Starting SMP and Med school the same summer

[Amelia09]

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I made this post on reddit too. My gpa is a 3.0 (with grade replacement) and without it, it's ~2.7 I think...I looked into EVMS's SMP and their cut off is a 2.75. Also georgetown's SMP's cutoff is a 3.0 (with grade replacement because I emailed them asking).

After hearing that, my plan was to take the MCAT next year, apply for those SMP's and hopefully get in. Then I can complete it with high grades. What are the chances I can complete the SMP and start medical school that same year at the school I did the SMP at? So I would finish SMP in 2018 and start med school that same year in 2018 at my SMP school. My EC's are in order (volunteering, shadowing, research, leadership activities) so low are the chances if I try doing things this way?

I know SMP's rarely take their students and place them in the med school class that same summer. But does it still happen? Does my gpa kill me for a chance like that? Thanks.

 

[tekkenman11]

Is your goal to get into medical school or to get into medical school quickly?

It is highly unlikely, that you should even consider applying via AMCAS or ACCOMAS until you have fully completed your SMP. first of all there is no longer any grade replacement in AACOMAS nor has there ever been in AMCAS. All grades, all courses, will be in your GPAs. Second, you would have to apply via both systems the summer before you even finish your SMP, which would mean your applications would already need to be submitted. Third, you would likely get rejected, rather screened out before even being considered and thus waste time, money and effort. Fourth, that would put you in a weaker position as a reapplicant.

so here is how you plan your schedule. You dont. Until you have a successful SMP and a solid MCAT, you dont even consider when you will apply. Until you have both those measures in your hand, until you expend all your time money, and effort on studying SMP and prepping for the MCAT, you shouldnt even think about working on AMCAS or ACCOMAS. So stop worrying about when you apply to medical school and just worry about finishing your SMP

re applicant at schools OP would theoretically apply to****

I applied to a handful of schools two years ago before my SMP, but when I re-applied to 2.5x as many schools this year I obviously didn't mention re-applying in my PS. Nor did I mention it in secondaries unless that school specifically asked. Thus far at the interviews I have attended my first gap year wasn't even brought up either. The discussions just went from UG -> SMP -> current activities. As far as they know I took time to mature and then enrolled in a SMP to make myself more competitive.

TO OP: As mentioned before, with your current stats you would be wise to apply after completing your SMP.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

What are the chances I can complete the SMP and start medical school that same year at the school I did the SMP at?

Like next to zero.

It's just not reasonable that the school, who would be issuing IIs while your SMP grades would be mostly or completely unknown, would bother.

The fact that rarely a school allow this would suggest to me that the lucky ones had GPAs that were "close" so one semester of SMP grades were strong enough to issue a late II after those grades were known. Think about it...the med school is only going to see those first semester grades in Dec or Jan, and then you're expecting them to issue you an II? With your current GPA? Not likely unless you have some other hook.

In fact, I think that the med schools would question your ability to make smart decisions if you tried this.

 

[Amelia09]

Like next to zero.

It's just not reasonable that the school, who would be issuing IIs while your SMP grades would be mostly or completely unknown, would bother.

The fact that rarely a school allow this would suggest to me that the lucky ones had GPAs that were "close" so one semester of SMP grades were strong enough to issue a late II after those grades were known. Think about it...the med school is only going to see those first semester grades in Dec or Jan, and then you're expecting them to issue you an II? With your current GPA? Not likely unless you have some other hook.

In fact, I think that the med schools would question your ability to make smart decisions if you tried this.

Don't they issue II later in the cycle like May for someone at their school's SMP? That's what I read on SDN. I know it's uncommon for people to start med school that same summer, but it still happens. I'm just trying to figure out how, and who those seats are given to.

 

[Goro]

I made this post on reddit too. My gpa is a 3.0 (with grade replacement) and without it, it's ~2.7 I think...I looked into EVMS's SMP and their cut off is a 2.75. Also georgetown's SMP's cutoff is a 3.0 (with grade replacement because I emailed them asking).

