Stay away from optometry

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skra7 said:
Good points, as long as your patients respect and value your care that’s all that matters at the end of the day. What I intended to say was that society as a whole doesn’t always see it that way and that’s the reality. Some people do some people don’t. That’s been my experience at least. The money definitely is better than majority of jobs in the country and will provide you a comfortable living. But in my opinion if someone is going into it JUST for the money and doctor title, they should look into medicine or dentistry.
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I agree that those whose only goal is to make as much money as possible would do well to avoid the healthcare field. However, money is an important aspect of any career decision. The real point I wanted to make about money is to refute comments I've read in the past such as "I don't care about the money because I love every aspect of Optometry and it's my passion." While passion and interest are good, that's a terrible attitude. I would not have pursued this career if I didn't think it would provide a comfortable situation for my family. On the other side of the spectrum, "Optometry sucks because Dentists make more" is equally idiotic. I could never do what Dentists do all day, ergo I am not a Dentist. Many feel that way about Optometry as well, and see it as boring and repetitive. That's fine.

I really think the perceived "doctor title" problem surfaces when there is perceived inferiority in the mind of someone who wants to feel as though they are as prestigious and important as the most accomplished surgeon. If your level of self respect or perceived respect from others (which can certainly affect the former) is based on time spent in school, or ability to perform surgery, then you will probably feel empty in this profession. If you take pride in your abilities, and the affect you can have on someone's life then it's a good road. I'm only one person in one part of the country, and I'm aware there must be external reasons to feel inferior to other professionals. Doctors of all kind are human beings and some are unpleasant. In the political world I think this matters more. Luckily, in clinical practice the chances are more in favor of having positive interprofessional relationships. Most of the put-downs toward other professions I've seen here come slinging from the mouths of pre-meds, pre-opts, pre-dents, etc. and the imaginary hierarchy gets amplified by those who want to reaffirm that they are on the path to self-fulfillment.

Sorry that was long winded, and thanks for clarifying your comments, I hope you don't feel like I'm attacking you in any way. Good luck in your studies.
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treytrey said:
It's easy for you, presumably a woman who has no understanding of the real world to talk about pursuing passions, especially when your mommy/daddy most likely are paying your way through only for it to result in you having a dead end part time job OR, because of nepotism/connections working with your mommy/daddy or their friends.

There is no reason at all to go into optometry nowadays. You accrue a debt of 200k+, go through the same amount of schooling as pharmacists and dentists only to get paid way less and have way less job safety/guarantee.

It's people like yourself who are spoiled and very indifferent to the status/state of optometrists that lead to the situation most new od's are in. Congratulations on being part of the problem, congratulations on being a benign parasite on the profession, idly sitting by as the majority of us bleed out slowly. Real life isn't all dreams and passion, you'll realize that one day when reality hits you.

EDIT: good god you're a highschool student, out of the goodness of my heart, all I can tell you is stay away, take your time to do your research and decide carefully, take a look at all the hundreds of posts of people on this forum telling you to stay away from this trashcan tier career (I didn't listen to them all those years ago).

If you want a good career in healthcare that pays well, go for pharmacy/dentistry or hell even a masters in public health or epidemiology, optometry is a near sunken ship. If you have the aptitude for optometry, you might as well apply yourself a little harder and go to medical school which has a MUCH greater payout. As a family physician you'll make more than an optometrist just working 3 days a week. You'll earn more than optometrists working 6 days a week for long hours for commercial chains as a general practitioner/family physician working 3-4 days a week for 6 hours a day. Let that sink in.


Can't accept a job that doesn't exist. In todays oversaturated markets, a 100k+ job as an optometrist is virtually non existent, you're lying to yourself and everybody on this website, very unethical of you.
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The fact you think in spoiled and my parents pay for my stuff shows what type of person u are. Quick to judge over a text lol never met me in real life
 
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Whoever posted this obviously is a pessimistic person. All the students who are graduating in 2019 are making average 120K+ and there are potential to make more. Optometry is not dead and be proud of being an Optometrist. If you don't like it then move on to something else and stop trolling.
 
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generallyspeaking said:
That's rough, and I lament your challenges.

I totally understand your financial situation and the job market pressures, as well as the less than desirable working conditions of working corporate optometry.

