Straw-Man fallacy and SDN

[Patassa]

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Okay, we're done here.

If you think that the second you become pre-med all of a sudden all of the issues you have faced as a Black person in America somehow disappear then you and I will never see eye to eye.

We get it - you're a southern good old boy. There is nothing more to be said here. You're not going to change your mind about this issue and neither am I.

I asked a question, you didn't answer.
You asked a question, I answered.
You then project your own stereotypes onto me.
Thanks for the thoughtful and engaging exchange of ideas.

 

[ChemEngMD]

I asked a question, you didn't answer.
You asked a question, I answered.
You then project your own stereotypes onto me.
Thanks for the thoughtful and engaging exchange of ideas.

I answered your question. Black pre-meds face the exact same issues as other Black people in this country. Do you really need a list of the issues that Black people face? Are you that oblivious to the issues people of different ethnicities face in our society?

C'mon bro.

 

[Patassa]

I answered your question. Black pre-meds face the exact same issues as other Black people in this country. Do you really need a list of the issues that Black people face? Are you that oblivious to the issues people of different ethnicities face in our society?

C'mon bro.

Black pre-meds have been educated for 4 years in a higher institution of learning and will come out with a 4 year degree. This alone takes black pre-meds out of the typical environment and struggles of many other black people in this country. You're the one oversimplifying this, not me.

C'mon bro.

 

[buttercup12]

Black pre-meds been educated for 4 years in a higher institution of learning and will come out with a 4 year degree. This alone takes black pre-meds out of the typical environment and struggles of many other black people in this country. You're the one oversimplifying this, not me.

C'mon bro.

You're kidding right?

 

[Aerus]

More stereotypes.

There was nothing. NOTHING stereotypical about my post. If you haven't taken Sociology or similar courses in the social sciences, it's going to be very hard for you to understand. I've spent way too much time (more than I'd like during Finals week) explaining these concepts in this thread. If we aren't going to agree, then we aren't going to agree.

Nm, I see we're having a battle over semantics.

It's not a battle over semantics. As I said so many times, there are a lot of people in this thread (and SDN) who believe that race shouldn't be considered. See all those posts about "SES should be considered, not race"? That's PROOF there is a huge stigma that historical institutional power imbalances don't matter.

 

[Patassa]

You're kidding right?

No.
The black engineers that I graduated with who are now making over 100k/year in the oil business are not facing the same struggles nor in the same environment as the blacks living across from me in their dilapidated house built in the 1860s that's barely an adequate shelter, much less a home.

Are you arguing that an educated black person with good paying job opportunities falls into the "typical" range for blacks across the country?

 

[Aerus]

Black pre-meds been educated for 4 years in a higher institution of learning and will come out with a 4 year degree. This alone takes black pre-meds out of the typical environment and struggles of many other black people in this country. You're the one oversimplifying this, not me.

C'mon bro.

OH MY GOD. NO. Race is something you carry with you in this society NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. Everywhere, from the moment they go to school in whatever rich school their parents might have paid for to the day they walk into their med school classroom, they face discrimination because of our society's hegemony. Do you really think society views a black person as equal to a white person just because he's a med student?

 

[Aerus]

No.
The black engineers that I graduated with who are now making over 100k/year in the oil business are not facing the same struggles nor in the same environment as the blacks living across from me in their dilapidated house built in the 1860s that's barely an adequate shelter, much less a home.

Are you arguing that an educated black person with good paying job opportunities falls into the "typical" range for blacks across the country?

Please don't confuse class struggles with racial struggles. They both intersect but also act separately.

The poor white man faces class struggles while the rich black man doesn't. But the rich black man faces racial struggles that the poor white man doesn't.

 

[Patassa]

OH MY GOD. NO. Race is something you carry with you in this society NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. Everywhere, from the moment they go to school in whatever rich school their parents might have paid for to the day they walk into their med school classroom, they face discrimination because of our society's hegemony. Do you really think society views a black person as equal to a white person just because he's a med student?

