Stop harrassing the admissions office

[Duke_David]

For those of you who are frequent callers (qualitatively defined by the secretary in the admissions office recognizing your voice; quantitatively defined by more than 1 call of a general nature per month), have you ever stopped to think about how your behaviors come across as neurotic AND even worse, narcissistic? Trust me, these are not the characteristics you want in future doctors. Office staff may be polite on the phone, but you have no idea what they say or record after you hang up, especially following an unnecessary call. Consider this--try limiting your calls to questions that are really specific to you and eliminate the calls of a general nature (e.g., "is the class filled yet?" or "when will you send out.....?").

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[dogdayafternoon]

For those of you who are frequent callers (qualitatively defined by the secretary in the admissions office recognizing your voice; quantitatively defined by more than 1 call of a general nature per month), have you ever stopped to think about how your behaviors come across as neurotic AND even worse, narcissistic? Trust me, these are not the characteristics you want in future doctors. Office staff may be polite on the phone, but you have no idea what they say or record after you hang up, especially following an unnecessary call. Consider this--try limiting your calls to questions that are really specific to you and eliminate the calls of a general nature (e.g., "is the class filled yet?" or "when will you send out.....?").

You're not suppose to give your AMCAS ID or name if you're one of those repeat callers. At least, I don't if I have a question like that.

 

[Fluorine 9]

.

 

[dizzlesMD]

For those of you who are frequent callers (qualitatively defined by the secretary in the admissions office recognizing your voice; quantitatively defined by more than 1 call of a general nature per month), have you ever stopped to think about how your behaviors come across as neurotic AND even worse, narcissistic? Trust me, these are not the characteristics you want in future doctors. Office staff may be polite on the phone, but you have no idea what they say or record after you hang up, especially following an unnecessary call. Consider this--try limiting your calls to questions that are really specific to you and eliminate the calls of a general nature (e.g., "is the class filled yet?" or "when will you send out.....?").

Probably UNC .....correct?

 

[KidCapri]

For those of you who are frequent callers (qualitatively defined by the secretary in the admissions office recognizing your voice; quantitatively defined by more than 1 call of a general nature per month), have you ever stopped to think about how your behaviors come across as neurotic AND even worse, narcissistic? Trust me, these are not the characteristics you want in future doctors. Office staff may be polite on the phone, but you have no idea what they say or record after you hang up, especially following an unnecessary call. Consider this--try limiting your calls to questions that are really specific to you and eliminate the calls of a general nature (e.g., "is the class filled yet?" or "when will you send out.....?").

Not that I do this myself, but why are you concerned with this?

Do you work in an admissions office?

And if so, does this type of behavior really effect an applicants chance of being accepted?

 

[MedicineNutt]

definitely would like to know...^^

 

[Fluorine 9]

Probably UNC .....correct?

Nope, not UNC. I'm sure this happens at more than one school, so naming names isn't gonna help anyone. The take-home message here is just make sure you're on top of your application... 🙄

 

[Duke_David]

....
And if so, does this type of behavior really effect an applicants chance of being accepted?

I understand that there are reasons to call an admissions office if your questions pertain only to you and your situation. That should occur, what?, maybe once or uncommonly twice in an admissions cycle. But, think about it. If people in an office can detect neurosis and narcissism, do you think they ignore that? You think those answering the phones never tell their bosses about annoying and frequent callers? And, if you're a frequent caller with non-specific questions who believes your calls aren't annoying, then you really are narcissistic.

 

[UCdannyLA]

For those of you who are frequent callers (qualitatively defined by the secretary in the admissions office recognizing your voice; quantitatively defined by more than 1 call of a general nature per month), have you ever stopped to think about how your behaviors come across as neurotic AND even worse, narcissistic? Trust me, these are not the characteristics you want in future doctors. Office staff may be polite on the phone, but you have no idea what they say or record after you hang up, especially following an unnecessary call. Consider this--try limiting your calls to questions that are really specific to you and eliminate the calls of a general nature (e.g., "is the class filled yet?" or "when will you send out.....?").

get that stick out of your...