I've only worked at one corporate job that I absolutely hated (I quit out of the blue with no job lined up because I was so pissed off, not to mention it was operating illegally and I got subpoenaed by the DCA), and I fortunately secured a super awesome f/t hospital gig that pays a whopping 70% more while seeing 30% less patients per day.

Working retail and in corporate settings is always terrible. I've never worked in private practice or got any job offers, so I don't know what working conditions are like there.

I'm incredibly happy, lucky, AND GRATEFUL for having my current job, and I can't imagine what I'd be doing if I wasn't selected for the job. I was burnt out from just one year in corporation, and the job boards in California have postings very far and few between.

FYI if you see vision precision holdings, run the f*** away.
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Did you complete a residency ?
 
jadedphysiotherapist said:
Most dentists are starting out at 90k dude. You have to be strategic in your market, competition, and the population around you. There are therapists making 110k starting with 80k debt next to the private school dentist making 90k with 400k debts. It's all supply and demand, reimbursement fluctuations, marketing, surrounding population, and Bls and hrsa predictions.

If you think you're a pretty fairy entitled to six figures due to six figs debt then you're an idiot who doesn't understand healthcare payment and loans as well as sacrifice. Wait it out til your market gets better and compete if possible or stop being a special little ****ing snowflake. Yes it ****ing sucks with loans and bankruptcy not currently being an option (will change...guaranteed....) and ways to manage better should be more manageable but Jesus, grow a pair and learn what you're getting into and trying to make a living off of based on what populations want.

This isn't the baby boom generation......you don't get extra compensation due to higher education only. Attack need, demand, and capitalism. That's how you make money and survive.
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Not true about 90K (one of my teachers at my school makes that 2 days a week).....try $150k.... no residency, 4 years. In my area we start off $160-$170k. Optometry is a good gig if you work in a needed area much like anything else.
 
P7898 said:
Not true about 90K (one of my teachers at my school makes that 2 days a week).....try $150k.... no residency, 4 years. In my area we start off $160-$170k. Optometry is a good gig if you work in a needed area much like anything else.
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Which area?
 
P7898 said:
Rural parts of SC. Just look at indeed.com for dentist jobs
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*scratches head* why look at dentist jobs if you're looking for optometrist jobs?
 
So how are folks feeling about this topic these days?
 
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This is the thread that is (in part) making me question my interest to pursue optometry! I know it’s not wise to put much wait on random people on the internet, but it is still concerning. I live in a highly populated area and have spoken with quite a few optometrists in my area and nearly all of them seem to love their career. However, I am not sure if this is a kind of survivor bias. Since I am only speaking with those who were able to get a job in a highly desirable area, I wonder if I am I missing out on half the story?
 
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I think you have to be willing to accept that it may take time to get to a satisfactory work situation. At the outset you may have to accept jobs that aren't your ideal or jobs you wouldn't consider doing long term. This could mean jobs that are far, jobs that don't pay well, practice modalities that aren't your ideal, etc. Eventually as time goes on, you should be able to find better opportunities and let go of the worse ones.
 
Optogal said:
Why do you ask?

In any case, this forum doesn't get much traffic unless there are controversial topics going on.
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Optometry is great.. every profession has its down side. But optometry is a great profession and unlike many other medical professions there is sooooo much that you can do and switch to.. u can work with patients or work in industry etc.
 
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I'd imagine the whole "optometry not making 6 figures" thing has aged poorly. My practice pays its optometrists 6 figures.
 
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fitdoc123 said:
Optometry is great.. every profession has its down side. But optometry is a great profession and unlike many other medical professions there is sooooo much that you can do and switch to.. u can work with patients or work in industry etc.
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yeah exactly I hate how people bash each other just for choosing a path that they want in my opinion its their life and choice.
 
Dr.K124 said:
I'd imagine the whole "optometry not making 6 figures" thing has aged poorly. My practice pays its optometrists 6 figures.
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I think you would be hard pressed to find a full time OD making less than six figures who has been out of school for more than a few years.
 
jadedphysiotherapist said:
Most dentists are starting out at 90k dude.
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LOOOLL. Look I'm a fourth year dental student and so I know people around me starting to get jobs. I've never heard of anyone getting offered as low as 90k. One of my friends just got an offer right out of school for 170k. Lowest I've heard is 130k. Most around 150k. But one thing you have to understand is that doing dentistry is a grind, it's hard work. It may not seem like it.. But trust me, there's a reason why old dentists walk around with their backs hunched over and necks curved toward the ground.
 
