Starting Peds Rotation Tomorrow - CA1

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

thetoddJR

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Messages
35
Reaction score
30
Starting at our very busy pediatrics hospital for the next two months. I didnt do any peds anesthesia in med school and haven't seen a pediatric patient since 2017. Read the Baby Miller chapter. Looked on here for good apps and downloaded them.

What quick tips or things you wish you knew do y'all have for me?

Thanks in advance

Members don't see this ad.
 
Starting at our very busy pediatrics hospital for the next two months. I didnt do any peds anesthesia in med school and haven't seen a pediatric patient since 2017. Read the Baby Miller chapter. Looked on here for good apps and downloaded them.

What quick tips or things you wish you knew do y'all have for me?

Thanks in advance
Don't induce unless your staff is present. No matter what time pressure you are on, no matter what the surgeon is saying about how things need to get started. You'll get in trouble. Seems obvious, but it's amazing what a little peer pressure will do to a lonesome resident in the thick of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Members don't see this ad :)
My advice for people just starting off on Peds anesthesia.

- have your patient’s weight written on tape or paper and readily available for anyone to see in the event of an emergency.
- have emergency doses of sux and atropine drawn up and easily accessible with an IM needle next to it.
- for oral airways and ETTs, make sure to have a couple of different sizes at your disposal and quickly accessible.
- wait until the patient is DEFINITELY ready to be extubated and then wait some more.
- Regardless of how comfortable you feel extubating an adult without the attending around, when you start off on Peds (for the first month especially) do not extubate a kid without your attending around.

Enjoy yourself and perfect your IV skills. Peds anesthesia can be daunting but once you stop letting the fear paralyze you, you learn a lot. Your attendings should hopefully know that it’s still early in your CA1 year and will ideally have a healthy amount of supervision over you.

Things to focus on this month:
- building rapport with nervous parents
- Learning how to mask induce
- IV skills, especially on cute chubby hands and feet (landmark guided Saphenous and third knuckle IVs are good ones to learn)
- physiologic differences between children and adults and its anesthetic implications
- how to use a Miller blade for intubations
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
Chill out.

Kids are just little adults.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 8 users
Be conservative. Ask for help early. Especially in pedi hospitals, the OR staff will judge the **** out of you for being unsafe. Extubating because you want to move fast? They will hate you for it. Waited an extra 10 minutes for the kid to wake up because you want to be safe? They’ll respect you for it. I know the goal isn’t to please the OR staff. But those are the types of behaviors expected on a peds rotation.

Think the kid needs more time to wake up? Take more time. Think maybe you want some help from your attending? Call. Not sure if you’re moving air while masking? Speak up.

Atropine, sux, epi in appropriate doses drawn up, on the cart, needle (not the 18g!) next to it. Weight and doses written next to drugs. Some places have laminated cards for a given weight. You can use that if you have it.

Be very precise with dosing and careful with labeling. Don’t draw up more medication in a syringe than you can safely give the patient. That way if you make a mistake you didn’t kill the kid. Same goes for fluids. Be careful about how much is hanging. A 1 liter bag of LR is suddenly 200ml/kg.

In general, over-communicate with your attending, ask for help, don’t be a hero and err on the side of safe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Don't induce unless your staff is present. No matter what time pressure you are on, no matter what the surgeon is saying about how things need to get started. You'll get in trouble. Seems obvious, but it's amazing what a little peer pressure will do to a lonesome resident in the thick of it.
Know how to treat laryngospasm like the back of your hand.

Same answer, IM sux. (Except in the first case it's going into the surgeon.)
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 2 users
The "anesthesiologist" app for Android is money for peds. Still use it in private practice all the time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
If it's been a while since you've been around pediatric patients (you mentioned about 3 years..) then expect to feel pretty uncomfortable for the first several days...
  • The dosing is very particular and you'll find yourself triple checking things on your phone calculator
  • Their physical size feels weird at first and how they are positioned is different
  • Their hemodynamics and what an "acceptable" BP/HR are for different ages under GA is different
  • Then how you treat hemodynamic instability changes too (usually fluid, less gas, and maybe calcium, much rarer to use vasoconstrictors... and if it's an unrepaired CHD child then you'll start using FiO2 to manipulate the BP which is just bizarre for the unfamilair)
  • The syringe pumps are different as is the tubing they use
  • Inhalational inductions are a different kind of work-flow than a standard IV induction. Learning all the little tricks on how to get off to sleep with minimal traumatic memories for the child is new.
  • IV's are more challenging, and for arterial lines and CVLs US-guidance is more or less the standard of care now if it is available -- but the equipment and catheter sizes are different, so again it's just one more thing you have to specifically think about whereas in adults it's all the same.
  • There is more overall heightened awareness and attention to detail of the little things (bubbles, temperature, padding, ETT taping)
  • The culture feels different and the attitudes of everyone involved (your attending, the surgeon, the nurse, the scrub tech) tends to be more overprotective and less forgiving of people who are too casual or take shortcuts.
There's no amount of studying that will prepare you for those parts, you just need to jump in and start doing cases. Have a good attitude, be teachable, and let your preparation for the cases and careful attention to detail show your attendings that you really do care about your patients. After a week or so you'll find a groove and start mimicking the practices of your attendings and your confidence will grow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Agree with above^