If what you describe is true then I would hate to go that medical school

Medical school admissions offices have telephones for a reason.

 

[MedicineNutt]

I understand that there are reasons to call an admissions office if your questions pertain only to you and your situation. That should occur, what?, maybe once or uncommonly twice in an admissions cycle. But, think about it. If people in an office can detect neurosis and narcissism, do you think they ignore that? You think those answering the phones never tell their bosses about annoying and frequent callers? And, if you're a frequent caller with non-specific questions who believes your calls aren't annoying, then you really are narcissistic.

if you are a member of the admission phone secretaries...you arent doing a good job by complaining over important phone calls...for those who desperately want a change in their life, of course you are going to get the frequent caller...everyone is different, and everyone wants immediate answers!!! who doesnt??? getting admitted into med school is the greatest accomplishment one can achieve...once they get into it, they'll stop callin you, and now you can rest assured that you wont be harrased by the same caller!!

take it easy duke...recognize that people want to accomplish goals!!! it's your job to inform them when you can..

 

[deuist]

Medical school admissions offices have telephones for a reason.

So does 911; but that doesn't mean that people should abuse it.

 

[Dookter]

I agree that people should not call schools over and over. However, I think schools should do a better job of keeping applicants informed. Often a simple admissions calendar would be nice. Knowing about the time the class is filled, etc., is nice. I am confident that a little more work on the part of the medical school in developing interactive webpages that are updated would really lessen the number of calls. Actually, I have emailed one school twice in the last few months. The first time it was for an update on the status of my application...after all, I paid over $700 of my own $$ to go to the interview, and I have heard NOTHING from the school. Of course, they could not tell me anything. So the second time [about a month later], I emailed asking for a general timeline of their admissions process [i.e. the class is usually filled in what month, when the waitlist starts to be established]. I was told they could tell me nothing. I am really starting to regret the over $800 I put into applying and interviewing at this school!!!!

 

[QofQuimica]

I propose that Duke David should post HIS phone number here, and then we can all call *him* whenever we have questions about the application process instead of calling the med schools. Just make sure that you don't tell him your AMCAS ID, and disguise your voice each time you call, and that way you can call him as many times with as many stupid questions as often as you want.

 

[gaganheim]

Ummm, to the OP, don't you think you should rethink your SN? I hope you have something to do with Duke University. Even if this is true, the slightly dislexic among us, myself included, might initially read it as David Duke. Not the best first impression.

 

[JohnyWalker]

For those of you who are frequent callers (qualitatively defined by the secretary in the admissions office recognizing your voice; quantitatively defined by more than 1 call of a general nature per month), have you ever stopped to think about how your behaviors come across as neurotic AND even worse, narcissistic? Trust me, these are not the characteristics you want in future doctors. Office staff may be polite on the phone, but you have no idea what they say or record after you hang up, especially following an unnecessary call. Consider this--try limiting your calls to questions that are really specific to you and eliminate the calls of a general nature (e.g., "is the class filled yet?" or "when will you send out.....?").

An example of where your reasoning is completely wrong is JMC (Jefferson Medical College.) After being waitlisted at JMC I was told by the admissions office to call two times a week to keep displaying my interest in attending their school. It appears that everytime you call they make a note of it on your file and they bring it up in the next ad-com meeting. Relax Duke-David and get that stick out. Besides, what do you care if we piss of the ad-com, doesn't that mean there is more space for you in the medical school of your choice?

 

[murphomatic]

Ummm, to the OP, don't you think you should rethink your SN? I hope you have something to do with Duke University. Even if this is true, the slightly dislexic among us, myself included, might initially read it as David Duke. Not the best first impression.

I didn't even notice that, ouch

 

[UCdannyLA]

So does 911; but that doesn't mean that people should abuse it.

I never knew people were only supposed to call medical school admissions during emergencies...

