Stratifying DO Schools

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Futuredoc23 23

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Anyone able to classify DO schools into ranks or Tiers? Like top, middle, and bottom. Or maybe just better and worse. Or maybe just top 5 and ones you don't want to attend.

Are any DO schools considered to be on the same playing field as MD schools? Or is this true: any MD > all DO
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Good osteopathic medical schools are the ones that have strong research, high NIH funding, a teaching hospital, good rotation sites, their own residency programs in competitive fields, high match rates and good match list, happy students, etc. Strong research is something that most osteopathic medical schools don't offer, so that's one thing that you want to look out for when looking for a good school (assuming that money is not an issue for you). Also, if an osteopathic medical school has their own residencies in fields like surgery, ortho, EM, etc then the distinction between MD and DO becomes someone blurred. At the end of the day, it's a matter of having more doors and opportunities open for students. Schools like MSUCOM, Rowan, and TCOM, etc do a very good job at this.

And then there are the bad ones that you should try to avoid at all costs. I'm not going to name them since I don't want to offend anyone, but if you're on SDN, it won't take long to figure out who they are.
 
Mandragora said:
Good osteopathic medical schools are the ones that have strong research, high NIH funding, a teaching hospital, good rotation sites, their own residency programs in competitive fields, high match rates and good match list, happy students, etc
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Lol no. There are only 2 that fit this description. Yes these are likely the best if the DO schools but both are state schools and OP is very unlikely to get into them.

There is no good way to stratify DO schools OP, a good rough (very rough) rule of thumb is:

State schools/PCOM> the older schools and schools like RVU> most everyone else> LUCOM, NYIT-AR, Brand new schools (new schools have potential to move up but shouldn’t be anyone’s first choice until they have graduated a class)
 
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@AnatomyGrey12

Based on that, how would you rank the following 7 programs?

DMU, LECOM, Nova, Touro-CA, KYCOM, ACOM, BCOM

I’m roughly thinking:

DMU>(Nova, LECOM, Touro-CA, KYCOM)>ACOM>BCOM

Does that seem correct? If so, how would you rank that middle group of 20-30 year old programs?
 
I would really rank them based off of how well they fit what you're looking for. If you're generally curious as to how positively the "average" person (who somehow happens to have opinions about all Osteopathic schools) would weigh your education solely based on the UGME you attended... I think your ranking is reasonable. Each school may have some weight in their respective geographic areas as well.
 
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As Goro would say "This is a fool's errand".

Depends on what the applicant is searching for in their prospective school.
 
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How's Nova's affiliation with broward health?
Broward has ortho residency and the pd is a graduate of nsucom. Are they affiliated or no relationship?
If that, nsu will seem to show strength comparable to md schools?(research, nih funding, reaching hospital, residencies, international outreach.)
Just that the rural commitment in 4th yr, an old campus (one building) and the fact that there will be an md class competing for resources seem sketchy to me.
I would appreciate any comments on this
 
RinShanKaiHo said:
How's Nova's affiliation with broward health?
Broward has ortho residency and the pd is a graduate of nsucom. Are they affiliated or no relationship?
If that, nsu will seem to show strength comparable to md schools?(research, nih funding, reaching hospital, residencies, international outreach.)
Just that the rural commitment in 4th yr, an old campus (one building) and the fact that there will be an md class competing for resources seem sketchy to me.
I would appreciate any comments on this
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It’s just an affiliation. No they are not comparable to MD schools just because they have this affiliation. Very solid though as far as DO schools go.

There is a big difference between an affiliation and a true home program like the ones found at MD schools. The only schools that really have that kind of relationship with it’s residencies are OSU (own teaching hospital) and MSU.
 
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Regardless of what schools you think you can or can't get into, you should always try to go to a school that 1) offers most resources and opportunities and 2) makes you feel at home. That includes state schools. Yes, you will have a better shot as an in state applicant, but that doesn't make it "very unlikely to get into them" if you're out of state. State schools do admit more out of state applicants than people think; it's just that most of admitted out of state applicants end up not matriculating due to expensive out of state tuition, wanting to stay closer to family, etc. I personally got accepted to two state schools as an out of state applicant, and will be attending one of them.

So to OP and anyone reading this, as long as you have good stats + good ECs, and as long as money is not an issue, don't refrain from applying to state schools.
 
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Where you went to DO school matter very little for non locla ACGME PDs
 
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AnatomyGrey12 said:
It’s just an affiliation. No they are not comparable to MD schools just because they have this affiliation. Very solid house as far as DO schools go.

