Stock Market 2018

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BLADEMDA

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I'm adding to my positions tomorrow if the market goes down another 3-4% (intraday). This could be a buying opportunity or the beginning of a bear market. My hunch is that this market will end 2018 up for the year.

For those with any cash on the sidelines we may get a flush tomorrow of the weak hands along with a major spike in the VIX.
 
Wall Street’s biggest bull isn't fazed by the massive selling
  • Today's pullback is an opportunity to buy, says Wall Street bull and UBS Strategist Keith Parker.
  • 'I still see values opening up,' he says.
  • He anticipates as much as a 5-percent pullback before markets start to shake out.

Wall Street’s biggest bull isn't fazed by the massive selling
 
https://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2016/01/investing



Elroy Dimson, Paul Marsh and Mike Staunton of the London Business School are the acknowledged experts on global investment returns, having compiled data covering 22 countries over more than a century. As of February 2013, the longest period of negative real returns from US equities was 16 years. But it was 19 years for global equities (and 37 for world ex-US), 22 for Britain, 51 for Japan, 55 for Germany and 66 for France. Such periods are much longer than most small investors would have the patience to wait.
 
Global markets may be a sea of red, but experts say solid economies lie below
  • The current sell-off in markets wasn't triggered by a change in economic fundamentals, which remain solid globally, said major money managers including Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank and Fidelity.
  • The dip in markets presents opportunities for investors to buy into Asian stocks and bonds, they said.
Global markets may be a sea of red, but experts say solid economies lie below
 
It simply can't just keep going up setting new records. I wondered if we may be seeing something ominous when I read a report the other week that some of the larger discount brokerage firms were seeing INCREASES in stock purchases as of late. They attributed it to individual investors GETTING BACK IN to the markets after having been on the sidelines for the past 10 years.....:wideyed:

That said, any significant correction means a great buying opportunity. But, I'll probably stay more conservative in terms of asset allocation even in doing so.
 
While it would be a tremendous benefit to me personally if the market tanked in 2018, I make no prediction one way or the other nor have I made any change in anything.
 
While it would be a tremendous benefit to me personally if the market tanked in 2018, I make no prediction one way or the other nor have I made any change in anything.

The data suggests you have the most likely to be successful strategy. I agree that we just can't predict this stuff.
 
The data suggests you have the most likely to be successful strategy. I agree that we just can't predict this stuff.

Yes, as someone that has maybe 15-25 years worth of work left in me depending on the particulars I'm a net buyer of stocks going forward so if they are cheaper it is good for me. I also will personally have a large lump sum to invest in about 6-18 months from a house sale so it'd be nice if the market was much lower. But I'm also wise enough to know you shouldn't drastically alter your strategy over minor movements. Market tanked yesterday and is now down 1% in the last month? OMG!?!?!?!? Now if it drops another 20-40% in the next 6 months maybe I'll make some changes and up equity exposure a little. Until then, much ado about nothing.
 
Trump has been taking credit for the upside, is he going to accept blame for this correction?
@BLADEMDA trying to time the market, eh?

Just keep plugging. I am all about the downward trend, correction, beginning of the bear, etc. Just an opportunity to buy my low cost index funds on sale!

The Fifth Philosophy: How to Slay a Bear Market - The Physician Philosopher

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Fair enough, but if you Change your purchasing habits in any way based on market valuations then you are timing the market too
 
What I want to know is where is the guy who was telling everyone to put all their money into CMG? Down 40% since May!

My crystal ball is unfortunately hazy, so I just put five figures into VTSAX every month and forget it.
 
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Trump has been taking credit for the upside, is he going to accept blame for this correction?


Fair enough, but if you Change your purchasing habits in any way based on market valuations then you are timing the market too
I don't. Just keep plugging. Not gonna time the market. It's been shown time and time again (pun intended) people are terrible at timing the market.

Worst financial thing you can do is change course in a bear market (sell low; buy high). Well, that and get divorced.

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Trump has been taking credit for the upside, is he going to accept blame for this correction?