My dentist had to quit because of carpal tunnel. He was I estimate late 40s.
 
Interesting looking at this thread because at one time I considered Optometry school but after I shadowed more and did more introspection into careers, I decided to pursue medicine. I was fortunate to get into med school and really enjoy it.

There were a lot of things I liked about Optometry, and if you can find a way to counterbalance the debt (like loan forgiveness or military for a few years), it seems like it could be a solid career.

I think my biggest negative was the practice environment in malls, strip malls, and superstores (Walmart,
Sears, Target). It just seemed really depressing and didn’t feel “medical” to me personally. Even many of the few remaining private practices where I lived were in strip malls. I know some Ophthalmologists hire Optometrists, but that seemed odd too as you become kind of relegated to a more mid level role, when you are fully trained health professionals. I just couldn’t picture myself going to work at the mall or Walmart on a Saturday as a health professional.

That is what drove me to looking more at medicine, but I thought the actual profession seemed pretty cool. All professions have good and bad, but Optometry seems pretty solid and is likely the direction I would have gone, had I not liked medicine.
 
I thank the good Lord that I get to practice optometry everyday.My family MD and local OMD have discussed with me careers in the profession for their children.
 
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You won't get rich doing this but it isn't a bad gig if you're basically established.
 
Given what's going on in the pharm forum, thought I'd revive this.

Looks like there's 21 schools in the US now. My understanding is that 22 and 23 are accounted for?

What's with Dr Stan Woo being director of both U Waterloo AND SCCO?
www.forac-faroc.ca

List of ACOE Accredited Optometry Programs - FORAC - FAROC

FORAC is a federation of the optometric regulatory and licensing bodies in Canada dedicated to facilitating discussion, exchanging information, providing a national voice and communicating with others about legislation, registration, standards of practice, continuing competence and any other...
www.forac-faroc.ca www.forac-faroc.ca
 
SnozzBerry said:
Agree with OP. $90k is laughable as a dentist working 4 or more days a week. Where do you even get that figure ?
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Dentists usually won't start out at anything less than 120k (unless in a super saturated city area). However, if you are putting everything on loans, it is anywhere from 300k to 500k of debt, so pros and cons. As an established associate 5 years out you should make 160k to 200k. Practice owners average around 300k to 400k. Very doable to earn 600k+ if you are business minded and have demand (rural). Avg dentist works 3.5 days a week. However, it is back breaking work sometimes and I think we have more patient trust issues than any type of doc.
Source: worked with 5 dentists as an assistant and as a lab tech. About to start dental school.
Thought it would be cool to read up on optometry since I didn't know much about it
 
OD 1993 said:
Optometry is a wonderful profession helping people with their most precious sense, vision. It's a great gig in my opinion. You can work in different modes of practice be it private, clinic, hospital or retail /corporate and you can be happy and satisfied. You make a decent living (if you are student debt free) and live okay. However, from someone who has been out almost 29 years, I can assure you, this is a profession that will not make you rich financially. Many will not tell you this but I am. This isn't medicine where your potential of making the sky is the limit applies.
My 2 cents.
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Your comment is very interesting for someone who has been practicing as long as you have. What is the earning cap for optometrists, in your opinion? There are many ODs who make quite a bit more than a hospital would pay a family doctor. Private practice optometry can be incredibly lucrative in the proper setting.
 
