Spouses Job

[studentp0x]

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So then what do you do in light of this data? B/c as we all know and can attest, relationships are difficult (getting into one, keeping one, etc.). They take a ton of energy/work/effort/stress. If the data says that so many relationships fail, how should you as the individual act? Should you just renounce?

Well among the people I know, I have-had by far the best relationship (and everyone loves to share their problems with me) and I have a relationship where she's told me some lies etc. In all honesty, you're better off just approaching the relationship looking largely for sex with whatever other good things that may come with it.
I mean biologically, males and females are involved together for sexual reasons. And monogamous relationships are the best way (by far) to achieve sexual satisfaction so you can carry on with your everyday life.
For this reason, it's best to get into a relationship with someone who's less likely to cheat, for the reason(s) I just said.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

Well among the people I know, I have-had by far the best relationship (and everyone loves to share their problems with me) and I have a relationship where she's told me some lies etc. In all honesty, you're better off just approaching the relationship looking largely for sex with whatever other good things that may come with it.
I mean biologically, males and females are involved together for sexual reasons. And monogamous relationships are the best way (by far) to achieve sexual satisfaction so you can carry on with your everyday life.
For this reason, it's best to get into a relationship with someone who's less likely to cheat, for the reason(s) I just said.

Yea, but those who are less prone to cheat are also the ones that are less attractive.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

In all honesty, you're better off just approaching the relationship looking largely for sex

Uh, relationships based only on sex are the ones where people are most likely to cheat.

 

[studentp0x]

Yea, but those who are less prone to cheat are also the ones that are less attractive.

I don't think so lol. Any average looking girl posts a picture on facebook and gets like 25 likes or whatever. This person also gets lots of messages etc. on social networking sites and lots of attention in person. Average looking girl now thinks she's attractive. Therefore even by your definition, only 20% of girls are less likely to cheat (ones who are completely unattractive basically).

 

[studentp0x]

Uh, relationships based only on sex are the ones where people are most likely to cheat.

I never said you have a mutual agreement that the relationship is based on sex or that you show that's what you're looking for. 🙂
As long as you're not cheating, there isn't much of an issue of putting your priority on the sex.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

I don't think so lol. Any average looking girl posts a picture on facebook and gets like 25 likes or whatever. This person also gets lots of messages etc. on social networking sites and lots of attention in person. Average looking girl now thinks she's attractive. Therefore even by your definition, only 20% of girls are less likely to cheat (ones who are completely unattractive basically).

All that does is shift the bell curve. Now I REALLY don't want to get into a relationship w/ someone who "is less likely to cheat." Now I'm REALLY at a loss.

 

[studentp0x]

All that does is shift the bell curve. Now I REALLY don't want to get into a relationship w/ someone who "is less likely to cheat." Now I'm REALLY at a loss.

what do you mean?

 

[punkedoutriffs]

what do you mean?

Okay basically:

1. I want to be in a fulfilling relationship where there is mutual attraction and faithfulness.

2. Ppl are inherently unfaithful.

How to reconcile?

Your solution: find someone who won't be unfaithful.

My rebuttal: Yea, but I want someone who I'm attracted to, and if I'm attracted to them, chances are they are objectively attractive, hence more opportunity to be unfaithful. If I want someone who's going to be faithful, I'd have to go for unattractive women. But that's the thing, I'm not attracted to them!

Your reply: Actually even average/unattractive girls are made to feel attractive through positive feedback via social media. So now only the REALLY unattractive girls are the ones that'll probably stay faithful.

My conclusion: Just give me a bottle of scotch and a gun then.

 

[studentp0x]

Okay basically:

1. I want to be in a fulfilling relationship where there is mutual attraction and faithfulness.

2. Ppl are inherently unfaithful.

How to reconcile?

Your solution: find someone who won't be unfaithful.

My rebuttal: Yea, but I want someone who I'm attracted to, and if I'm attracted to them, chances are they are objectively attractive, hence more opportunity to be unfaithful. If I want someone who's going to be faithful, I'd have to go for unattractive women. But that's the thing, I'm not attracted to them!

