I have never started a thread like this here before, but I just wanted to post my honest, current views on SGU. I have been reading some posts here about SGU and everyone has their own opinions, some are true and some just do not know the correct information/misinformed. I have also received a good amount of messages over the past few months from prospective SGU students and those that just started this term and some that are starting in January. I am always happy to answer and give honest advice. I want to give some honest and current advice as some things posted on the carib thread is a bit dated/not true. I will not really be responding to posts on here individually, as I am busy with classes, but feel free to send me a private message if you have any specific questions and I will try to respond within a week or so. Also, please do not bash or question my reasoning for being at SGU as I have my reasons for being here and that is no one else's business. I did my exhaustive research before coming here and it was pretty much a last resort for me. I apologize in advanced for any grammar/spelling mistakes, I am a med student, not an english writer.
In general, what we are constantly told by 3rd, 4th year students, alumni is that SGU is a foot in the door. SGU has a ton of connections with alumni and residency programs, and it will get you your degree and where you want to be. However, you need to work hard for 2 years and do well on step 1.
Before I begin, I will be basically going through some of the pros and cons of SGU and my experience so far, and just note that my experience will be different from others. I will focus on the first year (first 2 terms). However, I believe a majority of current students would agree with most of this information as we constantly have the same struggles and issues. I've been at SGU for a little over a year now and some of my views have been changing since I started. I have not taken step 1 yet and I have no experience with that part of the process nor rotations, so I am solely speaking on the coursework part of SGU, mostly first two terms. I am not going to get into statistics here.
Should you go to SGU?
- This is probably the number one question on the carib forums and messages that I get.. I am not going to go too much into this, but I just want to say that YOU need to do your OWN research. Do NOT let anyone on here influence your decision (over a quarter million dollar decision). You need to exhaust all of your options for a few years before deciding carib. Take the MCAT again, or 3 times.. do a post-bacc, a masters... exhaust ALL of your options before coming here. Apply to DO schools... do whatever you can to try to get into MD/DO in the US. This should be your last resort. I have my own reasons for coming here and it was really my last resort. In general, I am happy for my choice thus far. I am US citizen and I feel safe with my choice. If you are not a US citizen, do a lot more research, because getting a residency in the US will probably be tricky for you and there's just a lot more obstacles you have to go through as an IMG non-US citizen. Do your research!
The type of students that apply and that are here/Admissions:
- Let's face it, most SGU students do not have killer stats... they have some issue with their application, whatever that may be. The only caveat may be Canadian students here. From what I hear, it is super super hard to get into med school in Canada.. and some classmates do have killer stats, but it's just way too competitive to get into Canadian med schools and they don't want to keep waiting, so they attend SGU or Ross. Other than that, most students here have some sort of weakness whether it's GPA or MCAT, or both.
- In regards to the low gpa and/or mcat dilemma.. I do notice a good amount of students here that are not ready for med school and cannot handle the rigors. After all, SGU is very for-profit and it is a business first, school second. SGU does accept some students with low stats and they do struggle here. So, if you are one of those that are accepted, you may be in for a rude awakening starting term 1. This is why there's a pretty drastic dropout/repeat rate in term 1 (especially august class, as it's larger). It's not about getting in, it's about staying in. They keep changing requirements for passing, but for us, passing an individual term is 70%, and you need a minimum 75% cumulative GPA to continue onto the next term. However, from what I have heard from many first term students, this new term that just started in August, you need a 75% to pass term 1 and keep the 75% cumulative each term. This is no small feat, especially for a first term student, considering their exam averages have been in the 77-78%'s. I will get into some detail on grading coming up in a separate section below.
- Therefore, some students have to repeat a term due to not having the minimum cumulative GPA. There is an option for this called CR (Credit Remediation), in which you basically do not take the last exam, instead you do a presentation/little paper thing on a selected topic, and you get a CR for that term (no gpa), and you repeat the term from scratch next term and do not have to pay tuition again. For some it seems to really help and they do better after that. For some, they just decide to drop out for many different reasons.
- Like I said, SGU is very for profit and I do blame admissions for accepting some students that just should not be here and are not ready for this madness. There are a select few that can improve themselves here and get study methods down when they start here. But in general, if you have bad study habits and do not really know how to study effectively before you get here, you're going to struggle as you'll just sink.. There is pretty good help here to improve those skills and learn, but you need to be proactive about it. I'll talk about academic help in another section in this post (DES).
