Stanford vs UCSF

[subee27]

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone had an opinion about these comparative programs. I know both are pretty different in terms of patient populations seen, but I wondering in terms of resident satisfaction and faculty involvement/accessibility, what people have heard. Thank you for your feedback!

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[joekayone]

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone had an opinion about these comparative programs. I know both pretty are different in terms of patient populations seen, but I wondering in terms of resident satisfaction and faculty involvement/accessibility, what people have heard. Thank you for your feedback!

I've visited both places during the current interview season. For me, UCSF seems to have advantage in almost every single aspect: more eclectic patient population, richer overall experience, more satisfied residents who seem to come from more name-brand institutions (for what that's worth), better therapy training (maybe the best in the country), and location (trust me, Palo Alto is pretty much completely different from the environs of the City).

There are two exceptions: UCSF, by their own admission, doesn't have the strongest neuroscience training. But I don't know how Stanford's stacks up against programs other than UCSF anyway in that aspect. The second is that Stanford seems to emphasize research A LOT. If you go to the website, you'll read on their FAQs page how this isn't quite true, but almost all of my interviewers asked me if I was specifically interested in research during residency, which doesn't happen in most other interviews in various big-time academic places I visited (including Columbia, Mass General, NYU, etc.). But it does seem like if research is your thing mostly, then it may not be a bad place to be at all.

 

[subee27]

Thanks! I appreciate the info. I've heard from different people that neither program is as strong as their names, but I also heard that in regard to CA, they are along the top (they seem to compete for #2 in CA among the various people I have asked). My PD was particularly pretty negative on the UCSF program, but when I was there for my interview I loved it so I guess I'm worried that I was missing some valuable insight into the program's weaknesses. I really enjoyed Stanford as well but had heard that the PD is not very accessible or involved (didn't get to meet him). I do appreciate your point about Palo Alto, I'm from the north bay, so south bay is a bit foreign to me.

 

[nitemagi]

Interesting how UCSF doesn't have good neuroscience training for psych residents. They had the best neuroscience training program (for Ph.D.'s) in the country for several years running. Looks like they're slipping (in the rankings and the trainings).

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Interesting how UCSF doesn't have good neuroscience training for psych residents. They had the best neuroscience training program (for Ph.D.'s) in the country for several years running. Looks like they're slipping (in the rankings and the trainings).

They really are two different things. Do you know of anyplace that really does train residents in cutting edge, graduate level neuroscience? There certainly are many places where neuroscience research is being done in departments of psychiatry, and a motivated resident can certainly get involved in that, but for the majority...
I had graduate training in neuroscience, and it was interesting to watch my colleagues' eyes glaze over (at an "academically-oriented" program, mind you!) when a research attending trotted out some molecular biology or genetics in our senior didactics.

 

[JMD]

UCSF also has what could be argued is the best neurology program in the country, but that probably means absolutely nothing for the psych. training.

Although alot of us interested in neuroscience and neurology envision a golden age when the "brain" fields are all integrated, the reality is that they are still very separate fields, especially in terms of residency training (where it's pretty unlikely you'll be doing the kind of work done by the Kandels, Damasios, and Ramachandrans of the world)

 

[OldPsychDoc]

UCSF also has what could be argued is the best neurology program in the country, but that probably means absolutely nothing for the psych. training.

Although alot of us interested in neuroscience and neurology envision a golden age when the "brain" fields are all integrated, the reality is that they are still very separate fields, especially in terms of residency training (where it's pretty unlikely you'll be doing the kind of work done by the Kandels, Damasios, and Ramachandrans of the world)

You want to stick electrodes in sea slugs?

 

[strangeglove]

Sticking electrodes into sea slugs (or rats for that matter) can seem pretty far removed from clinical psychiatry. But people like Damasio and Ramachandran are not doing this; they gain their insights into the workings of the human mind-brain by observing the behavior of real people. Psychiatrists are in a great position to do this. For this reason, there is plenty of connection between what one learns in residency and neuroscience research, especially if you are interested in cognitive neuroscience of memory, emotion, executive function, etc. I think many basic science researchers who become clinicians become disillusioned about basic research because they see little relevance of this research to their patients' lives. These tend to be people who studied rats or sea slugs for their PhD thesis or during their fellowship. I suspect OldPscyhDoc is in this category.

 

[JMD]

But people like Damasio and Ramachandran are not doing this; they gain their insights into the workings of the human mind-brain by observing the behavior of real people. Psychiatrists are in a great position to do this. For this reason, there is plenty of connection between what one learns in residency and neuroscience research, especially if you are interested in cognitive neuroscience of memory, emotion, executive function, etc.

I agree that there is great connection between what one learns in residency and neuroscience research, my point was that just because there is great neuroscience research going on at a university does not mean that it will filter down into the residency training.

I was just using those names as examples because, even though their reearch is theoretically very relevant to psychiatry (i.e.- emotion, cognition, etc.), it is not something a resident will typically be dealing with on a day-to-day basis... although I hope that someday it is.

For example, I doubt the fact that Damasio has moved to USC has had any major impact on what the psych residents are learning/doing there.

 

[psychmatch07]

I kind of have a different opinion. I know both programs very well, and can tell you that ucsf residents are not very happy with their administration, and often feel that they are unheard. Additionally, they work longer hours/more call than stanford residents-it is generally believed that stanford residents have it "easier." lastly, if you are interested in Child/Adolescent, Stanford has by far the better program of the two. UCSF's program is undergoing serious renovations, and the Director of Stanford's program is awesome!

 

[subee27]

Thanks psychmatch07 - I'm glad that someone finally got off the neuroscience/sea slug thread.

 

[psychmatch07]

Has anyone received a phone call or email from the PD of Stanford or UCSF? If so, by email or phone and what did they say?

 

[atsai3]

Has anyone received a phone call or email from the PD of Stanford or UCSF? If so, by email or phone and what did they say?

The UCSF PD tells each interviewing med student on interview day that one of your faculty interviewers will be in touch with you several weeks after your interview day to provide you with feedback about your candidacy.

-AT.

 

[subee27]

Has anyone received a phone call or email from the PD of Stanford or UCSF? If so, by email or phone and what did they say?

I got a call from the PD at Stanford. He mostly asked if I had any questions about the program. UCSF had a faculty member contact me by email to give me some feedback from the selection committee and offered to pay for a second look. A friend of mine/classmate heard by phone from both programs.

 

[joekayone]

Interesting how UCSF doesn't have good neuroscience training for psych residents. They had the best neuroscience training program (for Ph.D.'s) in the country for several years running. Looks like they're slipping (in the rankings and the trainings).

Yeah, I asked one of the faculty interviewers about this, in response to his telling me about their lagging in neurosci education. He also thought it was kinda strange how the two didn't match up, but he didn't seem so concerned.

But as far as therapy training goes, UCSF seems to be one of the best in the country (at least by reputation).