomplished, smart circles, I think people here are vastly overestimating that amount of approval said circle (even the male members of it) would have for said dumb, hot wife. It's painfully obviously that you only married her for her looks, she'll be the one giggling and blathering and making inane comments, etc. In real life, it isn't as admired as people think it is.
Hey, some Appalachian women are pretty ballin'
I have all my teeth and everything! 
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Are those the same married men who hire 9/10 escorts every other week or so? lol. (hopefully you're aware of how common it is for married men to hire escorts)
Maybe it's just me, but I tend to think that if you're banging a 9/10 at home, you're less likely to go pay to bang another 9.
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It's true that the hot wife would make for very awkward moments, a la Penny in "The Big Bang Theory." But to be honest, just like in that show, if she's hot enough, the guys will not mind. (The women will tear her to pieces and talk about "the trophy wife.") I mean, just this week when I went out to the meetup thing, one of the most popular girls there was an attractive girl who was a ditz and talked about getting drunk. Guys just smiled broadly and excused anything silly she said or laughed at it and she laughed, too, any time she made a faux pas. It's true that this occurred in a more blue-collar crowd (as I say, there was the rail way girl, one guy was an IT specialist, there was a photographer, that sort of thing) and they were young, but I've seen old guys do that, too, at hospital meetings. (If the guys are all in their 60s, you'd be amazed at how they treat 45-year-old female attendings who the residents don't look twice at.)
I think women actually ARE less focused on physicality than men (but I don't buy the "I don't pay attention to looks at all" B.S. that many try to pass off). If you came to a reunion with a Chippendale dancer, I'm sure that most of the other women would be like "ooo, he's hot!" and make some jokes about "how is he in the sack?" but probably after a while if he was a lunk they'd be like "ok, well, he's hot, but he's pretty stupid." Whereas guys would just be like "man, she's hot!! Wooooooo!!!"
Hey, some Appalachian women are pretty ballin'
What?? That's no good!!!
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It's not, dude. The thing is I think you're just around guys who do that. Like, be honest, did your dad go out with hired escorts? Probably not, right? I doubt most guys do that. Now, if you want to say "most married guys watch a lot of Internet porn," then I'm right there with you. They probably watch way more than their wives even would guess. But let's not get silly to make a point here.
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Married men who hire escorts are pretty discrete about it. I doubt many married guys would share that even with their close buddy. You have to realize, when A LOT of married men do it, and there's a big cost to it (over time), then chances are that it's the same well educated high earning men who do it.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedshift/wall-street-escort-wishes-she-could-tell-clients
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2013/02/rebecca-dakin-prostitute-secrets-why-men-cheat/
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I'll read those articles, but I'm not sure what they mean. I never said men don't cheat or that successful, professional men don't use escorts. I only said it's not common. Look at it like this. I once read that 10% of men in America are raising kids who are not their own. Meaning, the woman slept around, got pregnant, and then just told the guy that it was his and he believed her. 10% is a lot, right? But even though it's a lot, it doesn't mean "everyone" is raising bastard kids. And, in fact, most of those guys are probably in the lower class and are the guys you see on Jerry Springer or Maury Povich. I'd buy it if you said that 10%, 15% ...20%? of guys who are professionals have used escorts or cheated, but I don't see it as 50% or 75%.
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http://www.statisticbrain.com/infidelity-statistics/
close
Being a bit realistic anyway, if you got a 5/10 wife, and you're successful/fairly wealthy... are you really going to resist the temptation of a discrete hour with a 9/10 hottie?
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Not really. The first number is "emotional or physical infidelity." Then, for some reason, they talk about "committing infidelity IN ANY RELATIONSHIP EVER" and then later "straying." And all the numbers are wildly different. In other words, you could have cheated on a girlfriend in college, then never cheated on your wife. And how is that different from "straying"? If we're talking about emotional infidelity, then the girl I liked was cheating on her boyfriend for four years because she was flirting with me the whole time.
I probably would, but I'm not a normal guy, lol. I really don't pay that much attention to looks. Like, I'll definitely eyeball a hot woman, but I honestly don't feel like I gotta go bang her.
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You need to talk to some guys who are actually married on this forum.
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She was in a sense cheating on her bf. It's terrible that western society has come to a point where it's considered acceptable for a women to be committed to someone else and yet flirt with others.
Not to mention about 3/4 of people would have an affair if they wouldn't be caught .. lol.. wonder what the number is if you strictly look at a one night stand vs. an affair.
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Cause they'll definitely be honest? Not to mention it's a poor sample size.
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Poor sample size it may be, but it is a better representation of what educated, successful people in healthcare are actually like.
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I know that. But my point is that if you throw in "emotional cheating," then it's a wonder it's not 90%. But emotional cheating isn't what we were talking about.
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It's tough to say. I imagine nobody on this forum would admit to cheating on their spouse, to be honest. I'd be amazed if it was 1%, but not because I think it's that number, you know?
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I'm not talking specifically about cheating (although it's been shown many times that education level definitely affects divorce rate and all that good stuff; studies assessing infidelity as related to education consistently show conflicting results). I'm more talking about this attitude you have that educated men would cheat on their wives just because some hottie sashayed by.
The quality of the relationship (i.e. emotional satisfaction) is a much more deciding factor in whether infidelity occurs than simple "attractiveness" rating - there is a LOT more going on in a relationship than just that.
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That I have? What?
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No, studentp0x. Sorry, misquoted.
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That smiley is literally the best thing that SDN has.
By the way ,the problem is that we all know that some doctors -- men and women -- DO cheat. But I don't think any of us actually know of any or could picture any of our preceptors or colleagues cheating. Same with laypeople. I mean, SOMEONE'S mom or dad cheated, but I walk through a crowded street and I'm not thinking any of them did. It's tough to figure out what the number is.
By the way ,the problem is that we all know that some doctors -- men and women -- DO cheat. But I don't think any of us actually know of any or could picture any of our preceptors or colleagues cheating. Same with laypeople. I mean, SOMEONE'S mom or dad cheated, but I walk through a crowded street and I'm not thinking any of them did. It's tough to figure out what the number is.
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I absolutely agree that cheating is somewhat common when you look over the entire range of someone's romantic life. But I dare say it has a lot more to do with other factors than simply the attractiveness of one's spouse.
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The article he links to is a call girl who says that of the 900 (!) guys she's "dated," it's usually guys who aren't getting satisfied sexually at home. But the thing is, who knows what's going on with any one? Meaning, I can show you articles where people say that sexual activity drops markedly after marriage and probably nobody would dispute that, but to what extent is debatable. Are we talking once a week or once a month or once a year? Nobody will ever know because nobody is going to say "yeah, I'm NOT getting any sex!"
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Of course it has to do with many other things... you have to look at the types of cheating. If you do a one timer with an escort or someone else, it has to do more so with attractiveness and/or lust. An affair would be more likely to be for emotional reasons.
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Sex is absolutely a reason - but again, you can have amazing sex with someone who isn't a conventional 9/10.
Sexual fulfillment, emotional fulfillment, sure. Definitely reasons. My point is that simple looks/lust isn't the main impetus behind cheating. It helps, sure. But there has to be something fundamentally wrong with the relationship first (unless one person is just a jerk).
Sexual fulfillment, emotional fulfillment, sure. Definitely reasons. My point is that simple looks/lust isn't the main impetus behind cheating. It helps, sure. But there has to be something fundamentally wrong with the relationship first (unless one person is just a jerk).
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It certainly doesn't help if your wife gives up any intention on maintaining attractiveness and lets herself go.
