Starting the whole process...

[3ip4]

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Most of the posts I saw of similar veins were somewhat older, and I do apologize if this is being rehashed.

I'm also not asking so I can jump in blindly; I am asking so that I can understand the steps I need to take to both see whether this is the right move and to position myself correctly in 1-3 years. Also, sorry if the obfuscation of any stats slightly is aggravating, and I run off the general anonymity in other forums of similar nature. I really appreciate any and all help - truly.

1) For one with what I assume is a somewhat a non-transferrable skillset to anything medical related (real estate finance, some real programming skills but an absolute beast with excel), what type of volunteering (and possibly job if I decide it is the right move and is possible) would be best to pursue both for exposure to what it would be like to be a MD (broad, I know) and acceptance to post bacc programs (perhaps, it is worth to consider how relative experience would look to a med school at a later date as well)?

2) Would something like a Goucher, if admitted, make the most sense? What would be the alternatives? I live on Long Island if that is a consideration as to where I can get credits in science coursework from a reputable school. The schools that are possible (and varying degrees of a pain to get to) include, off the top of my head, Hofstra, LIU, NYIT, and Stony Brook. I lean towards programs like Goucher for the career counseling and more hands on direction. I looked into law schools (more on this in the 'my background') and found that not having actual guidance is a great hindrance that I would not want to endure to medical schools which seems to be a much more arduous undertaking for applying than law school.

My background:

Me:

UG GPA:
3.4x BS from Ivy in business, strong upward trending GPA ending in a 3.7-3.8 senior year while taking 7 and 8 real classes (actual course load was 8 and 9 respectively)
Minor GPAs: 3.5x and 3.6x
x=1, 2, or 3

Science GPA: N/A [I have to look into this, but I don't believe my statistics or finance classes count towards a science GPA... at least my statistics and finance classes are not listed on the university website for counting towards it...]

Standardized Test Scores: (just listing in case it matters for post bacc applications at all)
LSAT low 170s
SAT (took twice, only remember highest sections off the top of my head): V>760 // 700>M>730
SSAT Chem>700 (don't recall score)
AP Physics = 5
AP Biology = 4
(I get those are super old...just establishing that I have some baseline aptitude for science)
-note here: would it make sense to take the GRE, or would the SAT and LSAT show competitiveness for post baccs if that is the route that makes most sense.

I definitely have been undergoing a little bit of a late 20s crisis to a certain extent, and I know that would be a horrible reason to jump head first into pre-med and medical school (or law school, more on that below). That said, I do want a change from what I do now (real estate) to something more meaningful (cringeworthily generic, I know.)

On that front, I immediately jumped towards law school, took the LSAT, and submitted some applications during this period of inner thought as it seemed like a change where my past experience wouldn't be totally irrelevant. I scored well (17x) and am currently hearing back. Currently, I received some acceptances to some top 14 programs, and, as of today, received a somewhat sizable scholarship to a T20 school. That said, I haven't actually felt excited by any of this, and I find it a bit alarming.

Long story short on this front, I understand that I sound very indecisive right now, and, to a large extent, I am. I've always been interested in science, and I enjoy helping people. I'm really sketpical that law school is the right move, and I will likely seek deferral. In the meantime, I would like to try to expose myself to medicine to see if it lights me up.

Again, sorry for the length, and I appreciate any and all help.

 

[AnotherLawyer]

For someone like you (good GPA, good standardized test taker), I recommend one of the top formal post-bac at if you can manage it financially. If not one of the top ~3, then don't bother. Just do a DYI program. No one will question your academic prowess with your background if you do well on the MCAT (which I believe you can based on your LSAT). Finally, DO NOT go to law school unless you intend to practice law for 5+ years.

 

[3ip4]

I appreciate that advice. Out of curiosity, what are the roughly 3 best formal post bacc programs? (I tend to think this would be best for me, as I thrive in group and demanding environments.)

Off of my precursory research, it would seem to be Goucher, Bryn Mawr, Scripps, and Johns Hopkins?

The other item I would be curious to is what type of volunteer experience would be both attractive to these programs and give me real exposure to the medical field? I would also be open to trying a job out, but I'm unsure if I would qualify for many jobs that expose me to daily life in medicine.

My only other question would be (if you've taken both) is the MCAT typically more or less time-constrained than the LSAT? (I'm not doubting the MCAT is harder due to the knowledge required, but I'm wondering if it's as tight timewise as the LSAT typically is... mainly asking since I performed extremely well but nerves still got me on the LSAT (i.e. several points below PT averages))

 

[AnotherLawyer]

I appreciate that advice. Out of curiosity, what are the roughly 3 best formal post bacc programs? (I tend to think this would be best for me, as I thrive in group and demanding environments.)

Off of my precursory research, it would seem to be Goucher, Bryn Mawr, Scripps, and Johns Hopkins?

The other item I would be curious to is what type of volunteer experience would be both attractive to these programs and give me real exposure to the medical field? I would also be open to trying a job out, but I'm unsure if I would qualify for many jobs that expose me to daily life in medicine.