I said "typical environment and struggles", I didn't say "cease to be black".
Why don't you turn your emotions down a few notches, adding drama to an internet forum does not foster the exchange of ideas.

 

[Aerus]

I said "typical environment and struggles", I didn't say "cease to be black".
Why don't you turn your emotions down a few notches, adding drama to an internet forum does not foster the exchange of ideas.

First, I like to be melodramatic in my posts. Please understand I don't have a lot of emotional investment in another person's opinion. Talking about these issues is something I don't find to be a complete waste of time. 😉

Second, wrong again. Every black person faces the same environmental struggles in terms of race. BUT, not every black person faces the same class/economic struggle. I understand that you are talking about poverty. But racial discrimination does not go away just because you live in a nicer house with parents who pay for your education.

See that rich successful black man or woman? They would be A LOT more successful today if race didn't matter. Race has a HUGE (a lot of the times unseen by many people) effect on one's success in that society.

 

[Patassa]

Everywhere, from the moment they go to school in whatever rich school their parents might have paid for to the day they walk into their med school classroom, they face discrimination because of our society's hegemony. Do you really think society views a black person as equal to a white person just because he's a med student?

Society is made up of individuals who hold various opinions and think differently under different circumstances. Society is not a singular conscience. Society contains many blacks, Latinos, Asians, etc. So you're either saying that blacks are counted among those who view blacks unequally, or you're really saying Society = white people in which case you're basically saying all whites are racists.

 

[Aerus]

Society is made up of individuals who hold various opinions and think differently under different circumstances. Society is not a singular conscience. Society contains many blacks, Latinos, Asians, etc. So you're either saying that blacks are counted among those who view blacks unequally, or you're really saying Society = white people in which case you're basically saying all whites are racist.

Sure, I'll give a brief Sociology lesson for you, since you sound genuinely curious. 😛

A society is made by those who hold the most power in it. In American Society (as well as many others in our world), White people hold the most power in terms of race. There are many sides to society. There is the racial side, the class side, the gender side, etc.

I'm talking about the racial side. White people created this society in which they have the most power. Racism is bigotry against those with less power by those with the most power. If a White person is NOT bigoted, then they are NOT racist.

Individual opinions exist, but have you ever thought why so many individuals hold the same opinion? It's not a coincidence. Society SHAPES those opinions. Some people might be more resistant to the dominant ideology in society, but that doesn't mean this isn't a HUGE issue that we must address. If everyone truly did hold their own opinion, independent of society, why is there so much statistical evidence that racism still exists today?

 

[Patassa]

Sure, I'll give a brief Sociology lesson for you, since you sound genuinely curious. 😛

A society is made by those who hold the most power in it. In American Society (as well as many others in our world), White people hold the most power in terms of race. There are many sides to society. There is the racial side, the class side, the gender side, etc.

I'm talking about the racial side. White people created this society in which they have the most power. Racism is bigotry against those with less power by those with the most power. If a White person is NOT bigoted, then they are NOT racist.

Maybe so, but how is this relevant today? There is a black supreme court justice, a black president, and a black head of the department of justice.
I could continue but these are among the most powerful positions in our society.

Individual opinions exist, but have you ever thought why so many individuals hold the same opinion? It's not a coincidence. Society SHAPES those opinions. Some people might be more resistant to the dominant ideology in society, but that doesn't mean this isn't a HUGE issue that we must address. If everyone truly did hold their own opinion, independent of society, why is there so much statistical evidence that racism still exists today?

If you're talking about institutionalized racism, I don't know all the answers to that, I'd need to see the specific examples to think about why they might be occurring.

 

[buttercup12]

Society is made up of individuals who hold various opinions and think differently under different circumstances. Society is not a singular conscience. Society contains many blacks, Latinos, Asians, etc. So you're either saying that blacks are counted among those who view blacks unequally, or you're really saying Society = white people in which case you're basically saying all whites are privileged.

FTFY.

 

[Aerus]

Maybe so, but how is this relevant today? There is a black supreme court justice, a black president, and a black head of the department of justice.
I could continue but these are among the most powerful positions in our society.