Your reply: Actually even average/unattractive girls are made to feel attractive through positive feedback via social media. So now only the REALLY unattractive girls are the ones that'll probably stay faithful.

My conclusion: Just give me a bottle of scotch and a gun then.

I don't think attractiveness has anything to do with the odds of someone being unfaithful lol. Tons of average looking or less attractive people cheat etc. I don't believe there's any relation. The fact that there's 2/10 hookers who make tons of money, goes to show that ANY woman can get laid. Whether or not she decides to bang others while in a relationship, is based on her morals.

Interesting story, my old neighbours... husband was more of a 7-8 and the wife was more of a 4-5. She ended up having an affair with someone and they seperated/sold the house etc. Husband also earned a lot and was a really nice guy (they had 3 kids as well). As you can see, there isn't really any correlation between attractiveness and faithfulness.

I also doubt 9/10 girls get more attention in person than a 7/10 does or a 6 even. A lot of people are scared off by really attractive women anyways. Social networking is different.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

Okay basically:

1. I want to be in a fulfilling relationship where there is mutual attraction and faithfulness.

2. Ppl are inherently unfaithful.

How to reconcile?

Your solution: find someone who won't be unfaithful.

My rebuttal: Yea, but I want someone who I'm attracted to, and if I'm attracted to them, chances are they are objectively attractive, hence more opportunity to be unfaithful. If I want someone who's going to be faithful, I'd have to go for unattractive women. But that's the thing, I'm not attracted to them!

Your reply: Actually even average/unattractive girls are made to feel attractive through positive feedback via social media. So now only the REALLY unattractive girls are the ones that'll probably stay faithful.

My conclusion: Just give me a bottle of scotch and a gun then.

The point at which your argument breaks down is where you confuse the statement that "attractive people have more opportunity to be unfaithful" with "attractive people will be unfaithful." People aren't inherently unfaithful, or else nobody in society would care about cheating or marriage, because we'd all be cheating. Whether someone cheats has nothing to do with how they look and everything to do with their personal values and beliefs. If they have low morals AND are attractive, then, yes, they're going to cheat. But that's pretty much it.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

The point at which your argument breaks down is where you confuse the statement that "attractive people have more opportunity to be unfaithful" with "attractive people will be unfaithful." People aren't inherently unfaithful, or else nobody in society would care about cheating or marriage, because we'd all be cheating. Whether someone cheats has nothing to do with how they look and everything to do with their personal values and beliefs. If they have low morals AND are attractive, then, yes, they're going to cheat. But that's pretty much it.

Let me amend that part of the argument. The people who tend towards or have the potential capacity for unfaithfulness will exercise it more readily given the opportunity. Breakdown:

Unattractive cheater - no opportunity. desire. Can't cheat.
Unattractive non-cheater - no opportunity. No desire. No cheating.
Attractive non-cheater - opportunities. No desire. no cheating.
Attractive cheater - opportunities. Desire. cheating.

And there's the matter of "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." I think that being attractive and thereby having the opportunity to exercise the power that comes with it CHANGES people's values. The two aren't mutually exclusive IMO.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

Let me amend that part of the argument. The people who tend towards or have the potential capacity for unfaithfulness will exercise it more readily given the opportunity. Breakdown:

Unattractive cheater - no opportunity. desire. Can't cheat.
Unattractive non-cheater - no opportunity. No desire. No cheating.
Attractive non-cheater - opportunities. No desire. no cheating.
Attractive cheater - opportunities. Desire. cheating.

And there's the matter of "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." I think that being attractive and thereby having the opportunity to exercise the power that comes with it CHANGES people's values. The two aren't mutually exclusive IMO.

It's not mutually exclusive, but neither is there a correlation. Also, one thing I will agree with studentp0x about is that unattractive people cheat, too. In fact, most people who cheat are probably average looking -- I don't have any proof of that, but it stands to reason. It's not just Victoria's Secret models cheating with male underwear models. The overweight, middle-aged woman down the street also cheated, or the balding guy at work.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

It's not mutually exclusive, but neither is there a correlation. Also, one thing I will agree with studentp0x about is that unattractive people cheat, too. In fact, most people who cheat are probably average looking -- I don't have any proof of that, but it stands to reason. It's not just Victoria's Secret models cheating with male underwear models. The overweight, middle-aged woman down the street also cheated, or the balding guy at work.