After hearing that, my plan was to take the MCAT next year, apply for those SMP's and hopefully get in. Then I can complete it with high grades. What are the chances I can complete the SMP and start medical school that same year at the school I did the SMP at? So I would finish SMP in 2018 and start med school that same year in 2018 at my SMP school. My EC's are in order (volunteering, shadowing, research, leadership activities) so low are the chances if I try doing things this way?

I know SMP's rarely take their students and place them in the med school class that same summer. But does it still happen? Does my gpa kill me for a chance like that? Thanks.

At my school, we interview the SMP students in May, so that we know they have done well in a year's worth of med-school classes.

Hence, it can be done, IF you have MCAT out of the way.

Under NO circumstances take the MCAT while you are in the SMP! Recipe for disaster.

As you have pointed out, some med schools have a limit on how many of their SMP students they take.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

@Goro

Welcome back!

 

[Amelia09]

At my school, we interview the SMP students in May, so that we know they have done well in a year's worth of med-school classes.

Hence, it can be done, IF you have MCAT out of the way.

Under NO circumstances take the MCAT while you are in the SMP! Recipe for disaster.

As you have pointed out, some med schools have a limit on how many of their SMP students they take.

Thanks for responding. I thought most/all medical schools interview their SMP students over the summer...if you saw my uGPA, would you accept me into your school without taking another gap year? ASSUMING I got a 4.0 in my SMP and ASSUMING I score high enough (maybe 520+) on the MCAT. You don't have to answer if you don't want to, I am trying to see where I stand and what decision to make. Thanks.

 

[Goro]

@Goro

Welcome back!

SDN: 1
Goro: 0.5
Trolls: 0

 

[Goro]

Thanks for responding. I thought most/all medical schools interview their SMP students over the summer...if you saw my uGPA, would you accept me into your school without taking another gap year? ASSUMING I got a 4.0 in my SMP and ASSUMING I score high enough (maybe 520+) on the MCAT. You don't have to answer if you don't want to, I am trying to see where I stand and what decision to make. Thanks.

You're be auto-reject at my med school, and tons of others. frankly, you have to show that you can handle med school. Hence the need for the SMP.

Our SMP would take you.

 

[Amelia09]

You're be auto-reject at my med school, and tons of others. frankly, you have to show that you can handle med school. Hence the need for the SMP.

Our SMP would take you.

Wait, so you're saying even with a 4.0 SMP and high MCAT I would still be rejected for starting that same summer?

 

[Goro]

Wait, so you're saying even with a 4.0 SMP and high MCAT I would still be rejected for starting that same summer?

I'm trying to say this in the nicest possible way, but when you take the MCAT, take extra care with the CARS section.

As of right now, you would be rejected from my school and tons of other DO schools, and 100% from MD schools
IF you do as well as your hypothetical, AND you were a student in my SMP, then yes, you be accepted for Fall 201x if you interviewed in May.
For all other med schools, by the time you finish the SMP, the app season is over for the fall semester. Thus, you would have to enter another cycle, unless you interviewed in Sping of your 2nd semester of the SMP. This would assume that med schools would take you on the basis of a single SMP semester for which they have grades. I've seen it happen with a handful of people in my SMP.

Capeesh?

 

[Goro]

Thanks for responding. I thought most/all medical schools interview their SMP students over the summer...if you saw my uGPA, would you accept me into your school without taking another gap year?

I've not heard of this. During the summer, a lot of Faculty are away...ditto admissions staff.

 

[SoppyElk]

Usually SMPs want to see your year's worth of grades before deciding whether or not they want to interview you, so it's better to wait a year. Take it one step at a time. First kill your SMP, then kill your MCAT, and after that see where you're at. Also never assume a 4.0 or a 520+ on the MCAT. Usually one or both of those things don't happen.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

Don't they issue II later in the cycle like May for someone at their school's SMP? That's what I read on SDN. I know it's uncommon for people to start med school that same summer, but it still happens. I'm just trying to figure out how, and who those seats are given to.