- There are a good number of students here that did really well on the MCAT and have a masters and so on, and they do really well here.. A good number of students here should be in US medical schools.. some were waitlisted and just didn't want to wait another year, some have other reasons, but there's a lot of really bright students here. One thing in common with students that succeed here is that they work hard and realize we need to do well.
- I have had several close friends dropout after the first or second term. Mostly they just cannot handle the rigors of med school. Some have anxiety/psych issues as well and cannot handle it emotionally/psychologically.
The school in general/administration:
- Although SGU is VERY for profit, they do put a good amount of resources back into the school. For example, there's a great psychological services department here, with psychologists and therapists always there for students. There's something called DES (Dept. of Educational Services), which provides free help with studying habits, scheduling studying, workshops on anxiety, stress, MCQ workshops, etc. They also arrange and offer free tutoring from upper term students, as well as some help from the DES staff (MD grads) themselves.
- There's a brand new gym that was just built, and more study spaces going up with big group tables and large whiteboards. The school does put a good amount of money into the campus, building a new gym, dorm, more study spaces, and keeping the campus up in general. Again, SGU is a business and they are big on marketing the school, so appearance and showing off the buildings and resources is pretty big here.
- With that being said, SGU needs to invest more into quality professors and organization. I am not going to get into too much detail about this, as I will explain a little more in the academics section of this post, but there needs to be some better quality professors in the Anatomy and Physiology department, as well as better organization of lectures and slides being organized better, as well as incorporating more effective pictures and text into the lecture slides. It often feels that the professors are lazy and will not update slides/questions that are not effective to our learning.
Academics:
I see a lot of questions/confusion on this.. so let me clarify lecture styles. There's two types of lectures (big class or ITI, so you can chose from a big lecture hall type of lecture, or small group learning- ITI). For some reason they keep changing the curriculum, it seems like every term now has a little different structure of curriculum, but from what I hear, this new august term that just started will be consistent with future terms. They have been trying out different styles of curriculum (systems vs non-systems based) the past few years and it seems like they are sticking with systems based and breaking up the class into sections...But there is essentially two styles of lectures:
- The Big Class: This is the main lecture style that most students start with, at least the start of term 1. You go to a huge lecture hall for 2 hours of lecture a day. If you are in the August starting class, you'll have around 600-800 students in your lecture (broken up into 2 sections), so about 1200-1500 in your total starting class I believe. if you are in the January starting class you will have around 500-600 students in your lecture. You go to lecture 2 hours a day (it used to be 4 hours a day, but they changed things up, thankfully). They have clicker questions each lecture and this is how you get your attendance points. You have to go to at least 80% of lectures each term, otherwise they can fail you. All of these lectures are recorded live to view later, and for ITI students to view for their lectures (see below).
- ITI (Interactive Team Instruction): This is the second style of lecture. Most students in here were put into it first term or second term due to poor performance on an exam, but some students go into it by choice because they like this style of learning better. There's usually around 100-150 students in ITI each term, sometimes more or less depending which term. These students are not necessarily doing bad, most are actually doing really well on exams, but they just need that extra attention. Basically, in ITI, you start lecture an hour later (since you are watching the recorded lectures of the hour before), you are in a group of about 6-8 students at a big table, with a recent MD grad of SGU, who is your facilitator. There's a 32" ish screen TV that has the powerpoint for the lectures as well as the recorded lecture up on the screen. Everyone at your table watches the lecture on their laptop or tablet with their headphones on and the facilitator stops the lecture randomly for stop points, about 2-4 times during each lecture, to go over the past 10-15 minutes or so of what you just learned. They discuss the major high yield points, sometimes do a multiple choice question together regarding the material you just learned, or sometimes draw out a pathway together on the white board. You then go back to watching the lecture on your screen and then they stop you again... In general, you get more instruction on what is high yield, what to focus on, and the actual professor for the lecture is also there in the room to answer questions from you or your group. It is interactive, and you get more time with the lecture material and more help if needed. Instead of 2 hours of lecture, you are there for 3 hours a day... Since each lecture in the main group is 1 hour, in ITI you spend 1.5 hours on each lecture since you stop to discuss. They will never force you to go into ITI, but if you are struggling in the main lecture they will suggest you to think about going into it and it helps a lot of students. In order to go back into the main lecture, you have to get above an 80% cumulative gpa, but most just stay in it and they like it.