 

[nikibean]

OP, I think you have a valid point.
I can see the your side- the daily callers (extremes) could be viewed as harassing.
That's gotta be obnoxious. I know you guys do a ton for us as far as ensuring our applications are complete - I can think of two people in admissions offices off the top of my head who have done wonderful things for me. I'm sure you do field a lot of phone calls from students with valid questions, and I'm sure that it gets tiring having to be available for a multitude of people. I know that most of us truly appreciate your help and your time.
For the people who call, be polite! And yes, call when you *need* to, not just to chomp at the bit (ie if someone tells you to call, as in the waitlist situation, to see if you've got an interview slot available etc).
I think the OP is talking about people who just call *daily* to see if they're in or who are impolite on the phone. That would make me want to scream.

On the other hand, this process for us is a huge achievement, financial commitment, personal time commitment, and is generally a large piece of overarching stress in our lives. It's maddening.
The secrecy involved in this process is disconcerting and disorienting - it's like trying to get the Bush administration to speak. That's the root of the problem for both applicants and admissions office folk.

 

[MED_04]

For those of you who are frequent callers (qualitatively defined by the secretary in the admissions office recognizing your voice; quantitatively defined by more than 1 call of a general nature per month), have you ever stopped to think about how your behaviors come across as neurotic AND even worse, narcissistic? Trust me, these are not the characteristics you want in future doctors. Office staff may be polite on the phone, but you have no idea what they say or record after you hang up, especially following an unnecessary call. Consider this--try limiting your calls to questions that are really specific to you and eliminate the calls of a general nature (e.g., "is the class filled yet?" or "when will you send out.....?").

I recently finished my psychiatry rotation at a top 20, and during one of our clinical lectures they told us how physicians tend to be very OCPD and how in a way that's very good for your patients but pretty painful for yourself, so i completely disagree with your comment on "Trust me, these are not the characteristics you want in future doctors", in a way these are exactly the qualities they want in a physician

 

[JustBreathe]

I have a random question somewhat tangentially related to this thread. I've heard it said by many that to get off of Columbia's waitlist, it's a good idea to call often to express your interest in the school. What does one say during such a call? "Hi, it's Judy again, just wanted you to know that I'm still loving your school! Got any good news for me?" I'm kind of a shy person; I have no idea what to say to the random admissions person that may answer the phone. Any thoughts? 🙄

Btw.. my name isn't actually Judy 😳

 

[deuist]

I have a random question somewhat tangentially related to this thread. I've heard it said by many that to get off of Columbia's waitlist, it's a good idea to call often to express your interest in the school. What does one say during such a call? "Hi, it's Judy again, just wanted you to know that I'm still loving your school! Got any good news for me?" I'm kind of a shy person; I have no idea what to say to the random admissions person that may answer the phone. Any thoughts? 🙄

Btw.. my name isn't actually Judy 😳

I don't know about medical schools, but I did hear a story about a law school applicant who sent 2 post cards a week---the tourist kind---to her number 1 choice. She was eventually accepted.

 

[BooMed]

There's only one school that I've called multiple times per month and that is only because I found out they periodically lose the email correspondences I send them. This had started with them losing the email I sent to confirm my interview invite and as a result, they almost gave away my interview spot. When I sent a letter of intent post interview, they "didn't receive" that either. I had to re-send this 3 times before it got to the right place. (I know there's nothing wrong with my email system-- everyone else is receiving my emails!!) So, everytime I snail mail or email this school anything (and I now usually use both forms of correspondence now as backup), I call to make sure they received it and that whatever I sent them has been placed in my file. And yes, I'm terribly worried because I think the secretaries are starting to get annoyed with me, they ask for my AMCAS ID everytime, but how else am I to make sure that they're not misplacing pieces of my application?!? They've lost almost everything I've sent them!! (sorry!! just frustrated!)

Wow. This kind of thing would make me not want to go to that school.

 

[Duke_David]

Gaganheim, as soon as I created my user name, I realized that some folks might misread it. But, you can't change a username once it's registered. I've made a new name and won't use this one again, though you can rest assured that I have nothing to do with the dyslexic read of the user name.