Haven't done peds since residency except for a couple of bleeding tonsils (>10yrs old) on call, but I can't say I miss it. I remember peds feeling more intensive than adults, everything is calculated to the mg\mcg\ml so it felt more scientific unlike adults where you can get away with injecting a whole vial or syringe of something and it's a-ok. I got good at doing peds IVs especially with landmark based so that was a good skill to pick up and will make you much better in the adult world as well. I hated the microdripper tubing, de-aring every port and having to come in early and set up, and every case needing different size tubes\lma etc. Adults are easy and fast :)
 
Be very precise with dosing and careful with labeling. Don’t draw up more medication in a syringe than you can safely give the patient.

can’t stress this enough. During my peds rotation I accidentally gave a patient 10 mg of rocuronium instead of 1 mg. Pre-sugammadex days too. Patient did fine but I can’t forget that pit in my stomach after realizing what I had done when the patient had 0 twitches after an hour.

I actually still only draw up what I can safely give when caring for old frail adults, all due to that experience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You'll have to be double anal about dosing by weight, that's definitely number one.

Number two...it seemed like at my institution we learned that kids really have good physiology overall, so pressors are not like adults where you use phenyl and ephedrine. More likely, we started patients off with 20-30 cc/kg boluses. It's more likely volume than bad physiology in kids. Now the congenital abnormalities... diff story.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
For my first CA1 peds rotation, I would make a list of every medication I was likely to use during a particular case and the weight-based dose so I didn't have to make the calculation in a pinch when I needed it. Eventually this becomes second nature, but like others are saying, med miscalculation can get ****ty quick when you've got a 3 kg kid on the table.

Also agree with others about really hammering home the basics like airway management and access. I only use a straight blade (wisc, phillips, miller) with kids just to reinforce the skill (I'm usually a mac guy with adults). And tiny baby IVs are still one of the toughest procedures I've come across as a resident.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Great thread. Everyone doing an excellent job of reminding me why peds is pretty much the worst 2nd only to OB
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Great tips. I’ll add one more, always use pressure control or PSV when putting them on the vent. Always check the cuff pressure
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Oh yeah and actually listen for bilateral breath sounds after intubating kids.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Always check the cuff pressure
Checking the cuff pressure is a good one. You don’t want little airways getting edema. I see people skip this step all the time, even experienced CRNAs. It only takes a few seconds and you usually put too much air in the cuff. Don’t be lazy, listen for a leak.
If you don’t it may be stridor time, croupy cough in the pacu, maybe an admit or racemic, picu, etc. potentially avoidable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
One trick I learned early on from a Boston children’s guy is don’t be afraid to pop in an LMA without an IV once the kid is deep on gas (look for physiological signs of stage 2 to end first) if you are going on a hunting expedition for an IV. Of course make sure it is kosher with your staff first but it’s quite nice to not be stuck holding a mask when you one day are solo in a surgery center managing these patients. Also, definitely worth practicing alternative modes of pre-medication other than oral versed because you will have kids spit it out
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
One trick I learned early on from a Boston children’s guy is don’t be afraid to pop in an LMA without an IV once the kid is deep on gas (look for physiological signs of stage 2 to end first) if you are going on a hunting expedition for an IV. Of course make sure it is kosher with your staff first but it’s quite nice to not be stuck holding a mask when you one day are solo in a surgery center managing these patients. Also, definitely worth practicing alternative modes of pre-medication other than oral versed because you will have kids spit it out
Or place an awake LMA (if it’s a neonate or infant and potentially a difficult airway)
 
Oh yeah. Stick some lido on your finger, swirl it around in there....the kid sucks on it like it's a nipple. Throat's numb and in goes the LMA. Works great for pierre robin kids!

Never seen this in 8 years of peds, but sounds pretty cool.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Oh yeah. Stick some lido on your finger, swirl it around in there....the kid sucks on it like it's a nipple. Throat's numb and in goes the LMA. Works great for pierre robin kids!