Grading:
- There's a lot that goes into your grade here, it's not all about your exam scores, but you need to do well, at least pass your exams in order to pass the term/keep your cumulative gpa.
- Each term varies a little, but in general your first year, you have 5 exams each term worth about 70% of your grade. This is purely written exams. The first exam is a bit shorter, about 105 questions, 2 hours, then the next 4 exams are about 130 questions, 3 hours long. You take the exams in an exam hall, proctored, you get your own little cubicle, and you take them electronically on your laptop via a secure software that locks down your computer. Bring earplugs!! I always wear the foam earplugs in exams as I have a hard time concentrating with sneezes, coughs, etc.
- Once you get to Terms 4 and 5 exams can be as long as 4 hours, 200 questions. Some exams have about 40-50 cumulative questions.
- Regarding exams, every exam has about 15 experimental questions (new questions professors are trying out) and you do not know which ones are experimental. Those 15 questions do not count towards your grade, but when you get your grade report the next day you can see what percentage of those experimental questions you got correct. I sometimes get all of them correct and it's frustrating because it could of helped my score, and sometimes I get only a few correct, but oh well you never know which ones they are.
- The 2nd-5th exams have cumulative material from the previous modules/lecture material which kind of forces you to keep up with the material and keep it fresh.
- Other than exams, your first year you will have 2 cadaver lab practicals each term, online quizzes each week, IMCQ (interactive multiple choice questions) sessions, Small Group points, an OSCE (patient exam), professionalism points (basically don't do anything naughty)- freebie points, and at the end of term 2 there's a BSCE exam (cumulative exam for the first years material). The middle of Term 5 you have BSCE 2 (cumulative exam) and CBSE (final cumulative exam before step).
- So, basically you can get an average of lets say 70% on just your written exams, and all of those other points can help you get around a 75% in the class... We call them soft points, as they are easy points to get (online quizzes, labs, IMCQs, it's basically just a matter of attending and you get the point). It can help boost your grade.
- I see some people post here asking about how fair the questions and exams are... I think it's pretty fair. They pretty much solely ask you material that is in the lecture. They never not ask something that is not in the lecture slides. Therefore, if you know the lecture slides 100%, you will do well. But, with that being said, most students need to use outside resources to help fill in some gaps that the lecture slides leave out in order to fully understand the lecture slides. Most students in general don't really read the textbooks, it depends on the subject though. The textbooks we use the most are the practice question text books (mostly anatomy) and some physiology books.
- Exam questions are usually pretty fair. There's sometimes an odd question not worded well, and they will usually throw those questions out or those are the experimental ones. All of the exam and quiz questions range from 1st order to 3rd order questions, mostly USMLE style questions, and answer choices usually A-E, sometimes A-J, K, I (lol it's all a matter of narrowing down the answer choices) and sometimes they give you a chart with a lot of answer choices.. so it's a matter of narrowing stuff down. There's also the axis of truth, sometimes one answer is MORE correct than another one, even though two answer choices may be true, one is the BEST and MOST TRUE answer... yeah, you'll see what I mean eventually.
Quality of Education:
I will be brutally honest with this part, and I do not want to get into specifics as I am not here to bash SGU, but to give honest advice. The last thing I will comment on that prospective students need to be aware of, is the quality of education you get here. SGU needs to put more focus and money into hiring higher quality instructors. There are some good professors that I truly love, and you can tell they enjoy teaching and they are good at it. This is mostly the biochemistry, histology, genetics, cell bio departments. Some of those professors have taught at US or UK grad and/or medical schools and they really know how to teach and organize their slides/information really well.
- The Bad: Some other SGU students have mentioned this in the forum in the past as well, but unfortunately the Anatomy, Neuro, Path, and Physiology department here are pretty bad. They tend to be really disorganized, the slides are all over the place, and some lecturers only have a MASTERS degree!! It's med school, we should be taught strictly by PhD or MD's. The Anatomy and Physio department tends to have professors from Trinidad, Grenada, India, Nigeria, and they are sometimes hard to understand with their accent, they tend to be disorganized, and just don't really have the ability to teach effectively. Some of them constantly make errors in lecture and just do not seem like they truly know the material they are presenting. Anatomy is pretty much a self-taught part of first year. Most students just rely on the Complete Anatomy app, Youtube, Dr. Najeeb, and just learning from the textbook in general.