That could be b/c there's simply more average ppl around than non-average ppl. To really know, you'd have to have ratios.

 

[studentp0x]

Let me amend that part of the argument. The people who tend towards or have the potential capacity for unfaithfulness will exercise it more readily given the opportunity. Breakdown:

Unattractive cheater - no opportunity. desire. Can't cheat.
Unattractive non-cheater - no opportunity. No desire. No cheating.
Attractive non-cheater - opportunities. No desire. no cheating.
Attractive cheater - opportunities. Desire. cheating.

And there's the matter of "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." I think that being attractive and thereby having the opportunity to exercise the power that comes with it CHANGES people's values. The two aren't mutually exclusive IMO.

that's not how it works at all.

unattractive females can EASILY cheat lol.. go on craigslist, talk to a random guy anywhere, etc. unattractive males can hire hookers.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

that's not how it works at all.

unattractive females can EASILY cheat lol.. go on craigslist, talk to a random guy anywhere, etc. unattractive males can hire hookers.

Lol you spend too much time on craigslist. I don't know that craigslist is a very representative sample.

 

[studentp0x]

Lol you spend too much time on craigslist. I don't know that craigslist is a very representative sample.

I don't actually.

Are you seriously suggesting ugly women can't get laid very easily by a different guy all the time? lol

 

[punkedoutriffs]

I don't actually.

Are you seriously suggesting ugly women can't get laid very easily by a different guy all the time? lol

I'm simply bell-curving it. But w/e this discussion really is more theoretical than practical. We've derailed from the original concern.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

I'm simply bell-curving it. But w/e this discussion really is more theoretical than practical. We've derailed from the original concern.

Wait ...you just noticed that?

 

[punkedoutriffs]

Wait ...you just noticed that?

Lol, I meant MY original concern.

 

[hedgehogcatcher]

To answer the initial post, (kind of?) I'm a woman getting my DVM, and my husband got laid off of his job a few months ago. He has "some college" (no degree). Reversed gender situation?
Kind of a horrible scary situation financially and he did float for a little bit whilst on reasonable unemployment. I admit I was embarrassed to say he was unemployed non-college graduate to my parents/close friends. Maybe this was exacerbated by the whole gender role expectations bull****.
BUT he managed to really turn it around, doing a lot of odd jobs and generating an income (not steady, but more than adequate for both of us). He's resourceful and has a lot of diverse experience. He's working really hard and contributing so I changed my mind and am now proud of him 🙂

One day when I am actually in my career field I will still feel the same way regardless of what he's doing, as long as he's making a significant contribution of some kind to our life.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

To answer the initial post, (kind of?) I'm a woman getting my DVM, and my husband got laid off of his job a few months ago. He has "some college" (no degree). Reversed gender situation?
Kind of a horrible scary situation financially and he did float for a little bit whilst on reasonable unemployment. I admit I was embarrassed to say he was unemployed non-college graduate to my parents/close friends. Maybe this was exacerbated by the whole gender role expectations bullcrap.
BUT he managed to really turn it around, doing a lot of odd jobs and generating an income (not steady, but more than adequate for both of us). He's resourceful and has a lot of diverse experience. He's working really hard and contributing so I changed my mind and am now proud of him 🙂

One day when I am actually in my career field I will still feel the same way regardless of what he's doing, as long as he's making a significant contribution of some kind to our life.

I think it's worse with a woman with a less-educated man because it's "normal" (or maybe I should say "common") for a man to be with a less-educated woman. But I think that in either case, society looks askance at it because it's odd that a person with, for example, a doctorate is with someone with a high school diploma. The unspoken question is "couldn't you find someone better educated?" Now, that's unfair because people are not just their degrees, but that's just human nature. It's like I said, if I was dating the cleaning lady, you can bet that people would say "what's going on there?" But kudos on your view of things.

