Story: Trinity Health sues anesthesiology group

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How would they even know??

Most jobs require you to get references from previous employers.

It doesn’t even matter. When 20% of the written contract is dedicated to describing and defining all the ways you can’t leave, it seems like a pretty big red flag to me.

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All AMC are owned by private equity.

no they are most definitely not. Private equity is not an AMC. It's a fund that invests private investor money into private corporations with the hope of pumping up profits and selling for a higher multiple than they paid.
 
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no they are most definitely not. Private equity is not an AMC. It's a fund that invests private investor money into private corporations with the hope of pumping up profits and selling for a higher multiple than they paid.

Which AMCs are not back by private equity?
 
It’s complicated situation. Seems like the hospital system is strong arming the anesthesia company/private equity whoever runs it.

Hypothetically hospital system could be telling blue cross they will take say 20k in hospital charges for X surgery (say blue cross wanted hospital to take 18k) and “save blue cross blue shield money” by making anesthesia “cheaper” say forcing anesthesia to accept hypothetical $60/unit in network. Knowing full well anesthesia company wants $100/unit in network. They now the anesthesia company would be receiving hypothetically $3000 less.

So blue cross saves $1000 total cost. Hospital keeps it same revenue. And anesthesia take a hit.

It’s all a freaking game.

And if hospital system has to shut down ORs. Than hospital loses.

A game of chicken. I love it. If they can’t find enough bodies and this is different than Charlotte cause it seems like anesthesia company can just drop services anytime. Hospital system ceo is in deep world of trouble if they have to shut down surgery. Big time trouble.

I love it.
 
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It’s complicated situation. Seems like the hospital system is strong arming the anesthesia company/private equity whoever runs it.

Hypothetically hospital system could be telling blue cross they will take say 20k in hospital charges for X surgery (say blue cross wanted hospital to take 18k) and “save blue cross blue shield money” by making anesthesia “cheaper” say forcing anesthesia to accept hypothetical $60/unit in network. Knowing full well anesthesia company wants $100/unit in network. They now the anesthesia company would be receiving hypothetically $3000 less.

So blue cross saves $1000 total cost. Hospital keeps it same revenue. And anesthesia take a hit.

It’s all a freaking game.

And if hospital system has to shut down ORs. Than hospital loses.

A game of chicken. I love it. If they can’t find enough bodies and this is different than Charlotte cause it seems like anesthesia company can just drop services anytime. Hospital system ceo is in deep world of trouble if they have to shut down surgery. Big time trouble.

I love it.

I don’t doubt your scenario, but that sounds wicked illegal. If not, it would confirm my suspicion that hospitals hold way too much power in our current healthcare system.
 
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I don’t doubt your scenario, but that sounds wicked illegal. If not, it would confirm my suspicion that hospitals hold way too much power in our current healthcare system.
That suspcion was confirmed long ago for me. In fact, it was fact for me from the get-go, not a suspicion.
 
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Don't the Medicare Conditions of Participation have rules regarding anesthesia coverage? Could be more $$$ than just OR revenues. Hospital could be @#$%-ed. Seems like the hospital and Anesthesia group could collaborate and press BCBS about the rates, come to an agreement before going nuclear.
 
Seems like the hospital and Anesthesia group could collaborate and press BCBS about the rates, come to an agreement before going nuclear.

Unless the anesthesiologists are hospital employees, what you are describing is collusion and expressly illegal by most anti-trust laws.
 
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Don't the Medicare Conditions of Participation have rules regarding anesthesia coverage? Could be more $$$ than just OR revenues. Hospital could be @#$%-ed. Seems like the hospital and Anesthesia group could collaborate and press BCBS about the rates, come to an agreement before going nuclear.

The anesthesia group went out of network with BC/BS, they did not stop providing services in any way. It is solely a billing issue for BC/BS patients and would impact nothing else from the hospital point of view. The hospital is just mad they are losing revenue because patients are choosing to have surgery elsewhere.
 
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The anesthesia group went out of network with BC/BS, they did not stop providing services in any way. It is solely a billing issue for BC/BS patients and would impact nothing else from the hospital point of view. The hospital is just mad they are losing revenue because patients are choosing to have surgery elsewhere.

So the group is charging out of network fee for bc/bs patients? So they are losing money too if the bc/bs patient don’t come?

I don’t see any problem with this. It’s just a lose lose situation. And if you get surgeons in the mix. Lose lose lose situation.
 
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So the group is charging out of network fee for bc/bs patients? So they are losing money too if the bc/bs patient don’t come?

I don’t see any problem with this. It’s just a lose lose situation. And if you get surgeons in the mix. Lose lose lose situation.

out of network just means you don't have a contract with the insurance company. Normally when you are in network you have a set reimbursement for various CPT codes and timed units. When you are out of network, you don't. So when a patient has surgery, instead of directing billing their insurance you are sending the patient themselves a bill. And you send a bill for your full charge amount, not the normal insurance discounted amount. And then the patient is supposed to submit it themselves to their insurer for reimbursement or just pay cash. Insurance companies will often then just send the patient a check to cover it and then the patients are supposed to forward the money on to the doc which they often don't do so then you have to try to scramble to collect.