There is a big difference between an affiliation and a true home program like the ones found at MD schools. The only schools that really have that kind of relationship with it’s residencies are OSU (own teaching hospital) and MSU.
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Does Rowan's Cooper MD program have teaching hospital more open to the DO students?
 
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Mandragora said:
but that doesn't make it "very unlikely to get into them" if you're out of state.
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Yeah it really does though. I am also an OOS matriculant to one of the state schools.

Mandragora said:
Regardless of what schools you think you can or can't get into, you should always try to go to a school that 1) offers most resources and opportunities and 2) makes you feel at home. That includes state schools
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Absolutely

Mandragora said:
State schools do admit more out of state applicants than people think
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Not really, we only interviewed 200 people for 116 matriculants. Of those mateiculants only 9 are classified as OOS, and of those 9 only 4 of us are from OOS and didn’t attend UG in the state. So only 4 “true” OOS people in our class. ="Mandragora, post: 19423195, member: 886830"]So to OP and anyone reading this, as long as you have good stats + good ECs, and as long as money is not an issue, don't refrain from applying to state schools.[/QUOTE]

agree 100%

DrfluffyMD said:
Where you went to DO school matter very little for non locla ACGME PDs
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Agree 100%, but there are schools that have more resources available which can help DO students make themselves more competitive. Doesn’t matter for PDs but can make life easier in making yourself look good for those PDs.

RinShanKaiHo said:
Does Rowan's Cooper MD program have teaching hospital more open to the DO students?
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Not really no. They have a separate hospital for DO students.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Yeah it really does though. I am also an OOS matriculant to one of the state schools.
Not really, we only interviewed 200 people for 116 matriculants. Of those mateiculants only 9 are classified as OOS, and of those 9 only 4 of us are from OOS and didn’t attend UG in the state. So only 4 “true” OOS people in our class.
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Like I said, the number of OOS matriculated vs. accepted are two different numbers. How many OOS students did your school accept?
 
Mandragora said:
Like I said, the number of OOS matriculated vs. accepted are two different numbers. How many OOS students did your school accept?
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It wasn’t many more than the 9 that matriculated. I want to say admissions told me 15. Again, they only interviewed 200 for 116 seats including all the in state people.

I completely agree that people should still apply if they want to go there. The only state school I would say isn’t worth the app is Ohio, and maybe MSU (unless you can stomach the tuition).
 
TheWolfOfMainStreet said:
@AnatomyGrey12

Based on that, how would you rank the following 7 programs?

DMU, LECOM, Nova, Touro-CA, KYCOM, ACOM, BCOM

I’m roughly thinking:

DMU>(Nova, LECOM, Touro-CA, KYCOM)>ACOM>BCOM

Does that seem correct? If so, how would you rank that middle group of 20-30 year old programs?
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These are always fun, loll.

Lets see... Nova>DMU>LECOM>Touro-CA>KYCOM>ACOM>BCOM. (With time, I'd probably move up ACOM above KYCOM but too early for that now).
 
MADD!!! said:
These are always fun, loll.

Lets see... Nova>DMU>LECOM>Touro-CA>KYCOM>ACOM>BCOM. (With time, I'd probably move up ACOM above KYCOM but too early for that now).
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About what I would put. I would actually put KYCOM last however.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
... There is a big difference between an affiliation and a true home program like the ones found at MD schools. The only schools that really have that kind of relationship with it’s residencies are OSU (own teaching hospital) and MSU.
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Not to get too off topic but I had an interview at the OSU medical center last week... man, what an absolutely fantastic facility/set of residencies for OSU students to have access to. And of course I am a big fan of the network we have at MSU.
 
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SpartanWolverine said:
Not to get too off topic but I had an interview at the OSU medical center last week... man, what an absolutely fantastic facility/set of residencies for OSU students to have access to. And of course I am a big fan of the network we have at MSU.
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It really is pretty great. The hospital is essentially resident and student run, and reports from upper classmen is that it really helped them stand out on aways. OSU and MSU definitely provide some opportunities that are very hard to come by in the DO world.

TheWolfOfMainStreet said:
Interesting. Why?
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Extremely rural and reportedly has rotations that are only rivaled by LMU in their terribleness. The kind of school that makes doing something outside of PC even more difficult (even more so than just going DO in general). If that’s what you’re into then it doesn’t matter.
 