Fair enough, but if you Change your purchasing habits in any way based on market valuations then you are timing the market too

This was written in 2003. near the nadir of the dot com bubble bursting.

Mamas, Don’t Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Timers

Worth the read.


...when Mr. Market has been selling hard and long enough to seriously cheapen an asset, he’s buying, and when Mr. Market has a prolonged manic break, he’ll take the opposite side.

If that’s market timing, then I too must plead guilty. Sure, I believe in the efficient market hypothesis, but that doesn’t translate into ignoring the risks and returns of asset classes and failing to act accordingly. In the last days of the bubble, the expected equity risk premium was close to zero, and if you believe that TIPS represent a risk-free asset (some do, I don’t), the risk premium was decidedly negative. Today, the expected risk premium (ERP) is probably in the range of about 4%—the difference between the expected stock return and that of 10-year treasuries. Does the prudent investor own more stocks at an ERP of 4% than at an ERP of zero? You bet. How much more? That depends upon the mission; if it's a hedge fund, probably quite a lot. If it’s a conservatively managed tax-sensitive account, relatively little. In other words, if you were a 65/35 person in 1999, you might be a 70/30 person now. (Except that now you’re four years older, so maybe you’ll slip right back to 65/35.)



The rub is that "timing" is an inflammatory six-letter word—a veritable bomb in the staid world of portfolio management, and one that Mr. Bernstein threw with wonderful effect. Its spectrum stretches all the way from large and rapid changes in allocation based on things like macroeconomic parameters, relative strength, volume, sentiment, and overall gut feeling—certifiable behavior, in my opinion—to slow and relatively slight changes in allocations based on valuation and expected return. This latter strategy, involving very small and infrequent policy changes opposite large market moves, more often than not improves overall portfolio performance.



The latter concept is a bit difficult to grasp. Think of it this way: even the most devout efficient marketeers rebalance; trimming a portfolio back to policy is nothing more, and nothing less, than a bet on mean reversion. Taking the process one step further and adjusting the policy allocation itself opposite valuation changes is merely a way of amplifying a rebalancing move—"overbalancing," if you will. .....

...
Simply put, although the individual investor will likely come to grief manipulating the selection of individual securities, the judicious adjustment of policy allocations according to expected returns—increasing an allocation slightly when its expected return is very high, decreasing an allocation slightly when it is very low—will on average slightly enhance long-term results. This is simply an amplification of normal rebalancing.


Varying allocations—"timing," if you will—is similar to the consumption of alcohol. It can either enhance or degrade portfolio health; it all depends upon the circumstances and the quantity. When partaken in small, infrequent amounts from a concave vessel, its benefits are small but perceptible. When chugged indiscriminately, it is deadly.
 
I buy when stocks are on sale. If that is "timing" then I'm guilty. When the VIX spikes over 30-35 and the traders panic sell stocks that is a good time to buy a little more.
I'm always looking for a good deal on great stocks.

Since I'm older than most of you most of my "money" is already in the market so cost averaging in doesn't really work as well for me. I need to buy stocks on sale preferably a fire sale.
 
For that matter, where are all the cryptocurrency geniuses who were saying "buy the dip" when BTC fell from 19,000 to 16,000?

Now 6,000 and dropping.

I wish people would be honest and claim their losing speculative bets, as well as their winners.


You shoulda bought yesterday. After the SEC hearing today, there will be movement on the crypto exchanges.
 
The way I see it. I have several friends sitting on ton of cash since November 2016 election.

They missed out on the 22-24% gains since than.

Even if we have a “crash”. 2000-2002 market crash with 9/11, dot com bubble was nasdaq lost around 60%? Of its value. I believe the Dow Jones was down around 35%. It’s funny people never blame Clinton for the crash during that time period.

Stock market crashed 2007-March 2009 60%? Of its peak value.

So perspective says. Even if market crashes say 50% from peak. I’m still only down 25% having kept my money in since the presidential election of 2016. And I’m still way ahead even with the March 2009 low point.