If you're talking about institutionalized racism, I don't know all the answers to that, I'd need to see the specific examples to think about why they might be occurring.

It's relevant because it still exists, unfortunately. We have a COUPLE black supreme court justices, ONE black president. How many black head of department of justices have we had so far? African Americans have been around in the United States for hundreds of years. If everyone's opinions was truly their own and random, then we would see JUST as many black presidents, supreme court justices, head of department of justices as we would see White.

I'm not saying that racism is just as bad as it was back then. But it STILL exists. Don't you agree that racism should NOT exist at all? 100% gone? I'd say that it's like...20% gone (many might disagree with me). It's still there.

Here are some statistics you can look up:

-Why are White people and Asian people so overrepresented in higher education? Surely we can't believe that White people and Asian people are genetically smarter or more hardworking because we know that's not true.

-Why are Black and Hispanic people much more likely to be arrested for crimes even though the crime levels between White people and Black people and Hispanic people don't differ significantly in poorer communities?

-Why is the distribution in terms of wealth heavily skewed over towards White people?

The worst part (the violent part) of racism has been calmed down in the past hundred years. That's GOOD. It's PROGRESS. But we have a lot of work to do before it's gone. How will we know when racism has MOSTLY been eradicated? When the above statistics are evenly distributed. That's when we know that society has less of an impact on success and it's mostly just random occurrences and opinions rather than society acting collectively.

 

[NontradCA]

I said "typical environment and struggles", I didn't say "cease to be black".
Why don't you turn your emotions down a few notches, adding drama to an internet forum does not foster the exchange of ideas.

Your argument and perspective is fundamentally flawed. I think you think that the plight of the Black American is economical. C'mon son.

For some actual perspective why not just ask the black premeds or med students what they think? Oh wait...

Seriously man, you're clueless. And it doesn't seem you even want to find reasons or discuss topics, but just spout off bull**** from that boxed in mind of yours.

 

[Patassa]

Your argument and perspective is fundamentally flawed. I think you think that the plight of the Black American is economical. C'mon son.

For some actual perspective why not just ask the black premeds or med students what they think? Oh wait...

Seriously man, you're clueless. And it doesn't seem you even want to find reasons or discuss topics, but just spout off bullcrap from that boxed in mind of yours.

If you have an argument to put forth, put it forth.
Your personal attacks are meaningless.

 

[NontradCA]

If you have an argument to put forth, put it forth.
Your personal attacks are meaningless.

Ok kid. There's no "argument" here. Have fun.

 

[Patassa]

It's relevant because it still exists, unfortunately. We have a COUPLE black supreme court justices, ONE black president. How many black head of department of justices have we had so far? African Americans have been around in the United States for hundreds of years. If everyone's opinions was truly their own and random, then we would see JUST as many black presidents, supreme court justices, head of department of justices as we would see White.

I'm not saying that racism is just as bad as it was back then. But it STILL exists. Don't you agree that racism should NOT exist at all? 100% gone? I'd say that it's like...20% gone (many might disagree with me). It's still there.

The worst part (the violent part) of racism has been calmed down in the past hundred years. That's GOOD. It's PROGRESS. But we have a lot of work to do before it's gone. How will we know when racism has MOSTLY been eradicated? When the above statistics are evenly distributed. That's when we know that society has less of an impact on success and it's mostly just random occurrences and opinions rather than society acting collectively.

But if you're saying that whites built a society in which they would hold power, but Blacks are now in power, how can you argue that your version/definition of society still exists?

I think institutionalized racism should not exist. I agree with you.

I think discrimination and bigotry (popular level racism) are impossible to eradicate though. Every group can be and is guilty of this at times.

 

[buttercup12]

But if you're saying that whites built a society in which they would hold power, but Blacks are now in power, how can you argue that your version/definition of society still exists?

I think institutionalized racism should not exist. I agree with you.

I think discrimination and bigotry (popular level racism) are impossible to eradicate though. Every group can be and is guilty of this at times.