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Go to the cheapest DO school in a place you want to live. There is no tiering.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Extremely rural and reportedly has rotations that are only rivaled by LMU in their terribleness. The kind of school that makes doing something outside of PC even more difficult (even more so than just going DO in general). If that’s what you’re into then it doesn’t matter.
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Wow. I knew it was rural but didn't know the rotations were so bad. Thanks for the heads up!
 
Futuredoc23 23 said:
Anyone able to classify DO schools into ranks or Tiers? Like top, middle, and bottom. Or maybe just better and worse. Or maybe just top 5 and ones you don't want to attend.

Are any DO schools considered to be on the same playing field as MD schools? Or is this true: any MD > all DO
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Gawd, ask ten people, you're going to get 11 different answers.

BTW, the business of tiers as applied to MD schools is only important to pre-meds and MD school Deans.
 
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Is LMU doing ANYTHING to improve it's rotations? They seem to have about... 5/16 that look decent.
 
SpartanWolverine said:
Not to get too off topic but I had an interview at the OSU medical center last week... man, what an absolutely fantastic facility/set of residencies for OSU students to have access to. And of course I am a big fan of the network we have at MSU.
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What speciality are you applying for? Btw, your iClicker is getting a lot of use :)
 
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Lawper said:
And sadly to program directors at super competitive academic residencies for certain specialties.
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I'd expand it even more than that. School name and reputation do play a role when applying for residencies in any specialty.
 
Goro said:
Gawd, ask ten people, you're going to get 11 different answers.

BTW, the business of tiers as applied to MD schools is only important to pre-meds and MD school Deans.
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The reason for asking was mostly because if I'm going to pay big bank, I expect a solid curriculum and rotation sites. I'm more interested in that than prestige.
 
Goro said:
Gawd, ask ten people, you're going to get 11 different answers.

BTW, the business of tiers as applied to MD schools is only important to pre-meds and MD school Deans.
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This is false. Residency directors in competitive specialties care too. Look at the match lists of any top tier school vs a low tier school.
 
nimbus said:
This is false. Residency directors in competitive specialties care too. Look at the match lists of any top tier school vs a low tier school.
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Med schools are feeders as to residencies and UG school are as to med schools. And we're talking about DO schools, which are far more nebulous to pin down as to "top tier" vs "bottom tier". For admissions purposes I can break MD schools down into, say, Harvard/Stanford class vs Keck class vs Albany/Drexel class, but I can't wrap around the idea of CCOM class vs LMU vs BCOM class yet.
 
Goro said:
Med schools are feeders as to residencies and UG school are as to med schools. And we're talking about DO schools, which are far more nebulous to pin down as to "top tier" vs "bottom tier". For admissions purposes I can break MD schools down into, say, Harvard/Stanford class vs Keck class vs Albany/Drexel class, but I can't wrap around the idea of CCOM class vs LMU vs BCOM class yet.
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I was responding to this statement which is false. It’s important to a heck of a lot of other parties. Or am I misreading it?

“BTW, the business of tiers as applied to MD schools is only important to pre-meds and MD school Deans.”
 
nimbus said:
I was responding to this statement which is false. It’s important to a heck of a lot of other parties. Or am I misreading it?

“BTW, the business of tiers as applied to MD schools is only important to pre-meds and MD school Deans.”
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Oh, I see what you mean. Again, it's because their grads are a known product. I do not deny that there is inbreeding going on. To quote one of our attending colleagues, the inbreeding at Brown is greater than that in an Alabama trailer park.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
It really is pretty great. The hospital is essentially resident and student run, and reports from upper classmen is that it really helped them stand out on aways. OSU and MSU definitely provide some opportunities that are very hard to come by in the DO world.
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If not for MSU (and being in Tornado Alley =P), Oklahoma State would be my second pick if I had a choice.
 
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KCU is overkill in my opinion in terms of curriculum. Also, NSU is in Florida, and Florida is opening up more and more residencies and is a very DO friendly state.
 
MADD!!! said:
KCU is overkill in my opinion in terms of curriculum. Also, NSU is in Florida, and Florida is opening up more and more residencies and is a very DO friendly state.
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How is KCU curriculum overkill? Are there any downsides to this?
 