Just don’t time the market.
 
Economy is still very strong. But stock market is ridiculously high/over valued. There's now more volume/volatility. There will likely be a correction or at least much slower gains this year. I think we'll be seeing up downs days more frequently in the next few weeks instead of constant greens
 
Economy is still very strong. But stock market is ridiculously high/over valued. There's now more volume/volatility. There will likely be a correction or at least much slower gains this year. I think we'll be seeing up downs days more frequently in the next few weeks instead of constant greens

Been a good ride... I do believe fundamentals are still there. Tug of war between bonds and stocks will continue. 2.85% treasuries?
Don't pull out and keep to the plan... does test your will though.
 
I'm adding to my positions tomorrow if the market goes down another 3-4% (intraday). This could be a buying opportunity or the beginning of a bear market. My hunch is that this market will end 2018 up for the year.

For those with any cash on the sidelines we may get a flush tomorrow of the weak hands along with a major spike in the VIX.

I've been thinking about adding to my positions as well. Any particular stocks you are considering?
 
I've been thinking about adding to my positions as well. Any particular stocks you are considering?
I'm an ETF guy mostly but I like a lot of stocks at these levels:

1. Apple
2. Intel
3. Citigroup
4. Facebook (under 170)
5. Amazon (5% lower from the close)
6. Energy sector (if we get inflation this sector should do well) like CVX, EPD, APA
7. MSFT

Mostly I"ll be adding to my Vanguard ETFs which are S and P 500, Russell 1000, Total Stock Market and Total World Stock Market.

I'm also adding to MTUM ETF as this is how I play the high risk/high growth area of the market.
 
I'm an ETF guy mostly but I like a lot of stocks at these levels:

1. Apple
2. Intel
3. Citigroup
4. Facebook (under 170)
5. Amazon (5% lower from the close)
6. Energy sector (if we get inflation this sector should do well) like CVX, EPD, APA

Mostly I"ll be adding to my Vanguard ETFs which are S and P 500, Russell 1000, Total Stock Market and Total World Stock Market.

I'm thinking Apple and Facebook but I want the stock price to stabilize before I open a new position. I'm not sure I want to get back on Intel. The trend is robustly negative and I just don't see it going over $50 any time soon. I would probably buy around $35 if fundamentals remain solid.
 
This Bull market isn't dead... yet. This is a normal market correction to the current Bull market. The market should be bought on weakness tomorrow and not sold. I'm looking for just another 2% lower to start adding substantially to my positions.
 
This Bull market isn't dead... yet. This is a normal market correction to the current Bull market. The market should be bought on weakness tomorrow and not sold. I'm looking for just another 2% lower to start adding substantially to my positions.

Correction was long overdue.
 
I'm thinking Apple and Facebook but I want the stock price to stabilize before I open a new position. I'm not sure I want to get back on Intel. The trend is robustly negative and I just don't see it going over $50 any time soon. I would probably buy around $35 if fundamentals remain solid.

Individual stock picking is very hard to do well. I find ETFs to be easier to buy and sell and there are so many ETFs out there covering any sector or group of stocks one can imagine.
 
I'm thinking Apple and Facebook but I want the stock price to stabilize before I open a new position. I'm not sure I want to get back on Intel. The trend is robustly negative and I just don't see it going over $50 any time soon. I would probably buy around $35 if fundamentals remain solid.

Fair Value for Intel is around $41-$42 per share so on further weakness I'd like to buy under $38.00 for the long term.
 
Individual stock picking is very hard to do well. I find ETFs to be easier to buy and sell and there are so many ETFs out there covering any sector or group of stocks one can imagine.

I got burned trading leveraged ETFs. I made little money and accepted too much risk. I was trading natural gas which is very volatile.
 
I got burned trading leveraged ETFs. I made little money and accepted too much risk. I was trading natural gas which is very volatile.

No leverage for me. No options either. I prefer just simple to understand ETFs with a few low Volatility ETFs in the mix. I like to know what is in every ETF I own and I own maybe 2-3 with a Beta over 1.3.