 

[hedgehogcatcher]

...

 

[studentp0x]

I'm simply bell-curving it. But w/e this discussion really is more theoretical than practical. We've derailed from the original concern.

I think it's worse with a woman with a less-educated man because it's "normal" (or maybe I should say "common") for a man to be with a less-educated woman. But I think that in either case, society looks askance at it because it's odd that a person with, for example, a doctorate is with someone with a high school diploma. The unspoken question is "couldn't you find someone better educated?" Now, that's unfair because people are not just their degrees, but that's just human nature. It's like I said, if I was dating the cleaning lady, you can bet that people would say "what's going on there?" But kudos on your view of things.

I think the two main things that matter for a man looking for a woman are:

1) Attractiveness - 50%
2) Personality (includes odds of unfaithfulness) -50%


That's the primary step. THEN it's the person's education/ambition/success/family etc.

Also, as you're seeing yourself (no offence) the majority of men don't have too much option in regards to finding a partner. But to say looks don't come first by a mile is of course foolish.

 

[studentp0x]

To answer the initial post, (kind of?) I'm a woman getting my DVM, and my husband got laid off of his job a few months ago. He has "some college" (no degree). Reversed gender situation?
Kind of a horrible scary situation financially and he did float for a little bit whilst on reasonable unemployment. I admit I was embarrassed to say he was unemployed non-college graduate to my parents/close friends. Maybe this was exacerbated by the whole gender role expectations bullcrap.
BUT he managed to really turn it around, doing a lot of odd jobs and generating an income (not steady, but more than adequate for both of us). He's resourceful and has a lot of diverse experience. He's working really hard and contributing so I changed my mind and am now proud of him 🙂

One day when I am actually in my career field I will still feel the same way regardless of what he's doing, as long as he's making a significant contribution of some kind to our life.

It's definitely an issue if someone is lazy and staying home all day doing whatever. If someone is putting in honest effort though, then I don't see any further problem.
You're with your husband due to his personality and your physical attraction to him.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

Also, as you're seeing yourself (no offence) the majority of men don't have too much option in regards to finding a partner.

If that was directed to me, I don't take offense, but I also don't know what you mean.

 

[studentp0x]

If that was directed to me, I don't take offense, but I also don't know what you mean.

I mean that most men don't have a variety of options in terms of who to date seriously and potentially marry. Sure you can "try" to go for a variety of women (as you should), but I think everyone knows most men will be rejected most of the time and the times they're not, it's unlikely the woman is of good quality in every sense.
In other words, you gotta give something up, whether it's looks or personality or her socioeconomic/educational status.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

In other words, you gotta give something up, whether it's looks or personality or her socioeconomic/educational status.

Oh, I gotcha. Eh, maybe, but right now I don't feel so desperate that I feel like making a compromise. I'm still holding out for Ms. Perfect, lol. Probably what will happen is I'll accept dating older and/or divorced women. The way things are these days, there are actually a fair number of divorced women who are relatively young and who keep in very good shape (because they know they're at a disadvantage themselves). I've already decided that would be the least difficult compromise for me to accept, but that's also a few years in the future.

 

[studentp0x]

Oh, I gotcha. Eh, maybe, but right now I don't feel so desperate that I feel like making a compromise. I'm still holding out for Ms. Perfect, lol. Probably what will happen is I'll accept dating older and/or divorced women. The way things are these days, there are actually a fair number of divorced women who are relatively young and who keep in very good shape (because they know they're at a disadvantage themselves). I've already decided that would be the least difficult compromise for me to accept, but that's also a few years in the future.

Keep in mind 2nd marriages have a MUCH higher divorce rate. That is for the person who's having their 2nd marriage, which directly applies to you as well.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

Keep in mind 2nd marriages have a MUCH higher divorce rate. That is for the person who's having their 2nd marriage, which directly applies to you as well.