Where did he say "blacks are now in power" ...Must have missed that one.

 

[Aerus]

But if you're saying that whites built a society in which they would hold power, but Blacks are now in power, how can you argue that your version/definition of society still exists?

I think institutionalized racism should not exist. I agree with you.

I think discrimination and bigotry (popular level racism) are impossible to eradicate though. Every group can be and is guilty of this at times.

Black people are definitely not in power. We still live in a primarily Anglo-Saxon dominated society. The fact that a black person has been able to attain powerful positions such as President and Supreme Court Justice is awesome. But that's a false illusion. There is a difference between "there should be just as many Black Presidents and Supreme Court Justices" and "Hey, one black person got to president. Black people are equal and society isn't racist anymore!" The president does not control society. The Justices do not control society. Society is built on historical, institutionalized ideology. Barack Obama cannot tell everyone to think in another way. He is powerless in that sense.

White people HAVE this privilege and power because they don't face racial discrimination in society. This allows them to more easily attain powerful positions. How long did we have to wait for a black president? Hundreds of years. The Civil Rights movements happened in the mid 20th century. How many decades of White presidents did we go through before Barack Obama won the election? How long must we wait for a White President? Most likely a couple more years.

Do you see the difference? Just because one happened does not mean this power imbalance is gone. It still exists. One person's achievements does not disqualify the struggles that minorities must face each day.

 

[ChemEngMD]

But if you're saying that whites built a society in which they would hold power, but Blacks are now in power, how can you argue that your version/definition of society still exists?

I think institutionalized racism should not exist. I agree with you.

I think discrimination and bigotry (popular level racism) are impossible to eradicate though. Every group can be and is guilty of this at times.

A few Black people in high positions in government =/= the system no longer being skewed toward benefiting White people almost exclusively.

 

[Aerus]

I think discrimination and bigotry (popular level racism) are impossible to eradicate though. Every group can be and is guilty of this at times.

Agreed, but that's RANDOM bigotry. Bigotry based on historical ideology (AKA RACISM!) can be eradicated. I have to be content with random bigotry, since we know that we can't control for the randomness of people's opinions anyways.

But when so many people think in one way that it shapes and alters one's success in society versus another (a white person), then that's something we CAN change and must take action to eliminate.

 

[Patassa]

Black people are definitely not in power. We still live in a primarily Anglo-Saxon dominated society. The fact that a black person has been able to attain powerful positions such as President and Supreme Court Justice is awesome. But that's a false illusion. There is a difference between "there should be just as many Black Presidents and Supreme Court Justices" and "Hey, one black person got to president. Black people are equal and society isn't racist anymore!" The president does not control society. The Justices do not control society. Society is built on historical, institutionalized ideology. Barack Obama cannot tell everyone to think in another way. He is powerless in that sense.

Of course the president doesn't control society, but the President was elected by that anglo-saxon dominated society to a position of power. Elections reflect the mindset and desires of the people in that society. At least half the country wanted a black president. Twice.
How is that an illusion?

Do you see the difference? Just because one happened does not mean this power imbalance is gone. It still exists. One person's achievements does not disqualify the struggles that minorities must face each day.

I do agree that one person's achievements don't alleviate the struggles that minorities face.

I don't understand what you mean by equal numbers of black and white presidents/justices, though. Do you mean on a linear timeline beginning with the start of our country? Beginning post civil war? Beginning post civil rights? Beginning post Obama? Flesh that one out for me.

 

[Patassa]

A few Black people in high positions in government =/= the system no longer being skewed toward benefiting White people almost exclusively.

So would you say your position in the context of this thread is that white have "privilege" and minorities have "URM". But URM still doesn't do enough to account for the lack of privilege that you believe all white people have?

 

[Womb Raider]

It's like two ants. A huge soldier ant and a small worker ant. The worker ant can punch the huge soldier ant. Is it wrong for the small weaker ant to punch the huge soldier ant? OF COURSE. DISCRIMINATION AND BIGOTRY IS ALWAYS WRONG.