Why do I care? Well, I hardly have a stick up my ass. I do not, and never have, worked in an admissions office. I do interview resident applicants and I am on the Faculty of a Medical School. Yes, I have an affiliation with Duke, but I'm not about to tell you if it is only past, current, or future. I've read SDN this year out of curiousity, as I have a relative who is applying to medical school. Reading the SDN on occasion actually has helped me, as it forced me to rethink about the perspectives and goals of interviewees and whether my interview strategy of trying to "recruit" everyone met their needs.

Now, some of you "get" what I've written. Why did I write it anyway?--JohnyWalker's suggestion that I need a spot is hilarious (my relative doesn't need a spot either, as he/she already has one). I'm simply responding to what I see as some repetitive behaviors that might keep some of you from getting a spot!

I'm not an apologist for poor service and the admissions office should do everything they can to keep you informed in a timely fashion--UTpremed is right on target with that. And, JohnyWalker if a school tells you to call and invites you to call as frequently as you want, then by all means go ahead. Med_04, a little bit of obsessive compulsive behavior IS a good thing in doctors, but that's different from the behaviors I was trying to describe and at some point OCD obviously becomes counterproductive. Deuist, I don't know if what you described is an "urban legend" or not, but you've got to acknowledge that it can't be a very good overall strategy and it certainly won't work if it is a common phenomonen.

Now, my apologies to the individual for extracting a string of messages, but it seems it is necessary for some of you who think I'm being an insensitive, prick with some conspiratorial motive. Do you really think this sort of call helps a person's chances of getting in, or is there any slight chance that it might be harmful?

from SDN:
"Who wants to call admissions and find out how filled the class is and when the next/last meeting is. I would call but I left my voice-masker at home"

and then the followup,

"So I called, and got some guy on the phone. I asked for xxxx and he was like what do you need. I told him, he put me on hold, then came back and said xxx was going to be out of the office. It was really awkward, I am not sure why. Someone else call and see what they say. I am interested to know how filled the class is and if there is a meeting this monday. anyone else share my curiosity?"

 

[kasha]

I think David is absolutely correct.

And for those of US who control our irrational impulses, what the hell are those individuals going to do when we are in a stressful situation as med students or doctors??? I mean come on guys, we can all admit that we when we make those calls we are actually responding to neurotic thoughts. most of the time we KNOW that we wont get anything out of the call.


"if you cant take the heat, get out of the application cycle...."

 

[Whoa It's Peter]

It really depends on the school you're talking about, whether or not repeated calls will work. I work with an attending physician that use to be on the admissions committee for MCP-Hahnamen (now Drexel Med) and she told me to call repeatedly - not twice a week or anything insane but definately every other week just to keep yourself on their radar. She also suggested befriending someone within the administrative role that would be able to push your papers in the right direction. I guess her message was to be persistent but not to the point of annoyance. You want the people in the office to know who you are, thus you have a more personal relationship with them so that they can't reject you because you are a faceless applicant (trust me, it's much easier for them to reject you because you're faceless). But at other schools I've called, it seems like they detest calls and give you such an attitude when you're just expressing interest or are curious about your status because there's been no news since August. Which schools come to mind? Temple, Mount Sinai, Med U of Ohio just to name a few. So I guess what I'm saying is to strike a balance between neurotic and hands-off. You want to come across as wanting to go there if given a chance, but at the same time you don't want to make enemies. Feel out the specific school and see if those people appreciate you calling. If they do, then call more. If not, then throw them the middle finger and stay away until they make contact.

BTW... that comment about JMC admissions wanting you to call twice a week to get off the list sounds kinda extreme... I know they appreciate updates, but twice a week!?!? I'd run out of things to say by the second week...

 

[BOBODR]

Gaganheim, as soon as I created my user name, I realized that some folks might misread it. But, you can't change a username once it's registered. I've made a new name and won't use this one again, though you can rest assured that I have nothing to do with the dyslexic read of the user name.