It's painful all around.
 
out of network just means you don't have a contract with the insurance company. Normally when you are in network you have a set reimbursement for various CPT codes and timed units. When you are out of network, you don't. So when a patient has surgery, instead of directing billing their insurance you are sending the patient themselves a bill. And you send a bill for your full charge amount, not the normal insurance discounted amount. And then the patient is supposed to submit it themselves to their insurer for reimbursement or just pay cash. Insurance companies will often then just send the patient a check to cover it and then the patients are supposed to forward the money on to the doc which they often don't do so then you have to try to scramble to collect.

It's painful all around.

Unfortunately, OON copays, deductibles, and OOP max is usually way more than in-network (like double for many plans). So a patient that has met their deductible/co-insurance, etc is expecting a free surgery and then gets stuck with the full anesthesia bill outta pocket.
 
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out of network just means you don't have a contract with the insurance company. Normally when you are in network you have a set reimbursement for various CPT codes and timed units. When you are out of network, you don't. So when a patient has surgery, instead of directing billing their insurance you are sending the patient themselves a bill. And you send a bill for your full charge amount, not the normal insurance discounted amount. And then the patient is supposed to submit it themselves to their insurer for reimbursement or just pay cash. Insurance companies will often then just send the patient a check to cover it and then the patients are supposed to forward the money on to the doc which they often don't do so then you have to try to scramble to collect.

It's painful all around.

Isn’t this the tactic some insurance company will have you join?

So the hospital is alleging, it is losing business because patients won’t come.
1. Patient wants the insurance company to pay, so they don’t have to.
2. Patient thinks that out of network rate will not be enough to pay the whole anesthesia bill.

I think there’s a lot of assumptions at play here. I also think what @SaltyDog said also should be considered too.

On top of that, if the surgeon has a choice to operate at another place, they may consider that too. If i only want to operate, I certainly don’t want to ever hearing my patients social/economical/insurance complaints.

As an anesthesiologist, I certainly can understand I want to get paid for what I do. As a consumer, I also understand, I don’t really want to deal with the logistics of coordinating every single aspect of my care.

I thank you and everyone who have contributed to my understanding of all these ****ty issues....
 
Unfortunately, OON copays, deductibles, and OOP max is usually way more than in-network (like double for many plans). So a patient that has met their deductible/co-insurance, etc is expecting a free surgery and then gets stuck with the full anesthesia bill outta pocket.

I agree, but those patients can still submit their bill to the insurance company and most insurance companies will still pay most of the bill. It just creates a bigger headache for the patient who now has to play all kinds of phone tag and submitting things.
 
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It's a little bit more than a headache for patients. Patients often have a separate and higher deductible, copay, and out of pocket max for out of network.
 
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A4 sold to SeroMed a VC firm started by a bunch of former Sheridan people
A4 has become a large group in the Michigan area
I'm assuming this is all being driven by the VC firm - from my group's PP perspective it's certainly popcorn eating time watching it all play out

A4 also has the anesthesia contract at the once-called Oakwood Hospital in Dearborn
That hospital is now part of Beamont whose main two hospitals (Royal Oak and Troy) are with Mednax
The Mednax contract is up this December - and it's unclear what is going to happen there
There could be a big game of musical chairs in SE Michigan
 
For those outside of MI - just an fyi
BCBSM pays less than $60 (I think)
and noncompetes are not enforceable in Michigan
(esp for individual docs going to nearby hospitals)

Will be interesting to see if Scope Anestheisa (a-la NC) swoops in and the hospitals survive on locus and defectors or if BCBSM yields a confidential concession - they probably don't want the other Michigan groups getting more $

They paint the antitrust as the group, when the hospitals and mayors exert the anticompetitive behavior

But ultimately they are playing with fire as the hospital lobbies are super powerful as exemplified by Michigan's required auto insurance - a lifetime of pay for injuries just recently changed and by BCBSM it is a huge market share.

All the hospital and BCBSM have to do is show a patient safety threat and increased costs to businesses and insurance companies....let alone what looks like a Teflon noncompete (same hospitals) and they will face an uphill battle in court....unless they can find a pro-doctor judge.
 
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I guess when AAs handlers discovered that its better to walk away with something than to lose the whole shop they capitulated.
 
Just wait til we have government run healthcare telling us how much we will make... no negotiations necessary

you mean like Medicare/Medicaid already do?
 
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Just wait til we have government run healthcare telling us how much we will make... no negotiations necessary

Just imagine the type of tactics they could employ if you decide not to work at those prices. It’ll make this little tiff in Michigan look quaint by comparison.
 
Just imagine the type of tactics they could employ if you decide not to work at those prices. It’ll make this little tiff in Michigan look quaint by comparison.

They already doing that no? With all the regulations, if you don’t do somethings you don’t get payment or less payment.
 
A4 sold to SeroMed a VC firm started by a bunch of former Sheridan people
A4 has become a large group in the Michigan area
I'm assuming this is all being driven by the VC firm - from my group's PP perspective it's certainly popcorn eating time watching it all play out

A4 also has the anesthesia contract at the once-called Oakwood Hospital in Dearborn
That hospital is now part of Beamont whose main two hospitals (Royal Oak and Troy) are with Mednax
The Mednax contract is up this December - and it's unclear what is going to happen there
There could be a big game of musical chairs in SE Michigan

I’ve thought about returning to SE MI after training, it’s unfortunate there seems to be very few private practice groups left.
 
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