But is it the same as the huge worker ant punching the small worker ant? NO. The big soldier ant won't be harmed but the small worker ant will be. They are different punches. BOTH are wrong but they are DIFFERENT. We MUST label them differently if we are to address this issue in the future.

There was nothing. NOTHING stereotypical about my post. If you haven't taken Sociology or similar courses in the social sciences, it's going to be very hard for you to understand. I've spent way too much time (more than I'd like during Finals week) explaining these concepts in this thread. If we aren't going to agree, then we aren't going to agree.

The white man is not always the "big soldier ant."

White people... don't face racial discrimination in society.

False.

OH MY GOD. NO. Race is something you carry with you in this society NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO.

ORLY?

 

[Patassa]

Agreed, but that's RANDOM bigotry. Bigotry based on historical ideology (AKA RACISM!) can be eradicated. I have to be content with random bigotry, since we know that we can't control for the randomness of people's opinions anyways.

What would you call bigotry that results from institutionalized racism? In other words, black bigotry/racism against whites?

But when so many people think in one way that it shapes and alters one's success in society versus another (a white person), then that's something we CAN change and must take action to eliminate.

I agree with you, I'm just not sure if we'd agree on the course of action. That's fine though, we don't need to. I appreciate the discussion so far.

 

[Patassa]

A few Black people in high positions in government =/= the system no longer being skewed toward benefiting White people almost exclusively.

What does it mean?

Were those people not benefited by "the system"?

 

[ChemEngMD]

So would you say your position in the context of this thread is that white have "privilege" and minorities have "URM". But URM still doesn't do enough to account for the lack of privilege that you believe all white people have?

URM has nothing to do with privilege or reparations or anything of that nature. It's about trying to provide more physicians to underserved communities.

 

[metview]

It's relevant because it still exists, unfortunately. We have a COUPLE black supreme court justices, ONE black president. How many black head of department of justices have we had so far? African Americans have been around in the United States for hundreds of years. If everyone's opinions was truly their own and random, then we would see JUST as many black presidents, supreme court justices, head of department of justices as we would see White.

I'm not saying that racism is just as bad as it was back then. But it STILL exists. Don't you agree that racism should NOT exist at all? 100% gone? I'd say that it's like...20% gone (many might disagree with me). It's still there.

Here are some statistics you can look up:

-Why are White people and Asian people so overrepresented in higher education? Surely we can't believe that White people and Asian people are genetically smarter or more hardworking because we know that's not true.

-Why are Black and Hispanic people much more likely to be arrested for crimes even though the crime levels between White people and Black people and Hispanic people don't differ significantly in poorer communities?

-Why is the distribution in terms of wealth heavily skewed over towards White people?

The worst part (the violent part) of racism has been calmed down in the past hundred years. That's GOOD. It's PROGRESS. But we have a lot of work to do before it's gone. How will we know when racism has MOSTLY been eradicated? When the above statistics are evenly distributed. That's when we know that society has less of an impact on success and it's mostly just random occurrences and opinions rather than society acting collectively.

Why are African Americans so overrepresented in professional sports (NBA, NFL)? Surely we can't believe that African Americans are genetically stronger or more hardworking than Caucasians or Asians because we know that's not true.

It is because of cultural differences. Asian culture emphasizes education more so than Caucasian and African American culture, while African American culture emphasizes participation in sports more so than Asian cultures. Don't act like everyone is the same; there is something called culture. Look it up.

When are we going to get an Asian president? If we don't get one in the next 20 years, then society is prejudice against Asians. /sarcasm

I am all for AA in academic environments so as it helps people who come from disadvantaged backgrounds. What I am against, however, is when URMs from middle-class families gain an advantage.

 

[Aerus]

The white man is not always the "big soldier ant."

First, in terms of race, White people are ALWAYS the big soldier ant. Until something that alters society so much that White people no longer are the power holders of race in our society, it will remain that way.

You are talking about economic power and priviledge, which is separate from race. Race often interacts with class but it is a separate entity. I definitely would agree with you if you were talking about solely based on money and wealth.