My investment style would be too boring for you. My idea of "high risk" is MTUM period. I also own a dozen Mutual Funds with active managers in my retirement fund.
 
1518130023_GScorrextimelag.jpg
 
No leverage for me. No options either. I prefer just simple to understand ETFs with a few low Volatility ETFs in the mix. I like to know what is in every ETF I own and I own maybe 2-3 with a Beta over 1.3.

My investment style would be too boring for you. My idea of "high risk" is MTUM period. I also own a dozen Mutual Funds with active managers in my retirement fund.

The only thing I find boring is not making money. I was a fan of highly volatile securities.

After a while I realized that I could make just as much money or more with much less risk so I've stopped trading those securities on a day to day basis.

I still monitor UGAZ/DGAZ (3x leveraged nat gas ETFs) but don't buy them regularly (they are meant to be traded in a day although you can always try to hold longer).

I accept more risk because I'm 32 years old and I have no debt other than my mortgage.
 
The only thing I find boring is not making money. I was a fan of highly volatile securities.

After a while I realized that I could make just as much money or more with much less risk so I've stopped trading those securities on a day to day basis.

I still monitor UGAZ/DGAZ (3x leveraged nat gas ETFs) but don't buy them regularly (they are meant to be traded in a day although you can always try to hold longer).

I accept more risk because I'm 32 years old and I have no debt other than my mortgage.

I'm not a trader but isn't the big money trading Option contracts? You like the high Beta names and they have crushed it in 2017 meaning your option contracts would make you one rich person.

Options in your favorite names like Amazon, Netflix, Google, Facebook, etc would have made you fortune. In particular your favorite stock, NVIDIA, has blown it out of the water.


NVIDIA-Metrics.jpg
 
I'm not a trader but isn't the big money trading Option contracts? You like the high Beta names and they have crushed it in 2017 meaning your option contracts would make you one rich person.

Options in your favorite names like Amazon, Netflix, Google, Facebook, etc would have made you fortune. In particular your favorite stock, NVIDIA, has blown it out of the water.


NVIDIA-Metrics.jpg

It is. I just haven't dabbled enough into it to do it with confidence.
 
What I want to know is where is the guy who was telling everyone to put all their money into CMG? Down 40% since May!

My crystal ball is unfortunately hazy, so I just put five figures into VTSAX every month and forget it.

I really like VTSAX. That said, I use VTI (which is free at Vanguard) so I can take advantage of volatility. I think Vanguard Total Stock Market is a fantastic fund/ETF.

I also own Vanguard Total World (VT) as part of my portfolio. That's an even more diversified ETF.

These days I use a computer program to analyze my portfolio so I can see Domestic vs International Vs Emerging vs Small Cap etc. My portfolio can be analyzed in so many ways. This keeps my allocation in check along with my domestic vs foreign equity allocation.
 
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You guys seem pretty active in your investment techniques, but you are saying a lot about Vanguard @BLADEMDA.

Good research to show the more people dabble with their investments and the more they check it the worse their investments perform.

I bought what you were saying about "timing the market" when you said you put a little money in when it is dipping. But when you are talking about buying individual stocks, leverage, and options... Now we are bordering on speculation which is rarely good for anyone.

This is all, of course, unless this is fun money you aren't planning on using for retirement and just what you enjoy doing on the side (like how I may waste money to play poker occasionally or go to the movies).

If making money isn't boring, why not just stick with the sure approach and keep plugging away into your diversified low cost vanguard index funds?

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You guys seem pretty active in your investment techniques, but you are saying a lot about Vanguard @BLADEMDA.

Good research to show the more people dabble with their investments and the more they check it the worse their investments perform.

I bought what you were saying about "timing the market" when you said you put a little money in when it is dipping. But when you are talking about buying individual stocks, leverage, and options... Now we are bordering on speculation which is rarely good for anyone.

This is all, of course, unless this is fun money you aren't planning on using for retirement and just what you enjoy doing on the side (like how I may waste money to play poker occasionally or go to the movies).