My only other question would be (if you've taken both) is the MCAT typically more or less time-constrained than the LSAT? (I'm not doubting the MCAT is harder due to the knowledge required, but I'm wondering if it's as tight timewise as the LSAT typically is... mainly asking since I performed extremely well but nerves still got me on the LSAT (i.e. several points below PT averages))

The last time I looked into formal post-bacs was over 5 years ago, so verify for yourself, but the three I identified as giving the best shot at matriculation to medical school were Scripts, Goucher, and Bryn Mawr. I don't recall Hopkins being on my list at the time but that doesn't mean it's not top tier. I could have just overlooked it.

For clinical exposure, the easiest thing you can do is volunteer in a hospital or hospice. If you want to do paid work, be warned that most options seem to be very low paid. If that's not a problem, scribing seems to be the most popular option.

For me the LSAT was more time constrained. Every section was down to the wire. On the MCAT, I would typically finish two sections with 10+ minutes to spare and the others with ~5. Realize that n=1, but I scored within a few tenths of a percentile on both (174/523). I believe that if you're capable of a 170+ your MCAT perfeormance will not be limited by reasoning ability, but by content knowledge. That's a good situation to be in since learning content is easier, in my opinion, than improving critical reading and reasoning. Actually, make it n=2. I know someone else with a 174 who got a 39.

 

[3ip4]

AnotherLawyer,

Thank you - I greatly appreciate all the information, and that is certainly encouraging. I'm asking the current applicants thread for some information as well. I've had the problem of information being relatively sporadic or on the more dated side.

The only other thing I would ask is whether the matching process for residencies is hampered by a non-medicine career prior (given that I wouldn't be that much older 33-34 than the average of what I assume is 28-30) in the event one did find a passion for something like surgery.

 

[Ad2b]

I agree with @AnotherLawyer - I took the LSAT and got a 165 or something on it. Felt absolutely stretched for time and think of the MCAT, LSAT, GMAT, GRE, the LSAT is the hardest one of them all.

All. Those. Word(s). Games! Oh, the logic games 🙁 and diagramming on the fly... but the MCAT? Yes, it is very dense and covers a vast amount of material but because you've demonstrated you can already critically "think" rather than barf out factoids, you'll do well. The new MCAT is a thinking test, not a regurgitation exam.

Find a couple of docs to shadow - since you're on the Island, maybe Hofstra can help you find some that are willing to let pre-premeds visit. That might help you decide more than any test or class.

 

[3ip4]

Thank you for the words Ad2b!

Will do. I also had fairly extensive jaw surgery somewhat recently, so I can possibly talk to the DDS who performed my surgery to see if I can shadow him and if he knows of anyone else I can shadow.

It's definitely a relief to hear that again about the timing aspect of the test. The time pressures while actually taking the test caused me to underperform my PT averages by 3-4 points despite performing extremely well. You should check out some of the new games! They started to add games that aren't one of the standard categories. The most recent December had a really fourth weird game. (I finished it in three-five minutes, but I was really fortunate to just see the underlying logic/math of it.)

 

[Ad2b]

Just know that a DDS doesn't really count for medical school, it would for dental though!

That LSAT... but that was before I was diagnosed with pretty significant ADHD and put on medication to help cope. I looked at my first logic game and thought, "WTH am I seeing?!?!?!" I think Suzi had to sit next to Andy on Mondays but not playing the flute on Tues and because Stacy was a flutist she had to play on Tue but not Wed and could never sit next to Jane. Peter liked to play tuba on Sundays but not Mon or Weds and never with Suzi who played trombone on Saturdays and Weds.

Who plays the harp? 😵

MCAT is more like:

Y123N was investigated for the CAT b to Bat S which interconnected with amyltryptidase at 45 degrees C for 12 hours during which N235T hair pinned. Using ... and then insert a lot of random factoids, garbage, stuff no premed will really understand or know... plus this graph...

And will ask, for which day of the week is the CatB + CatL most unlikely to least affect the catalysis of water?

Two answers will be something like: dog Mondays, cat Saturdays
One answer will sound right
One answer will be right...

The job on the MCAT is to think 🙂

 

[3ip4]

Yeah - that's understandable. The most recent one had this really nasty building swapping game. In the end, you just had to set Class A = +4, Class B = +2, Class C = +1 and see what answers tallied to six or not depending on whether it was a positive or negative response you were looking for.

Understood! I figured a maxillofacial surgeon may provide a decent exposure to both dentistry and medicine, as, while not strictly medicine, I imagine there is some quasi-overlap between maxillofacial surgery, orthopedic surgery, and surgery in general. There are two MD/DMDs at the office I believe.

Hopefully, what you posted should read largely as gibberish to me at this point haha.

 

[Ad2b]

Hopefully, what you posted should read largely as gibberish to me at this point haha.

It would be to almost everyone who has not prepped for the MCAT. You learn as you prep to weed out misc. garbage that is meant to slow you down. They call it triaging, kind of like in medicine: what's important, what's not.

I've gotten largely to the point where I don't really bother reading the blahblabhalbhalbh I go right to the tables, graphs, etc., see if I can figure it out there, then see the question and answer it. Once you have the pre-reqs under your belt and the test prep, you'll do fine. My cousin is an adcom and told me, "Ad2b, it's just reading test! Get over it... just think, you'll be fine."

 

[3ip4]

Awesome - sounds good. Going to look into this stuff tomorrow and Monday. For now, I work on my LSAT test prep website and doing some review of basic math, bio, chem, and physics just to sort of gauge my interest in these subjects.