Are you asking about MD schools? Where are you seeing this?

Others who know more about the traffic rules for MD schools can say more about this. I thought that there was a mid-April deadline for issuing IIs, and that would be before 2nd semester grades would be known.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

ASSUMING I score high enough (maybe 520+)

No one should be assuming a 520, in any hypothetical scenario.
You're trying to rush a process that is not kind to those who rush it and it is not going to work out well for you

 

[Amelia09]

Usually SMPs want to see your year's worth of grades before deciding whether or not they want to interview you, so it's better to wait a year. Take it one step at a time. First kill your SMP, then kill your MCAT, and after that see where you're at. Also never assume a 4.0 or a 520+ on the MCAT. Usually one or both of those things don't happen.

That makes sense, I am just trying to see the best case scenario.

 

[Amelia09]

No one should be assuming a 520, in any hypothetical scenario.
You're trying to rush a process that is not kind to those who rush it and it is not going to work out well for you

Yeah, that's true I shouldn't assume anything. My track record doesn't show that I am going to get a 4.0 SMP and 520+ MCAT. I am just seeing the best case scenario.

 

[Amelia09]

Are you asking about MD schools? Where are you seeing this?

Others who know more about the traffic rules for MD schools can say more about this. I thought that there was a mid-April deadline for issuing IIs, and that would be before 2nd semester grades would be known.

I'm not sure of the deadline for II, it's just something I read online. Thanks for the input.

 

[Amelia09]

I'm trying to say this in the nicest possible way, but when you take the MCAT, take extra care with the CARS section.

As of right now, you would be rejected from my school and tons of other DO schools, and 100% from MD schools
IF you do as well as your hypothetical, AND you were a student in my SMP, then yes, you be accepted for Fall 201x if you interviewed in May.
For all other med schools, by the time you finish the SMP, the app season is over for the fall semester. Thus, you would have to enter another cycle, unless you interviewed in Sping of your 2nd semester of the SMP. This would assume that med schools would take you on the basis of a single SMP semester for which they have grades. I've seen it happen with a handful of people in my SMP.

Capeesh?

So I would have to take the chance and see if it would even land me an interview to begin with, and also do well in the interview. Thanks for having the patience to answer my questions.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

So I would finish SMP in 2018 and start med school that same year in 2018 at my SMP school.

You're not even in a SMP yet, so how could you possibly start med school in 2018??? That would be less than a year from now.

When do you think you'd be doing this SMP....starting in WHAT month and year? And completing the SMP in WHAT month and year???

 

[Goro]

So I would have to take the chance and see if it would even land me an interview to begin with, and also do well in the interview. Thanks for having the patience to answer my questions.

Very few programs have automatic admission after successful completion of the special master's program. Many programs offer an automatic interview. But that interview is in the spring prior to the fall at Mission

 

[Amelia09]

You're not even in a SMP yet, so how could you possibly start med school in 2018??? That would be less than a year from now.

When do you think you'd be doing this SMP....starting in WHAT month and year? And completing the SMP in WHAT month and year???

Sorry I meant 2019

 

[Isoval]

Very few programs have automatic admission after successful completion of the special master's program. Many programs offer an automatic interview. But that interview is in the spring prior to the fall at Mission

Hey, you’re back!

 

[tekkenman11]

Part of applying to medical school is reducing risk
applying first time has zero risk as a reapplicant
applying second time has a risk greater than zero

I agree.

 

[Goro]

Hey, you’re back!

 

[SoppyElk]

Also, why do a SMP? Why not do a formal postbac or a diy-postbac instead? It's probably a better idea in your case. SMPs are hard aren't a sure thing. If you don't do well you're pretty much done. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

You're be auto-reject at my med school, and tons of others. frankly, you have to show that you can handle med school. Hence the need for the SMP.

Our SMP would take you.

First of all, glad to see your posts again.

Anyways; Considering the fact the GPA of the average matriculant at D.O is pretty much almost at the same number as M.D, do you think in the next decade the MCAT will go there too?