If making money isn't boring, why not just stick with the sure approach and keep plugging away into your diversified low cost vanguard index funds?

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Agreed. Not everyone, but MOST people would do better by never even looking at their investment portfolio. Just set it and forget it.
 
As Dow plunges, some investors get their buy lists ready
  • Analysts give their top picks on what to buy as the Dow drops below 1,000 points.
  • Financials, Mid-cycle industrials and chips are bargains.

As Dow plunges, some investors get their buy lists ready

I seriously question the intelligence of someone that feels there is a big material difference in a price that drops by 5 or 10%. If you assume a holding for 10 years, you are talking about a difference in expected returns of maybe 1% per year. Nobody is that precise in their accuracy so if you wouldn't buy a stock at $X, you shouldn't buy it at $X-10% IMHO.

Now if things drop 20-50%? Sure, that's a much bigger difference in expectation going forward. But 10%? Please.
 
spx-chart-1990-to-present.jpg


48% and 54%...

Bring it on! Every Bear market is quickly followed by a bull market.
 
the stock market tends to make quick moves down and long slow moves up.

Correct... been investing steadily since 2008... that’s about a 10 year bull after a rather fast sell off. I’m kinda hoping for a bear market to kick us around for a bit.
 
Correct... been investing steadily since 2008... that’s about a 10 year bull after a rather fast sell off. I’m kinda hoping for a bear market to kick us around for a bit.

i've got too long to go so would love a nice bear market to make my present and future purchases cheaper.
 
You guys seem pretty active in your investment techniques, but you are saying a lot about Vanguard @BLADEMDA.

Good research to show the more people dabble with their investments and the more they check it the worse their investments perform.

I bought what you were saying about "timing the market" when you said you put a little money in when it is dipping. But when you are talking about buying individual stocks, leverage, and options... Now we are bordering on speculation which is rarely good for anyone.

This is all, of course, unless this is fun money you aren't planning on using for retirement and just what you enjoy doing on the side (like how I may waste money to play poker occasionally or go to the movies).

If making money isn't boring, why not just stick with the sure approach and keep plugging away into your diversified low cost vanguard index funds?

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I have no leverage at all. No options. about 5% of my total portfolio is individual stocks. I like to dabble with some of the bigger names. It keeps me focused on the game.

Second, I don't have the luxury of cost averaging into the market any longer. So, I buy on pullbacks and bear markets only. I readjust my portfolio when the market drops 10% or more from it's high. This adjustment is typically in the 3% range at most vs 6-8% when the market drops 20%. For a 30% drop I'd increase my equity position significantly more as that as what I did during the 2008-2009 crash. At 35% below the high I was "all in" and even though I missed out on the bottom I ended up doing quite well. These days I think "all in" means 80/20 for me even if the market crashes 40%.
 
Merrill's Hartnett says buy the market when S&P 500 hits 2,500
  • BofAML chief investment strategist Michael Hartnett said 2,500 on the S&P 500 would be a buying opportunity, as would 3 percent on the 10-year yield.
  • Hartnett said the market could find a floor quickly but then retest it.
  • The sell-off will probably not be over until the dollar breaks out and the favorite trades are sold, like tech, emerging markets.
Merrill's Hartnett says buy the market when S&P 500 hits 2,500
 
I have no leverage at all. No options. about 5% of my total portfolio is individual stocks. I like to dabble with some of the bigger names. It keeps me focused on the game.

Second, I don't have the luxury of cost averaging into the market any longer. So, I buy on pullbacks and bear markets only. I readjust my portfolio when the market drops 10% or more from it's high. This adjustment is typically in the 3% range at most vs 6-8% when the market drops 20%. For a 30% drop I'd increase my equity position significantly more as that as what I did during the 2008-2009 crash. At 35% below the high I was "all in" and even though I missed out on the bottom I ended up doing quite well. These days I think "all in" means 80/20 for me even if the market crashes 40%.
So what percentage of your networth sat on the side line in cash this year while the market made >20%?

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