- Path in Term 4 is a joke.. taught absolutely horribly. Term 4 is probably the hardest term there is, and it's no joke. It gets a lot of students to repeat. The slides are just totally disorganized, the teachers are outsourced from India and Nigeria and they don't know how to teach at all, and they don't teach to the level of questions they ask on the exams.
- You have cadaver lab just the first two terms. Cadaver lab is a hot mess here, pretty much having to learn everything on your own in open hours and there tends to be a lack of help there, so it's more or less learning it yourself and just finding out what is high yield from upper termers for the lab practicals. The cadaver lab practicals aren't worth a huge amount of your grade, but those points can really help. The cadavers are already dissected for you, you are not cutting anything, basically you can touch the cadavers and move some stuff around gently, but everything is out there for you.
The Complainers:
- Something I've noticed especially as my time progresses here is that there are a lot of negative people here. Yes I agree with a lot of the complaints students have, some are valid, some are just spoiled kids not getting what they are used to getting. Academically, I understand some of the complaints students have and I agree with a lot of it. However, some you just cannot help- it's medical school and it's hard, and some students just like to always find an excuse to blame something on. I feel like medical education in general, even hearing from US med student friends, needs to be reformed. Even in the US, med students have to use outside resources because we are not really being taught the way that we should. We have to use so many outside resources- extra books, apps, subscriptions, and teach ourselves most things. It's just how it is, and students here complain a lot about it.
- In regards to life here, there's a lot of complaints from students, which just do not understand that this is not the US and you cannot have everything your way. We are basically in a third world country, yes the campus is fairly modern and has all of our basic needs, but there are storms, it rains a lot, wifi goes out sometimes, there's bugs, sometimes there's no hot water, etc... it's how life is down here. I really enjoy it here, I try to immerse myself in the culture whenever I can, talk to locals, eat local food, etc... It's an experience being here and some students don't understand that there's a whole other culture outside of the campus gates.
- In general, students sign themselves up to be here, and there's an airport. They can leave if they don't like it. This isn't the US and it will never be the US, so those students really need to realize the island life is different and to stop complaining about every little thing.
- In general, there's a lot of negativity here. There's a lot of stress, anxiety, deadlines, etc. I get it... Surround yourself with positive and uplifting people, it makes a big difference.
In Conclusion:
- Yes it is expensive here, but it is worth it if you can do it and it's your only real option at this point. There's scholarships, ask your admissions counselor for into on it to see if there's one you qualify for. A lot of students don't know about them.
- Don't get too caught up on the dropout statistics at SGU (worry about it at other lower carib schools), but it's simple- don't be that statistic. You know what you are getting yourself into and you know it's going to be hard. If you are not ready for this, then you will probably be the statistic. I feel like the exams are fair, the material is fair, you just need to put in the effort. Most students that drop out are just not ready for the amount of material and/or they do not put all of their effort into it. If you have a low GPA or MCAT, you need to realize what your weaknesses are before coming here. You need to change things up because if you were getting C's in undergrad science courses, well you are going to struggle here. You need to be able to change your study schedule/habits and realize what you are weak in, in order to improve yourself and do well. There's a lot of help here, and a ton of resources, you just need to go out and ask for help.
- All in all, SGU has their pros and cons... as does any school, it will get you to where you want to be, a practicing physician in the US.. It is just more difficult and you have to go through more obstacles as a carib IMG. Carib med schools should be a LAST resort. It is NOT easy here. In a way, I think it is harder here than US med schools. We do a lot of self-teaching and we have to find out a lot of resources ourselves, but from what I hear, it makes us much stronger students and physicians in the future.
- For the most part, I feel like we are being prepared pretty well. Classes are challenging, but do-able, and they stress the high yield USMLE concepts pretty well.
- Exhaust all of your options with US med schools first (MD and DO), and if doesn't work out, then do serious research in carib med schools and know what you are getting yourself into.