 

[Dr.Sticks]

Also, why do a SMP? Why not do a formal postbac or a diy-postbac instead? It's probably a better idea in your case. SMPs are hard aren't a sure thing. If you don't do well you're pretty much done. Just something to keep in mind.

Doing some math
2 semesters worth of straight A's could get OP a 3.0
A 2nd bachelors degree with a minor(140 credits) could get op a 3.40

 

[Goro]

First of all, glad to see your posts again.

Anyways; Considering the fact the GPA of the average matriculant at D.O is pretty much almost at the same number as M.D, do you think in the next decade the MCAT will go there too?

From what I've seen, median DO GPAs are about 3.5, while MD is 3.7. While there I S decent overlap among some DO and MD schools, I predict DO will still lag behind MD for MCAT.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

A 2nd bachelors degree with a minor(140 credits) could get op a 3.40

A second bachelors would be very expensive, and more so if 140 credits. There isn't FA besides loans for a second bachelors. Combine that with med school debt and any debt already incurred with first bachelors could mean massive debt in the end.
A SMP with a 4.0 would probably be more efficient.

 

[Dr.Sticks]

A second bachelors would be very expensive, and more so if 140 credits. There isn't FA besides loans for a second bachelors. Combine that with med school debt and any debt already incurred with first bachelors could mean massive debt in the end.
A SMP with a 4.0 would probably be more efficient.

It wouldn't be expensive
Just time consuming
A year vs 2 years as a dedicated 3 semester student taking 20 credits at a time
Would cost 52k(subtract 6k for just 120 credits) in total for 140 at an instate in my state

An SMP is what, like 60k?

 

[Dr.Sticks]

A second bachelors would be very expensive, and more so if 140 credits. There isn't FA besides loans for a second bachelors. Combine that with med school debt and any debt already incurred with first bachelors could mean massive debt in the end.
A SMP with a 4.0 would probably be more efficient.

Oh
And check this legendary guy out
Holy only
60 credits in a quarter
Smart Set - UCLA Magazine
Plus he maintained a GPA above 3.5, never took a courseload less than 20, and worked in his acting career while at it.

Guy is legendary

If I had the balls to pull what he did I could be legendary too, I just fear for my GPA too much.
Neck, I don't even know if I would make it alive at 60

20 is doable though

 

[PreMedMissteps]

A year vs 2 years as a dedicated 3 semester student taking 20 credits at a time

First of all, it would not be advisable for someone who needs a serious cum and BCPM GPA repair to take 20 credits per semester, of which a good number would need to be BCPM.

And 2 years with 3 semesters each year with 20 credits each semester? It would be nearly impossible to do well trying to cram meaningful 20 credits in each 3rd semester (since it sounds like this would be summer sessions)

 

[Melchizedek]

You mentioned EVMS. Other programs include Temple's BCMS/ACMS that has direct guaranteed linkage, Drexel's (already getting ready for the hate storm on this one) IMS/MMS/DPMS (IMS is 1 year of med school classes with an interview if you maintain a high GPA, MMS is a 2 year program with the same + research in your second year, DPMS is direct guaranteed linkage after 1 year of medical school classes if you maintain a high GPA).

These are all programs with linkage/interviews to their own medical school provided you score above a cutoff for the MCAT and do well in their programs.
(This next part is the part that isn't quite readily available)

In addition to their own medical schools, most SMP's have interview agreements with other medical schools.
Examples:
The Drexel programs have interview agreements with
Robert Wood Johnson (Rutgers MD), VCOM (DO), PCOM (DO), LECOM (DO).
JHU's postbac/SMP interview agreement schools are:
Boston U, Brown, GWU, Hofstra, Robert Wood Johnson, UPenn, U Michigan, etc.

These ARE NOT GUARANTEED INTERVIEWS. You have to come in with a high MCAT score and maintain a high GPA in the program to get an interview and even then you may or may not get accepted. These programs are high-risk high-reward. If you do not do well in an SMP a medical school has absolutely no reason to think you'd do well in their curriculum. So, pretty much do-or-die.