There is nothing in society that largely discriminates White people based solely on race. You will have individual bigotry or cautiousness, but that isn't based on historical implications.

Again, I don't think you will understand a single thing I'm saying without proper background. I can more than happy to answer any questions you may have but that's just that. We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Patassa]

URM has nothing to do with privilege or reparations or anything of that nature. It's about trying to provide more physicians to underserved communities.

I'm aware of that and I agree with the spirit of program.
But, is it not a benefit to some people?

 

[Aerus]

Why are African Americans so overrepresented in professional sports (NBA, NFL)? Surely we can't believe that African Americans are genetically stronger or more hardworking than Caucasians or Asians because we know that's not true.

It is because of cultural differences. Asian culture emphasizes education more so than Caucasian and African American culture, while African American culture emphasizes participation in sports more so than Asian cultures. Don't act like everyone is the same; there is something called culture. Look it up.

When are we going to get an Asian president? If we don't get one in the next 20 years, then society is prejudice against Asians. /sarcasm

Culture exists, and that partly explains why Asians, despite not having more power than Whites, are vastly more overrepresented in academics. The other explanation is the model minority myth.

In terms of the NFL, I am not knowledgeable on the participants in that to discuss it. Perhaps someone else can chime in. Partly, there is a racial stereotype with that though.

 

[ChemEngMD]

I'm aware of that and I agree with the spirit of program.
But, is it not a benefit to some people?

It's intended to be a benefit to the communities it is trying to create more physicians for.

 

[NontradCA]

 

[Aerus]

Of course the president doesn't control society, but the President was elected by that anglo-saxon dominated society to a position of power. Elections reflect the mindset and desires of the people in that society. At least half the country wanted a black president. Twice.
How is that an illusion?







I do agree that one person's achievements don't alleviate the struggles that minorities face.

I don't understand what you mean by equal numbers of black and white presidents/justices, though. Do you mean on a linear timeline beginning with the start of our country? Beginning post civil war? Beginning post civil rights? Beginning post Obama? Flesh that one out for me.

Yes, Obama became President. How often are we going to see that again in today's time? He has privileges that interact with his lack of racial privilege, such as class privileges and gender privileges. That's a whole different beast of society. He has male power and lacks racial power.

When I say equal numbers, you can interpret that to whatever timeline you wish. It's all the same. Even after blacks had every opportunity in the eyes of the law to run for president, it took decades before we had a Black president.

 

[Aerus]

What would you call bigotry that results from institutionalized racism? In other words, black bigotry/racism against whites?



I agree with you, I'm just not sure if we'd agree on the course of action. That's fine though, we don't need to. I appreciate the discussion so far.

Black bigotry against Whites is just bigotry. It's "random" since there is no power that Black people hold against White people, so their opinions are largely individual. Many might arise from historical grudges, but these grudges and opinions will not affect the White man's success at all. Do you think that some Black community's fears of White oppression will affect a random White person's chances of becoming Secretary of State or Justice? No. But the racial power structures will impede a random Black person's chances greatly. We can see that statistically.

 

[Patassa]

Yes, Obama became President. How often are we going to see that again in today's time?

If you're asking me, I have no idea. It could be as soon as the next one for all I know. Herman Cain was doing exceptionally well on the Republican ticket before some of his past caught up to him.
But if you're asking the question as if it's rhetorical, why is this your position?

When I say equal numbers, you can interpret that to whatever timeline you wish. It's all the same. Even after blacks had every opportunity in the eyes of the law to run for president, it took decades before we had a Black president.

I'm asking specifically in the context of the "how do we know when it's over"? You've made references to "equal numbers" of presidents, and what timeline you pick would certainly mean very different things.

 

[Patassa]

Black bigotry against Whites is just bigotry. It's "random" since there is no power that Black people hold against White people, so their opinions are largely individual. Many might arise from historical grudges, but these grudges and opinions will not affect the White man's success at all. Do you think that some Black community's fears of White oppression will affect a random White person's chances of becoming Secretary of State or Justice? No. But the racial power structures will impede a random Black person's chances greatly. We can see that statistically.