I know this is long, but I really hope this helps, as I have been seeing a lot of repeated questions and misinformation out there.
**Lastly, if you are
not a US citizen and you are thinking about coming to SGU, do even more research... because there's a lot more hoops and hurdles you have to go through, and it is even riskier if you are going to try to get into a US residency.
****** UPDATE December 2019... to the above original post ******
So, I finished my time on the island (Term 5) a few weeks ago. I must say, this school will get you the degree you want, the MD. If you want the degree hard enough, you will work for it and the school sure does make you work for it. They are changing this up quite a bit from when I started, so please take everything I said with a grain of salt, as they are changing some of the curriculum and academic promotion standards. I'll summarize some points below that I found to be updated/changed/important to note:
1. When I started SGU, it was 70% to pass Term 1. Terms 2-5 you needed to pass the term with a 70%, as well as keep a minimum cumulative GPA of 75% in order to proceed to the next term. You received term grades of A, B, C, F, and a percent grade. UPDATE....for this Fall 2019 entering class, they changed to pass/fail. You need something like a 69% to pass term 1 and 2, and then 72.5% to pass terms 2-5, and no cumulative GPA is looked at for term to term promotion. This is a pretty big change, as a lot of students repeated (CRd) terms because their cumulative GPA was on the border. It was too much of a mess dealing with the cumulative GPA and making sure it was at least 75%, so this is a good change, in my opinion. Also, each term you will receive a pass or high pass grade, no more A, B, C, F.
2. After finishing Term 5 on the island, I must say that I did learn what I needed to learn for step 1 (for the most part). They do teach you a lot of stuff that is not really important for step, they will teach you a lot of details on pharm and micro that are just not necessary and not on step 1, yet they leave out some things and don't teach you a few diseases/drugs that will be on step. So, all in all it seems like they do teach you what you need to know, yes. However, the professors are really really bad, for the most part. There are a few gems here and there (mostly Term 1 and 2 teachers), but as you proceed to terms 4 and 5, the professors are just awful. They get a lot of them from India, Trinidad, Nigeria, and other African and Caribbean islands... probably because it is cheaper. Most just cannot teach and read off of poorly written slides. This can be rather frustrating.
3. The school is a business first, school second. I saw its true colors in my 2 years on the island. Yes they put a lot of money into academic support and help, a new gym, and student services, but they also shove a ton of money into marketing the school. The school has changed quite a bit over the past 2 years I was there. I must admit, they need to put more money into hiring better professors and getting more organized, but they do care about the students and have made some changes for the better (Belford hall- new gym, study hall, classroom, beach area), more food vendors, excellent bus service... they do care about the students, but it really is a business first.
4. There's a lot of talk on attrition and how many make it past term 5, and honestly it is so hard to say because there's a good bit that repeat a term or drop out/fail/etc... However, i'd say that roughly 70% of my starting class from term 1 has made it past (and passed) term 5. Most students that end up repeating (CRing) do it terms 1 or 4. However, I think the repeating numbers will decrease now that there is no cumulative GPA requirements. Also, I read some false information on the forums about repeating a term at SGU. If you repeat, the second time you do the term you do not pay tuition again, you just pay the student fees and living costs, but tuition is waived. So, the school is NOT making students repeat just to get more money. This is absolutely false.
5. In the end, from my time on the island, I must say that it will get you to where you want to be, indeed. You will have to deal with a lot of BS and stupid stuff, and disorganization, but you will learn a lot, you will be prepared for step 1, and you sure can survive the island. I will still say SGU, and any caribbean school should be a LAST RESORT, yes 100%. It was a last resort for me, and so far it is working well, but I have had way too many friends repeat a term or two, or fail out. It is really sad to have some close friends fail or drop out with nothing but 100k or whatever in debt. Some of them just scraped by each term and finally failed a term or repeated and couldn't pass the second time, maybe they shouldn't of been accepted in the first place, maybe they just didn't learn how to study the right way, who knows, but it is really tough to see it happen to some amazing people. You do need to work really hard, nothing will be handed to you there.
In the end, I learned three things you need to survive the island: Grit, Perseverance, and a passion for becoming a Doctor. If you don't have any of those 3, you will probably struggle there. Hope this helps!
gmdc.gd
wfme.org