Why do I care? Well, I hardly have a stick up my ass. I do not, and never have, worked in an admissions office. I do interview resident applicants and I am on the Faculty of a Medical School. Yes, I have an affiliation with Duke, but I'm not about to tell you if it is only past, current, or future. I've read SDN this year out of curiousity, as I have a relative who is applying to medical school. Reading the SDN on occasion actually has helped me, as it forced me to rethink about the perspectives and goals of interviewees and whether my interview strategy of trying to "recruit" everyone met their needs.

Now, some of you "get" what I've written. Why did I write it anyway?--JohnyWalker's suggestion that I need a spot is hilarious (my relative doesn't need a spot either, as he/she already has one). I'm simply responding to what I see as some repetitive behaviors that might keep some of you from getting a spot!

I'm not an apologist for poor service and the admissions office should do everything they can to keep you informed in a timely fashion--UTpremed is right on target with that. And, JohnyWalker if a school tells you to call and invites you to call as frequently as you want, then by all means go ahead. Med_04, a little bit of obsessive compulsive behavior IS a good thing in doctors, but that's different from the behaviors I was trying to describe and at some point OCD obviously becomes counterproductive. Deuist, I don't know if what you described is an "urban legend" or not, but you've got to acknowledge that it can't be a very good overall strategy and it certainly won't work if it is a common phenomonen.

Now, my apologies to the individual for extracting a string of messages, but it seems it is necessary for some of you who think I'm being an insensitive, prick with some conspiratorial motive. Do you really think this sort of call helps a person's chances of getting in, or is there any slight chance that it might be harmful?

from SDN:
"Who wants to call admissions and find out how filled the class is and when the next/last meeting is. I would call but I left my voice-masker at home"

and then the followup,

"So I called, and got some guy on the phone. I asked for xxxx and he was like what do you need. I told him, he put me on hold, then came back and said xxx was going to be out of the office. It was really awkward, I am not sure why. Someone else call and see what they say. I am interested to know how filled the class is and if there is a meeting this monday. anyone else share my curiosity?"

Well I posted that and clearly you can't take a joke. That was my second time calling in 5 months since my interview. And yes at this point I would like to know if the class is filled considering its mid march and I have heard not a peep since I interviewed in November. Is it ok to leave applicants hanging 5 months post interview with no response? Reject me, accept me, waitlist me but do something. I went back and looked over your posts and many of them come across as harsh, even mean spirited. If I had to guess I would agree with Dizzles and say UNC otherwise you wouldnt have cared so much. I am sure UNC is getting a lot of calls because most people know the end is near there yet have no clue where they stand....

 

[MED_04]

Gaganheim, as soon as I created my user name, I realized that some folks might misread it. But, you can't change a username once it's registered. I've made a new name and won't use this one again, though you can rest assured that I have nothing to do with the dyslexic read of the user name.

Why do I care? Well, I hardly have a stick up my ass. I do not, and never have, worked in an admissions office. I do interview resident applicants and I am on the Faculty of a Medical School. Yes, I have an affiliation with Duke, but I'm not about to tell you if it is only past, current, or future. I've read SDN this year out of curiousity, as I have a relative who is applying to medical school. Reading the SDN on occasion actually has helped me, as it forced me to rethink about the perspectives and goals of interviewees and whether my interview strategy of trying to "recruit" everyone met their needs.

Now, some of you "get" what I've written. Why did I write it anyway?--JohnyWalker's suggestion that I need a spot is hilarious (my relative doesn't need a spot either, as he/she already has one). I'm simply responding to what I see as some repetitive behaviors that might keep some of you from getting a spot!

I'm not an apologist for poor service and the admissions office should do everything they can to keep you informed in a timely fashion--UTpremed is right on target with that. And, JohnyWalker if a school tells you to call and invites you to call as frequently as you want, then by all means go ahead. Med_04, a little bit of obsessive compulsive behavior IS a good thing in doctors, but that's different from the behaviors I was trying to describe and at some point OCD obviously becomes counterproductive. Deuist, I don't know if what you described is an "urban legend" or not, but you've got to acknowledge that it can't be a very good overall strategy and it certainly won't work if it is a common phenomonen.