For your situation specifically, if you started one of these programs in fall 2018, have a high MCAT, keep a good GPA in the fall, get to know the professors the school will review your file and call you in for an interview in the spring of 2019. Ace the interview, continue to do well in classes that spring, and you'd be going to medical school the fall of 2019. There's no way to start and SMP in 2018 and be going to medical school in 2018.

DO NOT SUBMIT THE AMCAS IN 2018. If you choose not to go to the medical school that you went to the SMP at, then in 2019 you'll have a fresh set of grades you can point to and say "Look I can handle medical school" for medical schools to consider giving you a seat. (V.s. right now when you don't have anything of the sorts)

Questions you have to ask yourself:
Why did I get a 2.7?
Can I get a high enough MCAT (at the minimum 80th percentiles or higher) to have a shot at those guaranteed interviews?
Am I willing to risk tanking my medical school career for just a shot at an interview?
Can I spend $50,000 or more to do this?

I'm trying to say this in the nicest possible way, but when you take the MCAT, take extra care with the CARS section.

You have to love that Goro wit haha.

 

[ciestar]

You mentioned EVMS. Other programs include Temple's BCMS/ACMS that has direct guaranteed linkage, Drexel's (already getting ready for the hate storm on this one) IMS/MMS/DPMS (IMS is 1 year of med school classes with an interview if you maintain a high GPA, MMS is a 2 year program with the same + research in your second year, DPMS is direct guaranteed linkage after 1 year of medical school classes if you maintain a high GPA).

These are all programs with linkage/interviews to their own medical school provided you score above a cutoff for the MCAT and do well in their programs.
(This next part is the part that isn't quite readily available)

In addition to their own medical schools, most SMP's have interview agreements with other medical schools.
Examples:
The Drexel programs have interview agreements with
Robert Wood Johnson (Rutgers MD), VCOM (DO), PCOM (DO), LECOM (DO).
JHU's postbac/SMP interview agreement schools are:
Boston U, Brown, GWU, Hofstra, Robert Wood Johnson, UPenn, U Michigan, etc.

These ARE NOT GUARANTEED INTERVIEWS. You have to come in with a high MCAT score and maintain a high GPA in the program to get an interview and even then you may or may not get accepted. These programs are high-risk high-reward. If you do not do well in an SMP a medical school has absolutely no reason to think you'd do well in their curriculum. So, pretty much do-or-die.

For your situation specifically, if you started one of these programs in fall 2018, have a high MCAT, keep a good GPA in the fall, get to know the professors the school will review your file and call you in for an interview in the spring of 2019. Ace the interview, continue to do well in classes that spring, and you'd be going to medical school the fall of 2019. There's no way to start and SMP in 2018 and be going to medical school in 2018.

DO NOT SUBMIT THE AMCAS IN 2018. If you choose not to go to the medical school that you went to the SMP at, then in 2019 you'll have a fresh set of grades you can point to and say "Look I can handle medical school" for medical schools to consider giving you a seat. (V.s. right now when you don't have anything of the sorts)

Questions you have to ask yourself:
Why did I get a 2.7?
Can I get a high enough MCAT (at the minimum 80th percentiles or higher) to have a shot at those guaranteed interviews?
Am I willing to risk tanking my medical school career for just a shot at an interview?
Can I spend $50,000 or more to do this?








You have to love that Goro wit haha.

A decent number of my classmates completed those programs prior to matriculating. (Drexel)

 

[Melchizedek]

A decent number of my classmates completed those programs prior to matriculating. (Drexel)

Not at all knocking these programs, I'm a current IMS student myself. But for some reason Drexel gets a lot of flak on this site

 

[ciestar]

Not at all knocking these programs, I'm a current IMS student myself. But for some reason Drexel gets a lot of flak on this site

They really do. It actually upsets me. As an MS2, it makes me think people look down on my education.