I'm not planning on rushing into it, but I'll keep that in mind. 😉

 

[that redhead]

I'm not planning on rushing into it, but I'll keep that in mind. 😉

Don't worry if you forget, studentpox will probably say it at least another twelve times in this thread alone 😉

 

[ruralsurg4now]

Don't worry if you forget, studentpox will probably say it at least another twelve times in this thread alone 😉

Lol, it's OK. I realize he just feels strongly about it and is trying to emphasize his point.

 

[studentp0x]

Don't worry if you forget, studentpox will probably say it at least another twelve times in this thread alone 😉

You're going into an evidence based career but you're promoting to ignore evidence in regards to personal life decisions? hmm...

 

[that redhead]

You're going into an evidence based career but you're promoting to ignore evidence in regards to personal life decisions? hmm...

Yes, I am promoting ignoring the evidence. (As for 40% being the majority..."you keep using this word...I do not think it means what you think it means"). Here's why:

Relationships are not science experiments. If I inject a certain drug into a person, previous scientific documentation tells me what I can expect to happen. Maybe the heart rate increases, maybe the person vomits. There are only so many factors that can influence the action of that drug in the body - maybe the person is obese, or on other drugs at the time. Human relationships are far more complex than the body and so many more factors come in to play in each and every relationship. No relationship is even close to the same and depends on what's happening with each participant in a specific point in time. And yet they can have similar outcomes (such as divorce). Fair enough.

But when people start comparing themselves to other people, and their relationships to other relationships, they play into the idea that there is a Certain Way that a relationship must be and that if their relationship isn't That Way, it's a bad one. (For example, I read about a woman who was upset because her boyfriend didn't propose in some splashy, Youtube-worthy event and her friends were giving her the side-eye for it.) If you are happy (or unhappy) in your relationship, you should address it in the context of your relationship, and not your parents' or your neighbors' or your best friend's. If you continually look to "the evidence" to make your relationship decisions, you're essentially dooming yourself.

So instead of looking at all of these statistics on cheating and divorce, focus on your own damn relationship and no one else's. Maybe you'll still get divorced, and that's reasonable. But maybe you'll realize that sometimes marriage takes a bit of hard work and elbow grease to tough out the hard times and instead of just giving up in this disposal-happy time of ours, you should make the effort to turn it around before throwing in the towel because 40% of other married couples have.

 

[studentp0x]

Yes, I am promoting ignoring the evidence. (As for 40% being the majority..."you keep using this word...I do not think it means what you think it means"). Here's why:

Relationships are not science experiments. If I inject a certain drug into a person, previous scientific documentation tells me what I can expect to happen. Maybe the heart rate increases, maybe the person vomits. There are only so many factors that can influence the action of that drug in the body - maybe the person is obese, or on other drugs at the time. Human relationships are far more complex than the body and so many more factors come in to play in each and every relationship. No relationship is even close to the same and depends on what's happening with each participant in a specific point in time. And yet they can have similar outcomes (such as divorce). Fair enough.

But when people start comparing themselves to other people, and their relationships to other relationships, they play into the idea that there is a Certain Way that a relationship must be and that if their relationship isn't That Way, it's a bad one. (For example, I read about a woman who was upset because her boyfriend didn't propose in some splashy, Youtube-worthy event and her friends were giving her the side-eye for it.) If you are happy (or unhappy) in your relationship, you should address it in the context of your relationship, and not your parents' or your neighbors' or your best friend's. If you continually look to "the evidence" to make your relationship decisions, you're essentially dooming yourself.

So instead of looking at all of these statistics on cheating and divorce, focus on your own damn relationship and no one else's. Maybe you'll still get divorced, and that's reasonable. But maybe you'll realize that sometimes marriage takes a bit of hard work and elbow grease to tough out the hard times and instead of just giving up in this disposal-happy time of ours, you should make the effort to turn it around before throwing in the towel because 40% of other married couples have.

40% is the first time marriage, it's around 60% for 2nd marriages and above 70% for third marriages.

Relationships aren't science experiments, but not believing stats is like when guys listen to girls when they say "Oh I'm not like other girls." (LOL!) And of course she is every bit like every other girl in every possible way.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

(For example, I read about a woman who was upset because her boyfriend didn't propose in some splashy, Youtube-worthy event and her friends were giving her the side-eye for it.)