Now, my apologies to the individual for extracting a string of messages, but it seems it is necessary for some of you who think I'm being an insensitive, prick with some conspiratorial motive. Do you really think this sort of call helps a person's chances of getting in, or is there any slight chance that it might be harmful?

from SDN:
"Who wants to call admissions and find out how filled the class is and when the next/last meeting is. I would call but I left my voice-masker at home"

and then the followup,

"So I called, and got some guy on the phone. I asked for xxxx and he was like what do you need. I told him, he put me on hold, then came back and said xxx was going to be out of the office. It was really awkward, I am not sure why. Someone else call and see what they say. I am interested to know how filled the class is and if there is a meeting this monday. anyone else share my curiosity?"

OCD is almost always counterproductive, what I was talking about was traits of OCPD (these two are very different disorders)

 

[deuist]

Deuist, I don't know if what you described is an "urban legend" or not, but you've got to acknowledge that it can't be a very good overall strategy and it certainly won't work if it is a common phenomonen.

Not an urban legend. I can't remember in which book I read the story, but I think that it was Law School Admissions Confidential. A member of the admissions committee said that the post cards were proof that the applicant really anted to go there.

 

[QofQuimica]

Now, my apologies to the individual for extracting a string of messages, but it seems it is necessary for some of you who think I'm being an insensitive, prick with some conspiratorial motive. Do you really think this sort of call helps a person's chances of getting in, or is there any slight chance that it might be harmful?

Ok, so I assumed at first you were some troll or crank poster too, and I went along with the joke. Hardy-har. Now that you're ostensibly a med school faculty member, I have to agree with whomever posted before that your responses to people often aren't the kindest, and it's understandable that people mistake you for a troll. If your goal is to help pre-meds, is it really necessary to insult them and mock them at the same time? For example, to tell them that you bet they had problems in math? Or to tell someone that you're sorry, but they asked a really dumb question? We were all adolescents once, and we've all asked dumb questions.

P.S. I'm glad that you are not affiliated with David Duke.

 

[etown]

Ok, so I assumed at first you were some troll or crank poster too, and I went along with the joke. Hardy-har. Now that you're ostensibly a med school faculty member, I have to agree with whomever posted before that your responses to people often aren't the kindest, and it's understandable that people mistake you for a troll. If your goal is to help pre-meds, is it really necessary to insult them and mock them at the same time? For example, to tell them that you bet they had problems in math? Or to tell someone that you're sorry, but they asked a really dumb question? We were all adolescents once, and we've all asked dumb questions.

P.S. I'm glad that you are not affiliated with David Duke.

Seriously. I called the one (out of 12) schools I wasn't completed at a few months back and the woman told me they didn't have ANY of my recommendations. I asked how this could be, since all of the other schools had received ALL of my recs. She said "I don't know, I don't work at the post office. Send them again" in the snootiest tone. Was that really necessary? People like that is WHY we have to call again in hopes of talking to someone moderately helpful. Oh yeah, and it turns out this woman didn't even check my file to see that I did have some recs there.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

what a f*cking liar. It is so obvious that this douche-bag is a bitter secretary for some med school ad comm. If your so unhappy, get a new job a** hole.

 

[beetlerum]

But his basic point is right on. A small percentage of applicants are rude and pestering to the admissions office staff. This is not right. It is virtually never their fault that you haven't heard. You are just taking out your frustration on them. The fact that you have been waiting for months doesn't give you the right to be rude. And frankly, get some maturity about the waiting. Is it ideal for the admissions office to leave you hanging for months? No. Is it the end of the world? No. Some applicants seem to have a real problem with waiting, but get used to it, because waiting for important decisions is a part of life.

what a f*cking liar. It is so obvious that this douche-bag is a bitter secretary for some med school ad comm. If your so unhappy, get a new job a** hole.