Ok, I see your point.

 

[Patassa]

It's intended to be a benefit to the communities it is trying to create more physicians for.

But it doesn't benefit the applicants?

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

Why are African Americans so overrepresented in professional sports (NBA, NFL)? Surely we can't believe that African Americans are genetically stronger or more hardworking than Caucasians or Asians because we know that's not true.

It is because of cultural differences. Asian culture emphasizes education more so than Caucasian and African American culture, while African American culture emphasizes participation in sports more so than Asian cultures. Don't act like everyone is the same; there is something called culture. Look it up..

Ok, let's not ignore the obvious....there are very few 7'0" tall Asian dudes.

 

[Womb Raider]

First, in terms of race, White people are ALWAYS the big soldier ant. Until something that alters society so much that White people no longer are the power holders of race in our society, it will remain that way.

You are talking about economic power and priviledge, which is separate from race. Race often interacts with class but it is a separate entity. I definitely would agree with you if you were talking about solely based on money and wealth.

There is nothing in society that largely discriminates White people based solely on race. You will have individual bigotry or cautiousness, but that isn't based on historical implications.

Again, I don't think you will understand a single thing I'm saying without proper background. I can more than happy to answer any questions you may have but that's just that. We will have to agree to disagree.

So really what this boils down to for you is the majority = power holders, right? Do you want a strictly proportional division of power based on demographics to make things "fair?" Why should a minority have power over a majority, or equal weight given to their opinions?

Black bigotry against Whites is just bigotry. It's "random" since there is no power that Black people hold against White people, so their opinions are largely individual. Many might arise from historical grudges, but these grudges and opinions will not affect the White man's success at all.

What do you mean there is no power that Blacks can hold over Whites? You are generalizing this issue to the largest possible degree, while I'm focusing on more practical, individual instances that can affect the individual tremendously. There are PLENTY of minorities that hold a position of power (Surgeons, professors, judges, law enforcement, etc etc etc) that are in a position to abuse their power and favor specific individuals over others based on their skin color.

 

[Augstartcodon]

People are just upset that an URM has a better chance of getting into an MD school over them. Race matters in the admissions game and people need to get over it.

This X10000000

 

[Patassa]

So really what this boils down to for you is the majority = power holders, right? Do you want a strictly proportional division of power based on demographics to make things "fair?" Why should a minority have power over a majority, or equal weight given to their opinions?
.

Yeah this concerns me, it seems like the position being put forth only ends when some new group rises to power. Then the cycle will continue.

 

[Augstartcodon]

Sorry grammer police, I typed that on a cell phone….. And once again you found a way to take attention away from the original issue

Weren't you saying something about an Asain doctor that could "barely speak English?" You literally just spelled grammar incorrectly. Language is an arbitrary invention of human imagination, but the science that your doc learned in med school transcends language barriers fyi.

 

[buttercup12]

Ok, I see your point.
But that definition only works if Blacks aren't in positions of authority/power.

Well, they're not so the definition stands.

But it doesn't benefit the applicants?

Yes, but that's just a by-product. The intent is still to benefit the communities that are in dire need of physicians.

 

[buttercup12]

The white man is not always the "big soldier ant."



False.



ORLY?

Obviously, MJ's race is still an issue seeing as how you're referencing it...

 

[Patassa]

Yes, but that's just a by-product. The intent is still to benefit the communities that are in dire need of physicians.

Nevertheless, "the system" is benefiting others besides white people. Minority students and their communities are benefiting from a program put into place by "the system".

 

[buttercup12]

Nevertheless, "the system" is benefiting others besides white people. Minority students and their communities are benefiting from a program put into place by "the system".

But the thing is everyone benefits, including white people, when the health of those minority communities goes up.

 

[Patassa]

But the thing is everyone benefits, including white people, when the health of those minority communities goes up.

I think you're implying that white people put in place a system to help minorities because ultimately it helps them?
Is that what you're saying?