Then what? Breath them down while you look for an IV?
 
To build rapport:
When you meet kids in preop you want to be at their height. I’m 6 feet tall, which can be scary to kids, so I always kneel next to the bed when talking to them/parents and examining them. You want to be at their height or lower to be less threatening. Have something kids will like (cartoon character name badge holder, stethoscope accessory, and/or scrub cap). If kids are afraid of you examining them, either fake examine the parent first (stethoscope on mom or dad) to show it doesn’t hurt. Either that or do something silly like put your stethoscope on their knee and ask them if that’s where it goes. Bonus points for Disney+ on your phone.

One of the toughest thing about peds is learning the weight-based dosing cold. Always look up a drug dose before you give it. On my first peds rotation I almost gave 800 mg of IV Tylenol to a baby before I caught myself and I’ve been paranoid ever since. Now I know the drugs cold, but an app like LexiComp can really help you with the dosing. You NEED to know weight-based dosing of emergency drugs (how much IM or IV sux would you give for laryngospasm, how much epi in a code?) Everything else you can learn over time and look up. If you don’t know something, always ask your attending. I like trainees who ask lots of questions; the ones who show up on their first peds anesthesia rotation with the attitude that “I’ve got this” are the ones who terrify me.

Getting a feel for normal vitals is also important. HR of 50 in a teenager is probably fine; HR of 50 in a neonate means it’s chest compressions time.

As for IV sizes, < 1 yo a 24 g is usually plenty (and 22 g is a volume line). For most pre-pubescent cases that you’re not expecting a lot of bleeding a 22 is normally fine. IVs in chunky babies can be really tough and are usually deeper than you’re used to. If you’re having trouble finding something, the saphenous is usually pretty good. If a kid is a chronic patient and has few IV sites, scan with ultrasound for the saphenous just below the knee as most people will not have gone there before. Don’t poke until the kids have gone through stage two (you’ll heart the heart rate go up initially with mask induction, wait until it goes back down before stimulating the child) or you may have to remember your IM sux dosing.

I know this will make me sound like one of THOSE peds anesthesiologists but NEVER push a bubble into any kid, especially a small one. I let my IVs bleed back before hooking up to tubing, and if they don’t bleed back I fill the hub with saline using the safetied needle from my angiocath or another angiocath. When you attach a new syringe to a manifold, draw back to pull any bubbles into the syringe and always push drugs with the plunger aligned up (so that bubbles rise away from the manifold). You really can cause a stroke or MI in a baby with a small air bubble.

Watch how much fluid you’re giving. It’ll depend on the case, size and npo time to determine how much you should be giving but remember the general rule for calculating maintenance fluids: 4 cc/kg/hr for the first 10
Kg + 2 cc/kg/hr for the next 10 kg + 1 cc/kg/hr for anything more than that. So the maintenance rate on a 15 kg kid is 10*4 cc/kg/hr + 5*2 cc/kg/hr = 50 cc/hour.

ETT sizes: 4 + age (years)/4 for uncuffed (though you should almost never use an uncuffed tube). For cuffed subtract 1/2. So for a 1 year old it would be 4+1/4 - 1/2 = 3.75, so use a 3.5 cuffed. Typical depth is usually ~ 3 times the ETT size (for that kid it would be about 3.5*3 = 10.5 cm).

For neonates (in uncuffed ETT sizes):
< 1 kg gets a 2.5, 1-2 kg gets a 3, 2+ kg gets a 3.5. Estimated depth in cm is 6 + weight in kg. A 2.5 kg kid should be able to have a 3.5 uncuffed (3.0 cuffed) at 8.5 cm. Ask your attending to show you how to find appropriate depth with mainstemming and how to figure out how much air goes in a cuffed.


Neonate: Miller 0, infant Miller 1, toddler Wisconsin (or Miller) 1.5. Tiny preemie might need a Miller 00.

Epi fixes a lot of problems.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Then what? Breath them down while you look for an IV?

those PR kids are often un-DL-able (wow, harder to spell than say) and masking them down to put an IV in can be a disaster. If they’re young enough they truly don’t care about an LMA if they’re numb. They’ll sit there wide awake while you line up a FOB or they’ll fall asleep if you breath them down and then you have a fairly secure airway especially compared to masking. I’ve also done it with kids who already have IVs because you can line up the FOB without compromising the airway at all. Once you’re lined up, push the meds and in goes the tube.

edit: for the record if you’re really terrified of a kids airway you just stick an IV in them awake while holding them
down. The LMA thing is usually to have a good conduit to intubate when a laryngoscope won’t do anything
 
Last edited:
Top