OD 1993 said:
Snakedoctor, income to debt ratio for graduating optometrists the last few years is not something to overlook. The tuition OD schools charge especially the private ones, in my opinion does not justify the ROI. I'm not in academia being admissions or the President of the school to sugar coat things. I'm real. Back when I got out almost 29 years ago, you made good money and you still can if you are debt free. My point is, this profession does not allow you to retire comfortably in the long run. Think about what I said. MD's are more marketable than will ever be. Yes, you can make a great living as an OD. Wine and dine at your favorite restaurants, take your family for an extended vacation anywhere in the world, pay your bills, mortgage etc within your limits. However, this is not a profession generally speaking for the majority of us, to take us to the next level financially. Believe me, what I'm telling you.
Sure you can make money in private practice especially by doing medical and billing (OCT's, fundus photos, VF's, pachymetry, diagnosing, treating and managing ocular disease). Same goes working with OMD's- you get paid more a lot more in their practice especially if the OMD's believe in you and you have a good relationship with them However, my point is you don't become wealthy -financially above and beyond.
Earning cap varies across the board significantly as to mode of practice and the state you are practicing in.
Hey, it's a great profession and I love and enjoy what I do. Let's be real- there's no money in it for the amount of grueling years we studied and what we went thru.

I'm sorry if you feel different.
I'm just being REAL.
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Can you expand on those statements? What, in your mind does it mean to "retire comfortably?" What, in your mind does it mean to "go to the next level financially?"
 
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KHE said:
Can you expand on those statements? What, in your mind does it mean to "retire comfortably?" What, in your mind does it mean to "go to the next level financially?"
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K, I deleted my previous two statements above because I do not want to stir any controversy among us due to how I see our profession and the benefits it brings or lack of per retirement
It's best I no longer express my opinions.
 
OD 1993 said:
K, I deleted my previous two statements above because I do not want to stir any controversy among us due to how I see our profession and the benefits it brings or lack of per retirement
It's best I no longer express my opinions.
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No one has attacked you, and it was not necessary to delete your comments. You're bringing your opinion to the table as someone who has practiced for many years, and we are asking you to expound. As a fellow practicing optometrist I have a different opinion. What you stated correctly is that debt to income ratio is not to be overlooked, and I couldn't agree more. That is typically my number one caution for those interested in the profession today. Your broader comments regarding comfortable retirement and reaching the "next level" are what has piqued our interest, and I believe that's because quite a few of us here are doing very well, and are simply wondering what you meant by those statements.
 
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OD 1993 said:
"Quite a few of us here are doing very well...........................statements"
Doing very well is all relevant. I'm doing very well too. I can go on 3 vacations a year with my family, dine at the nicest and most expensive restaurants in my city, pay my mortgage, bills, etc. Provide for my family. Live comfortably within my means.
Optometry gives you that lifestyle as long as you are debt free from student obligations-debt. Loans.
My point and perhaps you fail to understand is that this is NOT a profession that will make you wealthy. Rich financially speaking.
The majority of ODs have no pension, no benefits other than what they set themselves up early on or later in their career besides SS when they retire.
This isn't a profession where you make a significant amount of money gross and then net take home to lead you into investments- buying properties for passive income- commercial investments, and so forth. Something to have when you retire so you don't work and die in the exam room if you are lucky enough to live into your 70's 80' or 90's. In other words, for the amount of investment, time and studying we all put in, the return getting paid is not up to par if you consider rate of inflation and the purchasing power of the dollar. More lack of purchasing power.

My point is when you compare it to medicine, they are marketable than will ever be and many of them own buildings, properties, investmenst stocks, etc so when they retire they receive a staggering amount of income b/c their profession rewarded them in their golden years. Optometry does not give you that luxury. Please don't tell me practicing medical optometry- billing like OMDs can give you that. You'll make a considerable more amount as an OD but no where near what it takes to get you to the next level.

Optometry is a great profession. Wonderful profession. It's been good to me for almost 3 decades. However, it will never get you to the next level financially speaking of retiring early and having a big passive income later in life.
Hope you understand my point.
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I agree with the gist of your posts but I'm pretty sure not all MDs get to "the next level financially" either. I'm sure a far larger percentage of them do compared to ODs, but I don't think it's a slam dunk. ODs who do well I'm certain can overlap the pay of MDs who aren't doing as well.
 
Was cleaning out emails and saw alerts from this site so after 5 years, an update:

Ended up learning how to code throughout 2018 and 2019, got an interview at a company my friends work at and accepted a job offer of 120k base + 10k bonus + 25k stocks in late 2019.

Making nearly 200k now as an intermediate level software engineer in ontario. I do about 2-4 hours of actual work a day, all remote. Tech is truly the future.
 
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Besides the terrible debt to income ratio, how it is the job itself? If it wasn't the large student debt and relatively low income, would you do it?
 
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