That's incredible, usually they join in.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

By the way, you guys are both right, you just don't like how each other is putting it. (Yes, that was grammatically horrible.) studentpox is saying that statistics show that a lot of people get divorced, and that it gets worse with subsequent marriages. I've seen that, so he's not making it up. What I think he gets wrong is that it doesn't mean that 50% of everyone is getting divorced. Like, it's not that a marriage between two people in medical school has a 50% chance of failing simply because 50% of all marriages fail. That's what I and that redhead are trying to say. The statistics are what they are, and we can't deny that, but you have to be careful when applying them, is all.

 

[that redhead]

40% is the first time marriage, it's around 60% for 2nd marriages and above 70% for third marriages.

Relationships aren't science experiments, but not believing stats is like when guys listen to girls when they say "Oh I'm not like other girls." (LOL!) And of course she is every bit like every other girl in every possible way.

I agree that divorce rates are nothing to sneeze at and the issue is not that I don't believe them. The point is, why focus on what everyone else is doing or what happens so all these other people? Go out and live your life, work on your own relationship irrespective of other people's relationship and see what happens. It may be that people put a lot of hard work into their marriage and it fails anyway for any reason at all. But living your life according to what statistics say should be happening is ridiculous; if you want to live your life expecting your partner to cheat because x% of people cheat, go for it. If you decide not to get married because x% of people get divorced, be my guest. If you turn down an amazing woman (or man) because they've already been divorced, your loss.

Imagine someone told you that you were going to fail in life. Do you just sit there and wait for it to happen, or do you work on yourself to fight it? Maybe I'm just an opportunist/glass half full sort of person, but I'm not in this life to float along the river of statistics.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

By the way, you guys are both right, you just don't like how each other is putting it. (Yes, that was grammatically horrible.) studentpox is saying that statistics show that a lot of people get divorced, and that it gets worse with subsequent marriages. I've seen that, so he's not making it up. What I think he gets wrong is that it doesn't mean that 50% of everyone is getting divorced. Like, it's not that a marriage between two people in medical school has a 50% chance of failing simply because 50% of all marriages fail. That's what I and that redhead are trying to say. The statistics are what they are, and we can't deny that, but you have to be careful when applying them, is all.

 

[ruralsurg4now]

WHO'S THE MOTHERF**KING MAN?? 🙂

 

[studentp0x]

I agree that divorce rates are nothing to sneeze at and the issue is not that I don't believe them. The point is, why focus on what everyone else is doing or what happens so all these other people? Go out and live your life, work on your own relationship irrespective of other people's relationship and see what happens. It may be that people put a lot of hard work into their marriage and it fails anyway for any reason at all. But living your life according to what statistics say should be happening is ridiculous; if you want to live your life expecting your partner to cheat because x% of people cheat, go for it. If you decide not to get married because x% of people get divorced, be my guest. If you turn down an amazing woman (or man) because they've already been divorced, your loss.

Imagine someone told you that you were going to fail in life. Do you just sit there and wait for it to happen, or do you work on yourself to fight it? Maybe I'm just an opportunist/glass half full sort of person, but I'm not in this life to float along the river of statistics.

Well I think for one, this is just a thread so I'm just making convo and having an e-discussion. lol.

I think it's important for people to be well informed though. Most people are definitely not informed at all.
People assume most marriages succeed for whatever reason etc. which is inaccurate and it can affect people's understanding of their decisions. It's like people who promote having blind trust in your partner.
They don't understand that trust must be EARNED and it isn't something that should be expected. Nor do they understand that the earning process takes years and years, not months.
So we get people who are naive and get cheated on all the time and never realize it.
They continue to assume their bf/gf/wife/husband is so amazing or whatever. But as they say, love is blind 🙂

So my point is, awareness is key. Most people are not well informed. Relationship advice in a general sense should be focused on awaring people and this does include stats.

 

[that redhead]

Fair enough 👍

 

[gfa240]

Yea, but those who are less prone to cheat are also the ones that are less attractive.

LOL! hahahha, not true!