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MADD!!! said:
KCU is overkill in my opinion in terms of curriculum. Also, NSU is in Florida, and Florida is opening up more and more residencies and is a very DO friendly state.
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But doesn't Nova take more credits in their first year than any other school? Also, their whole rotation situation with required 4th year rural rotations that often interfere with audition time kinda sucks. Also, South FL is way oversaturated with all of the med students + carrib med students that rotate in a few hospitals. With Nova's MD program opening, it's only going to get worst the next few years-- once Nova opens up their teaching hospital, this problem will be fixed and Nova will become a super attractive option. At this point, though, there's a lot to consider about Nova beyond just the fact that it's a strong program and near the beach haha. Although Nova's definitely a good school & I guess it's a personal decision really between those 2, just trying to share my 0.02$ as someone super familiar with Nova with several friends that attend.

KCU's curriculum is the same as RVU, TCOM....all of these schools have proven to be super strong using this curriculum. It might be "hard", but I think if you had to choose between DO schools that would give you the best chance to end up matching in a competitive speciality, choosing a school with this curriculum would be a good idea.
 
YoloSwaggins#JarlBallin said:
How is KCU curriculum overkill? Are there any downsides to this?
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fldoctorgirl said:
But doesn't Nova take more credits in their first year than any other school? Also, their whole rotation situation with required 4th year rural rotations that often interfere with audition time kinda sucks. Also, South FL is way oversaturated with all of the med students + carrib med students that rotate in a few hospitals. With Nova's MD program opening, it's only going to get worst the next few years-- once Nova opens up their teaching hospital, this problem will be fixed and Nova will become a super attractive option. At this point, though, there's a lot to consider about Nova beyond just the fact that it's a strong program and near the beach haha. Although Nova's definitely a good school & I guess it's a personal decision really between those 2, just trying to share my 0.02$ as someone super familiar with Nova with several friends that attend.

KCU's curriculum is the same as RVU, TCOM....all of these schools have proven to be super strong using this curriculum. It might be "hard", but I think if you had to choose between DO schools that would give you the best chance to end up matching in a competitive speciality, choosing a school with this curriculum would be a good idea.
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Even though the curriculum is similar, it still seems to me that KCU is harder. From what I've read, the problems with KCU are that not only do they burden you with having to read the entire Robbins book (which I'm not sure if RVU and TCOM do but I'm guessing no), but also I've read they don't cut short on other aspects like clinical experience either. Like if a school is going to overwhelm you in one way, they need to take out or lessen something else to balance. KCU doesn't, and that classical "what are you going to do when you have 8 assignments in 2 days and you can't catch it all in time etc" is a reality at KCU and yea, it causes students to crack.

I'm not complaining about their curriculum setup, but rather their specific implementation of it. Having to read an entire textbook? Asking questions from the text that's NOT covered in any lectures? Not cutting slack in terms of clinicals or other expectations while expecting more from you in everything else? Not down. KCU students work considerably harder than many MD programs too... I don't need med school to be any harder than it already is.

And Nova is great. If anything, Nova opening up an md school will benefit DO students right now (before the first year MD students start). More resources available, more residencies opening, more recognition, etc. Nova may end up opening residencies for Md students before hand that these do students match into.

Again, this is SDN, I'm one guy and this is my opinion. Ask more ppl, hopefully ppl from both KCU and nova can chime in here. I can only speak for PCOM, and we get the best of both worlds.
 
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Having to read an entire textbook? Asking questions from the text that's NOT covered in any lectures?
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The horror.
 
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MADD!!! said:
Even though the curriculum is similar, it still seems to me that KCU is harder. From what I've read, the problems with KCU are that not only do they burden you with having to read the entire Robbins book (which I'm not sure if RVU and TCOM do but I'm guessing no), but also I've read they don't cut short on other aspects like clinical experience either. Like if a school is going to overwhelm you in one way, they need to take out or lessen something else to balance. KCU doesn't, and that classical "what are you going to do when you have 8 assignments in 2 days and you can't catch it all in time etc" is a reality at KCU and yea, it causes students to crack.

I'm not complaining about their curriculum setup, but rather their specific implementation of it. Having to read an entire textbook? Asking questions from the text that's NOT covered in any lectures? Not cutting slack in terms of clinicals or other expectations while expecting more from you in everything else? Not down. KCU students work considerably harder than many and programs too... I don't need med school to be any harder than it already is.

And Nova is great. If anything, Nova opening up an md school will benefit DO students right now (before the first year MD students start). More resources available, more residencies opening, more recognition, etc. Nova may end up opening residencies for Md students before hand that these do students match into.

Again, this is SDN, I'm one guy and this is my opinion. Ask more ppl, hopefully ppl from both KCU and nova can chime in here. I can only speak for PCOM, and we get the best of both worlds.
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As someone who is most likely going to attend KCU, this is absolutely terrifying.
 
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