Sticker Shock

[MaximusD]

AOA head honcho on medical student debt

No ****ing way you are going to PSU Med? I'm so jealous man congrats.

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[235750]

No ****ing way you are going to PSU Med? I'm so jealous man congrats.

It's a nice place to work, I'll give you that! Hershey's lovely, and a season pass to hershey park is pretty good too

Also, I remember you Maximus! You and I were waitlisted at Drexel years ago...or was it GW? Pretty sure it was Drexel. Nice to see you're doing OK

 

[Rollo]

Pain medicine can be quite lucrative, as many of the procedures are only performed by pain specialists (anesthesiology or PM&R docs --> pain fellowship), are very quick, and can be billed heavily to insurance.

http://www.painmed.org/

AAPM represents the diverse scope of the field through membership from a variety of origins, including such specialties as anesthesiology, internal medicine, neurology, neurological surgery, orthopedic surgery, physiatry, and psychiatry.

 

[DrMattOglesby]

No ****ing way you are going to PSU Med? I'm so jealous man congrats.

haha yeah man thanks!
wild ride...never thought i'd get into Penn State

 

[JanikeyDoc]

I have a DO FP doc in the family who makes about $250/yr in Las Vegas. Her best year was $350....about 4 years ago. She has been practicing for 20 years and works in a PPO only group.

My cousin is in private practice in Florida and averages between $400k to $500k a year net.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

http://www.painmed.org/

Okay...my main point was not that other clinicians can't provide pain treatment, but rather that many procedures are only done by a small sub-group of physicians. Here's the breakdown of diplomates represented by the American Board of Pain Medicine (http://www.association-office.com/abpm/etools/publicdir/search.cfm):

Anesthesia: 1391

EM: 7

FM: 35

Hematology: 1

IM: 83

Neuro: 128

Neurosurgery: 51

Ob/Gyn: 1

Occupational Medicine: 4

Oncology: 2

Orthopaedic surgery: 3

Pediatrics: 10

PM&R: 385

Psychiatry: 41

Radiology: 1

Rheumatology: 1

 

[beckhunter116]

My cousin is in private practice in Florida and averages between $400k to $500k a year net.

Everyone continues to mention the relative they know/friend of a parent/parent/ect that makes way above the average. I'm not going to say that it doesn't happen, the point is that for every average there may be some way above it (as you all mention) but some way below.

While this is a lot of debt to be considering, it is doable if you plan responsibly and/or look into loan pay-backs/military/any other option.

 

[Rollo]

Okay...my main point was not that other clinicians can't provide pain treatment, but rather that many procedures are only done by a small sub-group of physicians. Here's the breakdown of diplomates represented by the American Board of Pain Medicine (http://www.association-office.com/abpm/etools/publicdir/search.cfm):

Right...I just wanted to make sure that you weren't misinterpreted when you said "anesthesiology or PM&R > Pain".

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Right...I just wanted to make sure that you weren't misinterpreted when you said "anesthesiology or PM&R > Pain".

Nah, just lots of Gas/PM&R-only pain fellowships. Some gas-only ones, too. Here are the requirements for being board eligible by the American Board of Pain Medicine:

Source: http://www.abpm.org/downloads/2009certbulletin.pdf [page 4]

 

[Rollo]

Nah, just lots of Gas/PM&R-only pain fellowships. Some gas-only ones, too. Here are the requirements for being board eligible by the American Board of Pain Medicine:

Hmm, I wonder how different gas/pmr pain fellowships vs. neurology/psychiatry/neurosurg pain fellowships. I'm assuming that there would be a huge pay difference between them too. But as far as the clinical aspect, you'd expect a neuro pain fellow to be different than psych pain fellow.

Interesting stuff nonetheless. We'll figure it out when we start med school I suppose.

 

[MossPoh]

really.. it's a lot like buying a house.

you'll probably spend a good chunk of your days paying it off... if you want to be a pcp - do research regarding scholarships, or years of service repayment plans.

if you're savvy with money and the real estate market wasn't crap - i would recommend buying a house on a 15 yr loan. By the time you finish med school + residency +any other training, the house will be paid off. Then you can sell the house to pay off any remaining debt (so long as the market doesn't get worse).

Yea, but most people have no idea where they will end up after med school. You really can't predict what speciality will interest you much, where you may end up for some rotations, extraneous costs involved, etc. I personally think it is a horrible idea to buy a house during med school. It is not a given to sell your house for more or enough to make up for what you put in. Just remain mobile and untethered until you know what will happen with your life.

 

[FlaMedic]

Simply a cost of doing business I would think.

Despite all of the hooplah regarding excessive student loans, I can't remember the last time I saw a Doctor working part time at McDonalds to make ends meet. You will do fine.

There are a number of ways to deal with this. One FP guy I shadowed works 1 12 hour shift a month at an Urgent Care Clinic for 150$/hour. He says that's his loan payment right there. Although he also said it is an extra day he gets to be away from his wife and he would probably do it for nothing....

 

[liquid8r]

Although he also said it is an extra day he gets to be away from his wife and he would probably do it for nothing....

Awesome.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

A lot of that is based on region. Primary care docs in the city can make considerably less than those in less saturated areas.

Yes it all depends, but even big city docs can find a niche. I know one doctor who does immigration physicals and its a massive cash cow, that is one example. The Anesthesiologist I was talking about works in a suburb of a major American city. I think rural and small town doctors have more potential due to their regions being less saturated. Starting pay for IMs in one particular region of the South is around 250k a year out of residency, in most big cities its usually 150k a year after residency.

Purchasing power varies heavily across the USA as well, a salary of 150k in Sandusky Ohio has a lot more purchasing power than say Manhattan or San Francisco.

 

[JanikeyDoc]

Everyone continues to mention the relative they know/friend of a parent/parent/ect that makes way above the average. I'm not going to say that it doesn't happen, the point is that for every average there may be some way above it (as you all mention) but some way below.

While this is a lot of debt to be considering, it is doable if you plan responsibly and/or look into loan pay-backs/military/any other option.

From what I hear, specialties are becoming more open to DOs when they were not many years ago. So it does not mean that as a DO you will be stuck as a primary care doctor. In many schools the ratio of specialty residencies to primary care is increasing. My goal though is Peds, not the highest paid field but the one I like the most and I love kids.

 

[FlaMedic]

From what I hear, specialties are becoming more open to DOs when they were not many years ago. So it does not mean that as a DO you will be stuck as a primary care doctor. In many schools the ratio of specialty residencies to primary care is increasing. My goal though is Peds, not the highest paid field but the one I like the most and I love kids.

Bravo. Someone doing what they like, and not just for the money.

 

[beckhunter116]

From what I hear, specialties are becoming more open to DOs when they were not many years ago. So it does not mean that as a DO you will be stuck as a primary care doctor. In many schools the ratio of specialty residencies to primary care is increasing. My goal though is Peds, not the highest paid field but the one I like the most and I love kids.

I don't even know how you can take what I said and infer that I thought DO's aren't open to specialties. I never mentioned a specialty. Of course I think DO's can do whatever they want. I was addressing averages. Just b/c two doctors are the same specialty does not mean they will make the same income. One of my top choices for residency is FP, so I'm obviously not concerned about money!